Re: processing issues

[Guest guest]

Jill,

I hope that they are part of this testing because I don't even really know what

processing problems are, but just common sense tells me that something is going

on in the way his brain is processing information. He has every reason in the

world to have had some kind of brain/learning issues with what he's been through

with the heart surgeries, coupled with his walking around with oxygen levels in

his blood for the last 5 years at 80-85% (The last surgery in May raised them

to 98-99. But I don't know what the low sats did to him all those previous

years. The cardiologists say kids can live with sats that low for years and

years and have no problems, but you just never know...)

I think the testing will cover that area. I would think that just because he

can't hear like a normal kid, there's got to be some kind of " processing of

information " lapses or delays when he has to think about the words and what they

mean because he hasn't heard them for a long time. He has only had the one ear

aided full time for about a month, and his left ear still doesn't hear speech

correctly. In fact that idiot (sorry) educational audiologists sat in that PPT

meeting and the only word she said during the whole thing was that because he

has uneven hearing, that his right hear aided can hear all speech and the left

can't, he would inherently have processing problems. Everyone at the table

said, " Oh, really? " and wanted to know more, but she didn't say anything else, I

didn't know what it all meant so I didn't persue it, and she never said, " Well,

maybe WE SHOULD GET HIM TESTED!!! " No. she just sat there, and I had to find it

all out two months later at conferences. (Can you tell I'm angry?) Anyway, I

have no idea what it all means, which is why we need to get on with the testing.

Trish

Re: More from Trish and Bobby

In a message dated 5/6/2006 4:33:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

chester2001@... writes:

... but this is kind of repetetion because he needs to HEAR it again and

again. Hear it and understand it. If I ask him what he heard me say, what

does

he understand of it, his reacall and understanding of the story is pretty

good. But I wonder if there's some kind of processing thing going on in his

brain so that he can totally make the story part of his memory. I don't

know.

Trish

Our Ian has processing and memory issues. After you describe your phone

after the second accident, it sounds as though Bobby is getting the content

and

perhaps it is more reassurance than a processing thing. And it could be a bit

of both.

Not that you want to add more to your plate right now, but if you are

concerned about it, processing and memory issues can be tested for. Ian's

were

initially identified as part of the school's standardized testing in order to

classify him. I forget the names of the tests, but perhaps this is part of

the

type of testing that you've just had done or requesting from the school.

Ian was about Bobby's age when the processing and memory issues were

identified. I am now wondering if the testing your school has proposed or done

will

cover this as well. The tests are among the standard collection given to all

kids in NY as part of the pre-classification testing.

Have you gotten any test results yet or know the names of any of the tests

they used?

I know that Ian's issues will never really go away -- they were caused by a

non-genetic syndrome (which reduced blood flow to his brain during the 6th

week of gestation.) Some of the issues it caused are the processing and

memory

ones, among a few others -- basically some rather limited brain damage.

He'll never be rid of those issues, instead he has learned techniques that

help him cope. Ways to get things past short term and into long term memory.

He's learned to plan his time and begin things as soon as they are assigned.

In

short, he has been helped to find the coping techniques that work for him.

If those tests are not among the ones given, at some point when you feel up

to it, you can request them.

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

The processing that is to do with the brain's executive functioning (rather

than processing of sound for hearing issues) can be tested with several

tests. Some of the ones I've just looked up from my daughter's previous

tests (she used to get the 3 year school testing for her IEP but also pre

and post any scheduled brain surgery):

WAIS III (Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale) which also come in a version

for young kids (3-7 years) the WPPSI and older kids WISC (7-16 years). This

one measures verbal comprehension, perceptual organization as well as

working memory and processing speed. The first two combine for the

(in)famous IQ score. As far as I can tell these are usually administered by

a psychiatrist

At school they used the WIAT II (Wechsler Individual Achievement Test) -

this is the one where they give a grade equivalent after the score to give

some idea of academic progress

There is also the WRAML2 (Wide Range Assessment of Memory & Learning) and

CVLT II (California Verbal Learning Test) which both give a lot of

information on how someone uses memory and if there are issues there.

You can look these up online for more specific info.

I think the most important thing I learnt when I started getting this kind

of feedback about my daughter, and Jill has mentioned this, is that the

tests can give you and the school vital clues as to what kind of help will

most benefit your particular child. For example, in my daughter's case, her

verbal IQ is high but her processing speed and memory have been damaged. So

it would take her ages to complete the usual math assignments for homework

but we were able to persuade the school that doing half the number of

problems in twice the time could demonstrate that she understood the

concept, so they would modify her assignments accordingly. Ditto for untimed

tests etc.

Hope this helps.

Fiona

_____

From: Listen-Up [mailto:Listen-Up ] On Behalf

Of JillcWood@...

Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 12:23 PM

To: Listen-Up

Subject: Re: Re: processing issues

TIn a message dated 5/6/2006 5:51:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

chester2001@... writes:

In fact that idiot (sorry) educational audiologists sat in that PPT meeting

and the only word she said during the whole thing was that because he has

uneven hearing, that his right hear aided can hear all speech and the left

can't, he would inherently have processing problems.

Trish (and everyone else of course)

I think she was being a bit obscure in her statement. Yes, there will be a

processing imbalance because information is coming from one side, but the

brain

has an amazing ability to adjust itself and adapt.

Ian's hearing loss was initially a unilateral one. When he was between 9

and

10 his left ear did a sudden drop to make it a bilateral loss. So, we then

aided the second ear -- has actually requested the aid before we knew about

the

sudden drop. Because of his aid in his right ear, he knew something had

happened to the left before we did.

<<I think the testing will cover that area. I would think that just because

he can't hear like a normal kid, there's got to be some kind of " processing

of information " lapses or delays when he has to think about the words and

what

they mean because he hasn't heard them for a long time.>>

Before we suspected a hearing loss, we were certain we were dealing with

some sort of processing delay. It was that same common sense kind of thing

that

you are feeling. There was this pause when you spoke with Ian. He laughed

at

jokes about a beat behind where everyone else did. He'd laugh with a hearty

laugh, and we knew he understood what was said. But we knew there was this

slight delay in things getting to his brain.We referred to it as " Ian time "

because everything was just a touch slower.

We do a lot of word play in our general conversation, not just bad puns,

but

banter. Ian gets it, he can keep up at a slightly reduced speed, but he

understands the content and always had. So we knew that he had the capacity

to do

well in school subjects but there was something about the way information

was

getting in and out. And there were a few things he just didn't get, like

idioms. He thought sayings like " et the cat out of the bag " were the

funniest

things because he took them literally. This is apparently a common thing for

D/HOH kids.

<<No. she just sat there, and I had to find it all out two months later at

conferences. (Can you tell I'm angry?) Anyway, I have no idea what it

all

means, which is why we need to get on with the testing>>

Form our experience what it means is learning strategies. You obviously

know

how to teach your son, from what you've described you're doing the right

stuff. When you described his phone conversation, you described someone who

is

getting the content of what's said and what's happening around him. But you

already know that. So, be reassured that if a processing issue is at play

here,

there are all kinds of strategies for coping with it.

For instance, Ian's notes need to be rearranged by him in the evenings. He

takes his notes and puts them into flow chart-like " maps " that organize the

content and adds in more details as he remembers them. This reinforces the

concepts by having him re-write and re-think his notes. It also puts them

in a

logical order for studying later on. Our TOD learned of this mapping

application at a conference and immediately realized it would work for Ian.

His science

and history teachers saw his notebooks for the usual grading and review,

and

asked to be taught the technique because they want to try to teach it to

their regular students. Or simply use it themselves when preparing for their

classes.

All along his TOD has come up with strategies that work for Ian. The

effects

of the processing and hearing issues overlap, yet there have been

strategies

available at every age that have helped him cope with what he needed at

that

age. She's told me that the strategies that work for him don't necessarily

work for other kids. Every kid is different.

When you get the specific information about the testing, come and share it.

We've talked before about which tests have been used for our kids and which

ones were helpful. If they don't do the testing that identifies this kind

of

stuff, then we'll be able to give you some to request that will.

There's just so much information on every front for these kids. It's tough

to even have a clue what to ask. Ian is now having his triennial (schools

are

required to re-test every 3 years) and I had to request certain tests (the

processing and memory ones!!) because they haven't done them for about 8

years

and we need current results on those for SAT accommodations and then for

colleges. You'd think they'd know that! They never ran them again because

they'd

accepted the original results and knew the issues weren't going to go away

so why waste time confirming what they already knew? But they also should

have

known they needed current documentation for the SATs. (sigh) It never

really ends.

Sorry to ramble, but I just finished signing the approval for the requested

testing (the tests names aren't listed or I'd share them in the email.)

and

reading the note from the nurse practitioner who did a physical evaluation.

It lists the " abnormalities " she noticed. We've seen countless specialist

about each and everything listed. The doctors' results and recommendations

are in

Ian's files. Yet they have to alert me to them anyway. The whole things

just

gives me an ironic chuckle. Even after everything is finally running

smoothly for Ian at his school, I'm still double checking them all the

time.

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

The processing that is to do with the brain's executive functioning (rather

than processing of sound for hearing issues) can be tested with several

tests. Some of the ones I've just looked up from my daughter's previous

tests (she used to get the 3 year school testing for her IEP but also pre

and post any scheduled brain surgery):

WAIS III (Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale) which also come in a version

for young kids (3-7 years) the WPPSI and older kids WISC (7-16 years). This

one measures verbal comprehension, perceptual organization as well as

working memory and processing speed. The first two combine for the

(in)famous IQ score. As far as I can tell these are usually administered by

a psychiatrist

At school they used the WIAT II (Wechsler Individual Achievement Test) -

this is the one where they give a grade equivalent after the score to give

some idea of academic progress

There is also the WRAML2 (Wide Range Assessment of Memory & Learning) and

CVLT II (California Verbal Learning Test) which both give a lot of

information on how someone uses memory and if there are issues there.

You can look these up online for more specific info.

I think the most important thing I learnt when I started getting this kind

of feedback about my daughter, and Jill has mentioned this, is that the

tests can give you and the school vital clues as to what kind of help will

most benefit your particular child. For example, in my daughter's case, her

verbal IQ is high but her processing speed and memory have been damaged. So

it would take her ages to complete the usual math assignments for homework

but we were able to persuade the school that doing half the number of

problems in twice the time could demonstrate that she understood the

concept, so they would modify her assignments accordingly. Ditto for untimed

tests etc.

Hope this helps.

Fiona

_____

From: Listen-Up [mailto:Listen-Up ] On Behalf

Of JillcWood@...

Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 12:23 PM

To: Listen-Up

Subject: Re: Re: processing issues

TIn a message dated 5/6/2006 5:51:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

chester2001@... writes:

In fact that idiot (sorry) educational audiologists sat in that PPT meeting

and the only word she said during the whole thing was that because he has

uneven hearing, that his right hear aided can hear all speech and the left

can't, he would inherently have processing problems.

Trish (and everyone else of course)

I think she was being a bit obscure in her statement. Yes, there will be a

processing imbalance because information is coming from one side, but the

brain

has an amazing ability to adjust itself and adapt.

Ian's hearing loss was initially a unilateral one. When he was between 9

and

10 his left ear did a sudden drop to make it a bilateral loss. So, we then

aided the second ear -- has actually requested the aid before we knew about

the

sudden drop. Because of his aid in his right ear, he knew something had

happened to the left before we did.

<<I think the testing will cover that area. I would think that just because

he can't hear like a normal kid, there's got to be some kind of " processing

of information " lapses or delays when he has to think about the words and

what

they mean because he hasn't heard them for a long time.>>

Before we suspected a hearing loss, we were certain we were dealing with

some sort of processing delay. It was that same common sense kind of thing

that

you are feeling. There was this pause when you spoke with Ian. He laughed

at

jokes about a beat behind where everyone else did. He'd laugh with a hearty

laugh, and we knew he understood what was said. But we knew there was this

slight delay in things getting to his brain.We referred to it as " Ian time "

because everything was just a touch slower.

We do a lot of word play in our general conversation, not just bad puns,

but

banter. Ian gets it, he can keep up at a slightly reduced speed, but he

understands the content and always had. So we knew that he had the capacity

to do

well in school subjects but there was something about the way information

was

getting in and out. And there were a few things he just didn't get, like

idioms. He thought sayings like " et the cat out of the bag " were the

funniest

things because he took them literally. This is apparently a common thing for

D/HOH kids.

<<No. she just sat there, and I had to find it all out two months later at

conferences. (Can you tell I'm angry?) Anyway, I have no idea what it

all

means, which is why we need to get on with the testing>>

Form our experience what it means is learning strategies. You obviously

know

how to teach your son, from what you've described you're doing the right

stuff. When you described his phone conversation, you described someone who

is

getting the content of what's said and what's happening around him. But you

already know that. So, be reassured that if a processing issue is at play

here,

there are all kinds of strategies for coping with it.

For instance, Ian's notes need to be rearranged by him in the evenings. He

takes his notes and puts them into flow chart-like " maps " that organize the

content and adds in more details as he remembers them. This reinforces the

concepts by having him re-write and re-think his notes. It also puts them

in a

logical order for studying later on. Our TOD learned of this mapping

application at a conference and immediately realized it would work for Ian.

His science

and history teachers saw his notebooks for the usual grading and review,

and

asked to be taught the technique because they want to try to teach it to

their regular students. Or simply use it themselves when preparing for their

classes.

All along his TOD has come up with strategies that work for Ian. The

effects

of the processing and hearing issues overlap, yet there have been

strategies

available at every age that have helped him cope with what he needed at

that

age. She's told me that the strategies that work for him don't necessarily

work for other kids. Every kid is different.

When you get the specific information about the testing, come and share it.

We've talked before about which tests have been used for our kids and which

ones were helpful. If they don't do the testing that identifies this kind

of

stuff, then we'll be able to give you some to request that will.

There's just so much information on every front for these kids. It's tough

to even have a clue what to ask. Ian is now having his triennial (schools

are

required to re-test every 3 years) and I had to request certain tests (the

processing and memory ones!!) because they haven't done them for about 8

years

and we need current results on those for SAT accommodations and then for

colleges. You'd think they'd know that! They never ran them again because

they'd

accepted the original results and knew the issues weren't going to go away

so why waste time confirming what they already knew? But they also should

have

known they needed current documentation for the SATs. (sigh) It never

really ends.

Sorry to ramble, but I just finished signing the approval for the requested

testing (the tests names aren't listed or I'd share them in the email.)

and

reading the note from the nurse practitioner who did a physical evaluation.

It lists the " abnormalities " she noticed. We've seen countless specialist

about each and everything listed. The doctors' results and recommendations

are in

Ian's files. Yet they have to alert me to them anyway. The whole things

just

gives me an ironic chuckle. Even after everything is finally running

smoothly for Ian at his school, I'm still double checking them all the

time.

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

Fiona,

The WPSSI is included in the battery of tests the school for the Deaf and HOH

will be administering. So that is very helpful information to have...it will

give us hints about how he processes information and that can't hurt to know in

case we have to modify something. Supposedly the person in charge of special

services is back in the office tomorrow and we'll see if they can schedule a PPT

soon and I get some kind of response. Hopefully, SOMEONE will call me tomorrow,

but I almost hate Mondays because there is a chance I'll get somewhere and when

I don't, I get bummed out. At least on a weekend, I know there's no hope of

getting help. Sounds ludicrous, but it's true.

Tomorrow is my birthday, maybe SOMEONE will call back!

Trish

[Guest guest]

Fiona,

The WPSSI is included in the battery of tests the school for the Deaf and HOH

will be administering. So that is very helpful information to have...it will

give us hints about how he processes information and that can't hurt to know in

case we have to modify something. Supposedly the person in charge of special

services is back in the office tomorrow and we'll see if they can schedule a PPT

soon and I get some kind of response. Hopefully, SOMEONE will call me tomorrow,

but I almost hate Mondays because there is a chance I'll get somewhere and when

I don't, I get bummed out. At least on a weekend, I know there's no hope of

getting help. Sounds ludicrous, but it's true.

Tomorrow is my birthday, maybe SOMEONE will call back!

Trish

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/7/2006 3:39:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

fiona_penman@... writes:

As far as I can tell these are usually administered by

a psychiatrist

These are some of the tests Ian has taken in the past. But they have never

been administered by a psychiatrist. The school's psychologist has given them

as part of the standardized testing. And when we've requested different or

specialized tests, either the psychologist or the TOD has administered them.

However, the results were reviewed by our clinical psychologists, pediatric

neurologist, geneticist and others who would find the results useful in

helping our son.

<<So it would take her ages to complete the usual math assignments for

homework

but we were able to persuade the school that doing half the number of

problems in twice the time could demonstrate that she understood the concept,

so

they would modify her assignments accordingly. Ditto for untimed tests etc.>>

We've had those same accommodations for Ian for a long time now. Over the

years, as his math skills have grown, his need for extra time has diminished.

But he still needs it for certain circumstances, and so it remains part of his

plan. The goal has always been mastery of the subject matter, not finishing

in a set amount of time.

Another thing Ian would do is start a test and get 2/3 of the way through

it, getting almost all the answers correct and then leave the rest unfinished.

" I ran out of time " was his reason. So the teacher started to come up to him

and ay things like " 2 minutes left " so he would rush through the last 1/3 and

get almost all of them wrong, since he didn't even have time to read the

questions, let alone think about them. Those test results helped us force them

to

recognize that his accommodations were not being followed by the classroom

teacher or the Spec Ed teacher. Not a pleasant thing. The teacher actually

said we were " babying him " and the spec ed teacher wanted to move him back a

grade in math because he " could finish that work in the allotted time. " (can

you hear me pulling my hair out at this memory? LOL) Life got so much better

once he hit middle school!

But nobody should get depressed when I say middle school got better. Don't

forget that ours is a very late identification. Ian was identified at the very

end of 2nd grade (but the hearing loss was mis-identified for another year).

Accommodations were put in place for 3rd grade and were very successful, but

nothing was put on paper officially. (How can they do that? Who knows!) The

principal retired and at the beginning of 4th grade, no services, no

paperwork, nothing. And the classroom teacher refused to follow any of the

plans that

had been in place during 3rd grade. We didn't even know that he had never

been formally classified because all the letters from the principal sounded as

though he had. It was all " handled at the building level. " And the fight was

on ... thank goodness it's pretty much over!

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

My son also had a test called the TAPS-R Test of Auditory Perceptual

Skills-Revised

Elaine

[Guest guest]

You're absolutely right Jill, it is psychologist not psychiatrist that I

meant! Whereas the WIAT II was done by the special ed staff.

With regard to the lack of follow through by individual teachers, this seems

to be a recurring story everywhere. I think the best we can do as parents is

to teach our kids how to respectfully hold their ground when something is

being denied (it always amazes me how well even a young kid can deal with it

at times). There will, inevitably, be times when we need to intervene with

the school as well and it can be very upsetting for the kids as they get

older because they understand how much difference having the accommodation

makes to their grade. It took me quite a while to realize how important it

was for my daughter that I support her feelings instead of making excuses

for a new teacher (eg " I'll email her later, maybe no-one told her yet "

would get my daughter so angry at me for not seeing that we weren't asking

for any favors, this was her due!).

I understand what you're saying about the getting 2/3 of the way through

with most of the answers correct as well - when Samira was taking the SATs

she had extended time but they only give you double the allotted time which

was not sufficient for her. When we got the results, which show the

student's answers and which ones were correct I saw she had left a whole

section out because she just hadn't got to it in time (oh, well.).

Fiona

_____

From: Listen-Up [mailto:Listen-Up ] On Behalf

Of JillcWood@...

Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 10:44 AM

To: Listen-Up

Subject: Re: Re: processing issues

In a message dated 5/7/2006 3:39:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

fiona_penman@... writes:

As far as I can tell these are usually administered by

a psychiatrist

These are some of the tests Ian has taken in the past. But they have never

been administered by a psychiatrist. The school's psychologist has given

them

as part of the standardized testing. And when we've requested different or

specialized tests, either the psychologist or the TOD has administered

them.

However, the results were reviewed by our clinical psychologists, pediatric

neurologist, geneticist and others who would find the results useful in

helping our son.

<<So it would take her ages to complete the usual math assignments for

homework

but we were able to persuade the school that doing half the number of

problems in twice the time could demonstrate that she understood the

concept, so

they would modify her assignments accordingly. Ditto for untimed tests

etc.>>

We've had those same accommodations for Ian for a long time now. Over the

years, as his math skills have grown, his need for extra time has

diminished.

But he still needs it for certain circumstances, and so it remains part of

his

plan. The goal has always been mastery of the subject matter, not finishing

in a set amount of time.

Another thing Ian would do is start a test and get 2/3 of the way through

it, getting almost all the answers correct and then leave the rest

unfinished.

" I ran out of time " was his reason. So the teacher started to come up to him

and ay things like " 2 minutes left " so he would rush through the last 1/3

and

get almost all of them wrong, since he didn't even have time to read the

questions, let alone think about them. Those test results helped us force

them to

recognize that his accommodations were not being followed by the classroom

teacher or the Spec Ed teacher. Not a pleasant thing. The teacher actually

said we were " babying him " and the spec ed teacher wanted to move him back

a

grade in math because he " could finish that work in the allotted time. "

(can

you hear me pulling my hair out at this memory? LOL) Life got so much

better

once he hit middle school!

But nobody should get depressed when I say middle school got better. Don't

forget that ours is a very late identification. Ian was identified at the

very

end of 2nd grade (but the hearing loss was mis-identified for another

year).

Accommodations were put in place for 3rd grade and were very successful,

but

nothing was put on paper officially. (How can they do that? Who knows!) The

principal retired and at the beginning of 4th grade, no services, no

paperwork, nothing. And the classroom teacher refused to follow any of the

plans that

had been in place during 3rd grade. We didn't even know that he had never

been formally classified because all the letters from the principal sounded

as

though he had. It was all " handled at the building level. " And the fight

was

on ... thank goodness it's pretty much over!

Best -- Jill