Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 This post is very similar to an eariler post. We hate these shoes!!! My dd has been trying to wear these shoes for 10 days now and its not getting any better, in fact worse. The first couple days she dealt with them then she figured out how to kick out of them. We went back to the Dr and they put something in her heel to keep her foot from slipping out so much and after that all she does is scream. She is cranky all day and at night she can't sleep. We are having a rough time and want to give up. We feel like bad parents for keeping the shoes on making her scream and we feel like bad parents when we take off the shoes because we know she is in pain. Help!!!! We now cry right along side of her. How do other parents deal with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 Hi Pam, The stuff in the heel is the plastizode insert that was essential with the old style Markells. Some brace shops are still using it with the new ones, we haven't found they're necessary but some little feet might stay in better with them, at least at first. It was however, the part of the shoe that pressed into Darbi's heel that made the sore (remember though, I wasn't getting her foot in all the way when this happened so it wasn't necessarily the plastizode that made the sore). What concerns me is that she's screaming so much. A couple things should be considered and first and foremost is to question if her feet are fully corrected (bilateral right?). So many babies have come out of casts and into the DBB/FAB recently and had problems simply because the foot wasn't corrected fully in the first place. What kind of dorsiflexion does she have? Do you see any creases in the skin on her sole or inside ankle still? How does she hold her feet when relaxed? (some turning in and pointing down when relaxed is normal for babies - if baby is bilateral it's hard to tell what's normal and what's not, unilateral is easier to compare and see how a normal foot looks). When you stand her up (with help of course) do both her heels sit flat on the floor as well as the forefoot? Do you question her correction at all? So many of us think we're being paranoid and disregard what our instincts are telling us - but unless the foot looks about as close to normal as can be, more correction may need to be attained. I know it may seem strange - but a fully corrected foot looks just like a normal foot - albeit a little shorter and fatter... it still looks like it does NOT have a problem as far as turning in and rolling on the side goes. Without seeing signs of pressure sores or blisters, she's crying like that for a reason, and very likely NOT because she just doesn't like the shoes. More questions: * How long is the bar? Have you put it up to her shoulders to see if the heels are the same width apart? There seems to be some question about whether it's heel to heel or bolt hole to bolt hole. Hall the Orthotist from the U of Iowa has said here it's hole to hole, but many of use use heel to heel with very good results so this is something you'll have to figure out what works best for you. Whatever method you use, as long as she's comfortable it's fine. Heel to heel makes for a wider brace and unilateral makes it just a little shorter because one foot isn't at 70 degrees (FYI). * Do you have the last cast? If so, are the shoes set at the same degree of outward rotation the last cast is at? Say the last cast was at 50 degrees, yet the shoes are set at 60 or 70. This isn't going to work. First off - the last cast should be rotated more than 50 degrees. Second - the shoes should be the same as the last cast or it's uncomfortable, to say the least. If there's a discrepancy between cast and shoes the best thing you can do right now is to set the shoes the same as the last cast. So, if the cast is 60 degrees, you can turn the shoes 5 degrees a week and probably get to 70 with no problems. If it's at 50... well, she needs another cast to complete the correction and overcorrect so she can wear the shoes. 20 degrees is too much to turn that foot yourself. Remember, the DBB/FAB is to maintain correction - it does not correct an uncorrected foot at all. * Try putting the shoes on without the bar to see if it's the shoes that are bothering her. Leave them on for a couple of hours without the bar because she might not complain at first, but later if it's indeed the shoes themselves she probably will let you know she's uncomfortable. * Are you 150% sure the heel is seated as far back and down in the shoe as possible? (do you have the new Markell's or the old? The new ones do not have a seam running down the *inside* of the shoe and have a factory padded tongue) Are you pressing the heel into the heel pocket by pointing the toes *up*, bending the knee and SHOVING (lol yes I know, sounds bad) her foot into it? Use your thumb to keep the foot in and tighten the strap. The short straps are difficult to manage with fingertips - someone posted recently about using a vice grip to grasp the strap - if you need to, get one! lol... but don't let the foot slip out between pressing it in and tightening the strap. Try putting the strap into the lower slots in the sides of the boot. * If the heel is seated well, is it pulling up once she's tightened up? Try pulling the tongue down lower than the tops of the boots, and/or not lacing the tops holes. * I assume no signs of sores/blisters. If so, this is good. It doesn't mean that it's not bothering her though. If all else fails and you KNOW she's corrected properly but unsure about her heel sitting flat, go ahead and cut the hole in the back of the shoes so you can see what's going on inside. It will help you know once and for all if her heel is seating properly. I know I'm forgetting something. Let us know how it's going. If, after trying all these things with no improvement I'd take pics and send them off to Dr. Ponseti. Just to confirm that she's corrected fully and that something else isn't going wacky with her feet. Hang in there - it WILL get better. You just need to find out why she's upset with the shoes and fix whatever is causing her distress. Lots of us have BTDT - I know it's hard right now but will soon be a distant memory and everyone will be happy :~} You should NOT have to *deal* with this at all. Something isn't right - it needs to be addressed and remedied. Then no one will have to deal with anything other than remembering to take them off for an hour a day lol. Seriously, she'll be so happy in them you'll forget to let her out and she's already down for the night hehe... Kori Mama of Kenton - 6/98 Merek - 3/00 Darbi - 3/28/03 - Rt. CF - DBB 12hr/d (¨`·.·´¨) `·.¸(¨`·.·´¨) `·.¸.·´ At 10:07 AM 8/2/2004, you wrote: >This post is very similar to an eariler post. We hate these >shoes!!! My dd has been trying to wear these shoes for 10 days now >and its not getting any better, in fact worse. The first couple days >she dealt with them then she figured out how to kick out of them. We >went back to the Dr and they put something in her heel to keep her >foot from slipping out so much and after that all she does is >scream. She is cranky all day and at night she can't sleep. We are >having a rough time and want to give up. We feel like bad parents >for keeping the shoes on making her scream and we feel like bad >parents when we take off the shoes because we know she is in pain. >Help!!!! We now cry right along side of her. How do other parents >deal with this. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 Hi Pam, The stuff in the heel is the plastizode insert that was essential with the old style Markells. Some brace shops are still using it with the new ones, we haven't found they're necessary but some little feet might stay in better with them, at least at first. It was however, the part of the shoe that pressed into Darbi's heel that made the sore (remember though, I wasn't getting her foot in all the way when this happened so it wasn't necessarily the plastizode that made the sore). What concerns me is that she's screaming so much. A couple things should be considered and first and foremost is to question if her feet are fully corrected (bilateral right?). So many babies have come out of casts and into the DBB/FAB recently and had problems simply because the foot wasn't corrected fully in the first place. What kind of dorsiflexion does she have? Do you see any creases in the skin on her sole or inside ankle still? How does she hold her feet when relaxed? (some turning in and pointing down when relaxed is normal for babies - if baby is bilateral it's hard to tell what's normal and what's not, unilateral is easier to compare and see how a normal foot looks). When you stand her up (with help of course) do both her heels sit flat on the floor as well as the forefoot? Do you question her correction at all? So many of us think we're being paranoid and disregard what our instincts are telling us - but unless the foot looks about as close to normal as can be, more correction may need to be attained. I know it may seem strange - but a fully corrected foot looks just like a normal foot - albeit a little shorter and fatter... it still looks like it does NOT have a problem as far as turning in and rolling on the side goes. Without seeing signs of pressure sores or blisters, she's crying like that for a reason, and very likely NOT because she just doesn't like the shoes. More questions: * How long is the bar? Have you put it up to her shoulders to see if the heels are the same width apart? There seems to be some question about whether it's heel to heel or bolt hole to bolt hole. Hall the Orthotist from the U of Iowa has said here it's hole to hole, but many of use use heel to heel with very good results so this is something you'll have to figure out what works best for you. Whatever method you use, as long as she's comfortable it's fine. Heel to heel makes for a wider brace and unilateral makes it just a little shorter because one foot isn't at 70 degrees (FYI). * Do you have the last cast? If so, are the shoes set at the same degree of outward rotation the last cast is at? Say the last cast was at 50 degrees, yet the shoes are set at 60 or 70. This isn't going to work. First off - the last cast should be rotated more than 50 degrees. Second - the shoes should be the same as the last cast or it's uncomfortable, to say the least. If there's a discrepancy between cast and shoes the best thing you can do right now is to set the shoes the same as the last cast. So, if the cast is 60 degrees, you can turn the shoes 5 degrees a week and probably get to 70 with no problems. If it's at 50... well, she needs another cast to complete the correction and overcorrect so she can wear the shoes. 20 degrees is too much to turn that foot yourself. Remember, the DBB/FAB is to maintain correction - it does not correct an uncorrected foot at all. * Try putting the shoes on without the bar to see if it's the shoes that are bothering her. Leave them on for a couple of hours without the bar because she might not complain at first, but later if it's indeed the shoes themselves she probably will let you know she's uncomfortable. * Are you 150% sure the heel is seated as far back and down in the shoe as possible? (do you have the new Markell's or the old? The new ones do not have a seam running down the *inside* of the shoe and have a factory padded tongue) Are you pressing the heel into the heel pocket by pointing the toes *up*, bending the knee and SHOVING (lol yes I know, sounds bad) her foot into it? Use your thumb to keep the foot in and tighten the strap. The short straps are difficult to manage with fingertips - someone posted recently about using a vice grip to grasp the strap - if you need to, get one! lol... but don't let the foot slip out between pressing it in and tightening the strap. Try putting the strap into the lower slots in the sides of the boot. * If the heel is seated well, is it pulling up once she's tightened up? Try pulling the tongue down lower than the tops of the boots, and/or not lacing the tops holes. * I assume no signs of sores/blisters. If so, this is good. It doesn't mean that it's not bothering her though. If all else fails and you KNOW she's corrected properly but unsure about her heel sitting flat, go ahead and cut the hole in the back of the shoes so you can see what's going on inside. It will help you know once and for all if her heel is seating properly. I know I'm forgetting something. Let us know how it's going. If, after trying all these things with no improvement I'd take pics and send them off to Dr. Ponseti. Just to confirm that she's corrected fully and that something else isn't going wacky with her feet. Hang in there - it WILL get better. You just need to find out why she's upset with the shoes and fix whatever is causing her distress. Lots of us have BTDT - I know it's hard right now but will soon be a distant memory and everyone will be happy :~} You should NOT have to *deal* with this at all. Something isn't right - it needs to be addressed and remedied. Then no one will have to deal with anything other than remembering to take them off for an hour a day lol. Seriously, she'll be so happy in them you'll forget to let her out and she's already down for the night hehe... Kori Mama of Kenton - 6/98 Merek - 3/00 Darbi - 3/28/03 - Rt. CF - DBB 12hr/d (¨`·.·´¨) `·.¸(¨`·.·´¨) `·.¸.·´ At 10:07 AM 8/2/2004, you wrote: >This post is very similar to an eariler post. We hate these >shoes!!! My dd has been trying to wear these shoes for 10 days now >and its not getting any better, in fact worse. The first couple days >she dealt with them then she figured out how to kick out of them. We >went back to the Dr and they put something in her heel to keep her >foot from slipping out so much and after that all she does is >scream. She is cranky all day and at night she can't sleep. We are >having a rough time and want to give up. We feel like bad parents >for keeping the shoes on making her scream and we feel like bad >parents when we take off the shoes because we know she is in pain. >Help!!!! We now cry right along side of her. How do other parents >deal with this. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 Hi Pam, The stuff in the heel is the plastizode insert that was essential with the old style Markells. Some brace shops are still using it with the new ones, we haven't found they're necessary but some little feet might stay in better with them, at least at first. It was however, the part of the shoe that pressed into Darbi's heel that made the sore (remember though, I wasn't getting her foot in all the way when this happened so it wasn't necessarily the plastizode that made the sore). What concerns me is that she's screaming so much. A couple things should be considered and first and foremost is to question if her feet are fully corrected (bilateral right?). So many babies have come out of casts and into the DBB/FAB recently and had problems simply because the foot wasn't corrected fully in the first place. What kind of dorsiflexion does she have? Do you see any creases in the skin on her sole or inside ankle still? How does she hold her feet when relaxed? (some turning in and pointing down when relaxed is normal for babies - if baby is bilateral it's hard to tell what's normal and what's not, unilateral is easier to compare and see how a normal foot looks). When you stand her up (with help of course) do both her heels sit flat on the floor as well as the forefoot? Do you question her correction at all? So many of us think we're being paranoid and disregard what our instincts are telling us - but unless the foot looks about as close to normal as can be, more correction may need to be attained. I know it may seem strange - but a fully corrected foot looks just like a normal foot - albeit a little shorter and fatter... it still looks like it does NOT have a problem as far as turning in and rolling on the side goes. Without seeing signs of pressure sores or blisters, she's crying like that for a reason, and very likely NOT because she just doesn't like the shoes. More questions: * How long is the bar? Have you put it up to her shoulders to see if the heels are the same width apart? There seems to be some question about whether it's heel to heel or bolt hole to bolt hole. Hall the Orthotist from the U of Iowa has said here it's hole to hole, but many of use use heel to heel with very good results so this is something you'll have to figure out what works best for you. Whatever method you use, as long as she's comfortable it's fine. Heel to heel makes for a wider brace and unilateral makes it just a little shorter because one foot isn't at 70 degrees (FYI). * Do you have the last cast? If so, are the shoes set at the same degree of outward rotation the last cast is at? Say the last cast was at 50 degrees, yet the shoes are set at 60 or 70. This isn't going to work. First off - the last cast should be rotated more than 50 degrees. Second - the shoes should be the same as the last cast or it's uncomfortable, to say the least. If there's a discrepancy between cast and shoes the best thing you can do right now is to set the shoes the same as the last cast. So, if the cast is 60 degrees, you can turn the shoes 5 degrees a week and probably get to 70 with no problems. If it's at 50... well, she needs another cast to complete the correction and overcorrect so she can wear the shoes. 20 degrees is too much to turn that foot yourself. Remember, the DBB/FAB is to maintain correction - it does not correct an uncorrected foot at all. * Try putting the shoes on without the bar to see if it's the shoes that are bothering her. Leave them on for a couple of hours without the bar because she might not complain at first, but later if it's indeed the shoes themselves she probably will let you know she's uncomfortable. * Are you 150% sure the heel is seated as far back and down in the shoe as possible? (do you have the new Markell's or the old? The new ones do not have a seam running down the *inside* of the shoe and have a factory padded tongue) Are you pressing the heel into the heel pocket by pointing the toes *up*, bending the knee and SHOVING (lol yes I know, sounds bad) her foot into it? Use your thumb to keep the foot in and tighten the strap. The short straps are difficult to manage with fingertips - someone posted recently about using a vice grip to grasp the strap - if you need to, get one! lol... but don't let the foot slip out between pressing it in and tightening the strap. Try putting the strap into the lower slots in the sides of the boot. * If the heel is seated well, is it pulling up once she's tightened up? Try pulling the tongue down lower than the tops of the boots, and/or not lacing the tops holes. * I assume no signs of sores/blisters. If so, this is good. It doesn't mean that it's not bothering her though. If all else fails and you KNOW she's corrected properly but unsure about her heel sitting flat, go ahead and cut the hole in the back of the shoes so you can see what's going on inside. It will help you know once and for all if her heel is seating properly. I know I'm forgetting something. Let us know how it's going. If, after trying all these things with no improvement I'd take pics and send them off to Dr. Ponseti. Just to confirm that she's corrected fully and that something else isn't going wacky with her feet. Hang in there - it WILL get better. You just need to find out why she's upset with the shoes and fix whatever is causing her distress. Lots of us have BTDT - I know it's hard right now but will soon be a distant memory and everyone will be happy :~} You should NOT have to *deal* with this at all. Something isn't right - it needs to be addressed and remedied. Then no one will have to deal with anything other than remembering to take them off for an hour a day lol. Seriously, she'll be so happy in them you'll forget to let her out and she's already down for the night hehe... Kori Mama of Kenton - 6/98 Merek - 3/00 Darbi - 3/28/03 - Rt. CF - DBB 12hr/d (¨`·.·´¨) `·.¸(¨`·.·´¨) `·.¸.·´ At 10:07 AM 8/2/2004, you wrote: >This post is very similar to an eariler post. We hate these >shoes!!! My dd has been trying to wear these shoes for 10 days now >and its not getting any better, in fact worse. The first couple days >she dealt with them then she figured out how to kick out of them. We >went back to the Dr and they put something in her heel to keep her >foot from slipping out so much and after that all she does is >scream. She is cranky all day and at night she can't sleep. We are >having a rough time and want to give up. We feel like bad parents >for keeping the shoes on making her scream and we feel like bad >parents when we take off the shoes because we know she is in pain. >Help!!!! We now cry right along side of her. How do other parents >deal with this. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 I dont have any advice except to listen to your baby. if it has been 10 days maybe you need to give up and go back to the dr. is her bar long enough? maybe her foot isnt as flexable as it needs to be. maybe the foot is rotated out to far. but she is telling you that something is wrong. i had this problem and i gave up and the dr didnt want to see us till out appt, in 3 months. so at our appt recently she got a longer bar, after 5 days of screaming and tylenol and giving her a break she is fine. good luck Allyn Pam ronnellsmom@...> wrote: This post is very similar to an eariler post. We hate these shoes!!! My dd has been trying to wear these shoes for 10 days now and its not getting any better, in fact worse. The first couple days she dealt with them then she figured out how to kick out of them. We went back to the Dr and they put something in her heel to keep her foot from slipping out so much and after that all she does is scream. She is cranky all day and at night she can't sleep. We are having a rough time and want to give up. We feel like bad parents for keeping the shoes on making her scream and we feel like bad parents when we take off the shoes because we know she is in pain. Help!!!! We now cry right along side of her. How do other parents deal with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 You brought up a point I've had a question about - you mention the skin being creased. On both my cf boys (the oldest is 6 yrs.) the skin on the top of their foot, outside edge around the ankle is very excessive and many folds of skin there. When the foot was clubbed of course this skin was stretched out tight but with correction it's all gathered up there, even six years later on my oldest. Does this ever go away? s. Re: Need Help! DBB shoes Hi Pam, The stuff in the heel is the plastizode insert that was essential with the old style Markells. Some brace shops are still using it with the new ones, we haven't found they're necessary but some little feet might stay in better with them, at least at first. It was however, the part of the shoe that pressed into Darbi's heel that made the sore (remember though, I wasn't getting her foot in all the way when this happened so it wasn't necessarily the plastizode that made the sore). What concerns me is that she's screaming so much. A couple things should be considered and first and foremost is to question if her feet are fully corrected (bilateral right?). So many babies have come out of casts and into the DBB/FAB recently and had problems simply because the foot wasn't corrected fully in the first place. What kind of dorsiflexion does she have? Do you see any creases in the skin on her sole or inside ankle still? How does she hold her feet when relaxed? (some turning in and pointing down when relaxed is normal for babies - if baby is bilateral it's hard to tell what's normal and what's not, unilateral is easier to compare and see how a normal foot looks). When you stand her up (with help of course) do both her heels sit flat on the floor as well as the forefoot? Do you question her correction at all? So many of us think we're being paranoid and disregard what our instincts are telling us - but unless the foot looks about as close to normal as can be, more correction may need to be attained. I know it may seem strange - but a fully corrected foot looks just like a normal foot - albeit a little shorter and fatter... it still looks like it does NOT have a problem as far as turning in and rolling on the side goes. Without seeing signs of pressure sores or blisters, she's crying like that for a reason, and very likely NOT because she just doesn't like the shoes. More questions: * How long is the bar? Have you put it up to her shoulders to see if the heels are the same width apart? There seems to be some question about whether it's heel to heel or bolt hole to bolt hole. Hall the Orthotist from the U of Iowa has said here it's hole to hole, but many of use use heel to heel with very good results so this is something you'll have to figure out what works best for you. Whatever method you use, as long as she's comfortable it's fine. Heel to heel makes for a wider brace and unilateral makes it just a little shorter because one foot isn't at 70 degrees (FYI). * Do you have the last cast? If so, are the shoes set at the same degree of outward rotation the last cast is at? Say the last cast was at 50 degrees, yet the shoes are set at 60 or 70. This isn't going to work. First off - the last cast should be rotated more than 50 degrees. Second - the shoes should be the same as the last cast or it's uncomfortable, to say the least. If there's a discrepancy between cast and shoes the best thing you can do right now is to set the shoes the same as the last cast. So, if the cast is 60 degrees, you can turn the shoes 5 degrees a week and probably get to 70 with no problems. If it's at 50... well, she needs another cast to complete the correction and overcorrect so she can wear the shoes. 20 degrees is too much to turn that foot yourself. Remember, the DBB/FAB is to maintain correction - it does not correct an uncorrected foot at all. * Try putting the shoes on without the bar to see if it's the shoes that are bothering her. Leave them on for a couple of hours without the bar because she might not complain at first, but later if it's indeed the shoes themselves she probably will let you know she's uncomfortable. * Are you 150% sure the heel is seated as far back and down in the shoe as possible? (do you have the new Markell's or the old? The new ones do not have a seam running down the *inside* of the shoe and have a factory padded tongue) Are you pressing the heel into the heel pocket by pointing the toes *up*, bending the knee and SHOVING (lol yes I know, sounds bad) her foot into it? Use your thumb to keep the foot in and tighten the strap. The short straps are difficult to manage with fingertips - someone posted recently about using a vice grip to grasp the strap - if you need to, get one! lol... but don't let the foot slip out between pressing it in and tightening the strap. Try putting the strap into the lower slots in the sides of the boot. * If the heel is seated well, is it pulling up once she's tightened up? Try pulling the tongue down lower than the tops of the boots, and/or not lacing the tops holes. * I assume no signs of sores/blisters. If so, this is good. It doesn't mean that it's not bothering her though. If all else fails and you KNOW she's corrected properly but unsure about her heel sitting flat, go ahead and cut the hole in the back of the shoes so you can see what's going on inside. It will help you know once and for all if her heel is seating properly. I know I'm forgetting something. Let us know how it's going. If, after trying all these things with no improvement I'd take pics and send them off to Dr. Ponseti. Just to confirm that she's corrected fully and that something else isn't going wacky with her feet. Hang in there - it WILL get better. You just need to find out why she's upset with the shoes and fix whatever is causing her distress. Lots of us have BTDT - I know it's hard right now but will soon be a distant memory and everyone will be happy :~} You should NOT have to *deal* with this at all. Something isn't right - it needs to be addressed and remedied. Then no one will have to deal with anything other than remembering to take them off for an hour a day lol. Seriously, she'll be so happy in them you'll forget to let her out and she's already down for the night hehe... Kori Mama of Kenton - 6/98 Merek - 3/00 Darbi - 3/28/03 - Rt. CF - DBB 12hr/d (¨`·.·´¨) `·.¸(¨`·.·´¨) `·.¸.·´ At 10:07 AM 8/2/2004, you wrote: >This post is very similar to an eariler post. We hate these >shoes!!! My dd has been trying to wear these shoes for 10 days now >and its not getting any better, in fact worse. The first couple days >she dealt with them then she figured out how to kick out of them. We >went back to the Dr and they put something in her heel to keep her >foot from slipping out so much and after that all she does is >scream. She is cranky all day and at night she can't sleep. We are >having a rough time and want to give up. We feel like bad parents >for keeping the shoes on making her scream and we feel like bad >parents when we take off the shoes because we know she is in pain. >Help!!!! We now cry right along side of her. How do other parents >deal with this. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 I asked Dr. Ponseti about that - he said that it should go away in time. But with her atypical feet who really knows. Chris Re: Need Help! DBB shoes Hi Pam, The stuff in the heel is the plastizode insert that was essential with the old style Markells. Some brace shops are still using it with the new ones, we haven't found they're necessary but some little feet might stay in better with them, at least at first. It was however, the part of the shoe that pressed into Darbi's heel that made the sore (remember though, I wasn't getting her foot in all the way when this happened so it wasn't necessarily the plastizode that made the sore). What concerns me is that she's screaming so much. A couple things should be considered and first and foremost is to question if her feet are fully corrected (bilateral right?). So many babies have come out of casts and into the DBB/FAB recently and had problems simply because the foot wasn't corrected fully in the first place. What kind of dorsiflexion does she have? Do you see any creases in the skin on her sole or inside ankle still? How does she hold her feet when relaxed? (some turning in and pointing down when relaxed is normal for babies - if baby is bilateral it's hard to tell what's normal and what's not, unilateral is easier to compare and see how a normal foot looks). When you stand her up (with help of course) do both her heels sit flat on the floor as well as the forefoot? Do you question her correction at all? So many of us think we're being paranoid and disregard what our instincts are telling us - but unless the foot looks about as close to normal as can be, more correction may need to be attained. I know it may seem strange - but a fully corrected foot looks just like a normal foot - albeit a little shorter and fatter... it still looks like it does NOT have a problem as far as turning in and rolling on the side goes. Without seeing signs of pressure sores or blisters, she's crying like that for a reason, and very likely NOT because she just doesn't like the shoes. More questions: * How long is the bar? Have you put it up to her shoulders to see if the heels are the same width apart? There seems to be some question about whether it's heel to heel or bolt hole to bolt hole. Hall the Orthotist from the U of Iowa has said here it's hole to hole, but many of use use heel to heel with very good results so this is something you'll have to figure out what works best for you. Whatever method you use, as long as she's comfortable it's fine. Heel to heel makes for a wider brace and unilateral makes it just a little shorter because one foot isn't at 70 degrees (FYI). * Do you have the last cast? If so, are the shoes set at the same degree of outward rotation the last cast is at? Say the last cast was at 50 degrees, yet the shoes are set at 60 or 70. This isn't going to work. First off - the last cast should be rotated more than 50 degrees. Second - the shoes should be the same as the last cast or it's uncomfortable, to say the least. If there's a discrepancy between cast and shoes the best thing you can do right now is to set the shoes the same as the last cast. So, if the cast is 60 degrees, you can turn the shoes 5 degrees a week and probably get to 70 with no problems. If it's at 50... well, she needs another cast to complete the correction and overcorrect so she can wear the shoes. 20 degrees is too much to turn that foot yourself. Remember, the DBB/FAB is to maintain correction - it does not correct an uncorrected foot at all. * Try putting the shoes on without the bar to see if it's the shoes that are bothering her. Leave them on for a couple of hours without the bar because she might not complain at first, but later if it's indeed the shoes themselves she probably will let you know she's uncomfortable. * Are you 150% sure the heel is seated as far back and down in the shoe as possible? (do you have the new Markell's or the old? The new ones do not have a seam running down the *inside* of the shoe and have a factory padded tongue) Are you pressing the heel into the heel pocket by pointing the toes *up*, bending the knee and SHOVING (lol yes I know, sounds bad) her foot into it? Use your thumb to keep the foot in and tighten the strap. The short straps are difficult to manage with fingertips - someone posted recently about using a vice grip to grasp the strap - if you need to, get one! lol... but don't let the foot slip out between pressing it in and tightening the strap. Try putting the strap into the lower slots in the sides of the boot. * If the heel is seated well, is it pulling up once she's tightened up? Try pulling the tongue down lower than the tops of the boots, and/or not lacing the tops holes. * I assume no signs of sores/blisters. If so, this is good. It doesn't mean that it's not bothering her though. If all else fails and you KNOW she's corrected properly but unsure about her heel sitting flat, go ahead and cut the hole in the back of the shoes so you can see what's going on inside. It will help you know once and for all if her heel is seating properly. I know I'm forgetting something. Let us know how it's going. If, after trying all these things with no improvement I'd take pics and send them off to Dr. Ponseti. Just to confirm that she's corrected fully and that something else isn't going wacky with her feet. Hang in there - it WILL get better. You just need to find out why she's upset with the shoes and fix whatever is causing her distress. Lots of us have BTDT - I know it's hard right now but will soon be a distant memory and everyone will be happy :~} You should NOT have to *deal* with this at all. Something isn't right - it needs to be addressed and remedied. Then no one will have to deal with anything other than remembering to take them off for an hour a day lol. Seriously, she'll be so happy in them you'll forget to let her out and she's already down for the night hehe... Kori Mama of Kenton - 6/98 Merek - 3/00 Darbi - 3/28/03 - Rt. CF - DBB 12hr/d (¨`·.·´¨) `·.¸(¨`·.·´¨) `·.¸.·´ At 10:07 AM 8/2/2004, you wrote: >This post is very similar to an eariler post. We hate these >shoes!!! My dd has been trying to wear these shoes for 10 days now >and its not getting any better, in fact worse. The first couple days >she dealt with them then she figured out how to kick out of them. We >went back to the Dr and they put something in her heel to keep her >foot from slipping out so much and after that all she does is >scream. She is cranky all day and at night she can't sleep. We are >having a rough time and want to give up. We feel like bad parents >for keeping the shoes on making her scream and we feel like bad >parents when we take off the shoes because we know she is in pain. >Help!!!! We now cry right along side of her. How do other parents >deal with this. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 What I meant with creases was more for the inside and sole. The outside ankle area, once corrected might have lots of wrinkles and creases - depending on how far the foot was clubbed in the first place - and perhaps how long it was before it was corrected. I should have clarified that, sorry. If you're seeing creases on the inside ankle or the sole I'd question the correction. That's what I meant. I couldn't tell you if it goes away. Darbi has just a little extra skin on the outside ankle. I know nothing about that going away, sorry. Kori At 07:49 AM 8/3/2004, you wrote: >You brought up a point I've had a question about - you mention the skin >being creased. On both my cf boys (the oldest is 6 yrs.) the skin on the >top of their foot, outside edge around the ankle is very excessive and >many folds of skin there. When the foot was clubbed of course this skin >was stretched out tight but with correction it's all gathered up there, >even six years later on my oldest. Does this ever go away? >s. > > Re: Need Help! DBB shoes > > >Hi Pam, > >The stuff in the heel is the plastizode insert that was essential with the >old style Markells. Some brace shops are still using it with the new ones, >we haven't found they're necessary but some little feet might stay in >better with them, at least at first. It was however, the part of the shoe >that pressed into Darbi's heel that made the sore (remember though, I >wasn't getting her foot in all the way when this happened so it wasn't >necessarily the plastizode that made the sore). > >What concerns me is that she's screaming so much. A couple things should >be considered and first and foremost is to question if her feet are fully >corrected (bilateral right?). So many babies have come out of casts and >into the DBB/FAB recently and had problems simply because the foot wasn't >corrected fully in the first place. What kind of dorsiflexion does she >have? Do you see any creases in the skin on her sole or inside ankle >still? How does she hold her feet when relaxed? (some turning in and >pointing down when relaxed is normal for babies - if baby is bilateral it's >hard to tell what's normal and what's not, unilateral is easier to compare >and see how a normal foot looks). When you stand her up (with help of >course) do both her heels sit flat on the floor as well as the >forefoot? Do you question her correction at all? So many of us think >we're being paranoid and disregard what our instincts are telling us - but >unless the foot looks about as close to normal as can be, more correction >may need to be attained. I know it may seem strange - but a fully >corrected foot looks just like a normal foot - albeit a little shorter and >fatter... it still looks like it does NOT have a problem as far as turning >in and rolling on the side goes. Without seeing signs of pressure sores or >blisters, she's crying like that for a reason, and very likely NOT because >she just doesn't like the shoes. More questions: > > * How long is the bar? Have you put it up to her shoulders to see if >the heels are the same width apart? There seems to be some question about >whether it's heel to heel or bolt hole to bolt hole. Hall the >Orthotist from the U of Iowa has said here it's hole to hole, but many of >use use heel to heel with very good results so this is something you'll >have to figure out what works best for you. Whatever method you use, as >long as she's comfortable it's fine. Heel to heel makes for a wider brace >and unilateral makes it just a little shorter because one foot isn't at 70 >degrees (FYI). > * Do you have the last cast? If so, are the shoes set at the same >degree of outward rotation the last cast is at? Say the last cast was at >50 degrees, yet the shoes are set at 60 or 70. This isn't going to >work. First off - the last cast should be rotated more than 50 >degrees. Second - the shoes should be the same as the last cast or it's >uncomfortable, to say the least. If there's a discrepancy between cast and >shoes the best thing you can do right now is to set the shoes the same as >the last cast. So, if the cast is 60 degrees, you can turn the shoes 5 >degrees a week and probably get to 70 with no problems. If it's at >50... well, she needs another cast to complete the correction and >overcorrect so she can wear the shoes. 20 degrees is too much to turn that >foot yourself. Remember, the DBB/FAB is to maintain correction - it does >not correct an uncorrected foot at all. > * Try putting the shoes on without the bar to see if it's the shoes >that are bothering her. Leave them on for a couple of hours without the >bar because she might not complain at first, but later if it's indeed the >shoes themselves she probably will let you know she's uncomfortable. > * Are you 150% sure the heel is seated as far back and down in the shoe >as possible? (do you have the new Markell's or the old? The new ones do >not have a seam running down the *inside* of the shoe and have a factory >padded tongue) Are you pressing the heel into the heel pocket by pointing >the toes *up*, bending the knee and SHOVING (lol yes I know, sounds bad) >her foot into it? Use your thumb to keep the foot in and tighten the >strap. The short straps are difficult to manage with fingertips - someone >posted recently about using a vice grip to grasp the strap - if you need >to, get one! lol... but don't let the foot slip out between pressing it >in and tightening the strap. Try putting the strap into the lower slots in >the sides of the boot. > * If the heel is seated well, is it pulling up once she's tightened >up? Try pulling the tongue down lower than the tops of the boots, and/or >not lacing the tops holes. > * I assume no signs of sores/blisters. If so, this is good. It >doesn't mean that it's not bothering her though. If all else fails and you >KNOW she's corrected properly but unsure about her heel sitting flat, go >ahead and cut the hole in the back of the shoes so you can see what's going >on inside. It will help you know once and for all if her heel is seating >properly. > >I know I'm forgetting something. Let us know how it's going. If, after >trying all these things with no improvement I'd take pics and send them off >to Dr. Ponseti. Just to confirm that she's corrected fully and that >something else isn't going wacky with her feet. > >Hang in there - it WILL get better. You just need to find out why she's >upset with the shoes and fix whatever is causing her distress. Lots of us >have BTDT - I know it's hard right now but will soon be a distant memory >and everyone will be happy :~} You should NOT have to *deal* with this at >all. Something isn't right - it needs to be addressed and remedied. Then >no one will have to deal with anything other than remembering to take them >off for an hour a day lol. Seriously, she'll be so happy in them you'll >forget to let her out and she's already down for the night hehe... > > >Kori >Mama of >Kenton - 6/98 >Merek - 3/00 >Darbi - 3/28/03 - Rt. CF - DBB 12hr/d > (¨`·.·´¨) > `·.¸(¨`·.·´¨) > `·.¸.·´ > >At 10:07 AM 8/2/2004, you wrote: > >This post is very similar to an eariler post. We hate these > >shoes!!! My dd has been trying to wear these shoes for 10 days now > >and its not getting any better, in fact worse. The first couple days > >she dealt with them then she figured out how to kick out of them. We > >went back to the Dr and they put something in her heel to keep her > >foot from slipping out so much and after that all she does is > >scream. She is cranky all day and at night she can't sleep. We are > >having a rough time and want to give up. We feel like bad parents > >for keeping the shoes on making her scream and we feel like bad > >parents when we take off the shoes because we know she is in pain. > >Help!!!! We now cry right along side of her. How do other parents > >deal with this. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 Do you have the gold bar that the shoes can be removed. If so, try putting just the shoes on and see how she does. Then put the shoes on the bar but don't set them at 70degrees. Some people have posted that their child was fine with just the shoes and when they added the bar was when the screaming started. It could be that her feet aren't corrected enough and need to be casted again. Also, some people have changed the rotation to, say 40 and then worked up to 70. If you don't have the adjustable shoes, get her back to the Dr pronto or take the shoes off until you can find another Dr. The worst thing that will happen is that she will lose some correction and need another cast, which she will probably need anyway. Robin & Rose 3/12/03 Right club foot Allyn savannahmomi@...> wrote: I dont have any advice except to listen to your baby. if it has been 10 days maybe you need to give up and go back to the dr. is her bar long enough? maybe her foot isnt as flexable as it needs to be. maybe the foot is rotated out to far. but she is telling you that something is wrong. i had this problem and i gave up and the dr didnt want to see us till out appt, in 3 months. so at our appt recently she got a longer bar, after 5 days of screaming and tylenol and giving her a break she is fine. good luck Allyn Pam ronnellsmom@...> wrote: This post is very similar to an eariler post. We hate these shoes!!! My dd has been trying to wear these shoes for 10 days now and its not getting any better, in fact worse. The first couple days she dealt with them then she figured out how to kick out of them. We went back to the Dr and they put something in her heel to keep her foot from slipping out so much and after that all she does is scream. She is cranky all day and at night she can't sleep. We are having a rough time and want to give up. We feel like bad parents for keeping the shoes on making her scream and we feel like bad parents when we take off the shoes because we know she is in pain. Help!!!! We now cry right along side of her. How do other parents deal with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 Do you have the gold bar that the shoes can be removed. If so, try putting just the shoes on and see how she does. Then put the shoes on the bar but don't set them at 70degrees. Some people have posted that their child was fine with just the shoes and when they added the bar was when the screaming started. It could be that her feet aren't corrected enough and need to be casted again. Also, some people have changed the rotation to, say 40 and then worked up to 70. If you don't have the adjustable shoes, get her back to the Dr pronto or take the shoes off until you can find another Dr. The worst thing that will happen is that she will lose some correction and need another cast, which she will probably need anyway. Robin & Rose 3/12/03 Right club foot Allyn savannahmomi@...> wrote: I dont have any advice except to listen to your baby. if it has been 10 days maybe you need to give up and go back to the dr. is her bar long enough? maybe her foot isnt as flexable as it needs to be. maybe the foot is rotated out to far. but she is telling you that something is wrong. i had this problem and i gave up and the dr didnt want to see us till out appt, in 3 months. so at our appt recently she got a longer bar, after 5 days of screaming and tylenol and giving her a break she is fine. good luck Allyn Pam ronnellsmom@...> wrote: This post is very similar to an eariler post. We hate these shoes!!! My dd has been trying to wear these shoes for 10 days now and its not getting any better, in fact worse. The first couple days she dealt with them then she figured out how to kick out of them. We went back to the Dr and they put something in her heel to keep her foot from slipping out so much and after that all she does is scream. She is cranky all day and at night she can't sleep. We are having a rough time and want to give up. We feel like bad parents for keeping the shoes on making her scream and we feel like bad parents when we take off the shoes because we know she is in pain. Help!!!! We now cry right along side of her. How do other parents deal with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 Do you have the gold bar that the shoes can be removed. If so, try putting just the shoes on and see how she does. Then put the shoes on the bar but don't set them at 70degrees. Some people have posted that their child was fine with just the shoes and when they added the bar was when the screaming started. It could be that her feet aren't corrected enough and need to be casted again. Also, some people have changed the rotation to, say 40 and then worked up to 70. If you don't have the adjustable shoes, get her back to the Dr pronto or take the shoes off until you can find another Dr. The worst thing that will happen is that she will lose some correction and need another cast, which she will probably need anyway. Robin & Rose 3/12/03 Right club foot Allyn savannahmomi@...> wrote: I dont have any advice except to listen to your baby. if it has been 10 days maybe you need to give up and go back to the dr. is her bar long enough? maybe her foot isnt as flexable as it needs to be. maybe the foot is rotated out to far. but she is telling you that something is wrong. i had this problem and i gave up and the dr didnt want to see us till out appt, in 3 months. so at our appt recently she got a longer bar, after 5 days of screaming and tylenol and giving her a break she is fine. good luck Allyn Pam ronnellsmom@...> wrote: This post is very similar to an eariler post. We hate these shoes!!! My dd has been trying to wear these shoes for 10 days now and its not getting any better, in fact worse. The first couple days she dealt with them then she figured out how to kick out of them. We went back to the Dr and they put something in her heel to keep her foot from slipping out so much and after that all she does is scream. She is cranky all day and at night she can't sleep. We are having a rough time and want to give up. We feel like bad parents for keeping the shoes on making her scream and we feel like bad parents when we take off the shoes because we know she is in pain. Help!!!! We now cry right along side of her. How do other parents deal with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 Thanks. .. If you're seeing creases on the inside ankle or the sole I'd question the correction. That's what I meant. I couldn't tell you if it goes away. Darbi has just a little extra skin on the outside ankle. I know nothing about that going away, sorry. `·.¸.·´ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 Thanks. .. If you're seeing creases on the inside ankle or the sole I'd question the correction. That's what I meant. I couldn't tell you if it goes away. Darbi has just a little extra skin on the outside ankle. I know nothing about that going away, sorry. `·.¸.·´ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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