Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 I was already postie, so no gallon for me. Only mag citrate. Oh boy. Big time nasty, but um, it did the job. LOL! Thanks, Vitalady, Inc. T www.vitalady.com If you are interested in PayPal, please click here: https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=vitalady%40bigfoot.com Re: protein shakes > > > ---Jeanne,it has stalled now. Maybe that's why. Well, no, come to > think of it, it's probably been a week or more since I had a shake, > (now that I think about it) and possibly a week before that also. I > don't get it, I thought non-dairy creamer was mostly sugar? I've > been on clear liquids today for a colonoscopy tomorrow, so I haven't > been able to try one with water. I'll try it again tomorrow after I > get home from the hospital. The one I tried with water, though, just > turned too solid, there was no way to drink it. Maybe I had too much > ice or not enough water. Thanks. Lynn > > In GastricBypass-InfoCentral , " Dave and Jeanne " > <djgraves@c...> wrote: > > Lynn - You can get used to using water instead of milk. The > reason most of us don't use milk is because it adds a lot of extra > sugar to the drink. Yes, it is a natural sugar, but still sugar. > And many of us are lactose intolerant. I would say if there really > isn't any other way to get you to drink them, then stick with the > milk. If your weight loss stalls down the road, you may try cutting > back on the milk, or using water with a little bit of non-dairy > creamer instead. Take care. > > > > Jeanne in WI > > Age 39 > > Open RNY - 5/21/02 > > Dr. Chua > > 5'8 " - 314/221/150-175 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 I was already postie, so no gallon for me. Only mag citrate. Oh boy. Big time nasty, but um, it did the job. LOL! Thanks, Vitalady, Inc. T www.vitalady.com If you are interested in PayPal, please click here: https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=vitalady%40bigfoot.com Re: protein shakes > > > ---Jeanne,it has stalled now. Maybe that's why. Well, no, come to > think of it, it's probably been a week or more since I had a shake, > (now that I think about it) and possibly a week before that also. I > don't get it, I thought non-dairy creamer was mostly sugar? I've > been on clear liquids today for a colonoscopy tomorrow, so I haven't > been able to try one with water. I'll try it again tomorrow after I > get home from the hospital. The one I tried with water, though, just > turned too solid, there was no way to drink it. Maybe I had too much > ice or not enough water. Thanks. Lynn > > In GastricBypass-InfoCentral , " Dave and Jeanne " > <djgraves@c...> wrote: > > Lynn - You can get used to using water instead of milk. The > reason most of us don't use milk is because it adds a lot of extra > sugar to the drink. Yes, it is a natural sugar, but still sugar. > And many of us are lactose intolerant. I would say if there really > isn't any other way to get you to drink them, then stick with the > milk. If your weight loss stalls down the road, you may try cutting > back on the milk, or using water with a little bit of non-dairy > creamer instead. Take care. > > > > Jeanne in WI > > Age 39 > > Open RNY - 5/21/02 > > Dr. Chua > > 5'8 " - 314/221/150-175 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 I was already postie, so no gallon for me. Only mag citrate. Oh boy. Big time nasty, but um, it did the job. LOL! Thanks, Vitalady, Inc. T www.vitalady.com If you are interested in PayPal, please click here: https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=vitalady%40bigfoot.com Re: protein shakes > > > ---Jeanne,it has stalled now. Maybe that's why. Well, no, come to > think of it, it's probably been a week or more since I had a shake, > (now that I think about it) and possibly a week before that also. I > don't get it, I thought non-dairy creamer was mostly sugar? I've > been on clear liquids today for a colonoscopy tomorrow, so I haven't > been able to try one with water. I'll try it again tomorrow after I > get home from the hospital. The one I tried with water, though, just > turned too solid, there was no way to drink it. Maybe I had too much > ice or not enough water. Thanks. Lynn > > In GastricBypass-InfoCentral , " Dave and Jeanne " > <djgraves@c...> wrote: > > Lynn - You can get used to using water instead of milk. The > reason most of us don't use milk is because it adds a lot of extra > sugar to the drink. Yes, it is a natural sugar, but still sugar. > And many of us are lactose intolerant. I would say if there really > isn't any other way to get you to drink them, then stick with the > milk. If your weight loss stalls down the road, you may try cutting > back on the milk, or using water with a little bit of non-dairy > creamer instead. Take care. > > > > Jeanne in WI > > Age 39 > > Open RNY - 5/21/02 > > Dr. Chua > > 5'8 " - 314/221/150-175 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 oh no I had a full gallon *belch and gag* that stuff tasted like rusty salt water Re: protein shakes > > > > > > ---Jeanne,it has stalled now. Maybe that's why. Well, no, come to > > think of it, it's probably been a week or more since I had a shake, > > (now that I think about it) and possibly a week before that also. I > > don't get it, I thought non-dairy creamer was mostly sugar? I've > > been on clear liquids today for a colonoscopy tomorrow, so I haven't > > been able to try one with water. I'll try it again tomorrow after I > > get home from the hospital. The one I tried with water, though, just > > turned too solid, there was no way to drink it. Maybe I had too much > > ice or not enough water. Thanks. Lynn > > > > In GastricBypass-InfoCentral , " Dave and Jeanne " > > <djgraves@c...> wrote: > > > Lynn - You can get used to using water instead of milk. The > > reason most of us don't use milk is because it adds a lot of extra > > sugar to the drink. Yes, it is a natural sugar, but still sugar. > > And many of us are lactose intolerant. I would say if there really > > isn't any other way to get you to drink them, then stick with the > > milk. If your weight loss stalls down the road, you may try cutting > > back on the milk, or using water with a little bit of non-dairy > > creamer instead. Take care. > > > > > > Jeanne in WI > > > Age 39 > > > Open RNY - 5/21/02 > > > Dr. Chua > > > 5'8 " - 314/221/150-175 > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 mine tasted like Ginger Ale kinda, but not nice Thanks, Vitalady, Inc. T www.vitalady.com If you are interested in PayPal, please click here: https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=vitalady%40bigfoot.com Re: protein shakes > > > > > > ---Jeanne,it has stalled now. Maybe that's why. Well, no, come to > > think of it, it's probably been a week or more since I had a shake, > > (now that I think about it) and possibly a week before that also. I > > don't get it, I thought non-dairy creamer was mostly sugar? I've > > been on clear liquids today for a colonoscopy tomorrow, so I haven't > > been able to try one with water. I'll try it again tomorrow after I > > get home from the hospital. The one I tried with water, though, just > > turned too solid, there was no way to drink it. Maybe I had too much > > ice or not enough water. Thanks. Lynn > > > > In GastricBypass-InfoCentral , " Dave and Jeanne " > > <djgraves@c...> wrote: > > > Lynn - You can get used to using water instead of milk. The > > reason most of us don't use milk is because it adds a lot of extra > > sugar to the drink. Yes, it is a natural sugar, but still sugar. > > And many of us are lactose intolerant. I would say if there really > > isn't any other way to get you to drink them, then stick with the > > milk. If your weight loss stalls down the road, you may try cutting > > back on the milk, or using water with a little bit of non-dairy > > creamer instead. Take care. > > > > > > Jeanne in WI > > > Age 39 > > > Open RNY - 5/21/02 > > > Dr. Chua > > > 5'8 " - 314/221/150-175 > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 Yum. Thanks, Vitalady, Inc. T www.vitalady.com If you are interested in PayPal, please click here: https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=vitalady%40bigfoot.com Re: protein shakes > > > > > > > > > ---Jeanne,it has stalled now. Maybe that's why. Well, no, come to > > > think of it, it's probably been a week or more since I had a shake, > > > (now that I think about it) and possibly a week before that also. I > > > don't get it, I thought non-dairy creamer was mostly sugar? I've > > > been on clear liquids today for a colonoscopy tomorrow, so I haven't > > > been able to try one with water. I'll try it again tomorrow after I > > > get home from the hospital. The one I tried with water, though, just > > > turned too solid, there was no way to drink it. Maybe I had too much > > > ice or not enough water. Thanks. Lynn > > > > > > In GastricBypass-InfoCentral , " Dave and Jeanne " > > > <djgraves@c...> wrote: > > > > Lynn - You can get used to using water instead of milk. The > > > reason most of us don't use milk is because it adds a lot of extra > > > sugar to the drink. Yes, it is a natural sugar, but still sugar. > > > And many of us are lactose intolerant. I would say if there really > > > isn't any other way to get you to drink them, then stick with the > > > milk. If your weight loss stalls down the road, you may try cutting > > > back on the milk, or using water with a little bit of non-dairy > > > creamer instead. Take care. > > > > > > > > Jeanne in WI > > > > Age 39 > > > > Open RNY - 5/21/02 > > > > Dr. Chua > > > > 5'8 " - 314/221/150-175 > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 yea when it is an alternative of rusty salt water Re: protein shakes > > > > > > > > > > > > ---Jeanne,it has stalled now. Maybe that's why. Well, no, come > to > > > > think of it, it's probably been a week or more since I had a > shake, > > > > (now that I think about it) and possibly a week before that > also. I > > > > don't get it, I thought non-dairy creamer was mostly sugar? I've > > > > been on clear liquids today for a colonoscopy tomorrow, so I > haven't > > > > been able to try one with water. I'll try it again tomorrow > after I > > > > get home from the hospital. The one I tried with water, though, > just > > > > turned too solid, there was no way to drink it. Maybe I had too > much > > > > ice or not enough water. Thanks. Lynn > > > > > > > > In GastricBypass-InfoCentral , " Dave and Jeanne " > > > > <djgraves@c...> wrote: > > > > > Lynn - You can get used to using water instead of milk. The > > > > reason most of us don't use milk is because it adds a lot of > extra > > > > sugar to the drink. Yes, it is a natural sugar, but still > sugar. > > > > And many of us are lactose intolerant. I would say if there > really > > > > isn't any other way to get you to drink them, then stick with > the > > > > milk. If your weight loss stalls down the road, you may try > cutting > > > > back on the milk, or using water with a little bit of non-dairy > > > > creamer instead. Take care. > > > > > > > > > > Jeanne in WI > > > > > Age 39 > > > > > Open RNY - 5/21/02 > > > > > Dr. Chua > > > > > 5'8 " - 314/221/150-175 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 hmmmm even before I was post op I had to have a colonoscopy done due to a huge family history of cancer. Here is a bit of advice for you all. Refuse to do the gallon of salt water! (stupidly called Go-lytely, lightly my butt!) Not even the mag citrate! There is something called Fleets Phospho which is a scant 2 ounces! You take it the day before and again the morning of the test. Has kind of a ginger taste, still gross, but hey! we can all choke down 2 ounces! especially with a gallon water chaser! LOLOL Phyllis Re: protein shakes > > > ---Jeanne,it has stalled now. Maybe that's why. Well, no, come to > think of it, it's probably been a week or more since I had a shake, > (now that I think about it) and possibly a week before that also. I > don't get it, I thought non-dairy creamer was mostly sugar? I've > been on clear liquids today for a colonoscopy tomorrow, so I haven't > been able to try one with water. I'll try it again tomorrow after I > get home from the hospital. The one I tried with water, though, just > turned too solid, there was no way to drink it. Maybe I had too much > ice or not enough water. Thanks. Lynn > > In GastricBypass-InfoCentral , " Dave and Jeanne " > <djgraves@c...> wrote: > > Lynn - You can get used to using water instead of milk. The > reason most of us don't use milk is because it adds a lot of extra > sugar to the drink. Yes, it is a natural sugar, but still sugar. > And many of us are lactose intolerant. I would say if there really > isn't any other way to get you to drink them, then stick with the > milk. If your weight loss stalls down the road, you may try cutting > back on the milk, or using water with a little bit of non-dairy > creamer instead. Take care. > > > > Jeanne in WI > > Age 39 > > Open RNY - 5/21/02 > > Dr. Chua > > 5'8 " - 314/221/150-175 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 The nondairy creamer I use says " Sugars O g " . I am 7 years postop, and I don't use milk at all for my shakes or on cereal (rarely eat cereal anyway now). I don't miss it. Truly, if you try and get off the milk, you would be more successful, and also get that protein going for the shakes. Really learn to be a label reader. It truly helps. It does take some practice, but you will become an avid label reader. If I really " need " cereal, I will use a little soy milk (4 grams of sugar or less) just enough to " wet " the cereal, or I will use some Vitamite, same way... just to " wet " it. Watch the sugars and the milks, even " natural " sugars can slow the weight loss down, increase your protein - minimum of three shakes a day, and you will find that your hair, nails, and skin and overall muscle strength will be so much better! Don't worry about the calories from the shakes as long as you are making them with water. Try adding a tbs of powdered nondairy creamer, or FF Mocha Mix if you want more creamy texture. I'm struggling with my protein levels again, and find that MY body needs 180 grams a day of protein. That's when my levels did the best. I am a distal RNY, so I do not absorb as much as a proximal, however, you still do need to get in those shakes. Lovingly, B Distal RNY 12/27/95 275/152 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 You only use a little bit on non-dairy creamer, like a teaspoon or two. Maybe try half milk, half water for a while before going to straight water. Take care. Jeanne in WI Age 39 Open RNY - 5/21/02 Dr. Chua 5'8 " - 314/221/150-175 ---Jeanne,it has stalled now. Maybe that's why. Well, no, come to think of it, it's probably been a week or more since I had a shake, (now that I think about it) and possibly a week before that also. I don't get it, I thought non-dairy creamer was mostly sugar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 THAT is what I took. Not the mag citrate. PHOSPHO SODA! Ginger. With salt. Thanks, Vitalady, Inc. T www.vitalady.com If you are interested in PayPal, please click here: https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=vitalady%40bigfoot.com Re: protein shakes > > > ---Jeanne,it has stalled now. Maybe that's why. Well, no, come to > think of it, it's probably been a week or more since I had a shake, > (now that I think about it) and possibly a week before that also. I > don't get it, I thought non-dairy creamer was mostly sugar? I've > been on clear liquids today for a colonoscopy tomorrow, so I haven't > been able to try one with water. I'll try it again tomorrow after I > get home from the hospital. The one I tried with water, though, just > turned too solid, there was no way to drink it. Maybe I had too much > ice or not enough water. Thanks. Lynn > > In GastricBypass-InfoCentral , " Dave and Jeanne " > <djgraves@c...> wrote: > > Lynn - You can get used to using water instead of milk. The > reason most of us don't use milk is because it adds a lot of extra > sugar to the drink. Yes, it is a natural sugar, but still sugar. > And many of us are lactose intolerant. I would say if there really > isn't any other way to get you to drink them, then stick with the > milk. If your weight loss stalls down the road, you may try cutting > back on the milk, or using water with a little bit of non-dairy > creamer instead. Take care. > > > > Jeanne in WI > > Age 39 > > Open RNY - 5/21/02 > > Dr. Chua > > 5'8 " - 314/221/150-175 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 you mean the oxymoron golytely????????????/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 they don't tell ya, but you can add crystal light to it, and make sure it's cold, it goes down better. Deb Sellman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Well Phyllis, that's all well and good, but as a nurse who's been on the end of cleaning and helping with a colonoscopy when someone refuses the prep, they can't always see what they need to see. Maybe if you've had rny surgery, then I can perhaps see, but the prep does make a big difference if they can do the test or not. Deb Sellman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 ---Thanks. I do need to try that. I'm tired of this stand still. Have a great night. Lynn In GastricBypass-InfoCentral , " Dave and Jeanne " <djgraves@c...> wrote: > You only use a little bit on non-dairy creamer, like a teaspoon or two. Maybe try half milk, half water for a while before going to straight water. Take care. > > Jeanne in WI > Age 39 > Open RNY - 5/21/02 > Dr. Chua > 5'8 " - 314/221/150-175 > > > ---Jeanne,it has stalled now. Maybe that's why. Well, no, come to > think of it, it's probably been a week or more since I had a shake, > (now that I think about it) and possibly a week before that also. I > don't get it, I thought non-dairy creamer was mostly sugar? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 ---Thanks. I do need to try that. I'm tired of this stand still. Have a great night. Lynn In GastricBypass-InfoCentral , " Dave and Jeanne " <djgraves@c...> wrote: > You only use a little bit on non-dairy creamer, like a teaspoon or two. Maybe try half milk, half water for a while before going to straight water. Take care. > > Jeanne in WI > Age 39 > Open RNY - 5/21/02 > Dr. Chua > 5'8 " - 314/221/150-175 > > > ---Jeanne,it has stalled now. Maybe that's why. Well, no, come to > think of it, it's probably been a week or more since I had a shake, > (now that I think about it) and possibly a week before that also. I > don't get it, I thought non-dairy creamer was mostly sugar? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 ---Thanks. I do need to try that. I'm tired of this stand still. Have a great night. Lynn In GastricBypass-InfoCentral , " Dave and Jeanne " <djgraves@c...> wrote: > You only use a little bit on non-dairy creamer, like a teaspoon or two. Maybe try half milk, half water for a while before going to straight water. Take care. > > Jeanne in WI > Age 39 > Open RNY - 5/21/02 > Dr. Chua > 5'8 " - 314/221/150-175 > > > ---Jeanne,it has stalled now. Maybe that's why. Well, no, come to > think of it, it's probably been a week or more since I had a shake, > (now that I think about it) and possibly a week before that also. I > don't get it, I thought non-dairy creamer was mostly sugar? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 ---Thanks. I had no problem with the taste of it. It was okay. But it didn't work as forcefully as most people told me to expect. I went maybe an hour or more in between trips to the bathroom. Lynn In GastricBypass-InfoCentral , " Debbie Sellman " <iluvirises@a...> wrote: > they don't tell ya, but you can add crystal light to it, and make sure it's cold, it goes down better. > > Deb Sellman > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 LOL when I remember! actually I have added like a small apple a day and that seems to be helping some. And my B12 and folate were too high, so I have had to cut the trinsicon back to once a day, so that seems to help too. That dang iron will get ya every time! LOL Re: Re: protein shakes Phyllis - Are you doing stool softeners? It should help make it easier to go. Jeanne in WI Age 39 Open RNY - 5/21/02 Dr. Chua 5'8 " - 314/221/150-175 Hi Deb, I am also a nurse, and this is what my gastroenterologist orders for the prep for the very reason that it DOES a good job and people will be compliant. There are very few people that are compliant with a gallon of golytely. Actually since the RNY I think I will need the Fleets phospho plus dynamite for my next prep prior to a colonoscopy! man! everyone told me I would have diarrhea. Never having been blessed with children, this is the closes I can come to thinking I am possibly giving birth once a week! LOL Phyllis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 I have been using Isopure protein shake, Dutch choc., for almost 2 weeks. Now, I feel nauseated when I drink it. I only use 1/2 scoop to 3 oz. of milk & water or just plain water. I guess I have to find a new brand. Hard to get out. Very cold and icy in NY. Arlene Re: Re: protein shakes The nondairy creamer I use says " Sugars O g " . - so far I haven't had any luck finding a 0 gram of sugar nondairy creamer. What brand do you use and where do you buy it? Thanks, Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 I have been using Isopure protein shake, Dutch choc., for almost 2 weeks. Now, I feel nauseated when I drink it. I only use 1/2 scoop to 3 oz. of milk & water or just plain water. I guess I have to find a new brand. Hard to get out. Very cold and icy in NY. Arlene Re: Re: protein shakes The nondairy creamer I use says " Sugars O g " . - so far I haven't had any luck finding a 0 gram of sugar nondairy creamer. What brand do you use and where do you buy it? Thanks, Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 I have been using Isopure protein shake, Dutch choc., for almost 2 weeks. Now, I feel nauseated when I drink it. I only use 1/2 scoop to 3 oz. of milk & water or just plain water. I guess I have to find a new brand. Hard to get out. Very cold and icy in NY. Arlene Re: Re: protein shakes The nondairy creamer I use says " Sugars O g " . - so far I haven't had any luck finding a 0 gram of sugar nondairy creamer. What brand do you use and where do you buy it? Thanks, Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 In a message dated 2/12/2003 2:00:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, laura.rose3@... writes: > - so far I haven't had any luck finding a 0 gram of sugar nondairy > creamer. What brand do you use and where do you buy it? > Thanks, > Rose > I buy it at Wal-Mart. It's Non-Dairy Creamer. Runs about 2 bucks 1 tsp - .5 g fat 0 g sat fat Cholesterol 0 mg Sodium 0 mg Potassium 20 mg Carbs 1 g Sugars 0 gram Protein o gram Calories 10 cals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 In a message dated 2/12/2003 2:00:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, laura.rose3@... writes: > - so far I haven't had any luck finding a 0 gram of sugar nondairy > creamer. What brand do you use and where do you buy it? > Thanks, > Rose > I buy it at Wal-Mart. It's Non-Dairy Creamer. Runs about 2 bucks 1 tsp - .5 g fat 0 g sat fat Cholesterol 0 mg Sodium 0 mg Potassium 20 mg Carbs 1 g Sugars 0 gram Protein o gram Calories 10 cals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 In a message dated 2/12/2003 2:00:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, laura.rose3@... writes: > - so far I haven't had any luck finding a 0 gram of sugar nondairy > creamer. What brand do you use and where do you buy it? > Thanks, > Rose > I buy it at Wal-Mart. It's Non-Dairy Creamer. Runs about 2 bucks 1 tsp - .5 g fat 0 g sat fat Cholesterol 0 mg Sodium 0 mg Potassium 20 mg Carbs 1 g Sugars 0 gram Protein o gram Calories 10 cals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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