Re: Re: New Subway commercials/Tory

[Guest guest]

Well Beth, here's kind of how I feel and of course, this is my opinion. A

lot of it is based on the expectations I had as a kid.

On the one hand, there is the argument that if he's doing well on tests,

he's learning. However tests are not a very accurate measure, by

themselves, of learning. Honestly I have seen MANY times where kids can do

all the things that need to be done to get an A in the class without

learning very much. On the flip side I have had MANY students earn low or

even no passing grade in the class but come out with tons of new knowledge.

Learning does not equal good grades, and good grades do not equal learning.

While in the past you have let homework be his thing, he has shown that

he's not very responsible in this area. Grades and intelligence aside,

right now school should be his job. I tell my kids even at Mcs you

can't just pick and choose what you do. Imagine if you ordered a Happy Meal

and the clerk handed it to you and said, " Yeah, I wasn't really into the

fries today and it's 75% there, which is passing, so there you go. " How

well would THAT go over?

My mother's expectation was that every single assignment was turned in. It

didn't matter if it didn't impact the grade much, my responsibility and

priority (after God and family) was to do ALL of my work. She didn't care

if I didn't want to, the teacher didn't like me, I was having an off day,

or whatever. I still had to do it. Does that sound familiar? Aren't those

the very expectations that we have on the job? It was excellent training

for my adult responsibilities. And honestly, I did not know...HONESTLY did

NOT know...that not turning in an assignment was even an option!

Not all teachers are like this, but as a teacher I design every single

assignment for a specific purpose. (I am extremely anal retentive that

way.) When a student chooses not to do something, he is missing a piece of

the puzzle that is the unit. That's a learning opportunity. This is how I

put it to parents. As a teacher I set before your child a smorgasbord of

learning opportunity. I can give him the tools to partake of this meal, set

him sweetly in a chair, and say " Go for it " but he has to pick up the fork

and spoon and feed himself. Some kids will literally starve educationally

despite the opportunity before them. Others eat with gusto and then dash

without paying the bill (turning in work). Others pack it all in a doggie

bag and drop it in the dumpster on the way out, but pay the bill just to

keep me off their backs. Still others eat, pay the bill, and leave a tip.

It sounds like he picks and chooses leaving a lot of good " food " on the table.

Here is how it was handled when I had a " problem " in the 11th grade. I

brought home a bad progress report and was immediately grounded. That

didn't mean I was sent to my room to watch my TV, listen to my stereo, and

talk on my phone. I was GROUNDED. No friends, no after school activities,

when the family watched TV I could go to bed or go read in my bedroom. When

I had a TV in my room it was taken away. The computer was in a centralized

location (I don't believe in allowing a child to have a computer with

internet access in his/her room and after just watching the episode of Dr.

Phil related to online pedophiles, I think I'm 150% right in that belief).

My grounding lasted until my grade was up to a B. While my mom made dinner

I had to sit at the table and do my homework. If I said I didn't have

homework, I still had to sit at the table and read a chapter out of my

books. One time I forgot my books, so my mom assigned an essay. No. I'm not

kidding. The message was, " You will meet the expectation of putting in your

best effort. Period. No discussion. " If I was missing even ONE assignment,

I was required to do it even if the teacher wouldn't accept it. If I truly

was caught up, my mom brought out a book and I read to her while she

cooked. (Let me tell you, those were the NEATEST times. I remember reading

" The Iliad " to her when I was 11. I wanted to read a " hard book " and that

was one! She would help me understand the storyline.) I learned very

quickly that it was just easier to meet these expectations even if I didn't

" like " it than it was to fight it.

The deal is, I sign at least three " dropout " forms a year for extremely

smart kids who have decided that they're too smart for school. It's WAY too

easy to say " Oh, it's only 7th grade. It doesn't count now " but now is when

the habits are being formed and let me tell you, no matter how often my 8th

graders (when I taught junior high) said that " next year they'd work

harder " when it " counted " not once NOT ONCE did I see one actually make

that turnaround. I had one who just dropped out last week. He told me (and

Mom confirmed) that he hadn't passed a class since the 6th grade. *boggle*

He had " plans " and they " didn't include a high school diploma " .

His plan was to join Job Corp and become a chef (he'd never cooked so much

as an egg in his life) and then the Navy (and wouldn't believe me when I

told him that the Navy required a diploma or GED). I had a LONG talk with

his Mom and she too had decided it was his responsibility, but I can't help

but wonder what would be different if in the sixth grade she had put her

foot down hard and said, " Nope. I love you too much to let you do this. " Of

course your son isn't failing and I don't want you to think I'm judging you

in the same light. It gets harder and harder every year to take those

reigns back, however, and she never did regain control.

So I can't tell you what to do, obviously (hahahaha)...but I can say that

from my POV my heart just breaks when I see these really smart kids who

just let the path of least resistance take over until they are failing. The

thing is, right now his path of least resistance is to do fine on the tests

(probably just by listening in class, which tells me his classes aren't

NEARLY challenging enough) and blow off the rest. However if you suddenly

become an obstacle in that path, the path of least resistance then comes

down to " Mom is being a real pain and MAKING me do my homework and if I

want to live like a teenager and not a monk, I guess it's just easier to

give in to what she wants. How unreasonable of her! " It won't be easy...if

you decide to just make it no longer an option, but it will be worth it.

I'm working with a Mom who is going through the same thing with her son and

wow, the difference in his work is amazing! She made him make up all the

assignments he'd blown off (even if I wouldn't accept them), and suddenly

he went from a low F to a C (which is a HUGE jump in about 7 weeks) and I

bet he'll have an A by semester. He complained one day (well, more than one

day) and I looked at him and said, " Cory, you don't realize how lucky you

are that you have a mom who loves you enough to ride your tail until you

perform. It might be a hassle now, but I guarantee that someday you'll be

thanking her. "

I know because I thanked my mom!

At 04:05 PM 11/16/2004, Beth wrote:

>Tory,

>

>I know this is off topic - but being a teacher I really could use

>your imput. I have a 13 yr old boy who is very smart, but very lazy

>when it comes to school. He scores nationaly in 98-99% and even took

>his SAT's this past year (scoring in top 1%). The problem is trying

>to get him to do his homework. I have always though my children's

>homework was their responsibility - not mine. That means that I

>don't sit with him and do his work, I don't help him with answers -

>I will explain concepts, and I don't find out what is due when. I

>figure if he fails a class it is no one's fault but his own. The

>trouble is that since he is smart he get's 100's on tests, so even

>with very little homework turned in he still passes and feels he can

>get away with this. I have tried talking with him, taking things

>away. I am at my wits end. Do you have any ideas?

>

>If you would rather send reply to my email rather than continue off

>topic in group, I understand.

>

>(the other) Beth

>

>

> > > >

> > > > >I saw flyers for feeding kids Subway the other day when I was

>in there.

> > > I

> > > > >was not thrilled with it either. Most kids (9yrs-13yrs) I

>know who get

> > > > >Subway order the meatball or the BMT (footlongs with chips

>and soda).

> > > Not

> > > > >real healthy.

> > > > >

> > > > >Moe

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

We don't have open campus because, according to the law, once a student

leaves from his/her home for school, the school district is directly

responsible for his/her safety until the end of the school day and the time

at which they would normally arrive home. That means if a kid is allowed by

the school to leave campus and gets into a car accident, legally the school

district can be held responsible, since they gave " permission. "

They didn't allow smoking on campus when I was a kid but the bathrooms were

just like that...sea of smoke! It was horrible! Now if you get caught

smoking on campus you get ten days suspension or you can do four days and

take a tobacco dangers class. Drugs on campus is emergency expulsion.

Private schools aren't subsidized by the state so they would have some

issues with food services. However since your son is going to go there, you

might start working with other parents to offer more reasonable choices. I

saw a new store the other day on an alternative school that serves ONLY

healthy, fresh-made, low fat, high nutrient dense food. Seriously. The kids

were getting chicken (baked), fresh fruit salad, fresh vegetable salad,

nonfat milk. No soda, no chips, no pizza, nothing like that was even

available. They were reporting that the behavior of their students had

changed DRAMATICALLY since implementing that program. Of course that's

anecdotal and it does cost more to do that, but you might start with Subway

and move up from there.

Look for public schools to start changing their menus. After this year our

district will no longer sell/serve chips, candy, soda, sports drinks, or

anything considered " junk " food (I don't know if that includes pizza for

lunch). It's in response to new state laws, that are in response to some

federal laws that should be coming down.

At 07:28 PM 11/16/2004, Adoption A Gift Of Love wrote:

> > > Wow! Open campus for JUNIOR high?

>

>LOL.....yes, it's not all over, but some school do have it. Our Junior high

>is 7-8 grade, but some of the high schools are 8-12 grade.....lol....I worry

>more about 8th grade girls being around 12th grade boys! lol......than I do

>them leaving campus to grab lunch....so many of those 8th graders look like

>senior high kids!

>

>I remember when I entered my freshman year all my friends smoked and I did

>not (never have) and there was smoking allowed on campus (designated areas

>only) if you had a signed permission slip from your parents each

>year.......My freshman year was when they stopped that, it was a nightmare

>after that, everytime you used the bathroom you walked through a fog of

>smoke it was nasty. We also had open campus, but I think it was only for

>upper classmen in good standing, when that started a Mcs opened right

>across the street.

>

>The school my DS will attend (I pray I will be creative with his SACK

>lunches!) only serves Landshire (sp?) microwave sandwiches (like hospital

>vending machine sandwiches), chips, cookies, milk and on every Friday they

>order out. They rotate between a grocery store deli (chicken & noodles,

>beef & noodles etc) and a pizza delivery place ($1.00 per slice). Not real

>thrilled with those options. But there is no school lunch program (not

>great anyway) since it's a private school with only about 130 kids.

>

>Hey, Just a thought, I wonder if the school would order Subway for lunch on

>those Friday?? I may just have to mention that.

>

>Moe

>

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