Re: today's lab results

[Guest guest]

Oops sorry, I thought the ranges were pretty standard.

>

> T3 - 91 (60-181)

> T4 - 6 (4.5-12.5)

> FTI - 8 (5-12)

> TSH - 2.82 (0.3-5.5)

> T uptake - 38.4% (22-37%)

>

> Of course, them listing the " normal " TSH range of 0.3-5.5 may tell

you all you need to know about what they consider normal I'm

trying to look up what these values mean to people who recognize

that a TSH of 2.8-2.9 isn't necessarily " normal " !!!

>

> The endo claimed he could calculate the free T3 and free T4 but I

don't know how he is doing it!

>

> thanks

> Mikki

Lets assume the doc does know what he is doing..( he does not as

calculated Free's can be affected by hormones levels)

For now your T3 is fine in relation to your T4.. meaning they both

are low..

Generally speaking T4 should be above the midrange mark on the

range.. so (4.5-12.5)8.5 is the mid range..you should be 8.5 or

higher not 6..

Again generally speaking, T3 should be in the upper 2/3 to top end

of the range.. a few with conversion problems perfer it over but

others will get hyper symptoms. ( 60-181) so you should be shooting

for 140-181..91 is not cutting it at all.

T3 being the active hormone this is why you feel hypo..and with a

low T4 you just do no thave enough to convert to T3 during the

course of a day.

The TSH debate..just so you know what you are up against and going

to have to fight..I believe we are on what they call the third

generation TSH test..so it is more sensitive than the older testing.

First generation reported as 0.0, second 0.00 third 0.000.. so

nothing fancy..

The way they worked it was too eliminate those with known hyper or

hypo results and then take a group and test them..they came out with

the range 0.5-5..although with so many being hypo they perfer 10 as

the upper limit for what they call overt hypothyroidism.

With more sensitive testing, things like free's etc.. the American

Endo group has suggested a new range of 0.3-3.. and with the cost

and frequency of TSH testing it has been recognized that 50 % of the

population or the median average has a TSH of 1.25.. it is also

recognized that those with antibody tilters or with Cancer of the

thyroid that the thyroid can be suppressed or rested by keeping the

TSH below 1. Anything above 2-2.5 should suggest more testing for a

thyroid disorder.

I will defend the TSH ( augh) for a minute.. HYPO symptoms are not

always obvious and do overlap other symptoms.. a lot of doctors also

order the TSH test as part of a yearly physical. I know my doctor

everytime I have had bloodwork done has always thrown in the TSH

test. So with so many tests being done there has to be a guideline

limit..but the limit of the TSH is SYMPTOMS.. and most docs do not

get this..a TSH test as a first line of defence will indicate

further testing needs to be done in 75% of the patients..

This is where things are messed up.. a TSH only indicates that

further testing needs to be done..it does not confer thyroid status

and leaves out 25% of those tested.

Before you trash your ENDO.. he did recognize with your TSH that

further testing needed to be done..he has started you on

replacement..I have seen lots post that with your TSH the doc tells

them they are normal, refuses to even run the other tests..

Yes, he did the old testing..maybe what he is comfortable with..

What you need to do is talk to the ENDO before new bloodwork..

You need to have the Free's run.. FT4 and FT3 and you need to have

an antibody test called TPO run.. a high TPO is indicative of an

autoimmune thyroid disorder and will tell you why you are hypo..

another test I would try for is an ultrasound of the

thyroid..although rare cancer is a possibility but more common is

benign nodules that do not produce any thyroid hormones..again

leading to why you are hypo????

Tell your ENDO that you feel more comfortable with the Free's run

and if he willing to work with you you are ahead of the game..

Medications for 7 weeks? What medications are you on?

If you are on Synthroid then what you need is labs every 6 weeks..if

you are not on Synthroid then you should be..

The basics on replacement and how the body works..

You start replacement therapy... your body recognizes the extra

hormone and starts to use it.. you feel good.. the body now getting

the extra hormone lessens its signal to the thyroid gland( TSH) and

thinking the thyroid has actually responded to produce more hormone

lessens the signal a little bit.. hypo symptoms come back although

not as bad.. this process takes 6 weeks..

Labs and see doc in 6 weeks, depending on labs and SYMPTOMS dose is

increased..you feel good, TSH again is lowered and you start getting

hypo symptoms ( see above) 6 weeks..

This process continues until you do not do that little dip, you do

labs and see Doctor and both labs AND symptoms are fine.. then you

do labs again in 6 weeks to make sure nothing changes and you hold

it...

After this the doc can spread out the bloodwork to something you

both feel comfortable with as long as you have the ability to get

labs done in between if you don't feel right..

I think I wrote a novel..sorry hope it makes sense though..

Kats3boys

[Guest guest]

> I'm beginning to think that maybe my problem is more that I've

always been borderline hypo in the sense that when my nutritional

status is good it functions adequately, but if I get depleted of the

stuff that a thyroid wants - B12, iodine, selenium, etc - then I

start showing the hypo symptoms again. I can believe that I've been

depleted of a whole LOT of things having twins LOL. (I don't know if

I mentioned but in 12 years I had 10 pregnancies, 3 successful and 7

miscarriages - that' a little rough on the old hormone system!)

JMO..but most western diets include way too much iodine and I would

have iodine levels checked first before adding extra iodine into the

diet.. iodine stimulates the thyroid and if you have antibodies a

stimulated thyroid will increase your antibodies causing more damge

to the thyroid leaving you just a little more hypo each time.

Are you able to contact your OB? Misscarriages are a hypo symptom..

they should have run TPO antibody and TSH testing on you during your

pregnancies..if you can get a copy of them it gives you some thyroid

history to compare..

How old are your twins? They can deplete you of a lot more in the

toddler years if you are not eating and sleeping properly..

Kats3boys

[Guest guest]

Hi Sue, I think how she feels is what is important and also how YOU feel, if you don't feel hyper, then it's OK! There's a woman in another group I'm in who has numbers way over and she feels fabulous, no hyper symptoms at all............................. Meleese in Oz xxx

-------Original Message-------

From: jytdtp

E—your T3F is over range. Do you feel hyper? Your T3F is also at max and your TSH almost zero...Do you feel you are on correct doses?My results just came in very similar to yours and I was thinking I was on too much T3...What do you take/how much/do you think it’s correct dose for you?Thanks in advance,Sue

MIKKI: You want to know my numbers now that I'm on replacement meds...? T3F (230-430) 500 T4F (.08-1.8) 1.8 TSH .01 So...you see what happens when someone is treated...not always, but you can see how VERY different it is from what the docs say.

[Guest guest]

Hi Meleese, yes, as you may see by my post, I asked her how she FEELS..

Both physically and about her meds

I have had this disease long enough to know we go by how we feel but I like to ask others

And then to see what docs will do when you are actually out of range on the high side and STILL feel hypo...

I love when I learn new things and share with others

Sue in USA

Hi Sue, I think how she feels is what is important and also how YOU feel, if you don't feel hyper, then it's OK! There's a woman in another group I'm in who has numbers way over and she feels fabulous, no hyper symptoms at all............................. Meleese in Oz xxx

-------Original Message-------

E—your T3F is over range. Do you feel hyper? Your T3F is also at max and your TSH almost zero...

Do you feel you are on correct doses?

My results just came in very similar to yours and I was thinking I was on too much T3...

What do you take/how much/do you think it’s correct dose for you?

Thanks in advance,

Sue

MIKKI:

You want to know my numbers now that I'm on replacement meds...?

T3F (230-430) 500

T4F (.08-1.8) 1.8

TSH .01

So...you see what happens when someone is treated...not always, but you can see how VERY different it is from what the docs say.

<http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=96627>

[Guest guest]

Hi Meleese, yes, as you may see by my post, I asked her how she FEELS..

Both physically and about her meds

I have had this disease long enough to know we go by how we feel but I like to ask others

And then to see what docs will do when you are actually out of range on the high side and STILL feel hypo...

I love when I learn new things and share with others

Sue in USA

Hi Sue, I think how she feels is what is important and also how YOU feel, if you don't feel hyper, then it's OK! There's a woman in another group I'm in who has numbers way over and she feels fabulous, no hyper symptoms at all............................. Meleese in Oz xxx

-------Original Message-------

E—your T3F is over range. Do you feel hyper? Your T3F is also at max and your TSH almost zero...

Do you feel you are on correct doses?

My results just came in very similar to yours and I was thinking I was on too much T3...

What do you take/how much/do you think it’s correct dose for you?

Thanks in advance,

Sue

MIKKI:

You want to know my numbers now that I'm on replacement meds...?

T3F (230-430) 500

T4F (.08-1.8) 1.8

TSH .01

So...you see what happens when someone is treated...not always, but you can see how VERY different it is from what the docs say.

<http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=96627>

[Guest guest]

Hi Meleese, yes, as you may see by my post, I asked her how she FEELS..

Both physically and about her meds

I have had this disease long enough to know we go by how we feel but I like to ask others

And then to see what docs will do when you are actually out of range on the high side and STILL feel hypo...

I love when I learn new things and share with others

Sue in USA

Hi Sue, I think how she feels is what is important and also how YOU feel, if you don't feel hyper, then it's OK! There's a woman in another group I'm in who has numbers way over and she feels fabulous, no hyper symptoms at all............................. Meleese in Oz xxx

-------Original Message-------

E—your T3F is over range. Do you feel hyper? Your T3F is also at max and your TSH almost zero...

Do you feel you are on correct doses?

My results just came in very similar to yours and I was thinking I was on too much T3...

What do you take/how much/do you think it’s correct dose for you?

Thanks in advance,

Sue

MIKKI:

You want to know my numbers now that I'm on replacement meds...?

T3F (230-430) 500

T4F (.08-1.8) 1.8

TSH .01

So...you see what happens when someone is treated...not always, but you can see how VERY different it is from what the docs say.

<http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=96627>

[Guest guest]

> LOL don't I know it!! The twins are 20 months and I also have a

son who will be 4 next month and a 10 year old daughter and a full

time job ... I have learned to be very efficient with my time!!!

I'm pretty confident of having a fairly nutritious diet but I

haven't exactly been paying attention to the iodine and selenium

levels of my food! I am making some dietary changes to try to lower

my cholesterol, but we already do most of what they suggest! The

twins have been both sleeping through the month for over a year but

I still don't get enough sleep ... I have a hard time winding down

at night ... I'm working on that too!

>

> I think I had my antibodies tested a few years ago and the results

were negative, but it's definitely something to ask for a repeat

when I see the new doc. I rarely salt my food and I don't know if

the sodium I get from other foods is iodized or not, it's just

something I've never thought about I guess!

>

> Mikki

>

I am making some dietary changes to try to lower my cholesterol,HYPO

flag..I have a feeling your cholesterol will lower when you are on

proper meds and proper thyroid levels..

I have 22 months between my boys..so til the end of July I now have

a 10 year old and two 9 year old boys.. I tell you they are my

exercise program all rolled into one..I don't know how you work

fulltime.. I tried and ended up switching to part time after a few

months and still do only part time..not sure how much is thyroid and

how much is a house full of little ones for you.. oh well enjoy them

while you can..I am proof that you can survive and can get back to a

regular sleep schedule..

Kats3boys

[Guest guest]

> Kat you are wonderful!!! But I think you might be confusing me

and one of the other new people as my Endo

> 1. had to be badgered into running further tests based on the 2.9

> 2. has not prescribed anything for me. I found an

OTC " nutritional supplement " that he said wouldn't hurt, but I'm not

on any replacement therapy. I'd surely like to be though!!!!

>

> Thanks for the further information, it confirms how I feel on the

inside for sure!!! I am definitely saving your post just in case I

start replacement, I'm hoping for the Armour if I need it, and the

other doctor I made an appointment with has a reputation for using

Armour so I am hopeful, I just have to be patient!

>

> thanks again!

> Mikki

Oops sorry..really need to dye my hair back blonde for moments like

this..I thought you said you had been on meds for 7 weeks..now I see

it is the OTC item you are taking and not soemthing the doctor

ordered..

On the calculated T4 and T3 the doctor ordered did he say why your

T4 and T3 were low? Sounds like more badgering is in order..don't

tell the doc you know it all just play dumb and say what if and why

a lot..if anything he may give you the meds just to shut you up..

And yeah..you do need to find a doc that is willing to start you on

some replacement meds..

Kats3boys

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks It's so frustrating to have these " subclinical " results

that make it hard to get someone to listen to me. This guy actually

told me I had Superwoman Syndrome- that he was tired just listening

to all that I do - as if just because I can FUNCTION it was

unreasonable for me to expect to ENJOY it!

>

> Well PMS has started tonight so it's time for me to shut up before

I convince myself it's all in my head and I'm a total loser for even

thinking it might not just be a " willpower " or " discipline "

issue... ::sigh:: I just LOVE this time of month .... NOT!!!!

>

> thanks again for the support, it means a lot to me!

>

> MIkki

>

The difference between subclinical hypo and subclinical hyper..PMS

time I say go take a baseball bat to the side of his head..force

feed him some ATD's( anti thyroid drugs) until he becomes

subclinical hypo and then tell him it is all in his head..

Kats3boys

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi E---

> What ³hypo² do you still feel and what can be done if your labs

are showing

> you are adequately and presumably over-medicated to put you over

the MAX

> ranges?

> I am not sure how a doctor deals with that... What are yours and

your docs

> plans?

> I love to know what others are doing ­ it helps me with my own

³plights.¹

> Thanks

> Sue

>

This is from Thyroid hormone resistance..because of all the free

hormone in the system it does not mean the body remembers are is

able to use all of it.. this is where labs and SYMPTOMS come into

play..

HYPER at those levels..fast heart rate.. wieght loss or eating

enough to feed an army and not gaining wieght. Not

sleeping..agitated, anxious, nervous..frequent bowel movements..

You know the list of HYPO symptoms..

If a doc does not know this then you remain undertreated for many

many years.. if you find a doc who understands symptoms and realizes

not everyone fits the lab then you get proper treatment or at least

better quality of care.

Kats3boys