Re: Re: THYROMINE Question

[Guest guest]

There is also Cytomel, which is synthetic T3, to add to your T4 synthetic.

I wish that I could have continued to have taken all Armour Thyroid, since

it supposedly fits into the little cellular thyroid receptors in our bodies

better than anything, but the proportion of T3 was just way too much for me,

over a lot of time, and raising the dose on up. I was on Armour for about a

yr, but when I kept it at 120 mgs for about 3 to 4 months, here came a 160

heart rate, a lot of sweating, etc....so this was way too much T3 for me,

once it all got going down to the receptors and saturated all the known

places that it goes. Some people have such cellular resistance that some

people have been known to take up to 10 grains of it without batting an

eyelash, in order to feel well, but that is a rare person, and it certainly

isn't me, lol.

Re: THYROMINE Question

> Ok, this is in line with what I was going to post: Male, 40's,

> started on Levothy generic in May 06 after a year of sedintary

> behavior, not being able to walk more than 1/2 hour without getting

> wiped out for a few days-

> , after 3 months no effect, but THS levels down to 4.6 or so. Went

> OFF the 100, down to 50 again, and it helped get me moving-??? then

> back to 100 SYNTHROID so I could get OUT and work a little bit- I can

> do 2-3 days of minor labor, but the 4th day I CRASH bigtime.

>

> I am thinking about Armour, - I hear the pigs hormone had helped alot

> of people.-

>

> I told my doctor I was going to apply for SSI, and he said I cant get

> it because thyroid is 'no big deal' but I cannot hold any kind of

> steady job, lol, and the synthroid helped, but not the levo, etc

> etc....

>

> So Armour is the next thing on the list@ Synthroid is helping a

> little bit, Im 30% functional, but thats NOT ENOUGH!!!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRR

>

> I go a bit nuts sometimes, this is like PARKINSONS disease, and time

> and $$ are running out!!

>

>

> What other meds are available? Levo, Sythroid, Armour....??

>

> Thanks

[Guest guest]

Hi , what is the ratio of T3 to T4 with armour and what “should” it be.

I seem to do well on lots of T3 so maybe Armour will be my optimal treatment.

Thanks,

sue

[Guest guest]

Right, so we had you at 180 mcg equivalent (100+(4*20)) which would be 2.5 grains or 150mcg Armour. I'll see what links I can find. Here's one to start with...

http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000016.htm

1 grain (60 mg) of Armour thyroid contains 9 mcg of T3 and 38 mcg of T4. Notice how we are already talking in terms of micrograms (mcg), just like with Synthroid. We are almost ready to compare apples with apples. OK, remember how T3 is approximately four times as potent as T4? Good! Multiply the 9 mcg of T3 times 4 and add that to the 38 mcg of T4:

36 mcg (9 mcg of T3 times 4)+ 38 mcg of T4---------------------------------- 74 mcg

1 grain (60 mg) of Armour equals approximately 74 mcg of T4 (Synthroid)

so the charts you guys use put me at WAY underdosed but the Armour site has it equivalent of 1.5 grains to 150 Levo which is close to the total med I was on.

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[Guest guest]

Here you go Sue, straight from the Armour website. This is the prescribing information and the amounts are in the first paragraph... Judy

http://www.armourthyroid.com/armourthyroid_pi.pdf

so the charts you guys use put me at WAY underdosed but the Armour site has it equivalent of 1.5 grains to 150 Levo which is close to the total med I was on.

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[Guest guest]

That is so weird... But thanks, Judy.

What is Eltroxin?

Thanks!

sue

Here you go Sue, straight from the Armour website. This is the prescribing information and the amounts are in the first paragraph... Judy

http://www.armourthyroid.com/armourthyroid_pi.pdf

[Guest guest]

I think anything over 2 grains would be WAY too much T3—I am nearly sweatin’ here!

I realize I am in Texas but the A/C is on...

So, I guess I will be best to add in straight T4?

sue

Right, so we had you at 180 mcg equivalent (100+(4*20)) which would be 2.5 grains or 150mcg Armour. I'll see what links I can find. Here's one to start with...

[Guest guest]

What #s do you find there because this is where the info comes from? This is the standardized dose of Armour. Maybe you are talking about the conversion charts somewhere on there, when converting to various other combos to Armour equivalency? If you are taking two grains of Armour, it's going to be 76 mcgs of T4 with 18 mcgs of T3, and so on.....

Re: Re: THYROMINE Question

Whoa, wait a sec. I just reread this and looked at the numbers — 1 grain of armour is ONLY 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3? That seems low... Do you have a link? I keep finding totally different numbers on the Armour site itself.Thanks,sue

Armour is 38 mcgs of T4 to 9 mcgs of T3 in one grain of Armour. The pig runs a higher ratio of T4 to T3 than we normally do. We're going to vary in our needs because different people's body tissues require different amts, even different tissues within the same person. There are so many variables here, simply because we're all so different and the fact that many of us have sustained tissue damage, i.e., cellular resistance in SOME areas of the body, but not in others. That's why it seems to take so much time to find out what each one of our "sweet spot" is. I haven't quite found mine yet, but that probably has to do with other hormone balancing, adrenals, etc...In all this time, I still haven't taken the plunge to do the adrenal testing, but that may be coming soon, hopefully.

[Guest guest]

Sue

How much Armour are you taking, not # of pills, but dosage amt in a day?

Re: Re: THYROMINE Question

Hi Judy,The first few days, no difference but I feel this: warmer yet tired-er. So I guess the higher T3 ratio is making me hot but the dip in T4 would make me feel sluggish? I am just getting over a nasty virus so it’s hard to tell..i was down and out most of last week.Sue

[Guest guest]

If you want an equivalency of the dose you were on, you would be taking approximately 2 grains (120 mgs) of Armour, with adding maybe 25 more mcgs of T4 OR just taking approximately 2 and 1/2 grains of Armour without anything else added to it. The 2 and 1/2 grains of Armour, alone, would give you the closest to what you had with that little 3 mcgs extra of T3 in it, as a bonus to add to what you were taking. 2 and 1/2 grains is 150 mgs of Armour. It does give you about 4 or so mcgs LESS of T4, however. If it suits your body, then why not have that instead? For me, that much T3, after 3 to 4 months on even less T3 direct, than that, sent me into a 160 pulse rate, but you have been taking that much direct T3 already, except for that tiny amt of 3 mcgs of T3 that will be added with that dosing schedule. Adding the former thing of synthetic T4 to only 2 grains of Armour would mean that you are getting around 2 mcgs LESS of direct T3.

Re: Re: THYROMINE Question

Yep, I remember that Judy but I was on .100 mcg levoxyl PLUS 20 mcg Cytomel.so the charts you guys use put me at WAY underdosed but the Armour site has it equivalent of 1.5 grains to 150 Levo which is close to the total med I was on. sue

[Guest guest]

Eltroxin is synthetic T4, Levothyroxine. It's Canadian and I'm running out!!!

What is Eltroxin?

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[Guest guest]

The AC is ON????? CRIPES! I'm wearing a carhart sweatshirt, carhart wool jacket here at work! YEEEHA, I'm stayin at your house!LOL SpiffJustYourTypeDTP wrote: I think anything over 2 grains would be WAY too much T3—I am nearly sweatin’ here!I realize I am in Texas but the A/C is on... So, I guess I will be best to add in straight T4?sueOn 10/17/06 2:23 PM, "Judy P"

<ygroupsjp (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote: Right, so we had you at 180 mcg equivalent (100+(4*20)) which would be 2.5 grains or 150mcg Armour. I'll see what links I can find. Here's one to start with...

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[Guest guest]

This is another brand of synthetic T4, and is the one I take for the last yr or so, along with the 30 mgs of Armour.

Re: Re: THYROMINE Question

That is so weird... But thanks, Judy.What is Eltroxin?Thanks!sue

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

My doc started me on 90 grams, which is 1.5 grains of Armour.

For the past 4 years I was on .88 to .100 levoxyl and then in April added in 20 mcg of Cytomel and felt fine but my metabolism is still totally stuck and my hair still comes out easily.

sue

Sue

How much Armour are you taking, not # of pills, but dosage amt in a day?

..

[Guest guest]

Eltroxin is synthetic T4, Levothyroxine. It's Canadian and I'm running out!!!

Can you get more?

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

It all makes sense numberwise, but I feel like I have more “effect” the armour and my doc doesn’t want bloodwork til I have been on this new med (armour) for 8 weeks...

Not sure what I should do.

I feel fine but was sick all last week with a horrible virus/allergies along with my 12 year old daughter and just felt well this weekend which is when I started my very first pill of armour.

sue

If you want an equivalency of the dose you were on, you would be taking approximately 2 grains (120 mgs) of Armour, with adding maybe 25 more mcgs of T4 OR just taking approximately 2 and 1/2 grains of Armour without anything else added to it. The 2 and 1/2 grains of Armour, alone, would give you the closest to what you had with that little 3 mcgs extra of T3 in it, as a bonus to add to what you were taking. 2 and 1/2 grains is 150 mgs of Armour. It does give you about 4 or so mcgs LESS of T4, however. If it suits your body, then why not have that instead? For me, that much T3, after 3 to 4 months on even less T3 direct, than that, sent me into a 160 pulse rate, but you have been taking that much direct T3 already, except for that tiny amt of 3 mcgs of T3 that will be added with that dosing schedule. Adding the former thing of synthetic T4 to only 2 grains of Armour would mean that you are getting around 2 mcgs LESS of direct T3.

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[Guest guest]

OK , a 4.6 TSH is not low enough if the lab ranges are standard. You need to be much closer to 1 unless you have hashi's, then it needs to be totally suppressed. We need to see the results of your blood work with the lab ranges also posted. Hopefully your labs will include the free T3 and free T4 levels, but they may not. There is hope of getting your life back. Finding a good doc who will listen to you and your symptoms and treat accordingly is important, but not easy.jasonmountainview wrote: Ok, this is in line with what I was going to post: Male, 40's, started on Levothy generic in May 06 after a year of sedintary behavior, not being able to walk more than 1/2 hour without getting wiped out for a few days-, after 3 months no effect, but THS levels down to 4.6 or

so. Went OFF the 100, down to 50 again, and it helped get me moving-??? then back to 100 SYNTHROID so I could get OUT and work a little bit- I can do 2-3 days of minor labor, but the 4th day I CRASH bigtime.I am thinking about Armour, - I hear the pigs hormone had helped alot of people.- I told my doctor I was going to apply for SSI, and he said I cant get it because thyroid is 'no big deal' but I cannot hold any kind of steady job, lol, and the synthroid helped, but not the levo, etc etc.... So Armour is the next thing on the list@ Synthroid is helping a little bit, Im 30% functional, but thats NOT ENOUGH!!!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRI go a bit nuts sometimes, this is like PARKINSONS disease, and time and $$ are running out!! What other meds are available? Levo, Sythroid, Armour....??ThanksKathy

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[Guest guest]

uh yep, the A/C is on — it’s 91 degrees today — high humidty... Can’t say as that’s my “comfort zone” at all!can’t wait to get the H out of texas. ...sue///////////////

I'll trade you Sue...I love that kind of weather! I'm in NJ now and it's cold and nasty!

I was born and raised in coastal NC and then spent a 4 year bit in NW FL....ah how I miss it!

____________________________ in *cool again* Jerseyopen proximal rny 9/18/015'9"-31yo297/168I'm not a doc-in real life or otherwise.

[Guest guest]

Yep, our bills are over $300 a month for A/C from June thru October...it’s NUTZ and very uncomforatble.

sue

I'm out of Texas and in Kansas now. It's 73 degrees, but there's a cold front coming and I can't wait!!! My August power bill in Texas was over $300.00 and I won't miss that either. Between the Armour and the hot flashes, I'm still hot all the time... Judy

[Guest guest]

In all seriousness, I would trade you in a “new york minute!” I am born and raised in upstate NY and can’t stand it when we have to run and pay for air conditioning from late February through November and later. 91 degress in October... Can you imagine what our “summers” are like? Draught, water restrictions, cracked foundations, brush fires, etc.

I will take 3 months of nasty cold (<--I actually love it) and snow and rust and winds and icy roads anytime in exchange for this.

Problem is we can’t just pick up and move with a 12 year old daughter with Soliosis and no jobs — so-------we are looking!

We have a smallish 4 bedroom near all the schools and shopping – whatcha got there in NJ? Let’s trade!

Sue

uh yep, the A/C is on — it’s 91 degrees today — high humidty... Can’t say as that’s my “comfort zone” at all!

can’t wait to get the H out of texas. ...

sue

///////////////

I'll trade you Sue...I love that kind of weather! I'm in NJ now and it's cold and nasty!

I was born and raised in coastal NC and then spent a 4 year bit in NW FL....ah how I miss it!

____________________________

in *cool again* Jersey

open proximal rny 9/18/01

5'9 " -31yo

297/168

I'm not a doc-in real life or otherwise.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jackie,

Believe me, if it were not for my 12 year old daughter, we would be gone today.

I came out to Texas from upstate NY for a job transfer in august of 1987. My son was born in July of 1988.

I was totally GEOGRAPHICALLY “retarded” and had NO idea what the weather was like out here, or the allergens, or the sprawled out roads with no place a kid can walk, etc.

Now, 18 years later, he has graduated High School with all his lifetime friends – that is something I promised we would do — stay in Texas until he graduated H.S.

He’s now in Boston — he high-tailed it out of Texas first chance he got LOL! It’s really hot here and I am blonde with fair skin, burn easy, heat intolerant all my life, etc.

Anyway...... My daughter is now 12 and getting “attached” to some friends so we want to make the move as soon as possible without as you say, making it VERY VERY STRESSFUL.

I have been “cleaning house” and giving a lot of “stuff” away, selling stuff on ebay, had a garage sale, etc. and am trying to get us ‘ready’ for when we take that leap.

I have waited a loooooooon 18 years and at 48, I really want to live out my life in a much cooler place that has the glory of the Autumn leaves, the freshness of the April Spring air and yes, the snowy nights at Christmastime... Those are memories for me now and I want to make it more than that.

Sue:)

Sue, 

You are very wise to know your limits as far as moving, with no jobs, etc... We did it once, BAD move, and VERY stressful!

Jackie

In all seriousness, I would trade you in a “new york minute!” I am born and raised in upstate NY and can’t stand it when we have to run and pay for air conditioning from late February through November and later. 91 degress in October... Can you imagine what our “summers” are like? Draught, water restrictions, cracked foundations, brush fires, etc.

I will take 3 months of nasty cold (<--I actually love it) and snow and rust and winds and icy roads anytime in exchange for this.

Problem is we can’t just pick up and move with a 12 year old daughter with Soliosis and no jobs — so-------we are looking!

We have a smallish 4 bedroom near all the schools and shopping – whatcha got there in NJ? Let’s trade!

Sue

[Guest guest]

I come in to work today and actually could take off my jacket! I guess enuf people howled and they finally got the heat thing fixed. I guess where the heat was, was a closed office and if it got too hot in there, they'd turn the heat down.....for the whole place. That's just plain bone-headed. Have 2 or 3 different thermometers for cryin in the beer, I mean seriously. Sometimes I wonder how this place operates! SpiffJustYourTypeDTP wrote: On 10/17/06 4:01 PM, "DerSpiff" <mzspiff (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote: The AC is ON????? CRIPES! I'm wearing a carhart sweatshirt, carhart wool jacket here at work! YEEEHA, I'm stayin at your house!LOL Spiffuh yep, the A/C is on — it’s 91 degrees today — high humidty... Can’t say as that’s my “comfort zone” at all!can’t wait to get the H out of texas. ...sue

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[Guest guest]

I come in to work today and actually could take off my jacket! I guess enuf people howled and they finally got the heat thing fixed. I guess where the heat was, was a closed office and if it got too hot in there, they'd turn the heat down.....for the whole place. That's just plain bone-headed. Have 2 or 3 different thermometers for cryin in the beer, I mean seriously. Sometimes I wonder how this place operates! SpiffJustYourTypeDTP wrote: On 10/17/06 4:01 PM, "DerSpiff" <mzspiff (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote: The AC is ON????? CRIPES! I'm wearing a carhart sweatshirt, carhart wool jacket here at work! YEEEHA, I'm stayin at your house!LOL Spiffuh yep, the A/C is on — it’s 91 degrees today — high humidty... Can’t say as that’s my “comfort zone” at all!can’t wait to get the H out of texas. ...sue

All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

I come in to work today and actually could take off my jacket! I guess enuf people howled and they finally got the heat thing fixed. I guess where the heat was, was a closed office and if it got too hot in there, they'd turn the heat down.....for the whole place. That's just plain bone-headed. Have 2 or 3 different thermometers for cryin in the beer, I mean seriously. Sometimes I wonder how this place operates! SpiffJustYourTypeDTP wrote: On 10/17/06 4:01 PM, "DerSpiff" <mzspiff (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote: The AC is ON????? CRIPES! I'm wearing a carhart sweatshirt, carhart wool jacket here at work! YEEEHA, I'm stayin at your house!LOL Spiffuh yep, the A/C is on — it’s 91 degrees today — high humidty... Can’t say as that’s my “comfort zone” at all!can’t wait to get the H out of texas. ...sue

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