Guest guest Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Don’t MOST or even ALL Therapists/Counselors look to rule out and/or INCLUDE PHYSICAL reasons for depression, irritability, weight gain, etc? I know when I started counseling YEARS ago and I mean decades ago....they sent me off for a physcial to get blood work to check for thyroid and stuff like that. Sue In the UK almost all counsellors and psychotherapists fund their own training, therapy and supervision ///////////////// They do in the US too. I manage a psychology practice and we actually bring on post doctoral students for their post doc internships-the pay is quite minimal...we also offer flat out supervision for a fee... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 jytdtp wrote: Don’t MOST or even ALL Therapists/Counselors look to rule out and/or INCLUDE PHYSICAL reasons for depression, irritability, weight gain, etc?I know when I started counseling YEARS ago and I mean decades ago....they sent me off for a physcial to get blood work to check for thyroid and stuff like that.Sue Sue: I should think that would be a good question. When I started with this lady I see now, I told her that I needed to see her because of my medical problem. She told me she didn't know anything about it...but I figured she'd be VERY interested since that is kind of her job. I've tried to show her my lab work, and she doesn't seem all that interested in it. The regular phsycotherapists like her...aren't medical doctors so...apparently that is their out. WELL..it turns out that not only is she not interested in learning about it...she seems resistant to anything I say about it. She keeps trying to change the subject..and keeps asking me what my future plans are. THAT's actually the most annoying question since I have no future if I'm not well. SHE says I should be "open" to recognizing that as a possiblity and its her job to tell me that... If she doesn't know about it and is unwilling to learn...then why think your patient won't recover...and why try to plant that in the patient's head? Of course if I had a patient telling me some wild story about a bizzarre debilitating illness, I would want to know if they had that disease to begin with. This one doesn't beleive me...and yet has no reason to think I'm lying because she has never researched it herself. ~E:) On 8/10/06 4:05 PM, "Willyorca" <willyorca (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote: In the UK almost all counsellors and psychotherapistsfund their own training, therapy and supervision/////////////////They do in the US too. I manage a psychology practice and we actually bring on post doctoral students for their post doc internships-the pay is quite minimal...we also offer flat out supervision for a fee... ~EG Connecticut T-T 27 months ago - 58.92 mcg Synthetic plus 116.25 mg Armour = 203.96 mcgs RATIO: 88 % T4 / 12% T3 Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Most psychotherapists/counsellors certainly do not have medical training. Most therapists would want to know what medical condition has been diagnosed and what medication a client is taking, in case of overdose etc. To know the psychological impact of each medical condition is impossible; each person is impacted in different ways. I meet once a month with friends who are all practising counsellors. All of them suggested that my illness was to do with past issues and current ways of handling stressful situations. One of those friends who also teaches on counselling courses had RAI and now takes thyroxine. She is quite happy on a fairly low dose and has never had unpleasant symptoms. Even she couldn't empathise with my situation. I do believe that as long as mainstream medicine denies the reality of hypothyroid experience for many of us, there is no chance of a 'trickle down' of knowledge to the therapists. Of significance also is the theoretical stance of the therapist. Each 'school' takes a different approach which may or may not suit the client. Do you want someone to 'just listen' or maybe you need structure and strategies for coping. If you want a healing relationship then don't go to an analyst etc. I decided some time ago that therapy has nothing to offer an undertreated HypoT. However, coincidentally, this evening I was reading posts on another group and there was one from a woman who is just completing her counselling training requesting case histories from members so that she might educate her colleagues. Maybe there is hope. --- E Gillespie wrote: > > > jytdtp wrote: > > Don’t MOST or even ALL Therapists/Counselors look to > rule out and/or INCLUDE PHYSICAL reasons for > depression, irritability, weight gain, etc? > I know when I started counseling YEARS ago and I > mean decades ago....they sent me off for a physcial > to get blood work to check for thyroid and stuff > like that. > > Sue > > Sue: > I should think that would be a good question. > When I started with this lady I see now, I told her > that I needed to see her because of my medical > problem. She told me she didn't know anything about > it...but I figured she'd be VERY interested since > that is kind of her job. > > I've tried to show her my lab work, and she > doesn't seem all that interested in it. The regular > phsycotherapists like her...aren't medical doctors > so...apparently that is their out. > WELL..it turns out that not only is she not > interested in learning about it...she seems > resistant to anything I say about it. > She keeps trying to change the subject..and keeps > asking me what my future plans are. THAT's actually > the most annoying question since I have no future if > I'm not well. SHE says I should be " open " to > recognizing that as a possiblity and its her job to > tell me that... > If she doesn't know about it and is unwilling to > learn...then why think your patient won't > recover...and why try to plant that in the patient's > head? > Of course if I had a patient telling me some wild > story about a bizzarre debilitating illness, I would > want to know if they had that disease to begin with. > > This one doesn't beleive me...and yet has no > reason to think I'm lying because she has never > researched it herself. > ~E:) > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/10/06 4:05 PM, " Willyorca " > wrote: > > > > > > > In the UK almost all counsellors and > psychotherapists > fund their own training, therapy and supervision > ///////////////// > They do in the US too. I manage a psychology > practice and we actually bring on post doctoral > students for their post doc internships-the pay is > quite minimal...we also offer flat out supervision > for a fee... > > > > > > > ~EG Connecticut T-T 27 months ago - 58.92 mcg > Synthetic > plus 116.25 mg Armour = 203.96 mcgs RATIO: 88 % > T4 / 12% T3 > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check > it out. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Sigh I could so go into this, I would just like to say, unfortunately they have gotten to the point where if you even show any amt of emotional issues (crying in the doctor office) etc. You are ultimately diagnosed with depression. For10 years if not more I was diagnossed as " severe depression " with a few other diagnosis and 10 years later I said to my psych why if I have this severe depression etc arent any of the meds working all they are doing is making me numb and fat. You know his response was this. Deana, you do not have chemical imbalance. You are an extremely Highly Sensitive Person . With Situational Depression and Situational Anxiety. We all once we are saved recieve gifts from God, I was blessed (sometimes a curse) with the gift of empathy. I can feel peoples pain, happiness, etc, people that I dont even know. It got to the point where I felt others emotions more then my own and these psychs thought it their " best interest " to medicate. Thank the Lord I am off ALL of those medications now. Don't misread me, their are people with chemical imbalance that may need them. I unfortunately was one of 80% percent diagnosed with depression that really dont have chemical imbalance. anyway i would also like to add, when i put myself in the hospital last year, i found out from getting copies of my record that they tested my tsh the first night i was in (in the psych ward) my TSH was 13. 57 and I was armour then, which wasn't working (i think i was in what topper calles thyroid storm) which i didnt know about then, I also found out... that I was severely dehydrated. (I was nursing at the time and lost 50 lbs the first few months) Apparantly I was not eating enough to keep me sustained and my child. I had never nursed before, and everything I read on nursing never once said the importance over and over again of drinking liquids almost hourly and eating as if you were pregnant. I unfortunately had to abrubtly stop nursing because they started me on all kinds of psych meds. My son and I suffered a horrible sepperation that could have been spared had PHYSICAL issues been treated first, and me sent home. Let me add it also helps to have a personal relationship with Jesus. I am not trying to push my religion here I understand this is nto a christian based group but I am a christian and would like to thank my Heavenly Father that I am now psych med free and the experiences have brought me and my family closer to Him. Best regards and Love Deana jytdtp wrote: > > Don’t MOST or even ALL Therapists/Counselors look to rule out and/or > INCLUDE PHYSICAL reasons for depression, irritability, weight gain, etc? > I know when I started counseling YEARS ago and I mean decades > ago....they sent me off for a physcial to get blood work to check for > thyroid and stuff like that. > > Sue > > > > > > > > In the UK almost all counsellors and psychotherapists > fund their own training, therapy and supervision > ///////////////// > They do in the US too. I manage a psychology practice and we > actually bring on post doctoral students for their post doc > internships-the pay is quite minimal...we also offer flat out > supervision for a fee... > * > * > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 This has all brought me even further to His direction also, Deana. Re: psch vs phsical stuff Sigh I could so go into this, I would just like to say, unfortunately they have gotten to the point where if you even show any amt of emotional issues (crying in the doctor office) etc. You are ultimately diagnosed with depression. For10 years if not more I was diagnossed as " severe depression " with a few other diagnosis and 10 years later I said to my psych why if I have this severe depression etc arent any of the meds working all they are doing is making me numb and fat. You know his response was this. Deana, you do not have chemical imbalance. You are an extremely Highly Sensitive Person . With Situational Depression and Situational Anxiety. We all once we are saved recieve gifts from God, I was blessed (sometimes a curse) with the gift of empathy. I can feel peoples pain, happiness, etc, people that I dont even know. It got to the point where I felt others emotions more then my own and these psychs thought it their " best interest " to medicate. Thank the Lord I am off ALL of those medications now. Don't misread me, their are people with chemical imbalance that may need them. I unfortunately was one of 80% percent diagnosed with depression that really dont have chemical imbalance. anyway i would also like to add, when i put myself in the hospital last year, i found out from getting copies of my record that they tested my tsh the first night i was in (in the psych ward) my TSH was 13. 57 and I was armour then, which wasn't working (i think i was in what topper calles thyroid storm) which i didnt know about then, I also found out... that I was severely dehydrated. (I was nursing at the time and lost 50 lbs the first few months) Apparantly I was not eating enough to keep me sustained and my child. I had never nursed before, and everything I read on nursing never once said the importance over and over again of drinking liquids almost hourly and eating as if you were pregnant. I unfortunately had to abrubtly stop nursing because they started me on all kinds of psych meds. My son and I suffered a horrible sepperation that could have been spared had PHYSICAL issues been treated first, and me sent home. Let me add it also helps to have a personal relationship with Jesus. I am not trying to push my religion here I understand this is nto a christian based group but I am a christian and would like to thank my Heavenly Father that I am now psych med free and the experiences have brought me and my family closer to Him. Best regards and Love Deana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Hi Deana & , I missed your post so I am glad that didn't but my reading this morning seems to say it all from Gen: 45: 3-8. Stories of ph always seem to impact my life a lot and here it is about how bad things are allowed by the Father to bring us to a place of His choosing for such a time as this. Nothing is out of His control even when we sream and squirm at the pressure. It takes lots of pressure to make a diamond and that is what we are, in the making, and He sees the end result when we don't and all that we experience is going to make us better. I am always teased about being a Barnabus, a comforter/empathic, so I know how you feel for others. In Him Dawn > > This has all brought me even further to His direction also, Deana. > > > > Re: psch vs phsical stuff > > > Sigh I could so go into this, I would just like to say, unfortunately > they have gotten to the point where if you even show any amt of > emotional issues (crying in the doctor office) etc. You are ultimately > diagnosed with depression. For10 years if not more I was diagnossed as > " severe depression " with a few other diagnosis and 10 years later I said > to my psych why if I have this severe depression etc arent any of the > meds working all they are doing is making me numb and fat. You know his > response was this. Deana, you do not have chemical imbalance. You are an > extremely Highly Sensitive Person . With Situational Depression and > Situational Anxiety. We all once we are saved recieve gifts from God, I > was blessed (sometimes a curse) with the gift of empathy. I can feel > peoples pain, happiness, etc, people that I dont even know. It got to > the point where I felt others emotions more then my own and these psychs > thought it their " best interest " to medicate. Thank the Lord I am off > ALL of those medications now. Don't misread me, their are people with > chemical imbalance that may need them. I unfortunately was one of 80% > percent diagnosed with depression that really dont have chemical imbalance. > > anyway i would also like to add, when i put myself in the hospital last > year, i found out from getting copies of my record that they tested my > tsh the first night i was in (in the psych ward) my TSH was 13. 57 and I > was armour then, which wasn't working (i think i was in what topper > calles thyroid storm) which i didnt know about then, I also found out... > that I was severely dehydrated. (I was nursing at the time and lost 50 > lbs the first few months) Apparantly I was not eating enough to keep me > sustained and my child. I had never nursed before, and everything I read > on nursing never once said the importance over and over again of > drinking liquids almost hourly and eating as if you were pregnant. I > unfortunately had to abrubtly stop nursing because they started me on > all kinds of psych meds. My son and I suffered a horrible sepperation > that could have been spared had PHYSICAL issues been treated first, and > me sent home. Let me add it also helps to have a personal relationship > with Jesus. I am not trying to push my religion here I understand this > is nto a christian based group but I am a christian and would like to > thank my Heavenly Father that I am now psych med free and the > experiences have brought me and my family closer to Him. > > Best regards and Love > > Deana > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Rom 8:28 -----through all trials and tribulations we become stronger and closer to Him. God Bless you , I am happy to meet another that I will see someday!! Hugs Deana wrote: >This has all brought me even further to His direction also, Deana. > > > > Re: psch vs phsical stuff > > >Sigh I could so go into this, I would just like to say, unfortunately >they have gotten to the point where if you even show any amt of >emotional issues (crying in the doctor office) etc. You are ultimately >diagnosed with depression. For10 years if not more I was diagnossed as > " severe depression " with a few other diagnosis and 10 years later I said >to my psych why if I have this severe depression etc arent any of the >meds working all they are doing is making me numb and fat. You know his >response was this. Deana, you do not have chemical imbalance. You are an >extremely Highly Sensitive Person . With Situational Depression and >Situational Anxiety. We all once we are saved recieve gifts from God, I >was blessed (sometimes a curse) with the gift of empathy. I can feel >peoples pain, happiness, etc, people that I dont even know. It got to >the point where I felt others emotions more then my own and these psychs >thought it their " best interest " to medicate. Thank the Lord I am off >ALL of those medications now. Don't misread me, their are people with >chemical imbalance that may need them. I unfortunately was one of 80% >percent diagnosed with depression that really dont have chemical imbalance. > >anyway i would also like to add, when i put myself in the hospital last >year, i found out from getting copies of my record that they tested my >tsh the first night i was in (in the psych ward) my TSH was 13. 57 and I >was armour then, which wasn't working (i think i was in what topper >calles thyroid storm) which i didnt know about then, I also found out... >that I was severely dehydrated. (I was nursing at the time and lost 50 >lbs the first few months) Apparantly I was not eating enough to keep me >sustained and my child. I had never nursed before, and everything I read >on nursing never once said the importance over and over again of >drinking liquids almost hourly and eating as if you were pregnant. I >unfortunately had to abrubtly stop nursing because they started me on >all kinds of psych meds. My son and I suffered a horrible sepperation >that could have been spared had PHYSICAL issues been treated first, and >me sent home. Let me add it also helps to have a personal relationship >with Jesus. I am not trying to push my religion here I understand this >is nto a christian based group but I am a christian and would like to >thank my Heavenly Father that I am now psych med free and the >experiences have brought me and my family closer to Him. > >Best regards and Love > >Deana > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 You hit it right on the head Dawn. God Bless Deana :-) dawn prince wrote: > Hi Deana & , > I missed your post so I am glad that didn't but my reading this > morning seems to say it all from Gen: 45: 3-8. Stories of ph > always seem to impact my life a lot and here it is about how bad > things are allowed by the Father to bring us to a place of His > choosing for such a time as this. Nothing is out of His control > even when we sream and squirm at the pressure. It takes lots of > pressure to make a diamond and that is what we are, in the making, > and He sees the end result when we don't and all that we experience > is going to make us better. I am always teased about being a > Barnabus, a comforter/empathic, so I know how you feel for others. > In Him > Dawn > > > > > > This has all brought me even further to His direction also, Deana. > > > > > > > > Re: psch vs phsical stuff > > > > > > Sigh I could so go into this, I would just like to say, > unfortunately > > they have gotten to the point where if you even show any amt of > > emotional issues (crying in the doctor office) etc. You are > ultimately > > diagnosed with depression. For10 years if not more I was > diagnossed as > > " severe depression " with a few other diagnosis and 10 years later > I said > > to my psych why if I have this severe depression etc arent any of > the > > meds working all they are doing is making me numb and fat. You > know his > > response was this. Deana, you do not have chemical imbalance. You > are an > > extremely Highly Sensitive Person . With Situational Depression > and > > Situational Anxiety. We all once we are saved recieve gifts from > God, I > > was blessed (sometimes a curse) with the gift of empathy. I can > feel > > peoples pain, happiness, etc, people that I dont even know. It got > to > > the point where I felt others emotions more then my own and these > psychs > > thought it their " best interest " to medicate. Thank the Lord I am > off > > ALL of those medications now. Don't misread me, their are people > with > > chemical imbalance that may need them. I unfortunately was one of > 80% > > percent diagnosed with depression that really dont have chemical > imbalance. > > > > anyway i would also like to add, when i put myself in the hospital > last > > year, i found out from getting copies of my record that they > tested my > > tsh the first night i was in (in the psych ward) my TSH was 13. 57 > and I > > was armour then, which wasn't working (i think i was in what > topper > > calles thyroid storm) which i didnt know about then, I also found > out... > > that I was severely dehydrated. (I was nursing at the time and > lost 50 > > lbs the first few months) Apparantly I was not eating enough to > keep me > > sustained and my child. I had never nursed before, and everything > I read > > on nursing never once said the importance over and over again of > > drinking liquids almost hourly and eating as if you were pregnant. > I > > unfortunately had to abrubtly stop nursing because they started me > on > > all kinds of psych meds. My son and I suffered a horrible > sepperation > > that could have been spared had PHYSICAL issues been treated > first, and > > me sent home. Let me add it also helps to have a personal > relationship > > with Jesus. I am not trying to push my religion here I understand > this > > is nto a christian based group but I am a christian and would like > to > > thank my Heavenly Father that I am now psych med free and the > > experiences have brought me and my family closer to Him. > > > > Best regards and Love > > > > Deana > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 You hit it right on the head Dawn. God Bless Deana :-) dawn prince wrote: > Hi Deana & , > I missed your post so I am glad that didn't but my reading this > morning seems to say it all from Gen: 45: 3-8. Stories of ph > always seem to impact my life a lot and here it is about how bad > things are allowed by the Father to bring us to a place of His > choosing for such a time as this. Nothing is out of His control > even when we sream and squirm at the pressure. It takes lots of > pressure to make a diamond and that is what we are, in the making, > and He sees the end result when we don't and all that we experience > is going to make us better. I am always teased about being a > Barnabus, a comforter/empathic, so I know how you feel for others. > In Him > Dawn > > > > > > This has all brought me even further to His direction also, Deana. > > > > > > > > Re: psch vs phsical stuff > > > > > > Sigh I could so go into this, I would just like to say, > unfortunately > > they have gotten to the point where if you even show any amt of > > emotional issues (crying in the doctor office) etc. You are > ultimately > > diagnosed with depression. For10 years if not more I was > diagnossed as > > " severe depression " with a few other diagnosis and 10 years later > I said > > to my psych why if I have this severe depression etc arent any of > the > > meds working all they are doing is making me numb and fat. You > know his > > response was this. Deana, you do not have chemical imbalance. You > are an > > extremely Highly Sensitive Person . With Situational Depression > and > > Situational Anxiety. We all once we are saved recieve gifts from > God, I > > was blessed (sometimes a curse) with the gift of empathy. I can > feel > > peoples pain, happiness, etc, people that I dont even know. It got > to > > the point where I felt others emotions more then my own and these > psychs > > thought it their " best interest " to medicate. Thank the Lord I am > off > > ALL of those medications now. Don't misread me, their are people > with > > chemical imbalance that may need them. I unfortunately was one of > 80% > > percent diagnosed with depression that really dont have chemical > imbalance. > > > > anyway i would also like to add, when i put myself in the hospital > last > > year, i found out from getting copies of my record that they > tested my > > tsh the first night i was in (in the psych ward) my TSH was 13. 57 > and I > > was armour then, which wasn't working (i think i was in what > topper > > calles thyroid storm) which i didnt know about then, I also found > out... > > that I was severely dehydrated. (I was nursing at the time and > lost 50 > > lbs the first few months) Apparantly I was not eating enough to > keep me > > sustained and my child. I had never nursed before, and everything > I read > > on nursing never once said the importance over and over again of > > drinking liquids almost hourly and eating as if you were pregnant. > I > > unfortunately had to abrubtly stop nursing because they started me > on > > all kinds of psych meds. My son and I suffered a horrible > sepperation > > that could have been spared had PHYSICAL issues been treated > first, and > > me sent home. Let me add it also helps to have a personal > relationship > > with Jesus. I am not trying to push my religion here I understand > this > > is nto a christian based group but I am a christian and would like > to > > thank my Heavenly Father that I am now psych med free and the > > experiences have brought me and my family closer to Him. > > > > Best regards and Love > > > > Deana > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 You hit it right on the head Dawn. God Bless Deana :-) dawn prince wrote: > Hi Deana & , > I missed your post so I am glad that didn't but my reading this > morning seems to say it all from Gen: 45: 3-8. Stories of ph > always seem to impact my life a lot and here it is about how bad > things are allowed by the Father to bring us to a place of His > choosing for such a time as this. Nothing is out of His control > even when we sream and squirm at the pressure. It takes lots of > pressure to make a diamond and that is what we are, in the making, > and He sees the end result when we don't and all that we experience > is going to make us better. I am always teased about being a > Barnabus, a comforter/empathic, so I know how you feel for others. > In Him > Dawn > > > > > > This has all brought me even further to His direction also, Deana. > > > > > > > > Re: psch vs phsical stuff > > > > > > Sigh I could so go into this, I would just like to say, > unfortunately > > they have gotten to the point where if you even show any amt of > > emotional issues (crying in the doctor office) etc. You are > ultimately > > diagnosed with depression. For10 years if not more I was > diagnossed as > > " severe depression " with a few other diagnosis and 10 years later > I said > > to my psych why if I have this severe depression etc arent any of > the > > meds working all they are doing is making me numb and fat. You > know his > > response was this. Deana, you do not have chemical imbalance. You > are an > > extremely Highly Sensitive Person . With Situational Depression > and > > Situational Anxiety. We all once we are saved recieve gifts from > God, I > > was blessed (sometimes a curse) with the gift of empathy. I can > feel > > peoples pain, happiness, etc, people that I dont even know. It got > to > > the point where I felt others emotions more then my own and these > psychs > > thought it their " best interest " to medicate. Thank the Lord I am > off > > ALL of those medications now. Don't misread me, their are people > with > > chemical imbalance that may need them. I unfortunately was one of > 80% > > percent diagnosed with depression that really dont have chemical > imbalance. > > > > anyway i would also like to add, when i put myself in the hospital > last > > year, i found out from getting copies of my record that they > tested my > > tsh the first night i was in (in the psych ward) my TSH was 13. 57 > and I > > was armour then, which wasn't working (i think i was in what > topper > > calles thyroid storm) which i didnt know about then, I also found > out... > > that I was severely dehydrated. (I was nursing at the time and > lost 50 > > lbs the first few months) Apparantly I was not eating enough to > keep me > > sustained and my child. I had never nursed before, and everything > I read > > on nursing never once said the importance over and over again of > > drinking liquids almost hourly and eating as if you were pregnant. > I > > unfortunately had to abrubtly stop nursing because they started me > on > > all kinds of psych meds. My son and I suffered a horrible > sepperation > > that could have been spared had PHYSICAL issues been treated > first, and > > me sent home. Let me add it also helps to have a personal > relationship > > with Jesus. I am not trying to push my religion here I understand > this > > is nto a christian based group but I am a christian and would like > to > > thank my Heavenly Father that I am now psych med free and the > > experiences have brought me and my family closer to Him. > > > > Best regards and Love > > > > Deana > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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