Re: To statin or not to statin...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/12/2005 10:35:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,

gretchen@... writes:

> There's so much that we don't yet know about all this.

So true, Gretchen, and person to person variations compound the problem. I'm

going through this dilemma right now. I want to lower cholesterol to see if it

will help clean out my arteries, but before trying statins I'll complete the

Resveratrol test. BTW, I started that yesterday.

I went to an LMT (licensed massage therapist) to see if massage would help

with edema in my foot. Wow! did that hurt! It had no permanent effect on my

edema but the LMT said that the pain would be less if circulation was better . .

..

I can use the pain effect as an " artery occlusion monitor " , but I'm not

having it done that often <G>

Does anyone know of a home-based method to monitor circulation? I have some

way-out ideas, but there's no point in reinventing the wheel.

[Guest guest]

> My doctor told me that even with my

> numbers it is now recommended that everyone with diabetes take statins

> to protect the heart.

What we really don't know is whether well-controlled people with diabetes

are at greater risk than nondiabetics. Formal recommendations assume anyone

with diabetes is not well controlled.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

My two thoughts: My Doc started me on Lipitor and within a short time I

developed pain in my big muscles, legs, and arms. He took me off and

hasn't suggested another brand or anything. I have been on Gemfibrozil

for a long time and my cholestrol is in a normal range but the other two

are not.

Secondly, all of my family members have high cholestrol numbers. One

cousin who is in her mid 80s and very healthy, takes a drug, plus

oatmeal daily. It doesn't seem to change her numbers at all, she walks

for a couple of miles every day! If you have this, don't know if this

is correct to say, genetic cholestrol problem, I wonder if beside a good

diet and exercise if you are not doing all you can do. I can

think of three family members, beside myself, who have this problem that

doesn't seem to be greatly helped by drugs. (By the way, I am the only

diabetic of the group)

Jo

Gretchen wrote:

>>My doctor told me that even with my

>>numbers it is now recommended that everyone with diabetes take statins

>>to protect the heart.

>>

>>

>

>What we really don't know is whether well-controlled people with diabetes

>are at greater risk than nondiabetics. Formal recommendations assume anyone

>with diabetes is not well controlled.

>

>Gretchen

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/12/2005 12:16:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,

koresun@... writes:

> There is a product called nattokinase which is used extensively in Japan.

Thanks, Dianne, I'll give that a try. Do you have a URL where I can order it?

<<I don't know how you feel about supplements, but I run on them. >>

I like them and experiment whenever I have a problem. I tried something

called VitaCell that was supposed to improve the circulation in arteries. I took

1/3 the recommended dose and felt more energetic from day one, but at about day

six got a bloodshot eye . . . subconjunctival hematoma. I've stopped the

VitaCell while that clears. I'm familiar with subconjunctival hematomas as I get

one every two years or so, no matter what. It might not be the fault of

VitaCell, but it seems that everything comes with a trade off

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/12/2005 12:16:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,

koresun@... writes:

> There is a product called nattokinase which is used extensively in Japan.

Thanks, Dianne, I'll give that a try. Do you have a URL where I can order it?

<<I don't know how you feel about supplements, but I run on them. >>

I like them and experiment whenever I have a problem. I tried something

called VitaCell that was supposed to improve the circulation in arteries. I took

1/3 the recommended dose and felt more energetic from day one, but at about day

six got a bloodshot eye . . . subconjunctival hematoma. I've stopped the

VitaCell while that clears. I'm familiar with subconjunctival hematomas as I get

one every two years or so, no matter what. It might not be the fault of

VitaCell, but it seems that everything comes with a trade off

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/12/2005 12:16:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,

koresun@... writes:

> There is a product called nattokinase which is used extensively in Japan.

Thanks, Dianne, I'll give that a try. Do you have a URL where I can order it?

<<I don't know how you feel about supplements, but I run on them. >>

I like them and experiment whenever I have a problem. I tried something

called VitaCell that was supposed to improve the circulation in arteries. I took

1/3 the recommended dose and felt more energetic from day one, but at about day

six got a bloodshot eye . . . subconjunctival hematoma. I've stopped the

VitaCell while that clears. I'm familiar with subconjunctival hematomas as I get

one every two years or so, no matter what. It might not be the fault of

VitaCell, but it seems that everything comes with a trade off

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/12/2005 2:10:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jlnhjm@... writes:

> I am surprised no doctor has mentioned wearing these stockings to you.

I tried them, Helen, but my right foot has no muscle power and it's

practically impossible to get the stocking off, even the lowest pressure type.

I've

compromised by using tight socks and high top boots that I put on first thing in

the morning. They help a little, but I still need to resolve the problem. None

of the professionals know what's causing it. I take a small amount of

potassium and that seems to help, but of course you can't take much of that else

it

interferes with the heart. Another tradeoff situation.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/12/2005 2:10:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jlnhjm@... writes:

> I am surprised no doctor has mentioned wearing these stockings to you.

I tried them, Helen, but my right foot has no muscle power and it's

practically impossible to get the stocking off, even the lowest pressure type.

I've

compromised by using tight socks and high top boots that I put on first thing in

the morning. They help a little, but I still need to resolve the problem. None

of the professionals know what's causing it. I take a small amount of

potassium and that seems to help, but of course you can't take much of that else

it

interferes with the heart. Another tradeoff situation.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/12/2005 2:10:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jlnhjm@... writes:

> I am surprised no doctor has mentioned wearing these stockings to you.

I tried them, Helen, but my right foot has no muscle power and it's

practically impossible to get the stocking off, even the lowest pressure type.

I've

compromised by using tight socks and high top boots that I put on first thing in

the morning. They help a little, but I still need to resolve the problem. None

of the professionals know what's causing it. I take a small amount of

potassium and that seems to help, but of course you can't take much of that else

it

interferes with the heart. Another tradeoff situation.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/12/2005 2:18:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,

gretchen@... writes:

> Well, until your head swells up too much <G>.

I asked the chiropractor about getting one of those tables that swing through

360 degrees. He said that you have to watch out for pressure in the eyes when

you do that . . . no mention of cranium dimensions though <G>

This was all so much easier 55 years ago, but even then I recall that

negative g in airplanes can cause red out, and it's much more dangerous than

black

out.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/12/2005 2:18:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,

gretchen@... writes:

> Well, until your head swells up too much <G>.

I asked the chiropractor about getting one of those tables that swing through

360 degrees. He said that you have to watch out for pressure in the eyes when

you do that . . . no mention of cranium dimensions though <G>

This was all so much easier 55 years ago, but even then I recall that

negative g in airplanes can cause red out, and it's much more dangerous than

black

out.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/12/2005 2:18:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,

gretchen@... writes:

> Well, until your head swells up too much <G>.

I asked the chiropractor about getting one of those tables that swing through

360 degrees. He said that you have to watch out for pressure in the eyes when

you do that . . . no mention of cranium dimensions though <G>

This was all so much easier 55 years ago, but even then I recall that

negative g in airplanes can cause red out, and it's much more dangerous than

black

out.

[Guest guest]

> Secondly, all of my family members have high cholestrol numbers.

I have a friend who was in a research study at Albert Einstein in New York

on long-lived people and high cholesterol. Apparently one genetic variation

makes you have light, fluffy LDL instead of small, dense LDL, and the fluffy

stuff is associated with longevity.

" My dad had the same thing. At age 70s, his cholesterol was 340. He did

not take any Statin until his mid 90s, at which point he went into an

immediate cognitive decline and developed intense depression. Even so,

he lived to be 100 and died from a fall. "

There's so much that we don't yet know about all this.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

, my podiatrist would squeeze the big toes of his patients and see

how fast they returned to " pink " as a way to judge circulation. There

are also pulse points in the feet, one behind the ankle, another on top

of the foot, but you would have to check the exact places on the net.

If a toe returned to its natural color at the count of three or four, he

judged the circulation as good.

Remember I have edema too and this was independent of that.

Helen

[Guest guest]

Exactly so.

I've mentioned this exact point to my doctor but he says taking a statin

for a well-controlled diabetic is insurance. He also told me that I'm

his ONLY well controlled diabetic patient, of either type. And he has

many diabetic patients.

Vicki

Re: To statin or not to statin...

>> My doctor told me that even with my

>> numbers it is now recommended that everyone with diabetes take

>> statins

>> to protect the heart.

>

> What we really don't know is whether well-controlled people with

> diabetes

> are at greater risk than nondiabetics. Formal recommendations assume

> anyone

> with diabetes is not well controlled.

>

> Gretchen

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Christy,

It wasn't Mevacor I was taking, but when I followed my doctor's advice and took

a statin, I had severe side effects. My muscles hurt and became so weak that

climbing stairs became a nightmare (and I live in a fifth floor walk-up!) I

couldn't even step up onto a curb without holding onto something. I'm sure that

not everyone will have the results that I did, but I was scared and appalled.

My doctor was quite casual about the muscle problems that were causing such

havoc in my life.

Against his advice, I stopped taking it and resolved never to take a statin

again. I am not completely convinced that cholesterol is the villain anyway.

Half the people who die from heart attacks have perfectly normal cholesterol.

Doctors admit that. This constantly lowering the figure that makes our

cholesterol " okay " seems like a ploy to enrich Big Pharma. How low are we

supposed to go? Our bodies need cholesterol.

Do what seems best for you, but if you do take a statin, you might consider

taking CoQ10 with it, to limit the damage to your heart muscles.

Dianne

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[Guest guest]

Hi ,

There is a product called nattokinase which is used extensively in Japan. It is

supposed to clean out plaque in the arteries. I found it because I subscribe to

several holistic newsletters, and several doctors are recommending it.

I suspected that my right leg might be affected. When I tried it, there was

some pain in that leg, for a brief time, but nothing since. I take some each

day as a preventive. If I knew I had a problem though, I would step up my

research.

I don't know how you feel about supplements, but I run on them. I can

definitely tell when something works for me and when it doesn't. I don't take

anything that doesn't provide a benefit that I can feel.

Just a thought.

Dianne

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[Guest guest]

>my podiatrist would squeeze the big toes of his patients and see how fast they

returned to " pink " as a way to judge circulation.<

Interesting, Helen.

I tested mine just now and they were pink to begin with, pinker when I squeezed

them, and returned to their customary color before I had time to count. I

wonder what your doctor would say?

I've been told that my pulses are good.

Do you know the nursery rhyme " Moses supposes " ?

Hugs, Dianne

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[Guest guest]

> He also told me that I'm

> his ONLY well controlled diabetic patient, of either type. And he has

> many diabetic patients.

That's why for so many doctors " diabetic " is synonymous with " poorly

controlled diabetic. "

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

> There is a product called nattokinase which is used extensively in Japan.

It is

> supposed to clean out plaque in the arteries.

I would be very cautious about products to " clean out plaque " because it's

dislodged plaque that can cause strokes.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

At 12:14 PM 10/12/05, Kore wrote:

>There is a product called nattokinase which is used extensively in Japan.

>It is

>supposed to clean out plaque in the arteries. I found it because I

>subscribe to

>several holistic newsletters, and several doctors are recommending it.

I had to look up nattokinase and found good info here:

http://www.springboard4health.com/notebook/health_nattokinase.html

I'd quote it, but it's rather long.

sky

[Guest guest]

At 12:14 PM 10/12/05, Kore wrote:

>There is a product called nattokinase which is used extensively in Japan.

>It is

>supposed to clean out plaque in the arteries. I found it because I

>subscribe to

>several holistic newsletters, and several doctors are recommending it.

I had to look up nattokinase and found good info here:

http://www.springboard4health.com/notebook/health_nattokinase.html

I'd quote it, but it's rather long.

sky

[Guest guest]

At 12:14 PM 10/12/05, Kore wrote:

>There is a product called nattokinase which is used extensively in Japan.

>It is

>supposed to clean out plaque in the arteries. I found it because I

>subscribe to

>several holistic newsletters, and several doctors are recommending it.

I had to look up nattokinase and found good info here:

http://www.springboard4health.com/notebook/health_nattokinase.html

I'd quote it, but it's rather long.

sky

[Guest guest]

> again. I am not completely convinced that cholesterol is the villain

anyway.

> Half the people who die from heart attacks have perfectly normal

cholesterol.

Some people are now suggesting that the statins reduce inflammation and

reducing cholesterol is just a side effect.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

The doctors had a problem finding the pulses in my mother's feet too

because of her edema. (She was not on actos) They had to use a special

instrument to test. You could press the top of her foot in more than an

inch; I had the same massive edema when I was pregnant.

, you can get that edema out of your feet/foot with compression

stockings. Not out of your body, but it isn't as big a problem when it

is at your waist. Except for looks.

You need to wear them all day, and they do make nice dark ones for men.

Then the pulses will be a lot easier to find. I am surprised no doctor

has mentioned wearing these stockings to you. I get mine at e-bay;

however, Medicare will cover two pair a year.

Helen