Re: What TSH, FT3, FT4 numbers are you shooting for?

[Guest guest]

it has run as

high as 90, but only for short periods.

_________________________

Sounds like low adrenal. Adrenal fatigue is characterized by big up

and down swings in production of cortisol. So, short periods of a

high pulse is characteristic of it. When cortisol drops too low

thyroid builds up in the blood affecting the heart.

A good way to monitor your adrenal function is using Rind's

instructions: http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp

____________________________

I woke up with an ungodly high pulse rate in

the 150 to 160 range,

___________________________

One thing to note about the Nutri+Meds adrenal is that it is the

whole adrenal gland extract. In adrenal fatigue, it is almost

universally the adrenal Cortex that is fatigued. The Crtex is a

small part of the whole gland. Studies have found that the rest of

the gland is amazingly resistant to troubles. It is farly rare for

the rest of the gland to have fatigue and only few s cases

have auto-immune damage to the rest of the gland.

The Cortex makes cortisol and bout 20 to 40 other cortisones and

mineralcortaoids. The rest of the gland makes adrenalin and other

hormones. So, when you take Nutri+meds, you are also getting some

adrenalin and other hormones that you may not be low in. The

adrenalin may have had the bad effect that you experienced. Or,

since adrenal fatigue is characterized by big up and down swings.

you may have taken the Nutri+meds at a point in which cortisol was

high and you just added to your problems. It is not uncommon for the

adrenals to catch up at night and dump a lot of cortisol, keeping

you awake and giving anxiety. It is often very difficult to tell

which way adrenal fumction is swinging, whether your cortisol is

high or low at any point.

You might try instead an adrenal " Cortex " extract instead of a whole

gland extract. One is IsoCort, but there are others out there as

well. It is often suggested that you be careful about taking adrenal

support at night. It can be disturbing to sleep if you guess wrong

and have high levels at night. High cortisol at night is pretty

common in adrenal fatigue. I have to be very careful about taking

any adrenal at night. It can just as easily make things doubly

worse. The healthy adrenals work in a cyclic maner in the day. They

make double the amount of cortisol needed the rest of the day in the

morning one hour after waking. Then gradually they taper off

production in the day to their lowest point at between 1:00 and 3:00

in the morning. This tapering down is needed for sleep and melatonin

production. In adrenal fatigue, the adrenals cannot make quite

enough cortisol and so often get depleted at some point in the day.

For many this is in the morning when demands are double. After they

get depleted, they must temporarily stop production to rebuild up

their stores of hormones again. Once they stop for a while, the

brain senses there is not enough cortisol and so releases a lot of

ACTH to tell the adrenals to get going. But, they can't untill they

are ready. So, ACTH builds up in the blood. When the adrenals are

finally ready, they see there is a lot of ACTH there and think there

is a crisis. So, they dump everything they just made and once again

are depleted and the cycle starts over. The result is very irratic

adenal function in which you can have high or very low levels of

cortisol in the night and at some points in the day.

Adrenal support should be given in 4 equal doses in the day starting

when you get up and then every 4 hours after that. You need to be

very regular about doing it. Otherwise, you aren't helping yourself.

The support often helps by stopping this up and down drastic

function. Adrenal support oftn evens things out making function more

normal in the day.

__________________

last testing

showed a .8 Free T4, that was rock bottom so called norma, with a

Free T3 of

3.6 at midrange, high end being 4.2. What is the mystery here, with

me?!

__________________

Dr. Derry has written that if thyroid levels are too low, the

adrenals will never work normally. This is just my opinion, but your

levels might be too low and this may be causing the adrenals to stay

weak, thus it may be playing a role in your blood pressure problems.

In fact there are studies that have shown that low thyroid levels

are associated with high blood pressure. Thyroid hormone itself acts

on the tinny vessels and how they function. This affects blood

pressure.

http://thyroid.about.com/library/derry/bl11.htm

Being in the middle of the range may not be the best place for you.

Thyroid test ranges are skewed down toward hypothyroidism due to the

ranges being determined by who has the tests. The majority of those

having thyroid tests are old, sick or hypothyroid. The results are

that all these condtions cause low thryoid levels to some extent.

Many of the more enlightened doctors prefer to have patients at

least in the upper half of the ranges and better yet the upper 1/3

because they take this skewed nature of the test into account. One

such doctor is Dr. . http://www.thyroid-

info.com/articles/docdon.htm Also, people vary hugely in thyroid

needs and about 25% of normal people fall outside of the current

ranges. So, what is normal for you?

Tish

_________________

Author: Luboshitzky R

Date Published: 05-Jul-2002

Publication: Thyroid 2002 May;12(5):421-5

Title: Risk factors for cardiovascular disease in women with

subclinical hypothyroidism.

We conclude that subclinical hypothyroidism in middle-aged women is

associated with hypertension, hypertriglyceridemia, and elevated

TC/HDL-C ratio. This may increase the risk of accelerated

atherosclerosis and premature coronary artery disease in some

patients.

__________________

Author: Kahaly GJ

Date Published: 30-Jun-2002

Publication: Thyroid 2002 Jun;12(6):473-81

Title: Cardiovascular hemodynamics and exercise tolerance in thyroid

disease.

Most patients with thyroid disease experience cardiovascular

manifestations, and the most serious complications of thyroid

dysfunction occur as a result of cardiac involvement.

Thus, in thyroid disease, both cardiac structures and function may

remain normal at rest, however impaired cardiovascular and

respiratory adaptation to effort becomes unmasked during exercise.

_________________

Author: Biondi B

Date Published: 12-Mar-2002

Publication: Ann Intern Med. 2002 Dec 3;137(11):904-14.

Title: Effects of subclinical thyroid dysfunction on the heart.

BACKGROUND: Mounting evidence indicates that subclinical thyroid

dysfunction has important clinical effects and prognostic

implications, supporting the view that it is not a compensated

biochemical change sensu strictu.

CONCLUSION: The heart responds to the minimal but persistent changes

in circulating thyroid hormone levels typical of subclinical thyroid

dysfunction. Thus, the condition is not a compensated biochemical

change sensu strictu, and timely treatment should be considered in

an attempt to avoid adverse cardiovascular effects.

_______________________

Author: Obuobie K

Date Published: 10-Jan-2002

Publication: J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2002 Oct 1;87(10):4662-4666

Title: Increased Central Arterial Stiffness in Hypothyroidism.

Hypothyroidism is associated with cardiovascular dysfunction. It is

increasingly apparent that stiffening of central arteries may lead

to increased afterload and cardiac dysfunction.

This study confirms that hypothyroidism is associated with increased

cardiovascular risk, as evidenced by increased augmentation of

central aortic pressures and central arterial stiffness.

Furthermore, these abnormalities are reversed after adequate T(4)

replacement.

________________

Author: ANNE R. CAPPOLA

Date Published: 14-Sep-2001

Publication: The Journal of Endocrinology & Metabolism 88(6):2438-

2444 Copyright @ 2003 by The Endocrine Society

Title: Hypothyroidism and Atherosclerosis

For 125 yr, physicians have appreciated that there is a relationship

between hypothyroidism and atherosclerosis. Our growing

understanding of thyroid hormone's regula- tion of lipid and

homocysteine metabolism, effects on vascular reactivity and blood

pressure, and modulation of other atherosclerotic factors now

provide partial explanations for how hypothyroidism predisposes

patients to cardiovascular disease. In addition to this pathogenic

relationship, the multiple direct and indirect actions of thyroid

hormone on cardiac and peripheral vascular actions can complicate

management of hypothyroId patients wIth atherosclerotic coronary

disease.

_________________

Author: P. B. S. FOWLER

Date Published: 01-Jan-2000

Publication: Q J Med 2000; 93:477-485

Title: Commentary The thyroid, blood flow and atheroma

Warfarin has caused an increased number of fatal subdural haematomas

due to trivial trauma over the past few years. Thyroxine, by

increasing flow in the macrocirculation, would be a more

physiological and certainly safer alternative. A large double-blind

trial is needed where aspirin 75 mg daily and L-thyroxine 75 mg.

daily are given together to counteract the effects of impaired blood

flow in the micro and macrocirculations, respectively. Attempts in

the past to initiate this research have been limited. CHD, the

commonest cause of death in men and women, might become a rare event

at very little cost.

__________________

Author: ROBERT P. McCOMBS, B.S., M.D., F.A.C.P.

Date Published: 01-Jan-1971

Publication: FOURTH EDITION, 1971. YEAR BOOK MEDICAL PUBLISHERS •

INC. 3 EAST WACKER DRIVE • CHICAGO

Title: FUNDAMENTALS OF INTERNAL MEDICINE A Physiological and

Clinical Approach to Disease

Atherosclerosis and coronary vascular disease probably are increased

because sclerosis and coronary vascular disease probably are

increased because of the hypercholesterolemia of myxedema; yet

angina pectoris and certain types of chronic congestive heart

failure are benefited by the development of hypothyroidism because

of the lessened metabolic needs of the body and the lessened work

load of the heart.

Myxedema heart disease.- Some cardiac involvement is evident in

nearly every case of clinically recognizable myxedema in adults.

[Guest guest]

I absolutely KNOW that every bit of this is true, but my point was that just

a few months before that, on an even lower dose of Armour, the Free T4 was

at a 1. something, and the Free t3 was at a 4.5, above range even. What is

puzzling me is the fact that, at a higher dose of thyroid (a 30 mg

difference, at that!), here come these low readings, which put me right back

where I started a yr ago. I've had this disease (known) for over 11 to 12

yrs now, and just made the change to Armour over a yr ago. It took me this

long to get this far, but what I don't understand is why both these labs

were lower (back where they started almost, more than a yr ago) at a higher

dose, but higher at a lower dose of Armour. I'm thinking that my Hashi's

gland is very stubborn and is still putting out hormone in big spurts at

times, then dropping back even more often. It doesn't make sense though, no

matter how I try to look at it. One thing I've BEEN sure of, is adrenal

fatigue (but not documented), though I think that my adrenals are trying to

recover, IF I'm very careful how much sleep I get, keep most stressors at

bay, or at least handle them differently than I used to, have a better diet,

plus a corrected anemia, etc...........Sometimes I wish that the entire

gland was removed, so that at least I'd know where I stand on treatment, and

that would be full replacement, without the tricky things that Hashi's can

do to the gland itself. It is so frustrating with Hashi's.

Re: What TSH, FT3, FT4 numbers are you

shooting for?

>

>

> it has run as

> high as 90, but only for short periods.

> _________________________

>

> Sounds like low adrenal. Adrenal fatigue is characterized by big up

> and down swings in production of cortisol. So, short periods of a

> high pulse is characteristic of it. When cortisol drops too low

> thyroid builds up in the blood affecting the heart.

>

> A good way to monitor your adrenal function is using Rind's

> instructions: http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp

> ____________________________

>

> I woke up with an ungodly high pulse rate in

> the 150 to 160 range,

> ___________________________

>

> One thing to note about the Nutri+Meds adrenal is that it is the

> whole adrenal gland extract. In adrenal fatigue, it is almost

> universally the adrenal Cortex that is fatigued. The Crtex is a

> small part of the whole gland. Studies have found that the rest of

> the gland is amazingly resistant to troubles. It is farly rare for

> the rest of the gland to have fatigue and only few s cases

> have auto-immune damage to the rest of the gland.

>

> The Cortex makes cortisol and bout 20 to 40 other cortisones and

> mineralcortaoids. The rest of the gland makes adrenalin and other

> hormones. So, when you take Nutri+meds, you are also getting some

> adrenalin and other hormones that you may not be low in. The

> adrenalin may have had the bad effect that you experienced. Or,

> since adrenal fatigue is characterized by big up and down swings.

> you may have taken the Nutri+meds at a point in which cortisol was

> high and you just added to your problems. It is not uncommon for the

> adrenals to catch up at night and dump a lot of cortisol, keeping

> you awake and giving anxiety. It is often very difficult to tell

> which way adrenal fumction is swinging, whether your cortisol is

> high or low at any point.

>

> You might try instead an adrenal " Cortex " extract instead of a whole

> gland extract. One is IsoCort, but there are others out there as

> well. It is often suggested that you be careful about taking adrenal

> support at night. It can be disturbing to sleep if you guess wrong

> and have high levels at night. High cortisol at night is pretty

> common in adrenal fatigue. I have to be very careful about taking

> any adrenal at night. It can just as easily make things doubly

> worse. The healthy adrenals work in a cyclic maner in the day. They

> make double the amount of cortisol needed the rest of the day in the

> morning one hour after waking. Then gradually they taper off

> production in the day to their lowest point at between 1:00 and 3:00

> in the morning. This tapering down is needed for sleep and melatonin

> production. In adrenal fatigue, the adrenals cannot make quite

> enough cortisol and so often get depleted at some point in the day.

> For many this is in the morning when demands are double. After they

> get depleted, they must temporarily stop production to rebuild up

> their stores of hormones again. Once they stop for a while, the

> brain senses there is not enough cortisol and so releases a lot of

> ACTH to tell the adrenals to get going. But, they can't untill they

> are ready. So, ACTH builds up in the blood. When the adrenals are

> finally ready, they see there is a lot of ACTH there and think there

> is a crisis. So, they dump everything they just made and once again

> are depleted and the cycle starts over. The result is very irratic

> adenal function in which you can have high or very low levels of

> cortisol in the night and at some points in the day.

>

> Adrenal support should be given in 4 equal doses in the day starting

> when you get up and then every 4 hours after that. You need to be

> very regular about doing it. Otherwise, you aren't helping yourself.

> The support often helps by stopping this up and down drastic

> function. Adrenal support oftn evens things out making function more

> normal in the day.

> __________________

>

> last testing

> showed a .8 Free T4, that was rock bottom so called norma, with a

> Free T3 of

> 3.6 at midrange, high end being 4.2. What is the mystery here, with

> me?!

> __________________

>

> Dr. Derry has written that if thyroid levels are too low, the

> adrenals will never work normally. This is just my opinion, but your

> levels might be too low and this may be causing the adrenals to stay

> weak, thus it may be playing a role in your blood pressure problems.

> In fact there are studies that have shown that low thyroid levels

> are associated with high blood pressure. Thyroid hormone itself acts

> on the tinny vessels and how they function. This affects blood

> pressure.

>

> http://thyroid.about.com/library/derry/bl11.htm

>

> Being in the middle of the range may not be the best place for you.

> Thyroid test ranges are skewed down toward hypothyroidism due to the

> ranges being determined by who has the tests. The majority of those

> having thyroid tests are old, sick or hypothyroid. The results are

> that all these condtions cause low thryoid levels to some extent.

> Many of the more enlightened doctors prefer to have patients at

> least in the upper half of the ranges and better yet the upper 1/3

> because they take this skewed nature of the test into account. One

> such doctor is Dr. . http://www.thyroid-

> info.com/articles/docdon.htm Also, people vary hugely in thyroid

> needs and about 25% of normal people fall outside of the current

> ranges. So, what is normal for you?

>

> Tish

[Guest guest]

Yes, if I don't eat xtra salt, I almost totally dehydrate, which is the

exact opposite of what " mainstream " doctors are telling us these days. They

are all full of bologna about eating a low salt diet because it is

detrimental to people like us, since we can't seem to hold our sodium at

all. The nausea was coming more often for over 2 yrs up until recently, and

has tapered off, little by little, but does rear it's ugly head from time to

time. There for a long time, I couldn't handle ANY stress at all (since I

had handled so much over the yrs), and would get nauseated and either blank

out and get very weak or would have absolutely NO reaction to something that

should have brought me into the " fight or flight " thing, but didn't. All

these things make me believe that I've been in adrenal fatigue, but what I

don't understand is the fact that it's supposed to bring low blood pressure.

Mine is either in a normal range or too high. My Free T3 and Free T4 bounce

around, as I have Hashi's, and it is frustrating. The thyroid evidently has

not yet died and won't give up, but is schizoid, lol! I don't know.

Re: Re: What TSH, FT3, FT4 numbers are you

shooting for?

>

> ,

> I'm curious, do you crave salt and have nausea as a symptom. This was the

> first signs I had that tiped me off that I had Adrenal Fatigue. You can't

> eat at all because you are so sick to your stomach. I lost 15lbs before it

> finally showed up on a test. The symptoms came way before it showed up on

> the blood work. I'm pretty skinny so 15lbs was significant for me.

>

> LaCretia