Guest guest Posted January 15, 2002 Report Share Posted January 15, 2002 Terry has had two C sections and one gall bladder removal - the latter with a general; not sure on C sections. Message: 2 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:08:41 -0000 Subject: Surgeries I would really like to know if most or all people with MSA have had a surgery sometime in their life, only with general anesthetic. All answers greatly appreciated!! Hugs, Valarie Sennewald Charlottesville, Virginia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2002 Report Share Posted January 15, 2002 I had surgeries since my dx and under general antis. When you have surgery the doctor knows your health record so they monitor you closely. So under genreal it's ok bonniecurlew@... >From: "jasl02116" >Reply-To: shydrager >To: shydrager >Subject: Re: Surgeries >Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:59:39 -0000 > >Valarie- > >I think I qualify. I have had both hips pinned, and later two total >hip replacements; fissure repaired, and excision of a Meckel's >diverticulum, all under general. What are you thinking? > >Tony >in Boston > >+ > > > I would really like to know if most or all people with MSA have had >a > > surgery sometime in their life, only with general anesthetic. All > > answers greatly appreciated!! > > Hugs, > > Valarie > > >If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may >unsubscribe by sending a blank email to > >shydrager-unsubscribe > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2002 Report Share Posted January 15, 2002 : The problem here is that there is hardly anyone who has reached adulthood at all who has never had a general anesthetic. Barbara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2002 Report Share Posted January 15, 2002 Valarie, To my knowledge Rob has never has a general anesthetic, and he has MSA. I have had generals may times and I am fine. Further complicating this is that even with generals, they don't always use the same medication to put you out. It's an interesting concept, but I doubt that there's a link. I saw something recently that links brain trauma to depression, even years after the injury. There has been some talk about brain trauma and MSA, and although there's no concrete evidence that there is a link, I personally think that's more likely. Incidently, Rob's never has a brain trauma either, that I know of. The other possible link that has been mentioned is to chemicals or radiation exposure. Rob worked as a lifeguard and had lots of exposure to pool chemicals like chlorine, painted bridges a couple of summers so had exposure to lead based paints and chemicals, and while in the Air Force was on an anti- balistic missle crew (in Arkansas) so was exposed to God-knows-what. What does all this mean? I wish I knew! But let's all keep searching! Carol & Rob > Hi Tony, > What I am thinking about this thread is that maybe the anesthsia > could have done something to us. I'd love to know if there is someone > with MSA that NEVER had a general. Thanks for replying. > Hugs, > Valarie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2002 Report Share Posted January 15, 2002 Dear Sir Yes Ray an MSA sufferer has had a gall bladdder operation. Cheers Clare Surgeries > I would really like to know if most or all people with MSA have had a > surgery sometime in their life, only with general anesthetic. All > answers greatly appreciated!! > Hugs, > Valarie > > > If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may > unsubscribe by sending a blank email to > > shydrager-unsubscribe > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2002 Report Share Posted January 15, 2002 Hi At last they have let me back on the group!!! Thought I had been banned! ) Regardng surgeries,I have had 40 something since age 17. Years ago one always had a strange sound and feeling in the head as you went out. My experience and others. Later years nothing is felt you are just gone with no knowledge. No reason for count down as was once done, it is too quick. Love Anne > Actually Bill, I do know several people that have NEVER had a general > anesthetic. I myself have had probably 8, as many as I could > remember, and during one intial anesthesia dose they gave me no > counting to do, and never even told me I was going out now (like all > others I had), BUT I had a HORRIBLE feeling in my head when I was > going out and I can't help but wonder if some kind of cerebral damage > happened to me then. Many thanks for your replys. > Hugs, > Valarie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 Carole, Thanks I think I wanted to hear what you said!!! Hugs, Valarie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 Dear Valarie, I have long suspected that back surgery and/or general anesthetic were either responsible for or exacerbated already present symptoms. Bill had lower back surgery in 1982 and his earliest symptoms appeared shortly after that. I have questioned his various doctors concerning the connection, since many nerves run through the spine, but they all have poo-pooed the theory. I also know for a fact that every time he had surgery (which was many times because of broken bones from falls and a knee replacement) his symptoms were worse and he took longer to regain his many former abilities. The last surgery eliminated his ability to urinate on his own. I don't know if it was the general anesthetic that caused this, but it sure gives food for thought. Marie Fox from Indy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 Dear Valarie, I have long suspected that back surgery and/or general anesthetic were either responsible for or exacerbated already present symptoms. Bill had lower back surgery in 1982 and his earliest symptoms appeared shortly after that. I have questioned his various doctors concerning the connection, since many nerves run through the spine, but they all have poo-pooed the theory. I also know for a fact that every time he had surgery (which was many times because of broken bones from falls and a knee replacement) his symptoms were worse and he took longer to regain his many former abilities. The last surgery eliminated his ability to urinate on his own. I don't know if it was the general anesthetic that caused this, but it sure gives food for thought. Marie Fox from Indy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 Marie, Thanks sooo much for your response, I really appreciated it! My last surgery I had work on the bladder but was a few years until bladder acted up on me. Just dunno!! Hugs, Valarie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 This condition does not show up on MRIs, but Parkinson's does show up on PET Scans, so I suppose some change would show for most of the variations of MSA. Barbara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 This condition does not show up on MRIs, but Parkinson's does show up on PET Scans, so I suppose some change would show for most of the variations of MSA. Barbara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 I feel their is some connection. I had no symptoms of PD or MSA till 6 month after by-pass surgery. To much of a coincidence to suit me. Chuck Sarley Re: Surgeries > Marie, > Thanks sooo much for your response, I really appreciated it! My last > surgery I had work on the bladder but was a few years until bladder > acted up on me. Just dunno!! > Hugs, > Valarie > > > > If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may > unsubscribe by sending a blank email to > > shydrager-unsubscribe > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 I feel their is some connection. I had no symptoms of PD or MSA till 6 month after by-pass surgery. To much of a coincidence to suit me. Chuck Sarley Re: Surgeries > Marie, > Thanks sooo much for your response, I really appreciated it! My last > surgery I had work on the bladder but was a few years until bladder > acted up on me. Just dunno!! > Hugs, > Valarie > > > > If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may > unsubscribe by sending a blank email to > > shydrager-unsubscribe > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 I feel their is some connection. I had no symptoms of PD or MSA till 6 month after by-pass surgery. To much of a coincidence to suit me. Chuck Sarley Re: Surgeries > Marie, > Thanks sooo much for your response, I really appreciated it! My last > surgery I had work on the bladder but was a few years until bladder > acted up on me. Just dunno!! > Hugs, > Valarie > > > > If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may > unsubscribe by sending a blank email to > > shydrager-unsubscribe > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 In response to this topic, I don't believe my brother (who has MSA) has ever had a surgery of any kind that required general anesthesia. Jerry Cash Re: Surgeries Hi Tony, What I am thinking about this thread is that maybe the anesthsia could have done something to us. I'd love to know if there is someone with MSA that NEVER had a general. Thanks for replying. Hugs, Valarie If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may unsubscribe by sending a blank email to shydrager-unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 In response to this topic, I don't believe my brother (who has MSA) has ever had a surgery of any kind that required general anesthesia. Jerry Cash Re: Surgeries Hi Tony, What I am thinking about this thread is that maybe the anesthsia could have done something to us. I'd love to know if there is someone with MSA that NEVER had a general. Thanks for replying. Hugs, Valarie If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may unsubscribe by sending a blank email to shydrager-unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 In response to this topic, I don't believe my brother (who has MSA) has ever had a surgery of any kind that required general anesthesia. Jerry Cash Re: Surgeries Hi Tony, What I am thinking about this thread is that maybe the anesthsia could have done something to us. I'd love to know if there is someone with MSA that NEVER had a general. Thanks for replying. Hugs, Valarie If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may unsubscribe by sending a blank email to shydrager-unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 Hi all, One thing to remember here about surgery is that when you have braincells dying for years (who knows how many years) it takes some time to show up. About 240,000 cells out of 400,000 have to die before the movement disorder becomes apparent and symptoms show up. Surgery does weaken the body (I had heart bypass surgery in 1996 and a kidney operation in 1980 and still show no symptoms of MSA) so it could make it show up slightly quicker. However, how many of you had a sinus infection, UTI or other infection before your MSA symptoms showed up. I had more than twice as many operations as Charlotte, shouldn't I be getting MSA? I do not know of ANY of my friends who have not had general anesthesia at some point in their lives and are 60 years old. Remember that wisdom teeth are almost always pulled under general anesthesia. The feeling of lack of movement caused by anesthesia is because it affects movement areas of the brain, just as MSA does. A MSA patient should not need as much to shut down the pain centers as communication is already low. But rats given anesthesia do not develop MSA like symptoms and days of rat life compare to years of human life. Their brains motor control function much like human brains. However in three days, less than 10% of the list have said they had major surgery. This is going like carbon monoxide, pesticides, hydrocarbons, agent orange, radiation and petroleum distillates. They may all contribute, but are not a specific cause. I will bet that at least 90% of the list (including caregivers) have had general anesthesia at least once in their lives. There was a high co-orelation of MSA and X-rays but the same thing with caregivers too. I'll also bet that well over 90% of caregivers and patients over 65 have had a x-ray in their life time - remember when they fitted shoes in the 40's with x-rays? That was great fun looking at your toes move in the shoes. That green color was caused by x-rays. We need to focus on a cure. Remember that the President has effectively stopped human research and Congress has stopped efforts to over ride that stoppage. They are curing mice of Parkinson's, yet can not move to humans. Take care, Bill Werre --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ --------- Chuck Sarley wrote: > I feel their is some connection. I had no symptoms of PD or MSA till 6 > month after by-pass surgery. To much of a coincidence to suit me. > Chuck Sarley > Re: Surgeries > > > Marie, > > Thanks sooo much for your response, I really appreciated it! My last > > surgery I had work on the bladder but was a few years until bladder > > acted up on me. Just dunno!! > > Hugs, > > Valarie > > > > > > > > If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may > > unsubscribe by sending a blank email to > > > > shydrager-unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 Hi all, One thing to remember here about surgery is that when you have braincells dying for years (who knows how many years) it takes some time to show up. About 240,000 cells out of 400,000 have to die before the movement disorder becomes apparent and symptoms show up. Surgery does weaken the body (I had heart bypass surgery in 1996 and a kidney operation in 1980 and still show no symptoms of MSA) so it could make it show up slightly quicker. However, how many of you had a sinus infection, UTI or other infection before your MSA symptoms showed up. I had more than twice as many operations as Charlotte, shouldn't I be getting MSA? I do not know of ANY of my friends who have not had general anesthesia at some point in their lives and are 60 years old. Remember that wisdom teeth are almost always pulled under general anesthesia. The feeling of lack of movement caused by anesthesia is because it affects movement areas of the brain, just as MSA does. A MSA patient should not need as much to shut down the pain centers as communication is already low. But rats given anesthesia do not develop MSA like symptoms and days of rat life compare to years of human life. Their brains motor control function much like human brains. However in three days, less than 10% of the list have said they had major surgery. This is going like carbon monoxide, pesticides, hydrocarbons, agent orange, radiation and petroleum distillates. They may all contribute, but are not a specific cause. I will bet that at least 90% of the list (including caregivers) have had general anesthesia at least once in their lives. There was a high co-orelation of MSA and X-rays but the same thing with caregivers too. I'll also bet that well over 90% of caregivers and patients over 65 have had a x-ray in their life time - remember when they fitted shoes in the 40's with x-rays? That was great fun looking at your toes move in the shoes. That green color was caused by x-rays. We need to focus on a cure. Remember that the President has effectively stopped human research and Congress has stopped efforts to over ride that stoppage. They are curing mice of Parkinson's, yet can not move to humans. Take care, Bill Werre --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ --------- Chuck Sarley wrote: > I feel their is some connection. I had no symptoms of PD or MSA till 6 > month after by-pass surgery. To much of a coincidence to suit me. > Chuck Sarley > Re: Surgeries > > > Marie, > > Thanks sooo much for your response, I really appreciated it! My last > > surgery I had work on the bladder but was a few years until bladder > > acted up on me. Just dunno!! > > Hugs, > > Valarie > > > > > > > > If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may > > unsubscribe by sending a blank email to > > > > shydrager-unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 Hi all, One thing to remember here about surgery is that when you have braincells dying for years (who knows how many years) it takes some time to show up. About 240,000 cells out of 400,000 have to die before the movement disorder becomes apparent and symptoms show up. Surgery does weaken the body (I had heart bypass surgery in 1996 and a kidney operation in 1980 and still show no symptoms of MSA) so it could make it show up slightly quicker. However, how many of you had a sinus infection, UTI or other infection before your MSA symptoms showed up. I had more than twice as many operations as Charlotte, shouldn't I be getting MSA? I do not know of ANY of my friends who have not had general anesthesia at some point in their lives and are 60 years old. Remember that wisdom teeth are almost always pulled under general anesthesia. The feeling of lack of movement caused by anesthesia is because it affects movement areas of the brain, just as MSA does. A MSA patient should not need as much to shut down the pain centers as communication is already low. But rats given anesthesia do not develop MSA like symptoms and days of rat life compare to years of human life. Their brains motor control function much like human brains. However in three days, less than 10% of the list have said they had major surgery. This is going like carbon monoxide, pesticides, hydrocarbons, agent orange, radiation and petroleum distillates. They may all contribute, but are not a specific cause. I will bet that at least 90% of the list (including caregivers) have had general anesthesia at least once in their lives. There was a high co-orelation of MSA and X-rays but the same thing with caregivers too. I'll also bet that well over 90% of caregivers and patients over 65 have had a x-ray in their life time - remember when they fitted shoes in the 40's with x-rays? That was great fun looking at your toes move in the shoes. That green color was caused by x-rays. We need to focus on a cure. Remember that the President has effectively stopped human research and Congress has stopped efforts to over ride that stoppage. They are curing mice of Parkinson's, yet can not move to humans. Take care, Bill Werre --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ --------- Chuck Sarley wrote: > I feel their is some connection. I had no symptoms of PD or MSA till 6 > month after by-pass surgery. To much of a coincidence to suit me. > Chuck Sarley > Re: Surgeries > > > Marie, > > Thanks sooo much for your response, I really appreciated it! My last > > surgery I had work on the bladder but was a few years until bladder > > acted up on me. Just dunno!! > > Hugs, > > Valarie > > > > > > > > If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may > > unsubscribe by sending a blank email to > > > > shydrager-unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 To expound a bit on Bill's observations, it's probably a situation that some individuals have a predisposition or genetic susceptibility to acquire MSA and that some insult to their systems (which could be a virus, a chemical, an injury, a environmental toxin, etc.) triggers the process. This could explain why others who have had the same exposure may not acquire MSA. Until more is learned about the disease, we can only speculate. With that said, I see no harm in those on the list being alert to recognizing any of the commonalities in the event the scientists may have over-looked or not suspsected it. I for instance, continue to wonder about my brother's exposure to the herpes simplex virus and to pesticides as a possible catalyst for his MSA. Best regards, Jerry Cash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 To expound a bit on Bill's observations, it's probably a situation that some individuals have a predisposition or genetic susceptibility to acquire MSA and that some insult to their systems (which could be a virus, a chemical, an injury, a environmental toxin, etc.) triggers the process. This could explain why others who have had the same exposure may not acquire MSA. Until more is learned about the disease, we can only speculate. With that said, I see no harm in those on the list being alert to recognizing any of the commonalities in the event the scientists may have over-looked or not suspsected it. I for instance, continue to wonder about my brother's exposure to the herpes simplex virus and to pesticides as a possible catalyst for his MSA. Best regards, Jerry Cash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 To expound a bit on Bill's observations, it's probably a situation that some individuals have a predisposition or genetic susceptibility to acquire MSA and that some insult to their systems (which could be a virus, a chemical, an injury, a environmental toxin, etc.) triggers the process. This could explain why others who have had the same exposure may not acquire MSA. Until more is learned about the disease, we can only speculate. With that said, I see no harm in those on the list being alert to recognizing any of the commonalities in the event the scientists may have over-looked or not suspsected it. I for instance, continue to wonder about my brother's exposure to the herpes simplex virus and to pesticides as a possible catalyst for his MSA. Best regards, Jerry Cash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 Greetings Bill! Just as a note on this: > ... when you have braincells dying for years (who knows how > many years) it takes some time to show up. About 240,000 > cells out of 400,000 have to die before the movement disorder > becomes apparent and symptoms show up. Interestingly, it is often common with MSA for this cell death (or degeneration) not to show up in MRIs for quite some time. As a result of this and other symptoms, my neurologist finds MSA consistent with my symptoms. All my MRIs show normal. I suspect in a year to two that might not be the case. I also suspect it depends on the part of the brain impacted. For example, the structures controlling balance are quite small. Cell death in this structure may not be very clear on an MRI. Ditto for visual coordination centers. As a note on surgery. Yes, I had general anesthesia for wisdom teeth extraction. But I am amazingly resistant to anesthesia of any type. I was aware of the procedure! Most people remember nothing. I had warned my surgeon dentists found Novocain to be ineffective for me. I've had numerous teeth drilled and roots cleaned, still able to feel EVERYTHING! So, he took he time to explain the procedure to me as he progressed. This helped me stay calm, even though I could not move. Unpleasant situation. So, I personally doubt the anesthesia impacted me. I am more inclined (as Jerry noted) to think other environmental toxins may have triggered it. Remember those mosquito foggers? Who knows. As Bill points out, understanding the process and a cure is more important than fully knowing the trigger. Regards, =jbf= B. Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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