Guest guest Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 In a message dated 1/22/2003 4:44:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, lindstromw@... writes: > surgeons all agree > that they can " see " better with the lap exposure.... > THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 In a message dated 1/22/2003 4:16:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, vcopeland21014@... writes: > Ellen, I'm not sure > where you're getting your information? All I know is that every serious complication(infection, leaks,death) were all performed OPEN..just the facts.These are documented cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 In a message dated 1/22/03 10:58:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, telephrus@... writes: > > Ellen, I'm not sure > > where you're getting your information? > > All I know is that every serious complication(infection, leaks,death) were > all performed OPEN..just the facts.These are documented cases. > I know several people who had Lap who got infections, and leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Ok, I have to step in on this one. Laprascopic surgery of any kind is not done blindly. A camera is placed in the abdomen after filling it with carbon dioxide. LOTS OF IT so you are pretty expanded. 2 televisions are used and they are at least 19 " screens in size that's a whole lot of area to be seen. Any surgery done in competent hands can have both good and bad outcomes. NO surgery is without complications including death. It's a personal choice. I chose to have my surgery done Lap. Yes I did have complications but the same complications come up open. It just happens it's the luck of the draw. The Association of Bariatric surgeons recommends " 2 " advanced Laprascopic trained surgeons perform this procedure. Not a resident, and surgeon, not a surgical assistant and surgeon BUT 2 surgeons. As an operating room nurse I see more and more types of surgery being done macroscopically, such as fixing an aortic aneurysm, open heart surgery, Lung biopsies, and partial lung removals. It's the wave of the future. It is here to stay. They remove gallbladders, appendixes, kidneys, nissen fundoplications,and so on. Every surgeon is going to have his or her preference in what they do. Surgery is an art. Some are better at other things then others. You have to do your research and talk to surgeons, find out how many the've done. The leak rate goes from 1% open non-transected stomach to 5% lap as the stomach is actually transected, you don't have to ask for it, it's automatically done that way. So, who's right, who's wrong, no one, everyone has to feel comfortable with his/her own decision, and that's what it is YOUR decision. IT's your BODY.... www.sabariatrics.com is a good web site with pictures of the lap procedure, and open. Thanks for letting me whine about my g-tube. Yes it's fixed and I'm down now a total of 40 lbs I like in Sac. went on protein shakes pre-op and had lost almost 15 lbs pre surgery. Mind you I can't do them now post op since I have a feeding tube and yes still have drains, will find out fri if they can be pulled after the surgeon looks at my latest cat scan. Good luck everyone. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Ellen, I know of several deaths that have occurred after having had lap RNY . Serious and life threatening complications can and do occur after any type surgery.. However, you must understand that by being morbidly obese, your risks of complications, ( infections, leaks, death) are more increased... wouldnt matter if you were having wls, your appendix removed, gall bladder removed, etc.. This is why most wls surgeons require such extensive testing and clearance before performing surgery... I can truly say, however, that serious and life threatening complications can and do occur, and not all of them are fatal.. I have survived three surgeries due to some serious and life threatening complications in the past two years.. Would I have this surgery again.. you betcha.. I am much healthier and way more happier weighing in at 205 pounds less than I started out.. I do believe that the complications and subsequent surgeries that I underwent has made me a much stronger person in spirit, and character. I hope you will not be offended by what I have written, but that you will understand that risks go with any type surgery.. not just those surgeries that are open.. Yes, all of my wls were open.. I , however, had my gallbladder removed several years prior to wls, and due to my obesity, had complications.. infection, and an incision that burst open after my staples were removed.. and this was done lap.. I have been there on both sides.. so I am not just talking.. I have experienced.. Take care... I wish you the very best. Hugs, from GA open RNY 12/12/00 Revision 04/18/01 Revision 02/07/02 St wt.... 392 Cw.......187 Wt loss..-205 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 I think this view depends on the surgeon, and your body. Yes, some lap surgeries are very successful.. and the surgeon performing the lap surgery is very expertised at using the lap instruments.. However, sometimes, it is impossible for the surgeon to see well enough to continue the surgery lap.. and they must go open to ensure as safe a procedure as possible.. This is often due to an enlarged liver, scar tissue from previous abdominal surgeries, etc.. Lap is not always the safest or easiest surgery to see everything ..... and the recovery isnt always easier either.. I have had friends who had a difficult lap surgery and a long and difficult recovery. Hugs, from GA open RNY 12/12/00 Revision 04/18/01 Revision 02/07/02 St wt.... 392 Cw.......187 Wt loss..-205 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Interesting concept. Risk of leak is double with lap. They can't hand sew. I saw some instruments at the ASBS conf that are sposta be the lap equivalent of hand sewn, but I'll believe it when I see it. Risk of hernia or wound infection is higher with open, of course. Thanks, Vitalady, Inc. T www.vitalady.com If you are interested in PayPal, please click here: https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=vitalady%40bigfoot.com Re: Open vs. Lap Surgery In a message dated 1/22/2003 4:16:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, vcopeland21014@... writes: > Ellen, I'm not sure > where you're getting your information? All I know is that every serious complication(infection, leaks,death) were all performed OPEN..just the facts.These are documented cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Not true....Dr. Higa's technique (and adapted by many others) includes a hand sewn anastomosis....the fact is that good lap surgeons have good results....good open surgeons have good results - - lap has certain recovery advantages because it is minimally invasive, but you wouldn't likely want to go to an inexperienced lap surgeon or one who does not have the advanced lap skills needed to pull off these procedures.....it's probably time to move on off of this thread... Walter Lindstrom, Jr., Esquire Obesity Law & Advocacy Center www.obesitylaw.com Re: Open vs. Lap Surgery > > > In a message dated 1/22/2003 4:16:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, > vcopeland21014@... writes: > > > Ellen, I'm not sure > > where you're getting your information? > > All I know is that every serious complication(infection, leaks,death) were > all performed OPEN..just the facts.These are documented cases. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 In a message dated 1/23/2003 12:14:37 AM Pacific Standard Time, Gigi8083@... writes: > I hope you will not be offended by what I have written, but that you will > understand that risks go with any Of course I am not offended.I am just saying that the person that wrote had the option of waiting a few months to have it done lap or have it done open sooner.To me, waiting would be in order, as I wanted lap not open.Rushing into it without doing research about dr and statistics arn't wise,don't you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 In a message dated 1/23/03 8:36:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, terry@... writes: > ? Is waiting 6+ more months just for the consult going to help them > in any way? No. > > Theresa, I agreed with EVERYTHING you wrote....and to note your last comment, I question whether I would have been alive if I had waited 6 months, my co morbs were so bad. I started out to have Lap, but they had to open me up part way thru. they gave me the leak test before they closed me up..a few times, according to my surg notes, and no leak...the next day..BAM...a leak. Also I had a huge open incision AND the Lap incisions. I got a huge infection in my open incision, and also on of my lap incision got nasty for a while. So go figure! ((((HUGS))))) heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 In a message dated 1/22/2003 11:28:18 PM Central Standard Time, vitalady@... writes: > Risk of hernia..... is higher with open, of course. I find that could be a good thing when trying to get your panni done. ~Janet~ Home of the Super-Pei <A HREF= " http://www.4shar-pei.com/ " >Thornapple Hill Chinese Shar-Pei</A> www.4shar-pei.com <A HREF= " http://www.4shar-pei.com/lunar " >Lunar Web Design</A> " He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion " -- Marcus Tullius Cicero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 In a message dated 1/23/2003 10:27:33 AM Central Standard Time, lodom@... writes: > > NOT too good from my seat mine was so bad I could not wait to get Panni > done > > I did think about you honey when I said that. I'm just so glad you are doing ok now. ~Janet~ Home of the Super-Pei <A HREF= " http://www.4shar-pei.com/ " >Thornapple Hill Chinese Shar-Pei</A> www.4shar-pei.com <A HREF= " http://www.4shar-pei.com/lunar " >Lunar Web Design</A> " He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion " -- Marcus Tullius Cicero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 I don't know where you're finding this " documented " information, but from what I understand, everything you just wrote is untrue. I may be wrong, but I don't believe so in this case. The risk of a leak is HIGHER with lap surgery. In fact, my original surgeon does a swallow type test to check for leaks ONLY on his lap patients. There is a risk of infection with ANY surgery, including lap. I personally know people who have had lap surgery who have had one or more of the incisions get infected. Saying that it's a higher risk of death in open surgery is wrong as well. There is a risk of death in ANY surgery, lap or open. The majority of fatal complications have to do with the surgeries themselves, not the incisions. Passing out bad information like this is irresponsible. Many people on this board have had or are about to have open surgery. It is unfair and irresponsible to give out untrue information just to " prove " a point when it will needlessly worry people. BOTH laparoscopic surgery and open surgery are good options and they BOTH have their pros and cons. We can all understand " defending " your the type of surgery that you chose, but you don't need to do it to the detriment of other types. I prefer open surgery, but I have never said that anyone is wrong for choosing lap. My mother chose lap surgery because of the recovery time, she needed to be up and about again quickly and didn't have the extra time that open surgery could possibly have taken. Whether one or the other is better for an individual is their choice. Both types are good and if one type will allow me to have surgery 6+ months sooner, I personally would choose that method, all other factors being the same. That's not being irresponsible or rushing into things. That's being realistic. If someone has done their research and is ready to have surgery, why not choose the method that will get them there faster? Is waiting 6+ more months just for the consult going to help them in any way? No. ------------------------------------------------ Terry Mayers 5DollarHosting.comR http://www.5dollarhosting.com (877)-838-HOST / .... because it shouldn't cost a fortune to make a fortune! R Re: Open vs. Lap Surgery In a message dated 1/22/2003 4:16:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, vcopeland21014@... writes: > Ellen, I'm not sure > where you're getting your information? All I know is that every serious complication(infection, leaks,death) were all performed OPEN..just the facts.These are documented cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 UM Ellen, I got a leak, and my surgery both were done Lap. The leak rate is higher from 1% open to 5%lap nationally.... Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 Or where the surgeon nicked another organ (colon and spleen is the people I've encountered). The surgeon did not realize the colon was nicked until post op and had to go back in to repair days later. Thankfully before major infection could set in. Same with the spleen. I, for one had an open. And yes, maybe the surgeons say they can SEE better with the lap technology but I trust two REAL HANDS working directly on my organs rather than two ROBOTIC ARMS anyday. I know there are some really experienced, excellent lap surgeons out there so I would investigate their statistics and not just take their word for them. Talk to the surgeon's patients. Same with your Open surgeon. Make an informed decision. Rev. Pam in PA Re: Open vs. Lap Surgery In a message dated 1/22/03 10:58:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, telephrus@... writes: > > Ellen, I'm not sure > > where you're getting your information? > > All I know is that every serious complication(infection, leaks,death) were > all performed OPEN..just the facts.These are documented cases. > I know several people who had Lap who got infections, and leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 Yea, tell it like it is Terry! Rev. Pam in PA Re: Open vs. Lap Surgery In a message dated 1/22/2003 4:16:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, vcopeland21014@... writes: > Ellen, I'm not sure > where you're getting your information? All I know is that every serious complication(infection, leaks,death) were all performed OPEN..just the facts.These are documented cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 NOT too good from my seat mine was so bad I could not wait to get Panni done Re: Open vs. Lap Surgery > In a message dated 1/22/2003 11:28:18 PM Central Standard Time, > vitalady@... writes: > > > > Risk of hernia..... is higher with open, of course. > > > I find that could be a good thing when trying to get your panni done. > > > > > ~Janet~ > Home of the Super-Pei > <A HREF= " http://www.4shar-pei.com/ " >Thornapple Hill Chinese Shar-Pei</A> > www.4shar-pei.com > <A HREF= " http://www.4shar-pei.com/lunar " >Lunar Web Design</A> > > " He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, > his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat > of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion " > -- Marcus Tullius Cicero > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 The leak test they do on the table is really accurate. I saw it done & they can't MISS a leak. BUT. There is some evidence that in moving around, the intestine may pull loose. So, in that case, they never would see in the " blow up the bag " test on the table. It took movement to make it pull apart. Don also leaked a day or 4 later. I see some docs are doing a swallow on the 2nd or 3rd day. Nasty as it sounds, the leak was worse & I'd kinda like to see it become std testing. Sigh. Thanks, Vitalady, Inc. T www.vitalady.com If you are interested in PayPal, please click here: https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=vitalady%40bigfoot.com Re: Open vs. Lap Surgery In a message dated 1/23/03 8:36:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, terry@... writes: > ? Is waiting 6+ more months just for the consult going to help them > in any way? No. > > Theresa, I agreed with EVERYTHING you wrote....and to note your last comment, I question whether I would have been alive if I had waited 6 months, my co morbs were so bad. I started out to have Lap, but they had to open me up part way thru. they gave me the leak test before they closed me up..a few times, according to my surg notes, and no leak...the next day..BAM...a leak. Also I had a huge open incision AND the Lap incisions. I got a huge infection in my open incision, and also on of my lap incision got nasty for a while. So go figure! ((((HUGS))))) heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 Our Dr's here do one on the table,one in 24 hours,one in 24 hours more Re: Open vs. Lap Surgery > > > In a message dated 1/23/03 8:36:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, > terry@... writes: > > > > ? Is waiting 6+ more months just for the consult going to help them > > in any way? No. > > > > > Theresa, I agreed with EVERYTHING you wrote....and to note your last comment, > I question whether I would have been alive if I had waited 6 months, my co > morbs were so bad. I started out to have Lap, but they had to open me up > part way thru. they gave me the leak test before they closed me up..a few > times, according to my surg notes, and no leak...the next day..BAM...a leak. > Also I had a huge open incision AND the Lap incisions. I got a huge > infection in my open incision, and also on of my lap incision got nasty for a > while. So go figure! ((((HUGS))))) heather > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 I wouldn't want to be awake for it (remember I don't do liquids or lozenges), but it'd be better to have that stamp of approval after walking & getting in & out of bed. I think. I was there when Don leaked 4 days postie. He was home, doing fine, recovering way better than I did. And blam. Thanks, Vitalady, Inc. T www.vitalady.com If you are interested in PayPal, please click here: https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=vitalady%40bigfoot.com Re: Open vs. Lap Surgery > > > In a message dated 1/23/03 8:36:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, > terry@... writes: > > > > ? Is waiting 6+ more months just for the consult going to help them > > in any way? No. > > > > > Theresa, I agreed with EVERYTHING you wrote....and to note your last comment, > I question whether I would have been alive if I had waited 6 months, my co > morbs were so bad. I started out to have Lap, but they had to open me up > part way thru. they gave me the leak test before they closed me up..a few > times, according to my surg notes, and no leak...the next day..BAM...a leak. > Also I had a huge open incision AND the Lap incisions. I got a huge > infection in my open incision, and also on of my lap incision got nasty for a > while. So go figure! ((((HUGS))))) heather > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 I wouldn't want to be awake for it (remember I don't do liquids or lozenges), but it'd be better to have that stamp of approval after walking & getting in & out of bed. I think. I was there when Don leaked 4 days postie. He was home, doing fine, recovering way better than I did. And blam. Thanks, Vitalady, Inc. T www.vitalady.com If you are interested in PayPal, please click here: https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=vitalady%40bigfoot.com Re: Open vs. Lap Surgery > > > In a message dated 1/23/03 8:36:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, > terry@... writes: > > > > ? Is waiting 6+ more months just for the consult going to help them > > in any way? No. > > > > > Theresa, I agreed with EVERYTHING you wrote....and to note your last comment, > I question whether I would have been alive if I had waited 6 months, my co > morbs were so bad. I started out to have Lap, but they had to open me up > part way thru. they gave me the leak test before they closed me up..a few > times, according to my surg notes, and no leak...the next day..BAM...a leak. > Also I had a huge open incision AND the Lap incisions. I got a huge > infection in my open incision, and also on of my lap incision got nasty for a > while. So go figure! ((((HUGS))))) heather > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 See when I thought hernia I wanted skin off too but he said I could not wait so *sticks out tongue* now I have a big flab YUCK could probably be in a ten with that off Re: Open vs. Lap Surgery > > > > > > > In a message dated 1/22/2003 11:28:18 PM Central Standard Time, > > > vitalady@... writes: > > > > > > > > > > Risk of hernia..... is higher with open, of course. > > > > > > > > > I find that could be a good thing when trying to get your panni done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~Janet~ > > > Home of the Super-Pei > > > <A HREF= " http://www.4shar-pei.com/ " >Thornapple Hill Chinese Shar-Pei</A> > > > www.4shar-pei.com > > > <A HREF= " http://www.4shar-pei.com/lunar " >Lunar Web Design</A> > > > > > > " He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his > > life, > > > his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last > > beat > > > of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion " > > > -- Marcus Tullius Cicero > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 Do they do hand assisted lap? Thanks, Vitalady, Inc. T www.vitalady.com If you are interested in PayPal, please click here: https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=vitalady%40bigfoot.com Re: Open vs. Lap Surgery > > > In a message dated 1/22/2003 4:16:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, > vcopeland21014@... writes: > > > Ellen, I'm not sure > > where you're getting your information? > > All I know is that every serious complication(infection, leaks,death) were > all performed OPEN..just the facts.These are documented cases. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 My take on all of this is we each do what is best for us, what we are comfotable with. I had an open hysterectomy that the entire wound opened up, was months in the healing. When I had the RNY, I sought out lap. Hoping to avoid a repeat. I did beautifully with the lap, no problems what so ever. The bottom line, if you trust your life in your surgeons hands, then trust him to know what type of surgery he is most comfortable with for you. Hugs, Jules Romero noliptoday@... Louisiana 381/257/160 down 124 lbs Lap RNY 5-29-2002 FRIENDS are the siblings God forgot to give us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 Um, I'm picturing a surgeon with his hand inside one little bitty lap hole and those sticks in the others. lol. That's probably not it though, huh? Terry Vitalady wrote: > Do they do hand assisted lap? > > > Thanks, > > > Vitalady, Inc. T > www.vitalady.com > > If you are interested in PayPal, please click here: > https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=vitalady%40bigfoot.com > > Re: Open vs. Lap Surgery > > > > > > In a message dated 1/22/2003 4:16:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > vcopeland21014@... writes: > > > > > Ellen, I'm not sure > > > where you're getting your information? > > > > All I know is that every serious complication(infection, > leaks,death) > were > > all performed OPEN..just the facts.These are documented cases. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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