Re: School was Re: Wet Chair!

[Guest guest]

Ah, I see! That's the year we call 'ante-pre-school nursery!

Did anyone see a small piece in the Sunday Times about the problems

young boys have with education? Because most early days teachers are

female, boys are sidelined because they are interested in different

things to girls, and it recommended that boys be in separate classes

from girls. Also said that it could be better if boys started school

at six, not five, due to development differences.

Lesley

----------------------

From: & -Jane

From: Lesley

> Pre-school at 2yr8m? That seems awfully early, in itself. Does

that

> mean he will be going to 'real' school when he is 3yr8m?

No Lesley, he would attend pre-school for 2 years and school at 4y8m.

He is only starting for 2 mornings of 2 1/2 hours each, and he is well

ready

for it, potty training aside.

[Guest guest]

Pete & Lesley Reader wrote:

> Ah, I see! That's the year we call 'ante-pre-school nursery!

>

> Did anyone see a small piece in the Sunday Times about the problems

> young boys have with education? Because most early days teachers are

> female, boys are sidelined because they are interested in different

> things to girls, and it recommended that boys be in separate classes

I didn't see the piece - but I have a friend who is a male infant school

teacher and who loves his job. The LEA are trying to promote him and/or

entice him to teach an older age group - his feeling is that it is so rare to

have a man teaching infants that lots of people feel uncomfortable about it.

There are some silly rules though - if one of the children in his class is

upset/has fallen over etc. - he is not allowed to pick that child up and give

it a cuddle.

http://www.foxstitch.co.uk/

[Guest guest]

Pete & Lesley Reader wrote:

> Ah, I see! That's the year we call 'ante-pre-school nursery!

>

> Did anyone see a small piece in the Sunday Times about the problems

> young boys have with education? Because most early days teachers are

> female, boys are sidelined because they are interested in different

> things to girls, and it recommended that boys be in separate classes

I didn't see the piece - but I have a friend who is a male infant school

teacher and who loves his job. The LEA are trying to promote him and/or

entice him to teach an older age group - his feeling is that it is so rare to

have a man teaching infants that lots of people feel uncomfortable about it.

There are some silly rules though - if one of the children in his class is

upset/has fallen over etc. - he is not allowed to pick that child up and give

it a cuddle.

http://www.foxstitch.co.uk/

[Guest guest]

Steve Biddulph is a huge fan of keeping boys out of school until later. Wonder

how that would go down with the infant schools - yes, we are prepared to accept

your offer of a place for our son, but he won't be taking it up for possibly 2

years.....

Alison

Did anyone see a small piece in the Sunday Times about the problems

young boys have with education? Because most early days teachers are

female, boys are sidelined because they are interested in different

things to girls, and it recommended that boys be in separate classes

from girls. Also said that it could be better if boys started school

[Guest guest]

Steve Biddulph is a huge fan of keeping boys out of school until later. Wonder

how that would go down with the infant schools - yes, we are prepared to accept

your offer of a place for our son, but he won't be taking it up for possibly 2

years.....

Alison

Did anyone see a small piece in the Sunday Times about the problems

young boys have with education? Because most early days teachers are

female, boys are sidelined because they are interested in different

things to girls, and it recommended that boys be in separate classes

from girls. Also said that it could be better if boys started school

[Guest guest]

> Lesley at peterlesley@... wrote:

> Also said that it could be better if boys started school

> at six, not five, due to development differences.

I remember there was some research a while back that said it was better for

all children (regardless of sex) if they didn't start formal schooling until

they were 6. Can't remember anything about it other than that though -

anyone else know?

Jenni

(& Gethyn) nearly 17yrs, Mari 3yrs (HB), Babi Bach exp.09/2001

" This Day Will Never Dawn Again "

[Guest guest]

> Lesley at peterlesley@... wrote:

> Also said that it could be better if boys started school

> at six, not five, due to development differences.

I remember there was some research a while back that said it was better for

all children (regardless of sex) if they didn't start formal schooling until

they were 6. Can't remember anything about it other than that though -

anyone else know?

Jenni

(& Gethyn) nearly 17yrs, Mari 3yrs (HB), Babi Bach exp.09/2001

" This Day Will Never Dawn Again "

[Guest guest]

>Ah, I see! That's the year we call 'ante-pre-school nursery!

>

>Did anyone see a small piece in the Sunday Times about the problems

>young boys have with education? Because most early days teachers are

>female, boys are sidelined because they are interested in different

>things to girls, and it recommended that boys be in separate classes

>from girls. Also said that it could be better if boys started school

>at six, not five, due to development differences.

>

>Lesley

When I did my PGCE both the men on my course were particularly

interested in early years.

One of them, with whom I shared my final teaching practice in a very

challenging placement (3-5 year olds in a sink estate that gets in

the news), was IMHO god's gift to nursery teaching. We both

interviewed for the Coventry pool - I got a job, he didn't and he

didn't find it easy to find one. He eventually 'retired' to look

after his own child when his wife got a deputy headship.

The teacher before the one I took over from when I started work was

also male - and he sounded brilliant too.

I think that socially it was hard for them and that was before the

'all men are potential paedophiles' view became officially acceptable.

IIRC the difference between us and other countries is the *formal*

aspect of the schooling - it is not that children stay at home with

parents full time until they are 6 in other countries. We just don't

seem to have grasped the notion of providing a suitable environment

with proper input from adults... I remember one of the nursery nurses

I worked with saying half way through the year - " They seem to have

learned a lot, but we haven't taught them anything " And evidently it

is still the same - one of DS1s playgroups attracted the complaint

from Ofsted that there was a lack of effective questioning techniques

with children using the sand and water - exactly the kind of thing I

was trying to get the staff to do 15 years ago.

(DH's nephew is six, bright and already hates school. His mother was

complaining about how pushy they are...but also concerned that she

might not be able to get her daughter in!)

--

jennifer@...

Vaudin

[Guest guest]

I did some looking into this after I read Steve Biddulph: IIRC, although

schools like you to send them just before 5, they don't legally have to

start school until the September *following* their 5th birthday.

As DS was born in September, this means he wouldn't have to start school

till he's 6!!

Although we think, on balance, that we'll probably home educate all the

little ones till 8ish anyway, unless early years education policy is changed

enormously...

Vicki

http://www.plushpants.co.uk

> Steve Biddulph is a huge fan of keeping boys out of school until later.

Wonder how that would go down with the infant schools - yes, we are prepared

to accept your offer of a place for our son, but he won't be taking it up

for possibly 2 years.....

>

[Guest guest]

I did some looking into this after I read Steve Biddulph: IIRC, although

schools like you to send them just before 5, they don't legally have to

start school until the September *following* their 5th birthday.

As DS was born in September, this means he wouldn't have to start school

till he's 6!!

Although we think, on balance, that we'll probably home educate all the

little ones till 8ish anyway, unless early years education policy is changed

enormously...

Vicki

http://www.plushpants.co.uk

> Steve Biddulph is a huge fan of keeping boys out of school until later.

Wonder how that would go down with the infant schools - yes, we are prepared

to accept your offer of a place for our son, but he won't be taking it up

for possibly 2 years.....

>

[Guest guest]

I did some looking into this after I read Steve Biddulph: IIRC, although

schools like you to send them just before 5, they don't legally have to

start school until the September *following* their 5th birthday.

As DS was born in September, this means he wouldn't have to start school

till he's 6!!

Although we think, on balance, that we'll probably home educate all the

little ones till 8ish anyway, unless early years education policy is changed

enormously...

Vicki

http://www.plushpants.co.uk

> Steve Biddulph is a huge fan of keeping boys out of school until later.

Wonder how that would go down with the infant schools - yes, we are prepared

to accept your offer of a place for our son, but he won't be taking it up

for possibly 2 years.....

>

[Guest guest]

When working at UMIST I did a project on A Level equivalence for Europe - ie

what standard of education had European students reached at the end of their

formal school education in comparison with UK standards. It was quite

complex, but it seemed that students from Scandinavian countries

(particularly Norway IIRC) performed far better in tests at the beginning of

the 1st year of UK university than UK students. I didn't look in detail at

education systems from early years up, to compare between countries, but I

seem to recall from the bumph sent to me by various education departments

that children from Scandinavian countries commonly start school at ?7ish -

and I certainly remember that, when I grew up in Germany, the kids all

worked half a day only.

Vicki

http://www.plushpants.co.uk

>

> I remember there was some research a while back that said it was better

for

> all children (regardless of sex) if they didn't start formal schooling

until

> they were 6. Can't remember anything about it other than that though -

> anyone else know?

[Guest guest]

When working at UMIST I did a project on A Level equivalence for Europe - ie

what standard of education had European students reached at the end of their

formal school education in comparison with UK standards. It was quite

complex, but it seemed that students from Scandinavian countries

(particularly Norway IIRC) performed far better in tests at the beginning of

the 1st year of UK university than UK students. I didn't look in detail at

education systems from early years up, to compare between countries, but I

seem to recall from the bumph sent to me by various education departments

that children from Scandinavian countries commonly start school at ?7ish -

and I certainly remember that, when I grew up in Germany, the kids all

worked half a day only.

Vicki

http://www.plushpants.co.uk

>

> I remember there was some research a while back that said it was better

for

> all children (regardless of sex) if they didn't start formal schooling

until

> they were 6. Can't remember anything about it other than that though -

> anyone else know?

[Guest guest]

When working at UMIST I did a project on A Level equivalence for Europe - ie

what standard of education had European students reached at the end of their

formal school education in comparison with UK standards. It was quite

complex, but it seemed that students from Scandinavian countries

(particularly Norway IIRC) performed far better in tests at the beginning of

the 1st year of UK university than UK students. I didn't look in detail at

education systems from early years up, to compare between countries, but I

seem to recall from the bumph sent to me by various education departments

that children from Scandinavian countries commonly start school at ?7ish -

and I certainly remember that, when I grew up in Germany, the kids all

worked half a day only.

Vicki

http://www.plushpants.co.uk

>

> I remember there was some research a while back that said it was better

for

> all children (regardless of sex) if they didn't start formal schooling

until

> they were 6. Can't remember anything about it other than that though -

> anyone else know?

[Guest guest]

<

>

Another rule is that they are not allowed to put sun lotion on the child... (so

it is better that the child gets sunburned if the parents have forgotten one

morning) I know that all these rules are about pheadoafiles (Sp?) and not

letting things happen to children but I do think at times they come in the way

of people simply being human and doing what is sensible and right in certain

situations (but no I do not have a better suggestion as to what to do instead)

Lonnie Phoebe & Eloisa's mama

& expecting a Christmas delivery...

My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what you

start.

So far today, I have finished 2 bags of chips and a Chocolate cake.

I feel better already.

Re: School was Re: Wet Chair!

Pete & Lesley Reader wrote:

> Ah, I see! That's the year we call 'ante-pre-school nursery!

>

> Did anyone see a small piece in the Sunday Times about the problems

> young boys have with education? Because most early days teachers are

> female, boys are sidelined because they are interested in different

> things to girls, and it recommended that boys be in separate classes

I didn't see the piece - but I have a friend who is a male infant school

teacher and who loves his job. The LEA are trying to promote him and/or

entice him to teach an older age group - his feeling is that it is so rare to

have a man teaching infants that lots of people feel uncomfortable about it.

There are some silly rules though - if one of the children in his class is

upset/has fallen over etc. - he is not allowed to pick that child up and give

it a cuddle.

http://www.foxstitch.co.uk/

[Guest guest]

<

>

Another rule is that they are not allowed to put sun lotion on the child... (so

it is better that the child gets sunburned if the parents have forgotten one

morning) I know that all these rules are about pheadoafiles (Sp?) and not

letting things happen to children but I do think at times they come in the way

of people simply being human and doing what is sensible and right in certain

situations (but no I do not have a better suggestion as to what to do instead)

Lonnie Phoebe & Eloisa's mama

& expecting a Christmas delivery...

My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what you

start.

So far today, I have finished 2 bags of chips and a Chocolate cake.

I feel better already.

Re: School was Re: Wet Chair!

Pete & Lesley Reader wrote:

> Ah, I see! That's the year we call 'ante-pre-school nursery!

>

> Did anyone see a small piece in the Sunday Times about the problems

> young boys have with education? Because most early days teachers are

> female, boys are sidelined because they are interested in different

> things to girls, and it recommended that boys be in separate classes

I didn't see the piece - but I have a friend who is a male infant school

teacher and who loves his job. The LEA are trying to promote him and/or

entice him to teach an older age group - his feeling is that it is so rare to

have a man teaching infants that lots of people feel uncomfortable about it.

There are some silly rules though - if one of the children in his class is

upset/has fallen over etc. - he is not allowed to pick that child up and give

it a cuddle.

http://www.foxstitch.co.uk/

[Guest guest]

In message 3B1B842B.19916F38@...>, Dick

D@...> writes

> his feeling is that it is so rare to

>have a man teaching infants that lots of people feel uncomfortable about it.

>There are some silly rules though

The college I went to lost a couple of good men from their PGCE primary

course. They were both treated so appallingly by their placement

schools that they left rather than face the flak (one of them was told

by the deputy head that he had to be a pedophile to want to teach the

infant age group).

And yet the teacher who most stuck in my mind (and was really supportive

went I decided to do ITT) was male (and now deputy head at the school

where Clare Short's Brother is head teacher....)

--

Helen Armfield

helen@...

[Guest guest]

In message 3B1B842B.19916F38@...>, Dick

D@...> writes

> his feeling is that it is so rare to

>have a man teaching infants that lots of people feel uncomfortable about it.

>There are some silly rules though

The college I went to lost a couple of good men from their PGCE primary

course. They were both treated so appallingly by their placement

schools that they left rather than face the flak (one of them was told

by the deputy head that he had to be a pedophile to want to teach the

infant age group).

And yet the teacher who most stuck in my mind (and was really supportive

went I decided to do ITT) was male (and now deputy head at the school

where Clare Short's Brother is head teacher....)

--

Helen Armfield

helen@...

[Guest guest]

In message 3B1B842B.19916F38@...>, Dick

D@...> writes

> his feeling is that it is so rare to

>have a man teaching infants that lots of people feel uncomfortable about it.

>There are some silly rules though

The college I went to lost a couple of good men from their PGCE primary

course. They were both treated so appallingly by their placement

schools that they left rather than face the flak (one of them was told

by the deputy head that he had to be a pedophile to want to teach the

infant age group).

And yet the teacher who most stuck in my mind (and was really supportive

went I decided to do ITT) was male (and now deputy head at the school

where Clare Short's Brother is head teacher....)

--

Helen Armfield

helen@...

[Guest guest]

In message <002f01c0ed09$87711e80$491f86d9@snoopey>, Vicki Portman

vicki@...> writes

>Although we think, on balance, that we'll probably home educate all the

>little ones till 8ish anyway, unless early years education policy is changed

>enormously...

My local home ed. group has quite a coterie who are doing just this with

their boys - although I think one or two may have a problem persuading

their children into school when they want to send them (they've realised

just what fun HE can be!!).

DD1 did originally go to school (at 4y 2 1/2 mths) and a term later was

so stressed that her excema had returned with a vengeance and we pulled

her! She was more than ready academically - but she was (and is!) a

live wire and one of life's questioners, and having her questions

unanswered and being expected to sit still for long periods of time just

wasn't her.

I'm afraid I agree about the early years curriculum - overly concerned

with outward shows of learning as the sole proof of ability. But only

as long as the display comes in an acceptable form (ability to

understand and question is often taken as showing a lack of

understanding at 7 but is expected at 11!!).

--

Helen Armfield

helen@...

[Guest guest]

In message <002f01c0ed09$87711e80$491f86d9@snoopey>, Vicki Portman

vicki@...> writes

>Although we think, on balance, that we'll probably home educate all the

>little ones till 8ish anyway, unless early years education policy is changed

>enormously...

My local home ed. group has quite a coterie who are doing just this with

their boys - although I think one or two may have a problem persuading

their children into school when they want to send them (they've realised

just what fun HE can be!!).

DD1 did originally go to school (at 4y 2 1/2 mths) and a term later was

so stressed that her excema had returned with a vengeance and we pulled

her! She was more than ready academically - but she was (and is!) a

live wire and one of life's questioners, and having her questions

unanswered and being expected to sit still for long periods of time just

wasn't her.

I'm afraid I agree about the early years curriculum - overly concerned

with outward shows of learning as the sole proof of ability. But only

as long as the display comes in an acceptable form (ability to

understand and question is often taken as showing a lack of

understanding at 7 but is expected at 11!!).

--

Helen Armfield

helen@...

[Guest guest]

In message <002f01c0ed09$87711e80$491f86d9@snoopey>, Vicki Portman

vicki@...> writes

>Although we think, on balance, that we'll probably home educate all the

>little ones till 8ish anyway, unless early years education policy is changed

>enormously...

My local home ed. group has quite a coterie who are doing just this with

their boys - although I think one or two may have a problem persuading

their children into school when they want to send them (they've realised

just what fun HE can be!!).

DD1 did originally go to school (at 4y 2 1/2 mths) and a term later was

so stressed that her excema had returned with a vengeance and we pulled

her! She was more than ready academically - but she was (and is!) a

live wire and one of life's questioners, and having her questions

unanswered and being expected to sit still for long periods of time just

wasn't her.

I'm afraid I agree about the early years curriculum - overly concerned

with outward shows of learning as the sole proof of ability. But only

as long as the display comes in an acceptable form (ability to

understand and question is often taken as showing a lack of

understanding at 7 but is expected at 11!!).

--

Helen Armfield

helen@...

[Guest guest]

At DS's nursery they are not allowed to examine a child's head for

nits (even if he/she is scratching) as it is an infringement of their

personal liberty. This is despite having to change nappies and wipe

their bottoms several times a day. I thought that rather odd!?

phine

(Mum to 3.5 & Ben 2.5, Cambridge NCT)

>

> Another rule is that they are not allowed to put sun lotion on the

child... (so it is better that the child gets sunburned if the

parents have forgotten one morning) I know that all these rules are

about pheadoafiles (Sp?) and not letting things happen to children but

I do think at times they come in the way of people simply being human

and doing what is sensible and right in certain situations (but no I

do not have a better suggestion as to what to do instead)

[Guest guest]

At DS's nursery they are not allowed to examine a child's head for

nits (even if he/she is scratching) as it is an infringement of their

personal liberty. This is despite having to change nappies and wipe

their bottoms several times a day. I thought that rather odd!?

phine

(Mum to 3.5 & Ben 2.5, Cambridge NCT)

>

> Another rule is that they are not allowed to put sun lotion on the

child... (so it is better that the child gets sunburned if the

parents have forgotten one morning) I know that all these rules are

about pheadoafiles (Sp?) and not letting things happen to children but

I do think at times they come in the way of people simply being human

and doing what is sensible and right in certain situations (but no I

do not have a better suggestion as to what to do instead)

[Guest guest]

At DS's nursery they are not allowed to examine a child's head for

nits (even if he/she is scratching) as it is an infringement of their

personal liberty. This is despite having to change nappies and wipe

their bottoms several times a day. I thought that rather odd!?

phine

(Mum to 3.5 & Ben 2.5, Cambridge NCT)

>

> Another rule is that they are not allowed to put sun lotion on the

child... (so it is better that the child gets sunburned if the

parents have forgotten one morning) I know that all these rules are

about pheadoafiles (Sp?) and not letting things happen to children but

I do think at times they come in the way of people simply being human

and doing what is sensible and right in certain situations (but no I

do not have a better suggestion as to what to do instead)