Re: Still Around

April 15, 2005

honey, you are going to be fine. The process

that we have to go through is definitely an eye opener

in some aspects. As you go through the process,

remember that this is just that...a process and that

it won't always be like that. You have to refocus for

a moment and say what is important to me here? Having

the surgery, losing the weight and be healthy. That

is what is important. Just because you hit a bump in

the road does not mean that you have to completely run

all the way off the road. Remember...steer your car

in the direction that you are skidding. If they think

you are not ready then show them you are ready. I am

not sure what SF requires you to do but I knew what

Richmond wanted from me so I gave it to them. It was

hard but I was determined that nothing they were going

to say or do to me was going to stop me from having

that surgery. There were days when I felt like giving

up. For example. The day before my surgery (well

three days because they called me at the end of the

day on Friday and I was suppose to go into surgery on

Tuesday) I got the call saying it was canceled because

of a cancer patient that needed to have emergency

surgery. I got so mad. I mean it was only pushed

back one more week. I went off my diet and said the

heck with this. I admit it. I did have a burger and

fries, but it could have been so much worse than that.

On the way home I had talk myself into the fact that

it was okay for me to just binge because I had earned

it and now they think that with one little phone call

they can destroy all my hard work. I could have eaten

ice cream and cookies and candy and soda and etc. but

I did not. I stopped after a cheeseburger and small

fries because that was enough guilt for me knowing

that I was on a tail spin to ruin everything I had

worked so hard for. And it did not taste that good at

all. I got back on program and stayed the course

until I had the surgery. You can do this. This is

just a minor set back. Give them what they want.

Try to get into one suppor group meeting a month. You

don't have to go to curves everyday. The only

recommend 3 days as your muscles need time to recoup.

Anymore than three days is setting yourself up for

major burn out. And if you can't get to the gym more

than two times, pick a day and just take a stroll,

even if only 10 minutes. You know that you are ready

but they don't. I hope this helps and hang in there.

Pam Marsh-KP Richmond/Dr. Park&Dr. Baggs 9 weeks

postop

190-59.5 pounds gone.

--- chris lopez clopez57@...> wrote:

> HI,

>

> I'm still here, disgusted and frustrated. After I

> finally saw Dr. Stiles in February and she told me I

> had lost enough weight, she referred me to a

> surgeon, Dr. Li. I posted a couple of times to see

> if anyone knew him but no one responded. Well, I

> saw him last month and to say it was horrible is an

> understatment. He was rude and negative and

> referred to himself using the " royal " we. He told

> me I wasn't ready and when I asked him why Dr.

> Stiles would refer me if that was the case he said

> " Because Dr. Stiles isn't the surgeon, we are. " . I

> left there determined to drop out of the program.

> Two and a half hours drive from Sacramento for 10

> minutes of being made to feel like a piece of crap.

> I felt he had no compassion or understanding of what

> it's like to be morbidly obese and the difficulty of

> losing weight. After raging for about 15 minutes

> and my daughter telling me off I calmed down and

> said all right, what do I have to do to make this

> idiot happy.

>

> We joined Curves and like it but it's not going that

> well. My daughter and I have both been sick off and

> on since the holidays so we've only been about six

> times in the last month. MY legs hurt so bad

> sometimes I can barely walk and that half hour is

> tough. We've been everyday this week so that's an

> improvement. We're trying to get on track and go

> everyday. I'm still not sleeping all that well and

> as we all know, lack of sleep hinders weight loss.

> I feel like I'm caught in a huge whirlpool. To make

> matters worse, I just heard yesterday that my

> daughter's teacher who only got approved in January

> or so is having surgery on Tuesday! I'm so damn

> jealous I'm ashamed of myself. Half the people I

> know having surgery got approved after me. I'm so

> tired of five hours round trip to SSF for a 10

> minutes appointment with more disappointment. I

> don't even go to the monthly support groups. After

> Gitty made the comment about being tired of seeing

> the same faces month after month, I

> thought, well I'm never going to show my face

> again!

>

> My daughter was at Kaiser last week and I ran into a

> gal who was in orientation with me last year. She

> looks fabulous and amazingly, she had Dr. Li. I

> told her about my experience and she said he was

> aloof and unfriendly but treated her well after

> surgery, so at least I didn't feel like I was

> imagining it. I was supposed to see him this past

> Tuesday, but I knew it would be a waste of time so

> what with the price of gas and all I just

> rescheduled for next month. I requested a different

> surgeon and they wouldn't give me one.

>

> So far, this has been one of the most frustrating

> experiences of my life. I'm happy for everyone's

> successes, but it seems like a dream that is just

> never going to come true for me. Because of the

> sleep apnea my memory and concentration are getting

> worse, I'm in more and more pain and all of this is

> threatening my job becaue my performance is falling

> off. I had such high hopes for improved health

> after surgery, but now I'm resigning myself that it

> will never happen.

>

> Sorry this is such a downer; that's why I haven't

> written in over two months but I had to get it out.

>

> Chris

>

__________________________________________________

April 15, 2005

Chris...

Are you using your CPAP machine? If you have sleep apnea, you really need to be regulating your breathing at night. This isn't just an issue of memory and concentration...people with sleep apnea can die in their sleep if they don't use the machine One of our members here on the board lost her first husband (at a fairly young age) from that problem.

Doing that one thing will give you more energy, and may help your spirits, too.

If you lost the weight you were supposed to lose, why did he feel you weren't ready? Did he articulate his reasons? Were you saying things that would lead him to believe that you haven't accepted the true limitations you'll face post-surgery? I'm not just automatically taking his side, but I'm wondering if there may be something that you need to work on from an emotional perspective in order to be sucessful.

I was approved in early December, went to orientation in January, and am now five lbs. from goal. Since I'm at Richmond, they are very strict about the 10%. I could have gone crazy and crash dieted to get to goal faster (I only had to lose 26 lbs.), but I've been taking my time...because I know that emotionally I need to do some work to prepare my heart, mind and spirit (and body) for this path that I'm going to be taking. It's all part of the process, the journey...and this time right now should not be wasted. Start looking at some of your behaviours and your attitudes towards food. Start peeling the onion to figure out why you overeat...and how you are going to deal with the inability to overeat (in other words, what will be your substitute for the nurturing or anger and frustration release you have generally obtained through eating?)

This is all very important work. The change we will be going through is not just physical...it is spiritual, too. We need to own our lives and our behaviours and our emotions. This is a HUGE transition. So, start doing the emotional work that you need to do, so that you can be strong enough next time to say, "I am ready. ANd here is what I'm doing to make sure that I follow the program, here is what I'm doing to make sure that I can handle the emotional issues I'm bound to face once I can no longer overeat to comfort myself."

I'm really not meaning to preach...and as I said, I have absolutely no idea why he would have taken that attitude towards you. By the same time, this guy wants you to succeed. He wants to make sure you are tough enough to do what you need to do for yourself in order to use this tool to its full potential. He sees a lot of people, and he knows who is successful and who is not. Maybe he thinks that he needs to challenge those who aren't truly ready to GET ready, before he goes in and permanently alters their plumbing. He has more experience with more patients than we do, and he knows what it takes to be successful.

That being said, he might be absolutely wrong about whether you are ready. But this is your life, and you need to step up. If you aren't ready...get ready. If you are ready...fight for yourself. You are the only one who can do this. Don't cancel appointments...that won't help you get there. Just go to the appointments armed and ready to rumble. Not with a bad attitude, but with a confident attitude, so that your surgeon can feel comfortable that he will not be exposing you to a potentially dangerous surgery for no good purpose, because you won't be able to do what you need to do to use that tool properly.

Surgeons aren't known for their bedside manner or people skills. But, they are analytical and precise. They don't want to fail, and to them...failing is losing a patient, or performing a surgery that doesn't work. So, they evaluate the situation and make a determination based upon facts, statistics...and maybe some intuition.

If he has the wrong facts, educate him. If, on some off chance, he is correct, and you aren't really ready...do some soul searching and GET ready. Exercising is great, a positive step in the right direction. Absolutely. So, good for you. Great for you, in fact.

The other step may involve diving in...doing some writing and thinking...maybe using Kaiser's behaviorial health team: take a class about nutrition, about managing stress, about mindfulness. Or, get an appointment or two with a psychologist recommended by the bariatric department, and talk through some stuff with that person. Come up with a game plan.

You are the master of your own ship. Sail it. Captain it. Take charge.

(I'm saying this for myself, too...so I hope you don't feel beaten up. This is being said in love...because I want you to be able to continue on in this journey along with the rest of us.)

Good luck!!!

Robynnchris lopez wrote:

HI,

I'm still here, disgusted and frustrated. After I finally saw Dr. Stiles in February and she told me I had lost enough weight, she referred me to a surgeon, Dr. Li. I posted a couple of times to see if anyone knew him but no one responded. Well, I saw him last month and to say it was horrible is an understatment. He was rude and negative and referred to himself using the "royal" we. He told me I wasn't ready and when I asked him why Dr. Stiles would refer me if that was the case he said "Because Dr. Stiles isn't the surgeon, we are.". I left there determined to drop out of the program. Two and a half hours drive from Sacramento for 10 minutes of being made to feel like a piece of crap. I felt he had no compassion or understanding of what it's like to be morbidly obese and the difficulty of losing weight. After raging for about 15 minutes and my daughter telling me off I calmed down and said all right, what do I have to

do to make this idiot happy.

We joined Curves and like it but it's not going that well. My daughter and I have both been sick off and on since the holidays so we've only been about six times in the last month. MY legs hurt so bad sometimes I can barely walk and that half hour is tough. We've been everyday this week so that's an improvement. We're trying to get on track and go everyday. I'm still not sleeping all that well and as we all know, lack of sleep hinders weight loss. I feel like I'm caught in a huge whirlpool. To make matters worse, I just heard yesterday that my daughter's teacher who only got approved in January or so is having surgery on Tuesday! I'm so damn jealous I'm ashamed of myself. Half the people I know having surgery got approved after me. I'm so tired of five hours round trip to SSF for a 10 minutes appointment with more disappointment. I don't even go to the monthly support groups. After Gitty made the

comment about being tired of seeing the same faces month after month, I thought, well I'm never going to show my face again!

My daughter was at Kaiser last week and I ran into a gal who was in orientation with me last year. She looks fabulous and amazingly, she had Dr. Li. I told her about my experience and she said he was aloof and unfriendly but treated her well after surgery, so at least I didn't feel like I was imagining it. I was supposed to see him this past Tuesday, but I knew it would be a waste of time so what with the price of gas and all I just rescheduled for next month. I requested a different surgeon and they wouldn't give me one.

So far, this has been one of the most frustrating experiences of my life. I'm happy for everyone's successes, but it seems like a dream that is just never going to come true for me. Because of the sleep apnea my memory and concentration are getting worse, I'm in more and more pain and all of this is threatening my job becaue my performance is falling off. I had such high hopes for improved health after surgery, but now I'm resigning myself that it will never happen.

Sorry this is such a downer; that's why I haven't written in over two months but I had to get it out.

Chris

April 15, 2005

Chris

I know how frustrating and discouraging this all seems. The pre op

time is so full of emotional up and downs. You will get through this

and it will happen for you. I would also recommend meeting with Dr Li

again, and being upfront and honest to how you felt about your last

appointment. Ask him what he expects for a sucessful WLS patient and

then be prepared to let him know that you already have those traits.

Hang in there and Huggles

> > HI,

> >

> > I'm still here, disgusted and frustrated. After I

> > finally saw Dr. Stiles in February and she told me I

> > had lost enough weight, she referred me to a

> > surgeon, Dr. Li. I posted a couple of times to see

> > if anyone knew him but no one responded. Well, I

> > saw him last month and to say it was horrible is an

> > understatment. He was rude and negative and

> > referred to himself using the " royal " we. He told

> > me I wasn't ready and when I asked him why Dr.

> > Stiles would refer me if that was the case he said

> > " Because Dr. Stiles isn't the surgeon, we are. " . I

> > left there determined to drop out of the program.

> > Two and a half hours drive from Sacramento for 10

> > minutes of being made to feel like a piece of crap.

> > I felt he had no compassion or understanding of what

> > it's like to be morbidly obese and the difficulty of

> > losing weight. After raging for about 15 minutes

> > and my daughter telling me off I calmed down and

> > said all right, what do I have to do to make this

> > idiot happy.

> >

> > We joined Curves and like it but it's not going that

> > well. My daughter and I have both been sick off and

> > on since the holidays so we've only been about six

> > times in the last month. MY legs hurt so bad

> > sometimes I can barely walk and that half hour is

> > tough. We've been everyday this week so that's an

> > improvement. We're trying to get on track and go

> > everyday. I'm still not sleeping all that well and

> > as we all know, lack of sleep hinders weight loss.

> > I feel like I'm caught in a huge whirlpool. To make

> > matters worse, I just heard yesterday that my

> > daughter's teacher who only got approved in January

> > or so is having surgery on Tuesday! I'm so damn

> > jealous I'm ashamed of myself. Half the people I

> > know having surgery got approved after me. I'm so

> > tired of five hours round trip to SSF for a 10

> > minutes appointment with more disappointment. I

> > don't even go to the monthly support groups. After

> > Gitty made the comment about being tired of seeing

> > the same faces month after month, I

> > thought, well I'm never going to show my face

> > again!

> >

> > My daughter was at Kaiser last week and I ran into a

> > gal who was in orientation with me last year. She

> > looks fabulous and amazingly, she had Dr. Li. I

> > told her about my experience and she said he was

> > aloof and unfriendly but treated her well after

> > surgery, so at least I didn't feel like I was

> > imagining it. I was supposed to see him this past

> > Tuesday, but I knew it would be a waste of time so

> > what with the price of gas and all I just

> > rescheduled for next month. I requested a different

> > surgeon and they wouldn't give me one.

> >

> > So far, this has been one of the most frustrating

> > experiences of my life. I'm happy for everyone's

> > successes, but it seems like a dream that is just

> > never going to come true for me. Because of the

> > sleep apnea my memory and concentration are getting

> > worse, I'm in more and more pain and all of this is

> > threatening my job becaue my performance is falling

> > off. I had such high hopes for improved health

> > after surgery, but now I'm resigning myself that it

> > will never happen.

> >

> > Sorry this is such a downer; that's why I haven't

> > written in over two months but I had to get it out.

> >

> > Chris

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

April 15, 2005

Chris

I know how frustrating and discouraging this all seems. The pre op

time is so full of emotional up and downs. You will get through this

and it will happen for you. I would also recommend meeting with Dr Li

again, and being upfront and honest to how you felt about your last

appointment. Ask him what he expects for a sucessful WLS patient and

then be prepared to let him know that you already have those traits.

Hang in there and Huggles

> > HI,

> >

> > I'm still here, disgusted and frustrated. After I

> > finally saw Dr. Stiles in February and she told me I

> > had lost enough weight, she referred me to a

> > surgeon, Dr. Li. I posted a couple of times to see

> > if anyone knew him but no one responded. Well, I

> > saw him last month and to say it was horrible is an

> > understatment. He was rude and negative and

> > referred to himself using the " royal " we. He told

> > me I wasn't ready and when I asked him why Dr.

> > Stiles would refer me if that was the case he said

> > " Because Dr. Stiles isn't the surgeon, we are. " . I

> > left there determined to drop out of the program.

> > Two and a half hours drive from Sacramento for 10

> > minutes of being made to feel like a piece of crap.

> > I felt he had no compassion or understanding of what

> > it's like to be morbidly obese and the difficulty of

> > losing weight. After raging for about 15 minutes

> > and my daughter telling me off I calmed down and

> > said all right, what do I have to do to make this

> > idiot happy.

> >

> > We joined Curves and like it but it's not going that

> > well. My daughter and I have both been sick off and

> > on since the holidays so we've only been about six

> > times in the last month. MY legs hurt so bad

> > sometimes I can barely walk and that half hour is

> > tough. We've been everyday this week so that's an

> > improvement. We're trying to get on track and go

> > everyday. I'm still not sleeping all that well and

> > as we all know, lack of sleep hinders weight loss.

> > I feel like I'm caught in a huge whirlpool. To make

> > matters worse, I just heard yesterday that my

> > daughter's teacher who only got approved in January

> > or so is having surgery on Tuesday! I'm so damn

> > jealous I'm ashamed of myself. Half the people I

> > know having surgery got approved after me. I'm so

> > tired of five hours round trip to SSF for a 10

> > minutes appointment with more disappointment. I

> > don't even go to the monthly support groups. After

> > Gitty made the comment about being tired of seeing

> > the same faces month after month, I

> > thought, well I'm never going to show my face

> > again!

> >

> > My daughter was at Kaiser last week and I ran into a

> > gal who was in orientation with me last year. She

> > looks fabulous and amazingly, she had Dr. Li. I

> > told her about my experience and she said he was

> > aloof and unfriendly but treated her well after

> > surgery, so at least I didn't feel like I was

> > imagining it. I was supposed to see him this past

> > Tuesday, but I knew it would be a waste of time so

> > what with the price of gas and all I just

> > rescheduled for next month. I requested a different

> > surgeon and they wouldn't give me one.

> >

> > So far, this has been one of the most frustrating

> > experiences of my life. I'm happy for everyone's

> > successes, but it seems like a dream that is just

> > never going to come true for me. Because of the

> > sleep apnea my memory and concentration are getting

> > worse, I'm in more and more pain and all of this is

> > threatening my job becaue my performance is falling

> > off. I had such high hopes for improved health

> > after surgery, but now I'm resigning myself that it

> > will never happen.

> >

> > Sorry this is such a downer; that's why I haven't

> > written in over two months but I had to get it out.

> >

> > Chris

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

April 15, 2005

Chris

I know how frustrating and discouraging this all seems. The pre op

time is so full of emotional up and downs. You will get through this

and it will happen for you. I would also recommend meeting with Dr Li

again, and being upfront and honest to how you felt about your last

appointment. Ask him what he expects for a sucessful WLS patient and

then be prepared to let him know that you already have those traits.

Hang in there and Huggles

> > HI,

> >

> > I'm still here, disgusted and frustrated. After I

> > finally saw Dr. Stiles in February and she told me I

> > had lost enough weight, she referred me to a

> > surgeon, Dr. Li. I posted a couple of times to see

> > if anyone knew him but no one responded. Well, I

> > saw him last month and to say it was horrible is an

> > understatment. He was rude and negative and

> > referred to himself using the " royal " we. He told

> > me I wasn't ready and when I asked him why Dr.

> > Stiles would refer me if that was the case he said

> > " Because Dr. Stiles isn't the surgeon, we are. " . I

> > left there determined to drop out of the program.

> > Two and a half hours drive from Sacramento for 10

> > minutes of being made to feel like a piece of crap.

> > I felt he had no compassion or understanding of what

> > it's like to be morbidly obese and the difficulty of

> > losing weight. After raging for about 15 minutes

> > and my daughter telling me off I calmed down and

> > said all right, what do I have to do to make this

> > idiot happy.

> >

> > We joined Curves and like it but it's not going that

> > well. My daughter and I have both been sick off and

> > on since the holidays so we've only been about six

> > times in the last month. MY legs hurt so bad

> > sometimes I can barely walk and that half hour is

> > tough. We've been everyday this week so that's an

> > improvement. We're trying to get on track and go

> > everyday. I'm still not sleeping all that well and

> > as we all know, lack of sleep hinders weight loss.

> > I feel like I'm caught in a huge whirlpool. To make

> > matters worse, I just heard yesterday that my

> > daughter's teacher who only got approved in January

> > or so is having surgery on Tuesday! I'm so damn

> > jealous I'm ashamed of myself. Half the people I

> > know having surgery got approved after me. I'm so

> > tired of five hours round trip to SSF for a 10

> > minutes appointment with more disappointment. I

> > don't even go to the monthly support groups. After

> > Gitty made the comment about being tired of seeing

> > the same faces month after month, I

> > thought, well I'm never going to show my face

> > again!

> >

> > My daughter was at Kaiser last week and I ran into a

> > gal who was in orientation with me last year. She

> > looks fabulous and amazingly, she had Dr. Li. I

> > told her about my experience and she said he was

> > aloof and unfriendly but treated her well after

> > surgery, so at least I didn't feel like I was

> > imagining it. I was supposed to see him this past

> > Tuesday, but I knew it would be a waste of time so

> > what with the price of gas and all I just

> > rescheduled for next month. I requested a different

> > surgeon and they wouldn't give me one.

> >

> > So far, this has been one of the most frustrating

> > experiences of my life. I'm happy for everyone's

> > successes, but it seems like a dream that is just

> > never going to come true for me. Because of the

> > sleep apnea my memory and concentration are getting

> > worse, I'm in more and more pain and all of this is

> > threatening my job becaue my performance is falling

> > off. I had such high hopes for improved health

> > after surgery, but now I'm resigning myself that it

> > will never happen.

> >

> > Sorry this is such a downer; that's why I haven't

> > written in over two months but I had to get it out.

> >

> > Chris

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

April 15, 2005

Thanks . Maybe when I see him next time I'll be able to stand up to him. I just went in there with such high expectations and he stomped all over them. He was so negative. He wants me to lose more weight and exercise more, like either of those things are a piece of cake (forgive the pun). I went in there barely able to walk and told him that exercising had gotten harder and harder because of my mobility problems. He just seemed so negative--I can't imagine that he understands or has any compassion for us as being having a disease. I got the impression that he just saw me as this fat pig who wasn't even trying. It was such a let down. I was so excited when Dr. Stiles referred me to him and really thought the appointment was held such problems. I guess I should know by now that nothing with Kaiser comes easy. I wish I had private insurance so I could pick my own doctor and not go though all this

crap.

Diane Duenas wrote:

ChrisI know how frustrating and discouraging this all seems. The pre op time is so full of emotional up and downs. You will get through this and it will happen for you. I would also recommend meeting with Dr Li again, and being upfront and honest to how you felt about your last appointment. Ask him what he expects for a sucessful WLS patient and then be prepared to let him know that you already have those traits.Hang in there and Huggles> > HI,> > > > I'm still here, disgusted and frustrated. After

I> > finally saw Dr. Stiles in February and she told me I> > had lost enough weight, she referred me to a> > surgeon, Dr. Li. I posted a couple of times to see> > if anyone knew him but no one responded. Well, I> > saw him last month and to say it was horrible is an> > understatment. He was rude and negative and> > referred to himself using the "royal" we. He told> > me I wasn't ready and when I asked him why Dr.> > Stiles would refer me if that was the case he said> > "Because Dr. Stiles isn't the surgeon, we are.". I> > left there determined to drop out of the program. > > Two and a half hours drive from Sacramento for 10> > minutes of being made to feel like a piece of crap. > > I felt he had no compassion or understanding of what> > it's like to be morbidly obese and the difficulty of> >

losing weight. After raging for about 15 minutes> > and my daughter telling me off I calmed down and> > said all right, what do I have to do to make this> > idiot happy.> > > > We joined Curves and like it but it's not going that> > well. My daughter and I have both been sick off and> > on since the holidays so we've only been about six> > times in the last month. MY legs hurt so bad> > sometimes I can barely walk and that half hour is> > tough. We've been everyday this week so that's an> > improvement. We're trying to get on track and go> > everyday. I'm still not sleeping all that well and> > as we all know, lack of sleep hinders weight loss. > > I feel like I'm caught in a huge whirlpool. To make> > matters worse, I just heard yesterday that my> > daughter's teacher who

only got approved in January> > or so is having surgery on Tuesday! I'm so damn> > jealous I'm ashamed of myself. Half the people I> > know having surgery got approved after me. I'm so> > tired of five hours round trip to SSF for a 10> > minutes appointment with more disappointment. I> > don't even go to the monthly support groups. After> > Gitty made the comment about being tired of seeing> > the same faces month after month, I> > thought, well I'm never going to show my face> > again!> > > > My daughter was at Kaiser last week and I ran into a> > gal who was in orientation with me last year. She> > looks fabulous and amazingly, she had Dr. Li. I> > told her about my experience and she said he was> > aloof and unfriendly but treated her well after> > surgery, so

at least I didn't feel like I was> > imagining it. I was supposed to see him this past> > Tuesday, but I knew it would be a waste of time so> > what with the price of gas and all I just> > rescheduled for next month. I requested a different> > surgeon and they wouldn't give me one.> > > > So far, this has been one of the most frustrating> > experiences of my life. I'm happy for everyone's> > successes, but it seems like a dream that is just> > never going to come true for me. Because of the> > sleep apnea my memory and concentration are getting> > worse, I'm in more and more pain and all of this is> > threatening my job becaue my performance is falling> > off. I had such high hopes for improved health> > after surgery, but now I'm resigning myself that it> > will never happen.> >

> > Sorry this is such a downer; that's why I haven't> > written in over two months but I had to get it out.> > > > Chris> > > > __________________________________________________>

April 15, 2005

Robynn VanPatten wrote:

Chris...

Are you using your CPAP machine? If you have sleep apnea, you really need to be regulating your breathing at night. This isn't just an issue of memory and concentration...people with sleep apnea can die in their sleep if they don't use the machine One of our members here on the board lost her first husband (at a fairly young age) from that problem.

REPLY: Unfortunately since the holidays I have had one cold after another and been severely congested. Unable to breathe through your nose means you can't use the machine. Even when I was using it I wasn't sleeping any better. I'm just getting over another cold so I'll use it even though it doesn't help.

Doing that one thing will give you more energy, and may help your spirits, too.

If you lost the weight you were supposed to lose, why did he feel you weren't ready? Did he articulate his reasons? Were you saying things that would lead him to believe that you haven't accepted the true limitations you'll face post-surgery? I'm not just automatically taking his side, but I'm wondering if there may be something that you need to work on from an emotional perspective in order to be sucessful.

REPLY: Oh he was articulate all right. He wanted me to lose more weight. I wouldn't have been so disappointed if Dr. Stiles had told me that but she said they changed their requirements enough weight to be referred to the surgeon and be put on the surgery schedule.

Surgeons aren't known for their bedside manner or people skills. But, they are analytical and precise. They don't want to fail, and to them...failing is losing a patient, or performing a surgery that doesn't work. So, they evaluate the situation and make a determination based upon facts, statistics...and maybe some intuition.

I think Kaiser's major mistake is that their surgeons are not bariatric surgeons,. For instance, in programs that have surgeons and that's all they do, I think they're attitude is much better and they have more of an understanding and empathy for the obese patient. I felt like Dr. Li was looking at me like everyone else my whole life--a fat pig who needs to lose weight. I remember hearing Gitty say once that morbid obesity was not a character flaw but I sure didn't get that feeling from him. His whole attitude was so negative and condescending. My friend says he was aloof and unfriendly to her as well.

The other step may involve diving in...doing some writing and thinking...maybe using Kaiser's behaviorial health team: take a class about nutrition, about managing stress, about mindfulness. Or, get an appointment or two with a psychologist recommended by the bariatric department, and talk through some stuff with that person. Come up with a game plan.

I'm been doing a lot of soul searching and wondering why I'm putting myself through all of this. I feel like I'm begging and crawling for something I need and I'm seriously questioning whether I should continue. Sometimes stumbling blocks are there to show you that you are making the wrong choice and I feel like that's being screamed loud and clear. What we want isn't always right for us and we can't always have what we want.

You are the master of your own ship. Sail it. Captain it. Take charge.

You're right. You've pretty much convinced me that this isn't the right choice for me.

> wrote:

HI,

I'm still here, disgusted and frustrated. After I finally saw Dr. Stiles in February and she told me I had lost enough weight, she referred me to a surgeon, Dr. Li. I posted a couple of times to see if anyone knew him but no one responded. Well, I saw him last month and to say it was horrible is an understatment. He was rude and negative and referred to himself using the "royal" we. He told me I wasn't ready and when I asked him why Dr. Stiles would refer me if that was the case he said "Because Dr. Stiles isn't the surgeon, we are.". I left there determined to drop out of the program. Two and a half hours drive from Sacramento for 10 minutes of being made to feel like a piece of crap. I felt he had no compassion or understanding of what it's like to be morbidly obese and the difficulty of losing weight. After raging for about 15 minutes and my daughter telling me off I calmed down and said all right, what do I have to

do to make this idiot happy.

We joined Curves and like it but it's not going that well. My daughter and I have both been sick off and on since the holidays so we've only been about six times in the last month. MY legs hurt so bad sometimes I can barely walk and that half hour is tough. We've been everyday this week so that's an improvement. We're trying to get on track and go everyday. I'm still not sleeping all that well and as we all know, lack of sleep hinders weight loss. I feel like I'm caught in a huge whirlpool. To make matters worse, I just heard yesterday that my daughter's teacher who only got approved in January or so is having surgery on Tuesday! I'm so damn jealous I'm ashamed of myself. Half the people I know having surgery got approved after me. I'm so tired of five hours round trip to SSF for a 10 minutes appointment with more disappointment. I don't even go to the monthly support groups. After Gitty made the

comment about being tired of seeing the same faces month after month, I thought, well I'm never going to show my face again!

My daughter was at Kaiser last week and I ran into a gal who was in orientation with me last year. She looks fabulous and amazingly, she had Dr. Li. I told her about my experience and she said he was aloof and unfriendly but treated her well after surgery, so at least I didn't feel like I was imagining it. I was supposed to see him this past Tuesday, but I knew it would be a waste of time so what with the price of gas and all I just rescheduled for next month. I requested a different surgeon and they wouldn't give me one.

So far, this has been one of the most frustrating experiences of my life. I'm happy for everyone's successes, but it seems like a dream that is just never going to come true for me. Because of the sleep apnea my memory and concentration are getting worse, I'm in more and more pain and all of this is threatening my job becaue my performance is falling off. I had such high hopes for improved health after surgery, but now I'm resigning myself that it will never happen.

Sorry this is such a downer; that's why I haven't written in over two months but I had to get it out.

Chris

April 15, 2005

HI,

I'll address one of your first comments last. Curves asks you to commit a MINIMUM of three times a week and if you can do more they want you too. We try for everyday hoping that at least it will be three times a week!

As for the process, I'm sick of the whole thing. I keep thinking that if it isn't working it must not be for me. I've never been one to try to put square pegs in round wholes and that's what this is all about. I'm convinced that I'm being shown that this was the wrong decision for me. Aftera while beating your head against a brick wall is just stupid and not very much fun. I'm never going to please this idiot and realize I don't want to. I've spent my life trying to please other people. In the last 28 years, my employer has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in health premiums to Kaiser and I shouldn't have to beg for something that I need. Must be that I don't need it. God made me how I am and maybe it's just not meant to be any different. I making myself ill over something that is supposed to make like better. Maybe this is as good as it's ever going to get.

ChrisPamela A Marsh wrote:

honey, you are going to be fine. The processthat we have to go through is definitely an eye openerin some aspects. As you go through the process,remember that this is just that...a process and thatit won't always be like that. You have to refocus fora moment and say what is important to me here? Havingthe surgery, losing the weight and be healthy. Thatis what is important. Just because you hit a bump inthe road does not mean that you have to completely runall the way off the road. Remember...steer your carin the direction that you are skidding. If they thinkyou are not ready then show them you are ready. I amnot sure what SF requires you to do but I knew whatRichmond wanted from me so I gave it to them. It washard but I was determined that nothing they were

goingto say or do to me was going to stop me from havingthat surgery. There were days when I felt like givingup. For example. The day before my surgery (wellthree days because they called me at the end of theday on Friday and I was suppose to go into surgery onTuesday) I got the call saying it was canceled becauseof a cancer patient that needed to have emergencysurgery. I got so mad. I mean it was only pushedback one more week. I went off my diet and said theheck with this. I admit it. I did have a burger andfries, but it could have been so much worse than that.On the way home I had talk myself into the fact thatit was okay for me to just binge because I had earnedit and now they think that with one little phone callthey can destroy all my hard work. I could have eatenice cream and cookies and candy and soda and etc. butI did not. I stopped after a

cheeseburger and smallfries because that was enough guilt for me knowingthat I was on a tail spin to ruin everything I hadworked so hard for. And it did not taste that good atall. I got back on program and stayed the courseuntil I had the surgery. You can do this. This isjust a minor set back. Give them what they want. Try to get into one suppor group meeting a month. Youdon't have to go to curves everyday. The onlyrecommend 3 days as your muscles need time to recoup. Anymore than three days is setting yourself up formajor burn out. And if you can't get to the gym morethan two times, pick a day and just take a stroll,even if only 10 minutes. You know that you are readybut they don't. I hope this helps and hang in there.Pam Marsh-KP Richmond/Dr. Park & Dr. Baggs 9 weekspostop190-59.5 pounds gone.--- chris lopez

wrote:> HI,> > I'm still here, disgusted and frustrated. After I> finally saw Dr. Stiles in February and she told me I> had lost enough weight, she referred me to a> surgeon, Dr. Li. I posted a couple of times to see> if anyone knew him but no one responded. Well, I> saw him last month and to say it was horrible is an> understatment. He was rude and negative and> referred to himself using the "royal" we. He told> me I wasn't ready and when I asked him why Dr.> Stiles would refer me if that was the case he said> "Because Dr. Stiles isn't the surgeon, we are.". I> left there determined to drop out of the program. > Two and a half hours drive from Sacramento for 10> minutes of being made to feel like a piece of crap. > I felt he had no compassion or understanding of what> it's like to be

morbidly obese and the difficulty of> losing weight. After raging for about 15 minutes> and my daughter telling me off I calmed down and> said all right, what do I have to do to make this> idiot happy.> > We joined Curves and like it but it's not going that> well. My daughter and I have both been sick off and> on since the holidays so we've only been about six> times in the last month. MY legs hurt so bad> sometimes I can barely walk and that half hour is> tough. We've been everyday this week so that's an> improvement. We're trying to get on track and go> everyday. I'm still not sleeping all that well and> as we all know, lack of sleep hinders weight loss. > I feel like I'm caught in a huge whirlpool. To make> matters worse, I just heard yesterday that my> daughter's teacher who only got approved in

January> or so is having surgery on Tuesday! I'm so damn> jealous I'm ashamed of myself. Half the people I> know having surgery got approved after me. I'm so> tired of five hours round trip to SSF for a 10> minutes appointment with more disappointment. I> don't even go to the monthly support groups. After> Gitty made the comment about being tired of seeing> the same faces month after month, I> thought, well I'm never going to show my face> again!> > My daughter was at Kaiser last week and I ran into a> gal who was in orientation with me last year. She> looks fabulous and amazingly, she had Dr. Li. I> told her about my experience and she said he was> aloof and unfriendly but treated her well after> surgery, so at least I didn't feel like I was> imagining it. I was supposed to see him this past>

Tuesday, but I knew it would be a waste of time so> what with the price of gas and all I just> rescheduled for next month. I requested a different> surgeon and they wouldn't give me one.> > So far, this has been one of the most frustrating> experiences of my life. I'm happy for everyone's> successes, but it seems like a dream that is just> never going to come true for me. Because of the> sleep apnea my memory and concentration are getting> worse, I'm in more and more pain and all of this is> threatening my job becaue my performance is falling> off. I had such high hopes for improved health> after surgery, but now I'm resigning myself that it> will never happen.> > Sorry this is such a downer; that's why I haven't> written in over two months but I had to get it out.> > Chris>

__________________________________________________

April 15, 2005

Chris...

I sure wasn't trying to convince you that this isn't the right decision for you!! I was trying to tell you that if this is something that you want and need, and believe is right for you...fight for it!!

I know it's exhausting to fight all the time. Sometimes I get bitter and feel like JUST ONCE I'd like to have something be easy. It would be nice to have something that I didn't have to struggle with. It just seems to be my fate that things come hard. And I get very, very tired.

So, I totally get why you are feeling so down and beaten up and exhausted and "what's the use" about all of this. I do get your frustration about being told that you need to lose more weight. That's very discouraging...and feels like a mountain that has to be scaled. I GET what that feels like...I'm going through it, too.

And I understand why people get pissed off about the "hurdles" that are seemingly placed in front of us in our journey. It's easy to think that the health plan just doesn't want to pay...they are just being cheap...putting up artificial barriers, etc..

But, I really think that is INACCURATE. Look, more than most health plans, Kaiser is in the position of understanding the costs associated with obesity related illnesses. They keep patients for a long time, and they tend to have a lot of patients with very serious health risks. They manage care, and are very much at the leading edge when it comes to the recognition of the value of preventative care. They were one of the first plans to cover accupuncture and chiropractor services (may depend upon your coverage, but the point is...they recognize the importance of the whole self.)

So...this surgery, while expensive, is not more expensive than the cost of treating diabetes and the consequent health issues over a life time, high blood pressure, heart disease, arthritis, etc... Globally that cost is much higher for the health plan than is the cost of an operation.

I am an attorney for the organization, and I sit in many meetings on the Health Plan side, on the physician side, and on the hospital side of the house. And I can tell you, in absolute honesty, that the motivation of the people in this organization is to provide the best medicine possible to the most people for the lowest cost.

They don't sit around and try to figure out ways to screw their members. I swear to you. They just don't. They are one of the only HMOs around these parts that is a non-profit organization. What that means is that they don't have to answer to a bunch of stockholders who are demanding that they make a lot of money in order to pay out stock dividends. There are no stock dividends. They don't have to deny expensive treatments so that they can meet the demands of stock holders. Instead, all they have to do is make decisions that are in the best interest of the members...decisions that will help keep the organization around, functioning, state of the art, and beneficial to the health of their members.

I have been a health care attorney for nearly 15 years, and I've worked for law firms representing other health care organizations. Kaiser is absolutely unique in its mission. It is the first place I've worked where I am really proud of the people who work here, and their complete commitment to the health and welfare of the patients. I'm serious, here.

So yes, the bureaucracy can be maddening. And if you think the doctor was dismissive or snotty because of your obesity, well, that's just unacceptable, and you should register a complaint with Member Services. Most bariatric surgeons started out as general surgeons, by the way...whether they are in Kaiser or outside. And most of the surgeons who work in the bariatric department conduct bariatric surgery for about 60% or more of their caseload. So, I think they have been sensitized to the issues. It could be that this doctor is relatively new, or just not very sensitive.

The only way Kaiser can get better is to hear from members about issues that are problematic...so I really hope you will follow up on this.

If what you are saying is that this extra time has given you the opportunity to reflect, and you've decided that the surgery is just not something you want to do...well, by all means, do what your gut is telling you to do. But sometimes, obstacles are put in our path not to prevent us from reaching our goal, but to purify the journey for us...to lead us on a sidepath that we need to take in order to fully actualize.

So, please, don't let anything I said discourage you from pursuing this. I only meant to tell you that YOU can do this. You can do what is necessary to get you to where you need to be. Whether that is through the diet, which one of our members has decided to do in lieu of surgery...or whether it is managing to lose the extra weight...or fighting that decision through member services (keeping in mind that if you are really high in the weight category, losing the extra weight might take away some of the extra fat around your internal organs, making you much less likely to DIE on the table...so that's a very, very important thing!!!)...take charge, because you are worth it. And you should do what is best for you.