Guest guest Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 In a message dated 12/14/2004 1:25:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, klb58@... writes: > > > is that because I am on a less than optimal dose of Armour? > let me be a bit clearer on that. antibodies can flare up even on an optimal dose of Armour i would think. that's the nature of autoimmune disease. but that's why a lot of us feel better when we're taking more Armour and the thyroid is not producing so much...because then the antibodies slow down (hopefully) their attack on the thyroid gland. It's my opinion that with Hashi's that most folks will do better having the suppressed TSH for this reason...the thyroid is not so much an enemy anymore to the antibodies. cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 In a message dated 12/14/2004 1:25:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, klb58@... writes: > > > is that because I am on a less than optimal dose of Armour? > let me be a bit clearer on that. antibodies can flare up even on an optimal dose of Armour i would think. that's the nature of autoimmune disease. but that's why a lot of us feel better when we're taking more Armour and the thyroid is not producing so much...because then the antibodies slow down (hopefully) their attack on the thyroid gland. It's my opinion that with Hashi's that most folks will do better having the suppressed TSH for this reason...the thyroid is not so much an enemy anymore to the antibodies. cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Kerry wrote: > > >I have been on Armour about 9 weeks now. I started with 1 1/2 grains and am now at 2.75 grains. In the past two weeks I have felt an increasing lump feeling in my throat. Though my other symptoms have started to disappear, including less hair loss in the past couple of days.This is beginning to concern me. Any thoughts? > > > > > > > > > Do you have thyroid antibodies? -- Alison http://www.alisonashwell.com new work uploaded http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Kerry wrote: > > >I have been on Armour about 9 weeks now. I started with 1 1/2 grains and am now at 2.75 grains. In the past two weeks I have felt an increasing lump feeling in my throat. Though my other symptoms have started to disappear, including less hair loss in the past couple of days.This is beginning to concern me. Any thoughts? > > > > > > > > > Do you have thyroid antibodies? -- Alison http://www.alisonashwell.com new work uploaded http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Kerry wrote: > > >I have been on Armour about 9 weeks now. I started with 1 1/2 grains and am now at 2.75 grains. In the past two weeks I have felt an increasing lump feeling in my throat. Though my other symptoms have started to disappear, including less hair loss in the past couple of days.This is beginning to concern me. Any thoughts? > > > > > > > > > Do you have thyroid antibodies? -- Alison http://www.alisonashwell.com new work uploaded http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Interesting - I had this also when I started the armour, but I didn't test positive for Hashimoto's. I also would get a cough for no reason - weird throat feeling. I figured it was the armour. I haven't had it for a while now, but it lasted the first couple of months after I started on the sublingual armour. I was going to ask the group about it when I got it, but I was on no mail, and just couldn't muster up the umph to get on the computer to ask. Cris Re: I need some help In a message dated 12/14/2004 1:04:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, klb58@... writes: > the past two weeks I have felt an increasing lump feeling in my throat this hashimoto's hypo symptom comes and goes with a lot of folks. you have hashi's? if so, you may be having an antibody flare up. cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Interesting - I had this also when I started the armour, but I didn't test positive for Hashimoto's. I also would get a cough for no reason - weird throat feeling. I figured it was the armour. I haven't had it for a while now, but it lasted the first couple of months after I started on the sublingual armour. I was going to ask the group about it when I got it, but I was on no mail, and just couldn't muster up the umph to get on the computer to ask. Cris Re: I need some help In a message dated 12/14/2004 1:04:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, klb58@... writes: > the past two weeks I have felt an increasing lump feeling in my throat this hashimoto's hypo symptom comes and goes with a lot of folks. you have hashi's? if so, you may be having an antibody flare up. cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Interesting - I had this also when I started the armour, but I didn't test positive for Hashimoto's. I also would get a cough for no reason - weird throat feeling. I figured it was the armour. I haven't had it for a while now, but it lasted the first couple of months after I started on the sublingual armour. I was going to ask the group about it when I got it, but I was on no mail, and just couldn't muster up the umph to get on the computer to ask. Cris Re: I need some help In a message dated 12/14/2004 1:04:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, klb58@... writes: > the past two weeks I have felt an increasing lump feeling in my throat this hashimoto's hypo symptom comes and goes with a lot of folks. you have hashi's? if so, you may be having an antibody flare up. cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Kerry wrote: >yes, I have Hashi's.. > > > The thyroid can react to fluctuations in antibodies by getting hot and/ or a lump in the throat. feeling or choking Alison http://www.alisonashwell.com new work uploaded http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 In a message dated 12/19/2004 6:53:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, marin@... writes: > It is said by many authorities that a high range of people have some of > these antibodies, and they go on to say that that's normal. I don't believe > it. What I think is that, when the antibodies are low, it is either hashi's > waiting to happen, or the antibodies may have been higher at one time, and > are waxing and waning, in and out. The fact that there are ANY antibodies > there at all says something about that person, and, if they have these tests > run in the future, at a time when they're feeling really bad from this > disease, I think they'll find that they're higher at some point and lower at > others Amen sister - this is exactly what I have come to believe too! Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 In a message dated 12/20/2004 8:22:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, lacretiamo@... writes: > Will you be normal ...no, because there is > no cure. Like my doctor said, you WILL have side effects and we will do our > > best to control them however, these are things you have to deal with when > you have an incureable disease yes...i was reading something last night that said " autoimmune " implies " chronic " ....and that's something for us to remember. Hashi's is a chronic disease that we don't cure, but which we MANAGE as best we can to keep symptoms at a minimum. Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 I have researched the antibodies and the are really irrelivent to the disease. They are what give you the diagnoses of Hashi's which is autoimmune in nature. Once you have the antibodies, you will always have them. I feel the symptoms are driven by either not receiving enough thyroid meds or the doctor ignoring the adrenals that may be fatigue in addition to the Hashi's. Adrenal fatigue is more common with Hashi's since the thyroid will lean on the adrenals for energy until they are overworked as well. If you read the history of the disease, you will find that patients today receive a third of the dose they used to for thyroid problems. I feel this is why most folks don't feel well. After I finally found a doctor to test my adrenals, I found that I had to have adrenal support (Cortisol) added to my meds in order for some of the symptoms to subside. Most have a theory that if the antibodies are high then the symptoms are worse. Either way they are going to fluctate and there is nothing that can control that. Receiving enough meds when the thyroid is under attack is what will rid you of the symptoms. This is easier said than done because one must find which thyroid drug works well with their bodies chemistry. Once you have the adrenals tested and you have found a thyroid drug that works well with you body, you will feel some relief. Will you be normal ...no, because there is no cure. Like my doctor said, you WILL have side effects and we will do our best to control them however, these are things you have to deal with when you have an incureable disease. Learn what your triggers are, have the proper tests run, and be educated. Education on this is the most important. Being able to read your test results and chart progress is important. If I don't see progress within 3 months with a doctor, I move on. Don't waste your time with someone who doesn't understand this disease fully or has a one track mind on one particular treatment program. Treatment has to fit the patient, not the other way around. Don't be afraid to interview doctors prior to making an appointment. Hope this helps. Regards, LaCretia > >Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones >To: <NaturalThyroidHormones > >Subject: Re: I need some help >Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:52:44 -0600 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Sender: marin@... >Received: from n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by >mc8-f41.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sun, 19 Dec 2004 >15:52:57 -0800 >Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec >2004 23:52:22 -0000 >Received: from [66.218.67.193] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 >Dec 2004 23:52:22 -0000 >Received: (qmail 98890 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2004 23:52:21 -0000 >Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; >19 Dec 2004 23:52:21 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO x11.quik.com) (209.213.140.111) by >mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2004 23:52:21 -0000 >Received: (from root@localhost)by x11.quik.com (8.12.9-20030926/8.12.5) id >iBJNqLfr015419for NaturalThyroidHormones@...; Sun, 19 >Dec 2004 15:52:21 -0800 >Received: from oemcomputer ([208.187.74.211])by x11.quik.com >(8.12.9-20030926/8.12.5) with SMTP id iBJNqBN6015361for ><NaturalThyroidHormones >; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 15:52:19 -0800 >X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jHr1aqdC1PMb3MN/iuQBDIs >X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email >X-Apparently-To: NaturalThyroidHormones >References: ><005d01c4e45b$d83dc460$f38ebbd0@oemcomputer> > ><000301c4e562$9d789e60$574abbd0@oemcomputer> > >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 >X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 209.213.140.111 >X-Yahoo-Profile: lilacs150 >Mailing-List: list NaturalThyroidHormones ; contact >NaturalThyroidHormones-owner >Delivered-To: mailing list NaturalThyroidHormones >Precedence: bulk >List-Unsubscribe: ><mailto:NaturalThyroidHormones-unsubscribe > >Return-Path: >sentto-7991139-43267-1103500342-lacretiamo=hotmail.com@... >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Dec 2004 23:52:57.0909 (UTC) >FILETIME=[DD978650:01C4E625] > > >It is said by many authorities that a high range of people have some of >these antibodies, and they go on to say that that's normal. I don't >believe >it. What I think is that, when the antibodies are low, it is either >hashi's >waiting to happen, or the antibodies may have been higher at one time, and >are waxing and waning, in and out. The fact that there are ANY antibodies >there at all says something about that person, and, if they have these >tests >run in the future, at a time when they're feeling really bad from this >disease, I think they'll find that they're higher at some point and lower >at >others. Different labs have different ranges and different ways of doing >the blood tests for this. On mine (HealthCheckUSA), one of the antibodies >they stop counting after it goes over 1000, so there's not telling how many >of this particular antibody that there really is in my body. Some of them >have a range that just says something like < 40 is normal and that sort of >result. Depends on the lab running the tests. You can have the antibodies >and not have quite developed the disease itself. There's no telling how >many yrs I had these antibodies, maybe even as a child, for all I know. >Who >would know, since the test was never run until I ran it myself. A huge # >of >these antibodies does do massive destruction on the gland, or wherever they >are located at, including standing outside the cells, blocking the thyroid >hormone receptors. Someone who had low thyroid antibodies one yr, may have >high ones the next, depending on that person. > > > > Re: I need some help > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How high is very high. I haven't been able to find a range. Mine >63. >My > > > > sister had Hashi's and then cancer. What do we need to be looking >for? > > > > > > > > Kate > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Here is more information on antibodies: Greater than 82% of the patients with Hashimoto’s thyroiditis and 60-70% of the patients with Grave’s disease have elevated anti-thyroglobulin antibodies (TgAb). TgAb can predict a worsening of or a progression toward thyroiditis. They can also be found in differentiated thyroid carcinoma and their disappearance after treatment indicates a favorable prognosis Anti-Thyroid Peroxidase antibodies (TPOAb) are found in nearly all Hashimoto’s cases and greater than 70% of Grave’s patients. TPOAb is associated with destruction of thyroid tissue in Hashimoto’s. Together these antibody tests increase the diagnostic sensitivity of autoimmune thyroid disease and possibly other diseases as well. > >Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones >To: NaturalThyroidHormones >Subject: Re: I need some help >Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:33:18 -0600 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Sender: kguynn@... (AT) mail (DOT) teamkaos.org >Received: from n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.46]) by >mc6-f19.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 19 Dec 2004 >16:34:15 -0800 >Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec >2004 00:33:25 -0000 >Received: from [66.218.67.192] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 >Dec 2004 00:33:25 -0000 >Received: (qmail 9683 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2004 00:33:24 -0000 >Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; >20 Dec 2004 00:33:24 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO teamkaos.org) (70.241.163.138) by >mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2004 00:33:24 -0000 >Received: from MAIN.teamkaos.org (70.241.163.137:3980)by teamkaos.org with >[XMail 1.18 (Win32/Ix86) ESMTP Server]id <S1E370> for ><NaturalThyroidHormones > from ;Sun, 19 >Dec 2004 18:33:24 -0600 >X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jG1Ghv2WzdBLDiTSzGdokSe >X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email >X-Apparently-To: NaturalThyroidHormones >X-AuthUser: kguynn@... >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 >References: ><005d01c4e45b$d83dc460$f38ebbd0@oemcomputer> > ><000301c4e562$9d789e60$574abbd0@oemcomputer> > ><006001c4e625$d6a480a0$d34abbd0@oemcomputer> >X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 70.241.163.138 >X-Yahoo-Profile: kaoscattery >Mailing-List: list NaturalThyroidHormones ; contact >NaturalThyroidHormones-owner >Delivered-To: mailing list NaturalThyroidHormones >Precedence: bulk >List-Unsubscribe: ><mailto:NaturalThyroidHormones-unsubscribe > >Return-Path: >sentto-7991139-43281-1103502805-lacretiamo=hotmail.com@... >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Dec 2004 00:34:15.0511 (UTC) >FILETIME=[A25B9670:01C4E62B] > > >That make sense. My test showed the normal to be under 2. Mine was 64, >and so my doctor said you have Hashi's. My Dr said that once they are >there we don't need to test for them again, I'm assuming that is correct. >If nt, what would be the benefit of continuing to test them? I just need >to work on her on the Free T3 and no TSH. She took an article to read last >time I was in and we came to an agreement on the meds (Armour dosing) for >now. She is very open minded. I am working on " educating her " as I >become more educated. I am starting to feel better. But of course the >holiday stresses etc. I have a business matter that had my stress through >the wall yesterday and hopefully with have a resolution tomorrow. At least >this week I don't feel like I have a lump in my throat! > >Kate > > >At 05:52 PM 12/19/2004, you wrote: > > >It is said by many authorities that a high range of people have some of > >these antibodies, and they go on to say that that's normal. I don't >believe > >it. What I think is that, when the antibodies are low, it is either >hashi's > >waiting to happen, or the antibodies may have been higher at one time, >and > >are waxing and waning, in and out. The fact that there are ANY >antibodies > >there at all says something about that person, and, if they have these >tests > >run in the future, at a time when they're feeling really bad from this > >disease, I think they'll find that they're higher at some point and lower >at > >others. Different labs have different ranges and different ways of doing > >the blood tests for this. On mine (HealthCheckUSA), one of the >antibodies > >they stop counting after it goes over 1000, so there's not telling how >many > >of this particular antibody that there really is in my body. Some of >them > >have a range that just says something like < 40 is normal and that sort >of > >result. Depends on the lab running the tests. You can have the >antibodies > >and not have quite developed the disease itself. There's no telling how > >many yrs I had these antibodies, maybe even as a child, for all I know. >Who > >would know, since the test was never run until I ran it myself. A huge # >of > >these antibodies does do massive destruction on the gland, or wherever >they > >are located at, including standing outside the cells, blocking the >thyroid > >hormone receptors. Someone who had low thyroid antibodies one yr, may >have > >high ones the next, depending on that person. > > > > > > > > Re: I need some help > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How high is very high. I haven't been able to find a range. Mine >63. > >My > > > > > sister had Hashi's and then cancer. What do we need to be looking > >for? > > > > > > > > > > Kate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 In a message dated 12/21/2004 12:49:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, lacretiamo@... writes: > They say it never dies... just the output is effected but it will never > completly die I think when folks are taking a full replacement of thyroid hormone...the thyroid might as well be considered dead. Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 In a message dated 12/21/2004 12:49:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, lacretiamo@... writes: > They say it never dies... just the output is effected but it will never > completly die I think when folks are taking a full replacement of thyroid hormone...the thyroid might as well be considered dead. Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 In a message dated 12/21/2004 12:49:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, lacretiamo@... writes: > I haven't found > anything that says the antibodies will eventually kill it though I think that autopsies of folks with Hashimoto's is one of the best indicators of what happens to the thyroid. For example..here is my mother's: Multiple nodules are formed by fibrous bands separating the gland into colloid-filled folllicles with focal degeneration and chronic inflammation. There is one area of dense fibrous tissue and follicular epithelial cells with hyperchromatic and pleomorphic nuclei. Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 They say it never dies... just the output is effected but it will never completly die. I think that's why you see some folks go through hyper and they hypo...it can go back and forth depending on the antibody attack it's receiving at that given moment. Too bad there isn't more on this to confirm it. I did do a search and the only refernce or should I say legitimate resources have information about it dying due to radiation. I haven't found anything that says the antibodies will eventually kill it though. Anyone find more on this? LaCretia > > > but, I have asked many doctors if the thyroid dies > > due to the anitbodies attacking it constently and all have stated they >have > > never heard of such a thing > >how the heck do they think the gland gets fibrous and non-functional then? >i >mean isn't this the defintion of Hashimoto's - that antibodies attack the >gland until it dies? geez. >cindi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 They say it never dies... just the output is effected but it will never completly die. I think that's why you see some folks go through hyper and they hypo...it can go back and forth depending on the antibody attack it's receiving at that given moment. Too bad there isn't more on this to confirm it. I did do a search and the only refernce or should I say legitimate resources have information about it dying due to radiation. I haven't found anything that says the antibodies will eventually kill it though. Anyone find more on this? LaCretia > > > but, I have asked many doctors if the thyroid dies > > due to the anitbodies attacking it constently and all have stated they >have > > never heard of such a thing > >how the heck do they think the gland gets fibrous and non-functional then? >i >mean isn't this the defintion of Hashimoto's - that antibodies attack the >gland until it dies? geez. >cindi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 In a message dated 12/22/2004 9:15:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, martian.303@... writes: > this, I think, is my problem. My levels of anti-bodies were normal when > they were tested - they were present though! and I'm convinced that I have > hashi's. Dr. says absolutely not, because of this test what the data will say is that some percentage of he population have thyroid antibodies...and that that is normal....but that it has to be over a certain level for them to have Hashi's. I say phooey on that. So think about this...the people who have them over a certain level...had them had lower levels (not enough for a diagnosis) at some point in their life. I don't think they just jump from 0 to 200 without something in between. Doctors are so clueless. Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 In a message dated 12/22/2004 9:15:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, martian.303@... writes: > this, I think, is my problem. My levels of anti-bodies were normal when > they were tested - they were present though! and I'm convinced that I have > hashi's. Dr. says absolutely not, because of this test what the data will say is that some percentage of he population have thyroid antibodies...and that that is normal....but that it has to be over a certain level for them to have Hashi's. I say phooey on that. So think about this...the people who have them over a certain level...had them had lower levels (not enough for a diagnosis) at some point in their life. I don't think they just jump from 0 to 200 without something in between. Doctors are so clueless. Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 In a message dated 12/22/2004 9:15:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, martian.303@... writes: > this, I think, is my problem. My levels of anti-bodies were normal when > they were tested - they were present though! and I'm convinced that I have > hashi's. Dr. says absolutely not, because of this test what the data will say is that some percentage of he population have thyroid antibodies...and that that is normal....but that it has to be over a certain level for them to have Hashi's. I say phooey on that. So think about this...the people who have them over a certain level...had them had lower levels (not enough for a diagnosis) at some point in their life. I don't think they just jump from 0 to 200 without something in between. Doctors are so clueless. Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 In a message dated 12/22/2004 9:15:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, martian.303@... writes: > My levels of anti-bodies were normal when they were tested - they were > present though do you know what the number was. remember that yours could have been 28....and the range for diagnosis starts at 30...but the way docs do it, they woulda said " NORMAL " ...no hashi's. Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 In a message dated 12/22/2004 9:15:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, martian.303@... writes: > My levels of anti-bodies were normal when they were tested - they were > present though do you know what the number was. remember that yours could have been 28....and the range for diagnosis starts at 30...but the way docs do it, they woulda said " NORMAL " ...no hashi's. Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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