Guest guest Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I'm there but they would have to use Crown Royale for me! LOL Jane Dinsmore To: texasems-l From: wegandy1938@... Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:18:32 -0700 Subject: Re: A new WTF! Since it's now my understanding (from 5 minutes ago) that ETOH lessens the surface tension of the fluid and makes it easier to move across the alveolar walls, ETOH plus CPAP might be just the thing. We would have patients clamoring for our services, not to mention the crews. Doc: I want 3 mL of vodka given per SVN. Nurse: Do you want the house brand or the premium? We have Old Mr. Boston or Grey Goose. GG Subject: Re: A new WTF! Date: November 23, 2009 9:03:50 PM MST To: texasems-l Hmmm..... All this time I spent to put CPAP on the units. I would be willing to bet more people would show up for Vodka training. Great to see everyone this year... Neil > > > Today one of my paramedic students related this: > > He was doing an ER clinical rotation at one of the small rural hospitals > when EMS brought a patient with pulmonary edema and CHF. > > ER doc ordered 3 mL of vodka administered by small volume nebulizer. > > After some discussion the vodka was brought from the pharmacy and the doc > gave said patient a breathing treatment with the vodka. > > Anybody ever heard of such a thing before? > > Gene Gandy > > BTW, I hope you're all having a blast at the Conference. Wish I was there. > > GG > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 And it also keeps the Pharmacist happy and we ALL know we have to keep the Pharmacist happy!!!!!! Jane Dinsmore To: texasems-l From: krin135@... Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 05:30:37 -0500 Subject: Re: A new WTF! because vodka and bourbon, along with Alcohol, USP, used to be standbys in the pharmacy to help mix up various potions, concoctions, decoctions and elixirs where a pill or capsule would not do, and the medication would not dissolve in plain water. ck In a message dated 11/24/2009 03:52:18 Central Standard Time, lnmolino@... writes: Ok I just thought of this. Why did the pharmacy have vodka?? Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/FF/N Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos (Cell) _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...) On Nov 23, 2009, at 21:43, wegandy1938 <_wegandy1938@wegandy_ (mailto:wegandy1938@...) > wrote: > Today one of my paramedic students related this: > > He was doing an ER clinical rotation at one of the small rural > hospitals when EMS brought a patient with pulmonary edema and CHF. > > ER doc ordered 3 mL of vodka administered by small volume nebulizer. > > After some discussion the vodka was brought from the pharmacy and > the doc gave said patient a breathing treatment with the vodka. > > Anybody ever heard of such a thing before? > > Gene Gandy > > BTW, I hope you're all having a blast at the Conference. Wish I was > there. > > GG > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Gene: You piqued my curiosity. I needed a good laugh. I definitely would like to know what the outcome was. Regards, " rabbiems " SSG.Rick R. " Doc " Borenstein. A new WTF! Today one of my paramedic students related this: He was doing an ER clinical rotation at one of the small rural hospitals when EMS brought a patient with pulmonary edema and CHF. ER doc ordered 3 mL of vodka administered by small volume nebulizer. After some discussion the vodka was brought from the pharmacy and the doc gave said patient a breathing treatment with the vodka. Anybody ever heard of such a thing before? Gene Gandy BTW, I hope you're all having a blast at the Conference. Wish I was there. GG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Gene: You piqued my curiosity. I needed a good laugh. I definitely would like to know what the outcome was. Regards, " rabbiems " SSG.Rick R. " Doc " Borenstein. A new WTF! Today one of my paramedic students related this: He was doing an ER clinical rotation at one of the small rural hospitals when EMS brought a patient with pulmonary edema and CHF. ER doc ordered 3 mL of vodka administered by small volume nebulizer. After some discussion the vodka was brought from the pharmacy and the doc gave said patient a breathing treatment with the vodka. Anybody ever heard of such a thing before? Gene Gandy BTW, I hope you're all having a blast at the Conference. Wish I was there. GG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 chuckle...actually, the ethanol binds to the alcohol dehydrogenase in the liver, allowing the methanol or ethylene glycol to be flushed from the system without being metabolized. (Technically, ethanol blocks the others by first order kinetics, as it is the preferred substrate for that enzyme). and I remember having 10% Ethanol in D5W available for both tocolysis (stopping preterm labor) and the treatment of antifreeze ingestion. Giving it IV would be much easier to titrate than either oral or neb administration. ck In a message dated 11/24/2009 13:45:37 Central Standard Time, csuprun@... writes: Alright, I'll go you one better...think overdose. Apparently, there were quite a few antifreeze overdoses in the Minneapolis-Alright, I'll go you one better...think overdose. Apparently, there were quite a few antifreeze overdoses in the Minneapolis- St. region of the world back in the day...(back in the day indicating when people were doing it and the original knowledge passer-on was operating as a street medic and ER nurse there)...the treatment of choice was also vodka. This was done because by providing it to the patient via neb it would jump across into the bloodstream and bind with the antifreeze making it inert or less dangerous. I have found nowhere that still does it, but if you talk to enough folks occasionally you get the head nod of 'yeah, I've heard of it at least.' Suprun > > Today one of my paramedic students related this: > > He was doing an ER clinical rotation at one of the small rural hospitals when EMS brought a patient with pulmonary edema and CHF. > > ER doc ordered 3 mL of vodka administered by small volume nebulizer. > > After some discussion the vodka was brought from the pharmacy and the doc gave said patient a breathing treatment with the vodka. > > Anybody ever heard of such a thing before? > > Gene Gandy > > BTW, I hope you're all having a blast at the Conference. Wish I was there. > > GG > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Nowadays everybody thinks that Vodka is only an alcoholic drink and has nothing to do with medicine. At first Vodka was known as a very effective healing potion that was able to cure people from many diseases. And it was created with purpose of treatment. It was know as medicine with vast possibilities. Vodka became popular because of middle-age alchemists that where trying to find the “Philosophical stone”. They where carrying out a lot of experiments using minerals, chemical bonds and also they used raw produce. But then they recalled an ancient drink that was a true “holy drink”. This stuff could make you stronger, it could give you power to fight; it could make you feel happy when you are sad, and also it could make a party funnier. Finally the alchemists came to a conclusion that the magical medical power of Vodka was exactly what they needed, if it was used it properly, of course. And this “magical” drink was cold properly: it was called—“aqua vitae” that means “water of life” in Latin. Vodka proved itself as a very good drink during the European wars in middle ages. Vodka was a very good antiseptic and had a good energetic value. When a soldier was wounded his wound could be cleaned with Vodka and it will disinfect the wound and it would make the wound heal fast. Also Vodka was a good anesthetic potion and the doctors where using it on their patients to operate them. Before that they used a wood hammer to make them faint. This fantastic drink helped a lot because the hygiene was poor, and they didn’t have any antiseptics or antibiotics. Using “water of life” people were learning more and more of its medical properties. One of those is enlarging your blood vessels. It can be also used as the diuretic, or as the bile-expelling means. Vodka is a very good dissolvent and it is used to make infusions of the medicinal grasses for better effect. But it is effective only when drunk by small portions. Be careful with Vodka because every medical potion becomes venom when it’s being used not properly or if you drink it too much. http://www.farmaco.ru/eng/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 as well as ethylene glycol poisoning, and a decent tocolytic. ck In a message dated 11/24/2009 19:30:57 Central Standard Time, wegandy1938@... writes: Also ETOH is the antidote for methanol poisoning.. GG From: krin135@... Subject: Re: A new WTF! Date: November 24, 2009 3:30:37 AM MST To: texasems-l because vodka and bourbon, along with Alcohol, USP, used to be standbys in the pharmacy to help mix up various potions, concoctions, decoctions and elixirs where a pill or capsule would not do, and the medication would not dissolve in plain water. ck In a message dated 11/24/2009 03:52:18 Central Standard Time, lnmolino@... writes: Ok I just thought of this. Why did the pharmacy have vodka?? Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/FF/N Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos (Cell) _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...) On Nov 23, 2009, at 21:43, wegandy1938 <_wegandy1938@wegandy_ (mailto:wegandy1938@...) > wrote: > Today one of my paramedic students related this: > > He was doing an ER clinical rotation at one of the small rural > hospitals when EMS brought a patient with pulmonary edema and CHF. > > ER doc ordered 3 mL of vodka administered by small volume nebulizer. > > After some discussion the vodka was brought from the pharmacy and > the doc gave said patient a breathing treatment with the vodka. > > Anybody ever heard of such a thing before? > > Gene Gandy > > BTW, I hope you're all having a blast at the Conference. Wish I was > there. > > GG > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 as well as ethylene glycol poisoning, and a decent tocolytic. ck In a message dated 11/24/2009 19:30:57 Central Standard Time, wegandy1938@... writes: Also ETOH is the antidote for methanol poisoning.. GG From: krin135@... Subject: Re: A new WTF! Date: November 24, 2009 3:30:37 AM MST To: texasems-l because vodka and bourbon, along with Alcohol, USP, used to be standbys in the pharmacy to help mix up various potions, concoctions, decoctions and elixirs where a pill or capsule would not do, and the medication would not dissolve in plain water. ck In a message dated 11/24/2009 03:52:18 Central Standard Time, lnmolino@... writes: Ok I just thought of this. Why did the pharmacy have vodka?? Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/FF/N Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos (Cell) _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...) On Nov 23, 2009, at 21:43, wegandy1938 <_wegandy1938@wegandy_ (mailto:wegandy1938@...) > wrote: > Today one of my paramedic students related this: > > He was doing an ER clinical rotation at one of the small rural > hospitals when EMS brought a patient with pulmonary edema and CHF. > > ER doc ordered 3 mL of vodka administered by small volume nebulizer. > > After some discussion the vodka was brought from the pharmacy and > the doc gave said patient a breathing treatment with the vodka. > > Anybody ever heard of such a thing before? > > Gene Gandy > > BTW, I hope you're all having a blast at the Conference. Wish I was > there. > > GG > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Also ETOH is the antidote for methanol poisoning.. GG From: krin135@... Subject: Re: A new WTF! Date: November 24, 2009 3:30:37 AM MST To: texasems-l because vodka and bourbon, along with Alcohol, USP, used to be standbys in the pharmacy to help mix up various potions, concoctions, decoctions and elixirs where a pill or capsule would not do, and the medication would not dissolve in plain water. ck In a message dated 11/24/2009 03:52:18 Central Standard Time, lnmolino@... writes: Ok I just thought of this. Why did the pharmacy have vodka?? Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/FF/N Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos (Cell) _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...) On Nov 23, 2009, at 21:43, wegandy1938 <_wegandy1938@wegandy_ (mailto:wegandy1938@...) > wrote: > Today one of my paramedic students related this: > > He was doing an ER clinical rotation at one of the small rural > hospitals when EMS brought a patient with pulmonary edema and CHF. > > ER doc ordered 3 mL of vodka administered by small volume nebulizer. > > After some discussion the vodka was brought from the pharmacy and > the doc gave said patient a breathing treatment with the vodka. > > Anybody ever heard of such a thing before? > > Gene Gandy > > BTW, I hope you're all having a blast at the Conference. Wish I was > there. > > GG > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 We don't know the outcome, unfortunately. GG On Nov 24, 2009, at 5:43:59 AM, " Borenstein " rabbiems@...> wrote: Subject: RE: A new WTF! Date: November 24, 2009 5:43:59 AM MST To: texasems-l Gene: You piqued my curiosity. I needed a good laugh. I definitely would like to know what the outcome was. Regards, " rabbiems " SSG.Rick R. " Doc " Borenstein. A new WTF! Today one of my paramedic students related this: He was doing an ER clinical rotation at one of the small rural hospitals when EMS brought a patient with pulmonary edema and CHF. ER doc ordered 3 mL of vodka administered by small volume nebulizer. After some discussion the vodka was brought from the pharmacy and the doc gave said patient a breathing treatment with the vodka. Anybody ever heard of such a thing before? Gene Gandy BTW, I hope you're all having a blast at the Conference. Wish I was there. GG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 which was probably why I didn't remember it that well...I was mostly doing chronic/long term/rehab for much of that time. While I did work the ER in that time frame, I don't recall that many florid pulmonary edema cases...but then, the other two hospitals in town had much more comprehensive cardiac care available. ck In a message dated 11/25/2009 06:11:07 Central Standard Time, r.e.powell@... writes: Gene, When I was in Respiratory Therapy in the late 70s this was common practice for pulmonary edema with pink frothy sputum. We also used intermittent positive pressure ventilation (IPPV) machines like the Bird Mark 7. It is the same principle as using aqueous film forming foam (AFFF) to smother a hydrocarbon fire. The AFFF does not allow for air to reach the hydrocarbon. The pink frothy sputum does not air to reach the alveolar and respiratory bronchiole surfaces and allow gas exchange. Then we in the fire service were told to use this new AFFF/ATC on alcohol fires because alcohol causes the foam to break down. Same principle to using vodka in a neb treatment, the alcohol breaks down the foam and allows air to reach the alveolar and respiratory bronchiole surfaces so gas exchange can take place. This went by the wayside as bronchodilators improved and small volume nebulizers made their debut. Randy E. RN, LP [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Gene, When I was in Respiratory Therapy in the late 70s this was common practice for pulmonary edema with pink frothy sputum. We also used intermittent positive pressure ventilation (IPPV) machines like the Bird Mark 7. It is the same principle as using aqueous film forming foam (AFFF) to smother a hydrocarbon fire. The AFFF does not allow for air to reach the hydrocarbon. The pink frothy sputum does not air to reach the alveolar and respiratory bronchiole surfaces and allow gas exchange. Then we in the fire service were told to use this new AFFF/ATC on alcohol fires because alcohol causes the foam to break down. Same principle to using vodka in a neb treatment, the alcohol breaks down the foam and allows air to reach the alveolar and respiratory bronchiole surfaces so gas exchange can take place. This went by the wayside as bronchodilators improved and small volume nebulizers made their debut. Randy E. RN, LP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 I as an old RT have seen this done with everclear. And the pharmacy keeps it for those who drink things other than Chivas or Canadian Club. You know like aqua velva, rubbing alcohol, antifreese, or the likes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 I demand a protocol for nebulized vodka and a gallon of Grey Goose in every truck! GG From: krin135@... Subject: Re: A new WTF! Date: November 25, 2009 5:27:32 AM MST To: texasems-l which was probably why I didn't remember it that well...I was mostly doing chronic/long term/rehab for much of that time. While I did work the ER in that time frame, I don't recall that many florid pulmonary edema cases...but then, the other two hospitals in town had much more comprehensive cardiac care available. ck In a message dated 11/25/2009 06:11:07 Central Standard Time, r.e.powell@... writes: Gene, When I was in Respiratory Therapy in the late 70s this was common practice for pulmonary edema with pink frothy sputum. We also used intermittent positive pressure ventilation (IPPV) machines like the Bird Mark 7. It is the same principle as using aqueous film forming foam (AFFF) to smother a hydrocarbon fire. The AFFF does not allow for air to reach the hydrocarbon. The pink frothy sputum does not air to reach the alveolar and respiratory bronchiole surfaces and allow gas exchange. Then we in the fire service were told to use this new AFFF/ATC on alcohol fires because alcohol causes the foam to break down. Same principle to using vodka in a neb treatment, the alcohol breaks down the foam and allows air to reach the alveolar and respiratory bronchiole surfaces so gas exchange can take place. This went by the wayside as bronchodilators improved and small volume nebulizers made their debut. Randy E. RN, LP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 In several Scandinavian countries, it is a common practice to pour a few liters of vodka over the sauna rocks and breathe deeply for a few minutes......Everybody gets buzzed together that way in a short amount of time...those Swedes, what will they think of next.. -MH ________________________________________ From: texasems-l [texasems-l ] On Behalf Of wegandy1938 [wegandy1938@...] Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 8:33 PM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: A new WTF! I demand a protocol for nebulized vodka and a gallon of Grey Goose in every truck! GG From: krin135@... Subject: Re: A new WTF! Date: November 25, 2009 5:27:32 AM MST To: texasems-l which was probably why I didn't remember it that well...I was mostly doing chronic/long term/rehab for much of that time. While I did work the ER in that time frame, I don't recall that many florid pulmonary edema cases...but then, the other two hospitals in town had much more comprehensive cardiac care available. ck In a message dated 11/25/2009 06:11:07 Central Standard Time, r.e.powell@... writes: Gene, When I was in Respiratory Therapy in the late 70s this was common practice for pulmonary edema with pink frothy sputum. We also used intermittent positive pressure ventilation (IPPV) machines like the Bird Mark 7. It is the same principle as using aqueous film forming foam (AFFF) to smother a hydrocarbon fire. The AFFF does not allow for air to reach the hydrocarbon. The pink frothy sputum does not air to reach the alveolar and respiratory bronchiole surfaces and allow gas exchange. Then we in the fire service were told to use this new AFFF/ATC on alcohol fires because alcohol causes the foam to break down. Same principle to using vodka in a neb treatment, the alcohol breaks down the foam and allows air to reach the alveolar and respiratory bronchiole surfaces so gas exchange can take place. This went by the wayside as bronchodilators improved and small volume nebulizers made their debut. Randy E. RN, LP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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