Re: Code 3 to pickup at a hospital

November 30, 2009

If the transport from said hospital was defined as a true emergency

and the patient was being transferred to another hospital for life

sustaining care not available at the original hospital then

potentially it would warrant an emergent response if the ground

ambulance was the most appropriate mode of transport. A code 3

response merely to meet an eta for a non emergent transfer is grossly

innaporpriate. If that ambulance were to be involved in an accident

and were to kill someone then the large check books would come out.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 30, 2009, at 2:11 AM, Steve Gann bluewaterdream77@...>

wrote:

> I need some light shed on something that does not seem right to me.

>

> I am aware of a company that commonly has it's units responding from

> a good distance run code 3 traffic solely to meet an eta given by

> call takers.

>

> I have done this before when a dispatcher informs me I need to only

> to arrive and find there was no need for it. I was quite irritated

> considering the risk that EVERYONE was and is put at when running

> code 3.

>

> Does anyone know if this is legal or kosher in regaurd to law?

>

> I need facts here, I know there will be PLENTY of opinions here.

> Opinions will do me no good.

>

> Thanks in advance.

>

November 30, 2009

This is hard to explain because there are so many factual variables possible.

The Uniform Traffic Code provides that emergency vehicles may exceed the speed

limit and disregard certain other laws IN AN EMERGENCY, but that they must drive

at all times with due regard to the rights of other drivers.

What constitutes an emergency is subjective. There are several levels of fact

finding that go into the process of declaring something to be an emergency.

First, dispatch uses either common sense or one of the canned programs to

determine whether or not an emergency exists and what level of response is

warranted. Generally the responding units must rely upon the decisions of

dispatch and comply.

However, if one has prior knowledge that dispatch is routinely violating the

rules by declaring emergencies when none exists, then the crews have a duty not

to violate the law. But if admistration ways you will responde Code 3 if

dispatch tells you, and you do it and get into a collision, you're going to be

primarily liable, but you can join the dispatcher and the administrators as

co-defendants. Small consolation.

The trouble with all this is that these determinations are purely fact driven.

Every situation is different.

But I think that simply being ordered to run emergency traffic to meet a routine

transfer appointment does not constitute an emergency, and if a collision

occurred, the ambulance driver might be in a lot of trouble. The dispatcher

might also be in trouble, and the service would ALWAYS be in trouble since the

lawyers will always sue the defendants with the deepest pockets.

I also think that law enforcement might be correct in looking into the

legitimacy of an emergency response AT THE HOSPITAL or destination, not by

pulling over the ambulance. Absent a bona fide emergency, law enforcement could

file a speeding case or something worse against the driver.

However, that said, law enforcement might be loathe to criticize EMS folks for

committing any traffic violations since LE people routinely violate the laws

every hour of every day with impunity and generally without legal justification.

But that has never deterred some cops from harassing EMS folks.

It's generally only after a crash that any of these things come to light. Then

it's the lawyers who will carve out the facts to fit their theories of the case,

and if you can't show that an actual " emergency " -- whatever that

means---existed, you and your employer and the dispatcher and maybe the medical

director are.............toast!

I didn't give you much of a factual answer. Sorry. The question is just not

able to be answered minus the facts of the situation.

Gene Gandy, JD, NREMT-P

Subject: Code 3 to pickup at a hospital

Date: November 30, 2009 1:11:29 AM MST

To: texasems-l

I need some light shed on something that does not seem right to me.

I am aware of a company that commonly has it's units responding from a good

distance run code 3 traffic solely to meet an eta given by call takers.

I have done this before when a dispatcher informs me I need to only to arrive

and find there was no need for it. I was quite irritated considering the risk

that EVERYONE was and is put at when running code 3.

Does anyone know if this is legal or kosher in regaurd to law?

I need facts here, I know there will be PLENTY of opinions here. Opinions will

do me no good.

Thanks in advance.

November 30, 2009