Re: Teen dies after highway jump from SC ambulance

[Guest guest]

This same thing happened in Grandbury, TX, about 10 years ago. Teenage patient,

drunk, exited the ambulance, landed on his head, and died on the spot.

GG

Aaarrggghhh ! ! ! Teen Dies

Always envisaged this happening

Think I have avoided a couple such scenario in my career...

Teen Dies After Highway Jump From S.C. Ambulance

Monday , March 01, 2010

GREENVILLE, S.C. - A teenager has died after jumping out of a moving

ambulance on an interstate highway in South Carolina.

Multiple media outlets reported the 16-year-old boy died shortly after

the leap near Greenville while be was being driven to a psychiatric

hospital in Columbia

Coroner Mike Ellis says the teen was restrained on a gurney in the back

of a Greenville Hospital Systems ambulance when he loosened his

restraints, moved past an emergency technician, opened the door and

jumped.

Emergency workers treated the teen before taking him back to the

hospital in Greenville, where he was pronounced dead minutes later.

An autopsy was planned Monday.

[Guest guest]

Has there been any serious medico-legal discussion into this phenomenon?

Do we have a legal obligation to transport someone who does not require our

medical attention, simply because the cops don't want to do it themselves?

Don't the cops have both the authority and the obligation to restrain such

persons and take them to medical attention?

What is our liability when this happens, and it is obviously beyond our control?

Lots and lots of questions.

Rob

[Guest guest]

Rob,

The AG issued a ruling in December of last year that said that LE does not have

to get the patient medically cleared prior to taking them to a psych facility.

The opinion is posted on the TAA website @ www.txamb.com if you want to read it.

Dave

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

Re: Teen dies after highway jump from SC ambulance

Has there been any serious medico-legal discussion into this phenomenon?

Do we have a legal obligation to transport someone who does not require our

medical attention, simply because the cops don't want to do it themselves?

Don't the cops have both the authority and the obligation to restrain such

persons and take them to medical attention?

What is our liability when this happens, and it is obviously beyond our control?

Lots and lots of questions.

Rob

[Guest guest]

There was an extensive investigation into the Grandbury incident. It was found

that the actions of the patient were not foreseeable by the crew.

We do not have a legal obligation to transport people without a medical

condition. In the Grandbury case, the cops believed the person was drunk enough

to need medical attention. I advise my students to restrain when there is any

question about the mental stability of the patient; however, we are not trained

to identify those people, and I don't know of any reliable formula for doing

that on the street.

As always, the test is whether or not our actions are those of a reasonable and

prudent practitioner under the circumstances. What happens must be reasonably

foreseeable. If it is not, there's no liability. Foreseeability is always a

question of fact, as is reasonableness.

GG

Re: Teen dies after highway jump from SC ambulance

Has there been any serious medico-legal discussion into this phenomenon?

Do we have a legal obligation to transport someone who does not require our

medical attention, simply because the cops don't want to do it themselves?

Don't the cops have both the authority and the obligation to restrain such

persons and take them to medical attention?

What is our liability when this happens, and it is obviously beyond our control?

Lots and lots of questions.

Rob

[Guest guest]

This also happened in the Denver Metro area in 2007, I think. Another psych

patient.

Aaarrggghhh ! ! ! Teen Dies

>

> Always envisaged this happening

> Think I have avoided a couple such scenario in my career...

>

> Teen Dies After Highway Jump From S.C. Ambulance

> Monday , March 01, 2010

> GREENVILLE, S.C. - A teenager has died after jumping out of a moving

> ambulance on an interstate highway in South Carolina.

> Multiple media outlets reported the 16-year-old boy died shortly after

> the leap near Greenville while be was being driven to a psychiatric

> hospital in Columbia

> Coroner Mike Ellis says the teen was restrained on a gurney in the back

> of a Greenville Hospital Systems ambulance when he loosened his

> restraints, moved past an emergency technician, opened the door and

> jumped.

> Emergency workers treated the teen before taking him back to the

> hospital in Greenville, where he was pronounced dead minutes later.

> An autopsy was planned Monday.

>

>

[Guest guest]

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Hash: SHA1

dave, you are correct but that is not the way it works..as a mental

health peace officer, i have been told 100% of the time they will not

take my patient until he/she is medically cleared..i can take them back

to where i picked them up and have the evaluation done...at the counties

expense..or explain to the state hospital that they will accept the

patient and i will contact our counties attorney and request a complaint

be filed against the state hospital. the state hospital will " accept "

the patient but tell me that since they are not medically cleared it is

unlikely they will keep them and about the time i get home, the state

hospital will call the sheriffs office and state the patient is not

accepted and, according to law, i must return the patient to the place i

found them.....and start the process over OR get medically cleared and

return the patient to the state hospital where they magically find

reason to keep them. somewhere along the process, we forgot that

getting the patient help is what this is all about.....our mental health

system needs scrapping and we need to start over...i hope this opinion

will change the process, but for years we have tried to make it work

with no success. ht

>

>

> Rob,

>

> The AG issued a ruling in December of last year that said that LE does

> not have to get the patient medically cleared prior to taking them to a

> psych facility. The opinion is posted on the TAA website @ www.txamb.com

> if you want to read it.

>

> Dave

> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

>

> Re: Teen dies after highway jump from SC ambulance

>

> Has there been any serious medico-legal discussion into this phenomenon?

>

> Do we have a legal obligation to transport someone who does not require

> our medical attention, simply because the cops don't want to do it

> themselves?

>

> Don't the cops have both the authority and the obligation to restrain

> such persons and take them to medical attention?

>

> What is our liability when this happens, and it is obviously beyond our

> control?

>

> Lots and lots of questions.

>

> Rob

>

>

[Guest guest]

Happened in a few weeks ago.....I've heard of at least 10 or so of these

throughout the years, I've had a few close calls with patients trying to exit.

I know a few manufacturers can spec out safety doors that don't open unless the

truck is in park, they also have an override button.

-MH

________________________________

From: texasems-l [texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Cindy

Poe [poe_cindy@...]

Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 5:51 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Teen dies after highway jump from SC ambulance

This also happened in the Denver Metro area in 2007, I think. Another psych

patient.

Aaarrggghhh ! ! ! Teen Dies

>

> Always envisaged this happening

> Think I have avoided a couple such scenario in my career...

>

> Teen Dies After Highway Jump From S.C. Ambulance

> Monday , March 01, 2010

> GREENVILLE, S.C. - A teenager has died after jumping out of a moving

> ambulance on an interstate highway in South Carolina.

> Multiple media outlets reported the 16-year-old boy died shortly after

> the leap near Greenville while be was being driven to a psychiatric

> hospital in Columbia

> Coroner Mike Ellis says the teen was restrained on a gurney in the back

> of a Greenville Hospital Systems ambulance when he loosened his

> restraints, moved past an emergency technician, opened the door and

> jumped.

> Emergency workers treated the teen before taking him back to the

> hospital in Greenville, where he was pronounced dead minutes later.

> An autopsy was planned Monday.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I disagree. Providing or offering them help definitely matters, but

remember that the patient doesn't have to take it. Some patients

definitely and stubbornly don't want it. Or they only want it if it

involves [insert their favorite drug here]. I apologize; I know that

this was probably the spirit in which your message was written, but

I'm sure we all have that one, all-too-familiar patient.

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

> Hash: SHA1

>

> dave, you are correct but that is not the way it works..as a mental

> health peace officer, i have been told 100% of the time they will not

> take my patient until he/she is medically cleared..i can take them

> back

> to where i picked them up and have the evaluation done...at the

> counties

> expense..or explain to the state hospital that they will accept the

> patient and i will contact our counties attorney and request a

> complaint

> be filed against the state hospital. the state hospital will " accept "

> the patient but tell me that since they are not medically cleared it

> is

> unlikely they will keep them and about the time i get home, the state

> hospital will call the sheriffs office and state the patient is not

> accepted and, according to law, i must return the patient to the

> place i

> found them.....and start the process over OR get medically cleared

> and

> return the patient to the state hospital where they magically find

> reason to keep them. somewhere along the process, we forgot that

> getting the patient help is what this is all about.....our mental

> health

> system needs scrapping and we need to start over...i hope this opinion

> will change the process, but for years we have tried to make it work

> with no success. ht

>

>

>>

>>

>> Rob,

>>

>> The AG issued a ruling in December of last year that said that LE

>> does

>> not have to get the patient medically cleared prior to taking them

>> to a

>> psych facility. The opinion is posted on the TAA website @ www.txamb.com

>> if you want to read it.

>>

>> Dave

>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

>>

>> Re: Teen dies after highway jump from SC

>> ambulance

>>

>> Has there been any serious medico-legal discussion into this

>> phenomenon?

>>

>> Do we have a legal obligation to transport someone who does not

>> require

>> our medical attention, simply because the cops don't want to do it

>> themselves?

>>

>> Don't the cops have both the authority and the obligation to restrain

>> such persons and take them to medical attention?

>>

>> What is our liability when this happens, and it is obviously beyond

>> our

>> control?

>>

>> Lots and lots of questions.

>>

>> Rob

>>

>>