Re: What TSH, FT3, FT4 numbers are you shooting for?

[Guest guest]

Before I answer this, remember: don't shoot for numbers. Shoot for

symptoms. Shoot for the elimination of symptoms, no matter what the

numbers are. Once upon a time, there were NO labs. There was simply

Armour, and dosing until all symptoms were gone.

" Generally " , when someone has rid themselves of hypo symptoms, their

TSH is suppressed (below one) and their free T3 is at the top if not

slightly over. Your free T3 is very over. So....if you or your doc

went by numbers, you might mess up a good thing. You may be one of

those who needs even more Armour, NO MATTER HOW HIGH your free T3 is.

What is your Ferritin?? Extreme drowsiness can be caused by low

Ferritin, which is common in many hypo folks here.

Was the below lab taken after you took your Armour, by the way?

Janie

>

> I'm a bit confused on this issue. What numbers are you shooting

> for? After 2 months feeling better since I changed to armour,

having

> a week of the symptoms returning. Most disturbing one being

extreme

> drowsiness. My dr said I could do less meds (cut out 37 synthroid)

> and maybe feel better or do the same and maybe be better. She said

> maybe my levels will bounce back to normal in time. Really no

> answer or decision, so I'm sitting here confused and not sure what

> to do.

>

> Thanks,

>

> TSH - <.01

> FT3 - 535 (230-420)

> FT4 - 1.9 (.8-1.8)

>

> On 1 grain armour, 1/2 a 75 synthroid.

[Guest guest]

Your numbers are showing that you have a health issue or issues that

are preventing your tissues from being able to use thyriod hormone

and it is building up in the blood.

On 1 grain armour, 1/2 a 75 synthroid.

Your dose is too small to be an overdose, except in situations where

it has become unusable by the body.

Here are some possible causes:

-Low adrenal function or low cortisol

-Low iron reserves and anemia

-Low blood sugar from a restrictive diet

-Low nutrition or nurtritional uptake that is not adequate for your

increased metabolic rate. This can easily happen in hypothyroidism

bcause hypothyroidism interferes with the uptake of nutrition.

-A thyroid dose raise, when your body and adrenals wer not ready or

a thyroid dose raise that is too large for you.

-Stress

-Illness

-Lack of adequate sleep

-Too much exercise for your body's tolerance

-All of the 5 above increase adrenal demands and increase

nutritional needs

In a problem with low adrenal or nutrional status, thryoid hormone

cannot be used by cells as they lack the capacity to use it. So, it

builds up in the blood stream and will often give symptoms of

overdose, such as a racing heart, the shakes, weakness, fatigue and

hypoglycemia just to mention a few. Because the heart and muscles

have high blood flow to them, they are most affected by thyroid

hormone building up in the blood. Meanwhile the rest of the tissues

in the body are deprived.

My advice is that you can drop back down on your dose for a little

while to give your body a chance to recover and then try again

perhaps at a lower dose rise next time. You can try adrenal support

if you suspect that is the cause and leave your dose as is. It

should improve in a month or two and thyroid levels will drop down

to normal or low again as it will be able to get into tissues. You

can try to address whatever health issue you think may be the cause

and stay the course on dose and I would advise getting lots of rest

and avoiding stress for a while.

The reason that I say that your dose cannot be an overdose, except

if you can't use it is because the average healthy thyroid makes

about 4-1/2 to 5 grains a day. Whenever a healthy person takes, for

example, 2 grains of Armour, their pituitary senses this and drops

production of TSH to tell the thyroid to only make 2-1/2 to 3 grains

more or less than that. So, if you take 2 grains and you are helthy

and your adrenals can handle it, your own thyroid will make just 2-

1/2 to 3 more grains to get your total to 4-1/2 to 5 grains or

whatever the level is that is right for you. You have to exceed the

total thyroid production that is right for your body in order to

overdose. Taking 2 grains does not add on top of what a healthy

thyroid makes because the brain has mechanisms for adjusting things

to make blood levels right.

So, any time a person has difficulties with doses that are far less

than what your daily needs are, it is due to a problem with the

body's ability to use it. When this happens, tissues become

resistant to T3 and T4 and it will stay in the blood. The results

will be abnormally high test results. After all you are only

measuring the thyroid in the blood, not in the tissues.

Tish

Here is some relavant info:

It is an important guidline in that if individuals are placed on and

excessive dose of thyroid hormone, the temperature should become

elevated within two weeks time. However, if the thyroid feedback

mechanisms are working properly it is impossible to make and

individual hyperthyroid untill they are given more thyroid that the

gland produces--about 4-1/2 grains for a small individual and about

5 grains for the usual adult. Their basal temperature should rise up

over 98.2 deg F if they are truely hyperthyroid, and thus have too

much thyroid hormone. The pulse is important as well; a slow pulse

is typical of pure low thyroid condition. With low adrenal function,

the pulse speeds up and the rapid pulse may indicate inadequate

adrenal support. The blood pressure is also an important guid line.

A blood pressure with a systolic below one hundred indicates

inadequate adrenal support......

Below is a quote from Dr. Barry Peatfield from his book " The Great

Thyroid Scandal " Page 87-88:

The disgraceful fact is that all these measurements (except the

last) may not be worth the paper they are written on; or may be so

flawed that treatment based on them is bound to be wrong. So what

goes wrong? And why are doctors not aware that they may be so badly

off the beam? And why do so many have minds so closed?

The reasons blood tests may be so flawed we need now to examine.

First and foremost these are measures only of the levels of thyroid

hormone in the blood. What we need to know is the level of thyroid

in the tissues, and, of course, this the blood test cannot tell us.

The nearest we can go is the Basal Temperature Test, or the Basal

Metabolic Rate. The first we have discussed; the second is now of

historical value. The patient is connected up to an oxygen uptake,

carbon dioxide excretion, measuring device, and the rate of usage

determines the metabolic rate. This is also subject to various

errors. The amount of thyroid hormones being carried by the

bloodstream varies in a highly dynamic way, and may be up at one

point and down the next. The blood test is simply a two-dimensional

snapshot of the situation at that moment. The slowed circulation may

cause haemo-concentration from fluid loss, so that the thyroid

levels are higher than they should be. (A simple way to explain this

is to think of a spoonful of sugar in your cup of tea. If it is only

half a cup of tea but you still put in your teaspoon of sugar, then

although the amount of sugar is the same, the tea will be twice as

sweet.)

But the blood levels depend mostly on what's happening to the

thyroid hormones. If the cellular receptors are sluggish, or

resistant, or there is extra tissue fluid, together with

mucopolysaccharides, the thyroid won't enter the cells as it should;

so that part of the hormone is unused and left behind, giving a

falsely higher reading to the blood test. It is simply building up

unused hormone. This may apply to both T3 and T4. Further

complications exist if the T4 + T3 conversion is not working

properly, with a 5'-diodinase enzyme deficiency. There will be too

much T4, and too little T3. If there is a conversion block, and a T3

receptor uptake deficiency, both T3 and T4 may be normal or even

raised. The patient will be diagnosed as normal or even over-active;

in spite of all other evidence to the contrary. It grieves me to

report that I have intervened several times to prevent patients,

diagnosed as hyperthyroid, having an under-active thyroid removed

when the only evidence was the high T4 level (due to receptor

resistance) and the patient was clinically obviously hypothyroid.

The patients thanked me, but not the consultants.

Adrenal insufficiency adds another dimension for error to the T4 and

T3 tests. Adrenal insufficiency, of which more anon, will adversely

affect thyroid production, conversion, tissue uptake and thyroid

response. It may make a complete nonsense of the blood tests.

The most commonly used test of all is the TSH. I have sadly come

across very few doctors who can accept the fact that a normal, or

low TSH may still occur with a low thyroid. The doctrine is high TSH

= low thyroid. Normal TSH = normal thyroid. But the pituitary may

not be working properly (secondary or tertiary hypothyroidism). It

may not be responding to the Thyrotrophin Release Hormone(TRH)

produced by the hypothalamus, which itself may not be producing

enough TRH for reasons we saw earlier. The pituitary may be damaged

by the low thyroid state anyway, and be sluggish in its TSH output.

[Guest guest]

I am in total agreement with all said, Tish, and with Dr. Barry Peatfield,

but what about this situation with me? I still think that I have adrenal

fatigue that MAY be in slow recovery, but have not tested. Here's MY

scenario:

High systolic BP of anywhere from 140-180 from time to time

High diastolic from time to time, though not often, I don't think (I take it

at work 3 or 4 times a week---anywhere from 70 to 100, not often at 100.

Pulse rate is mostly like clockwork at 72, though, in the last month, since

I raised from 2 grains Armour to 2 1/4 grains over 6 wks ago, it has run as

high as 90, but only for short periods, and not while I'm working hard.

Mostly 72 though.

Daytime temp almost all day now is running 98 to 98.6, clockwork, but at

night it can run as high as almost 99, but not often.

When I took the whole bovine adrenal glandular from Nutri-Meds for a couple

of wks, for the second time, I woke up with an ungodly high pulse rate in

the 150 to 160 range, with a hard heartbeat also, let alone palps that are

here on and off again. This lasted for several hrs, right in synchronicity

with the taking of the adrenal glandular. When that wore off, the high

pulse and all that went away, and I've not taken any adrenal support again.

The other stuff remains on again, off again.

What would you say about these things? I have been thinking adrenal fatigue

has been happening for the last 3 or 4 yrs, yet I don't fit the profile for

the pulse, BP, etc........except the other symptoms. I know my last testing

showed a .8 Free T4, that was rock bottom so called norma, with a Free T3 of

3.6 at midrange, high end being 4.2. What is the mystery here, with me?!

Re: What TSH, FT3, FT4 numbers are you

shooting for?

>

>

> Your numbers are showing that you have a health issue or issues that

> are preventing your tissues from being able to use thyriod hormone

> and it is building up in the blood.

>

> On 1 grain armour, 1/2 a 75 synthroid.

>

> Your dose is too small to be an overdose, except in situations where

> it has become unusable by the body.

>

> Here are some possible causes:

>

> -Low adrenal function or low cortisol

> -Low iron reserves and anemia

> -Low blood sugar from a restrictive diet

> -Low nutrition or nurtritional uptake that is not adequate for your

> increased metabolic rate. This can easily happen in hypothyroidism

> bcause hypothyroidism interferes with the uptake of nutrition.

> -A thyroid dose raise, when your body and adrenals wer not ready or

> a thyroid dose raise that is too large for you.

> -Stress

> -Illness

> -Lack of adequate sleep

> -Too much exercise for your body's tolerance

> -All of the 5 above increase adrenal demands and increase

> nutritional needs

>

> In a problem with low adrenal or nutrional status, thryoid hormone

> cannot be used by cells as they lack the capacity to use it. So, it

> builds up in the blood stream and will often give symptoms of

> overdose, such as a racing heart, the shakes, weakness, fatigue and

> hypoglycemia just to mention a few. Because the heart and muscles

> have high blood flow to them, they are most affected by thyroid

> hormone building up in the blood. Meanwhile the rest of the tissues

> in the body are deprived.

>

> My advice is that you can drop back down on your dose for a little

> while to give your body a chance to recover and then try again

> perhaps at a lower dose rise next time. You can try adrenal support

> if you suspect that is the cause and leave your dose as is. It

> should improve in a month or two and thyroid levels will drop down

> to normal or low again as it will be able to get into tissues. You

> can try to address whatever health issue you think may be the cause

> and stay the course on dose and I would advise getting lots of rest

> and avoiding stress for a while.

>

> The reason that I say that your dose cannot be an overdose, except

> if you can't use it is because the average healthy thyroid makes

> about 4-1/2 to 5 grains a day. Whenever a healthy person takes, for

> example, 2 grains of Armour, their pituitary senses this and drops

> production of TSH to tell the thyroid to only make 2-1/2 to 3 grains

> more or less than that. So, if you take 2 grains and you are helthy

> and your adrenals can handle it, your own thyroid will make just 2-

> 1/2 to 3 more grains to get your total to 4-1/2 to 5 grains or

> whatever the level is that is right for you. You have to exceed the

> total thyroid production that is right for your body in order to

> overdose. Taking 2 grains does not add on top of what a healthy

> thyroid makes because the brain has mechanisms for adjusting things

> to make blood levels right.

>

> So, any time a person has difficulties with doses that are far less

> than what your daily needs are, it is due to a problem with the

> body's ability to use it. When this happens, tissues become

> resistant to T3 and T4 and it will stay in the blood. The results

> will be abnormally high test results. After all you are only

> measuring the thyroid in the blood, not in the tissues.

>

> Tish

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I have 's disease which is Adrenal failure. I was diagnosed

a little over a year ago. My symptoms were nausea, vomiting,

horrible headaches, blurry vision, bloated face and hands,

dizziness, etc. The thing that made drs. start testing was my

sodium level came back at 114 (should be minimum 132). They

admitted me to the hospital for a week and finally came up with the

diagnosis. You should probably have your adrenals tested before you

crash like I did. Also, you need to be wearing a Medicalert

bracelet in case you're in an accident, etc. They need to know to

give you an emergency dose of Steroids.

Tressie

> Yes, if I don't eat xtra salt, I almost totally dehydrate, which

is the

> exact opposite of what " mainstream " doctors are telling us these

days. They

> are all full of bologna about eating a low salt diet because it is

> detrimental to people like us, since we can't seem to hold our

sodium at

> all. The nausea was coming more often for over 2 yrs up until

recently, and

> has tapered off, little by little, but does rear it's ugly head

from time to

> time. There for a long time, I couldn't handle ANY stress at all

(since I

> had handled so much over the yrs), and would get nauseated and

either blank

> out and get very weak or would have absolutely NO reaction to

something that

> should have brought me into the " fight or flight " thing, but

didn't. All

> these things make me believe that I've been in adrenal fatigue,

but what I

> don't understand is the fact that it's supposed to bring low blood

pressure.

> Mine is either in a normal range or too high. My Free T3 and Free

T4 bounce

> around, as I have Hashi's, and it is frustrating. The thyroid

evidently has

> not yet died and won't give up, but is schizoid, lol! I don't

know.

>

>

>

> Re: Re: What TSH, FT3, FT4

numbers are you

> shooting for?

>

>

> >

> > ,

> > I'm curious, do you crave salt and have nausea as a symptom.

This was the

> > first signs I had that tiped me off that I had Adrenal Fatigue.

You can't

> > eat at all because you are so sick to your stomach. I lost 15lbs

before it

> > finally showed up on a test. The symptoms came way before it

showed up on

> > the blood work. I'm pretty skinny so 15lbs was significant for

me.

> >

> > LaCretia