Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 In a message dated 12/21/2004 10:40:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, lacretiamo@... writes: > but, I have asked many doctors if the thyroid dies > due to the anitbodies attacking it constently and all have stated they have > never heard of such a thing how the heck do they think the gland gets fibrous and non-functional then? i mean isn't this the defintion of Hashimoto's - that antibodies attack the gland until it dies? geez. cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 I've had this disease for eons and have been studying for the last 5 yrs and every single opinion that is out there and here, and I do agree with everything else you're saying except for the thing of the thyroid antibodies being irrelevant, once they are known. The opinion given by the article in your other post is one opinion, and there are scads of opinions on this sbjct. Many many sources that I've read have said that the height of the thyroid antibodies directly correlate with the height of destruction going on at that time, and, as a result, the way a person is feeling at the time. The antibodies can increase or decrease, and it can have a LOT to do with how that person feels at that time. I just don't believe that the antibodies should only be done once in a life time, I believe that may be done several times over, in order to determine what sort of mode the thyroid is in, and maybe helping to adjust some environmental things, and also to adjust the thyroid hormone. They also help a knowledgeable doctor determine whether or not a person's TSH needs to be suppressed. Doing the antibody testing over and over, for a long period of time may also help to " chart the course " of destruction. I have been studying this disease as a matter of survival, and I'm just not in agreement with this. There is disagreement among medical authorities on this, and too many times it has been totally dismissed as important because of a lack of understanding for what these antibodies do and can mean. There are many people who have had a 70 count of these antibodies at the time one test was taken, only to find out several yrs later that they have grossly high counts, and THAT is usually when they are feeling their worst. There's got to be a reason for that. Re: I need some help > > I have researched the antibodies and the are really irrelivent to the > disease. They are what give you the diagnoses of Hashi's which is > autoimmune in nature. Once you have the antibodies, you will always have > them. I feel the symptoms are driven by either not receiving enough thyroid > meds or the doctor ignoring the adrenals that may be fatigue in addition to > the Hashi's. Adrenal fatigue is more common with Hashi's since the thyroid > will lean on the adrenals for energy until they are overworked as well. If > you read the history of the disease, you will find that patients today > receive a third of the dose they used to for thyroid problems. I feel this > is why most folks don't feel well. After I finally found a doctor to test > my adrenals, I found that I had to have adrenal support (Cortisol) added to > my meds in order for some of the symptoms to subside. Most have a theory > that if the antibodies are high then the symptoms are worse. Either way > they are going to fluctate and there is nothing that can control that. > Receiving enough meds when the thyroid is under attack is what will rid you > of the symptoms. This is easier said than done because one must find which > thyroid drug works well with their bodies chemistry. Once you have the > adrenals tested and you have found a thyroid drug that works well with you > body, you will feel some relief. Will you be normal ...no, because there is > no cure. Like my doctor said, you WILL have side effects and we will do our > best to control them however, these are things you have to deal with when > you have an incureable disease. Learn what your triggers are, have the > proper tests run, and be educated. Education on this is the most important. > Being able to read your test results and chart progress is important. If > I don't see progress within 3 months with a doctor, I move on. Don't waste > your time with someone who doesn't understand this disease fully or has a > one track mind on one particular treatment program. Treatment has to fit > the patient, not the other way around. Don't be afraid to interview doctors > prior to making an appointment. Hope this helps. > > > Regards, > LaCretia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 You may be right there. It's very controversial subject. I have had folks report that it's high and no symptoms though too. Maybe one day there will be more studies on this but, I have asked many doctors if the thyroid dies due to the anitbodies attacking it constently and all have stated they have never heard of such a thing. Sure some destruction is done but they all have confirmed in the autoimmune form that it will never completly die. This is just opinion but, I also have been researching the entire endocrine system for the past 7-8 years and found very little information on antibodies. Most of what I found was theory... no studies to back it up. I even searched yesterday and found many articles stating that once the antibody is found, they drop that from the tests because it's not needed any longer. It was stated they use to identify Hashi's. Just like other diseases that have antibodies (like diabetes)..they don't retest the antibodies for those either. It's just used to confirm the type of disease. Not to say they don't have some significance. I just haven't found anything to support it other than opinions. I don't think you could treat based off antibodies just like you can't treat based off of TSH. You have to treat based on how you feel. Research has confirmed the tests aren't always accurate. LaCretia >I've had this disease for eons and have been studying for the last 5 yrs >and >every single opinion that is out there and here, and I do agree with >everything else you're saying except for the thing of the thyroid >antibodies >being irrelevant, once they are known. The opinion given by the article in >your other post is one opinion, and there are scads of opinions on this >sbjct. Many many sources that I've read have said that the height of the >thyroid antibodies directly correlate with the height of destruction going >on at that time, and, as a result, the way a person is feeling at the time. >The antibodies can increase or decrease, and it can have a LOT to do with >how that person feels at that time. I just don't believe that the >antibodies should only be done once in a life time, I believe that may be >done several times over, in order to determine what sort of mode the >thyroid >is in, and maybe helping to adjust some environmental things, and also to >adjust the thyroid hormone. They also help a knowledgeable doctor >determine >whether or not a person's TSH needs to be suppressed. Doing the antibody >testing over and over, for a long period of time may also help to " chart >the >course " of destruction. I have been studying this disease as a matter of >survival, and I'm just not in agreement with this. There is disagreement >among medical authorities on this, and too many times it has been totally >dismissed as important because of a lack of understanding for what these >antibodies do and can mean. There are many people who have had a 70 count >of these antibodies at the time one test was taken, only to find out >several >yrs later that they have grossly high counts, and THAT is usually when they >are feeling their worst. There's got to be a reason for that. > > > > Re: I need some help > > > > > > I have researched the antibodies and the are really irrelivent to the > > disease. They are what give you the diagnoses of Hashi's which is > > autoimmune in nature. Once you have the antibodies, you will always >have > > them. I feel the symptoms are driven by either not receiving enough >thyroid > > meds or the doctor ignoring the adrenals that may be fatigue in addition >to > > the Hashi's. Adrenal fatigue is more common with Hashi's since the >thyroid > > will lean on the adrenals for energy until they are overworked as well. >If > > you read the history of the disease, you will find that patients today > > receive a third of the dose they used to for thyroid problems. I feel >this > > is why most folks don't feel well. After I finally found a doctor to >test > > my adrenals, I found that I had to have adrenal support (Cortisol) added >to > > my meds in order for some of the symptoms to subside. Most have a >theory > > that if the antibodies are high then the symptoms are worse. Either way > > they are going to fluctate and there is nothing that can control that. > > Receiving enough meds when the thyroid is under attack is what will rid >you > > of the symptoms. This is easier said than done because one must find >which > > thyroid drug works well with their bodies chemistry. Once you have the > > adrenals tested and you have found a thyroid drug that works well with >you > > body, you will feel some relief. Will you be normal ...no, because >there >is > > no cure. Like my doctor said, you WILL have side effects and we will do >our > > best to control them however, these are things you have to deal with >when > > you have an incureable disease. Learn what your triggers are, have the > > proper tests run, and be educated. Education on this is the most >important. > > Being able to read your test results and chart progress is important. >If > > I don't see progress within 3 months with a doctor, I move on. Don't >waste > > your time with someone who doesn't understand this disease fully or has >a > > one track mind on one particular treatment program. Treatment has to >fit > > the patient, not the other way around. Don't be afraid to interview >doctors > > prior to making an appointment. Hope this helps. > > > > > > Regards, > > LaCretia > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 In a message dated 12/22/2004 9:15:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, martian.303@... writes: > My levels of anti-bodies were normal when they were tested - they were > present though do you know what the number was. remember that yours could have been 28....and the range for diagnosis starts at 30...but the way docs do it, they woulda said " NORMAL " ...no hashi's. Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 , I have only had my anti-bodies checked once. I don't recall the result, other than the doctor and results said they were within normal range, and therefore, I did not have Hash's. (and that would be the end of checking them) Now, I'm thinking - when I had those nodules that burst, had they tested my anti-bodies, I bet they were through the roof!! I'm going to ask my doctor to check them again the next time she does the thyroid check. Or - perhaps at my next apt. Altho - she'll want to check my tsh if she does... guess it won't hurt, as long as she's testing the free's again also. She said she wasn't going to test them again for 6 months. I need to write all of this stuff down!! Cris Re: I need some help > > I have researched the antibodies and the are really irrelivent to the > disease. They are what give you the diagnoses of Hashi's which is > autoimmune in nature. Once you have the antibodies, you will always have > them. I feel the symptoms are driven by either not receiving enough thyroid > meds or the doctor ignoring the adrenals that may be fatigue in addition to > the Hashi's. Adrenal fatigue is more common with Hashi's since the thyroid > will lean on the adrenals for energy until they are overworked as well. If > you read the history of the disease, you will find that patients today > receive a third of the dose they used to for thyroid problems. I feel this > is why most folks don't feel well. After I finally found a doctor to test > my adrenals, I found that I had to have adrenal support (Cortisol) added to > my meds in order for some of the symptoms to subside. Most have a theory > that if the antibodies are high then the symptoms are worse. Either way > they are going to fluctate and there is nothing that can control that. > Receiving enough meds when the thyroid is under attack is what will rid you > of the symptoms. This is easier said than done because one must find which > thyroid drug works well with their bodies chemistry. Once you have the > adrenals tested and you have found a thyroid drug that works well with you > body, you will feel some relief. Will you be normal ...no, because there is > no cure. Like my doctor said, you WILL have side effects and we will do our > best to control them however, these are things you have to deal with when > you have an incureable disease. Learn what your triggers are, have the > proper tests run, and be educated. Education on this is the most important. > Being able to read your test results and chart progress is important. If > I don't see progress within 3 months with a doctor, I move on. Don't waste > your time with someone who doesn't understand this disease fully or has a > one track mind on one particular treatment program. Treatment has to fit > the patient, not the other way around. Don't be afraid to interview doctors > prior to making an appointment. Hope this helps. > > > Regards, > LaCretia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 in your research, have you found information then about anti-bodies, stating that regardless of level, if they are present, you have hashi's? this, I think, is my problem. My levels of anti-bodies were normal when they were tested - they were present though! and I'm convinced that I have hashi's. Dr. says absolutely not, because of this test. Cris Re: I need some help > > > > > > I have researched the antibodies and the are really irrelivent to the > > disease. They are what give you the diagnoses of Hashi's which is > > autoimmune in nature. Once you have the antibodies, you will always >have > > them. I feel the symptoms are driven by either not receiving enough >thyroid > > meds or the doctor ignoring the adrenals that may be fatigue in addition >to > > the Hashi's. Adrenal fatigue is more common with Hashi's since the >thyroid > > will lean on the adrenals for energy until they are overworked as well. >If > > you read the history of the disease, you will find that patients today > > receive a third of the dose they used to for thyroid problems. I feel >this > > is why most folks don't feel well. After I finally found a doctor to >test > > my adrenals, I found that I had to have adrenal support (Cortisol) added >to > > my meds in order for some of the symptoms to subside. Most have a >theory > > that if the antibodies are high then the symptoms are worse. Either way > > they are going to fluctate and there is nothing that can control that. > > Receiving enough meds when the thyroid is under attack is what will rid >you > > of the symptoms. This is easier said than done because one must find >which > > thyroid drug works well with their bodies chemistry. Once you have the > > adrenals tested and you have found a thyroid drug that works well with >you > > body, you will feel some relief. Will you be normal ...no, because >there >is > > no cure. Like my doctor said, you WILL have side effects and we will do >our > > best to control them however, these are things you have to deal with >when > > you have an incureable disease. Learn what your triggers are, have the > > proper tests run, and be educated. Education on this is the most >important. > > Being able to read your test results and chart progress is important. >If > > I don't see progress within 3 months with a doctor, I move on. Don't >waste > > your time with someone who doesn't understand this disease fully or has >a > > one track mind on one particular treatment program. Treatment has to >fit > > the patient, not the other way around. Don't be afraid to interview >doctors > > prior to making an appointment. Hope this helps. > > > > > > Regards, > > LaCretia > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 maybe someone like me would need them - I haven't had any sort of nodules or major flare ups like the nodules, since I started treatment (which, was synthroid) -and my antibody levels are fairly low, as I recall. In order to convince my dr. that I have hashi's, she has to have a test level above the < mark.... but.... on the armour, even tho it is not enough, I think it is doing me enough good to keep those anti-bodies low. Make sense? Cris Re: I need some help In a message dated 12/21/2004 10:12:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, marin@... writes: > Many many sources that I've read have said that the height of the > thyroid antibodies directly correlate with the height of destruction going > on at that time, and, as a result, the way a person is feeling at the time. > but if it's later in the disease, and the destruction is very extensive, antibodies would be lower. a person then...with lower antibodies (maybe in the hundreds instead of the thousands) could have more extensive...and non-relenting hypo symptoms/damage than someone who is having a flareup with high antibodies in the middle of the disease who goes thru a bad spell of symptoms while the antibodies are attacking. So I think I may tend to agree that it's not necessary to retest antibodies. Once you know you have Hashi's, you know you have to work with the autoimmune part of the disease and make sure your thyroid hormone levels stay optimal. Testing for antibodies again on a routine basis would serve no purpose that I can see. Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 In a message dated 12/28/2004 11:38:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, marin@... writes: > It's all take the pill and it'll all go away just like they do for anything...take a pill, please...and preferably an anti-depressant since you're a woman and must just be depressed and your symptoms are in your head. i do not like most doctors. cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Absolutely, this, even WE all know. Evidently, they don't understand the disease, which, of course, is why we're all here on these groups, seeking help. It's the very definition of Hashimoto's and Grave's, good gosh!! Re: I need some help > > In a message dated 12/21/2004 10:40:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, > lacretiamo@... writes: > > > but, I have asked many doctors if the thyroid dies > > due to the anitbodies attacking it constently and all have stated they have > > never heard of such a thing > > how the heck do they think the gland gets fibrous and non-functional then? i > mean isn't this the defintion of Hashimoto's - that antibodies attack the > gland until it dies? geez. > cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Most doctors are not paying attention to what actually happens to the hashi's gland, as they don't care to investigate it. It's not on their list of priorities. It's all take the pill and it'll all go away. They don't understand it at all, except for a rare handful who take a special interest in it all. I do not trust the word of my local doctors, as I know that they don't have the knowledge even that we do on these thyroid sites. Re: I need some help > > Well that's definitely evidence! Too bad they can't see this until after > death > > LaCretia > > > >In a message dated 12/21/2004 12:49:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >lacretiamo@... writes: > > > > > I haven't found > > > anything that says the antibodies will eventually kill it though > > > >I think that autopsies of folks with Hashimoto's is one of the best > >indicators of what happens to the thyroid. For example..here is my > >mother's: > >Multiple nodules are formed by fibrous bands separating the gland into > >colloid-filled folllicles with focal degeneration and chronic inflammation. > > There > >is one area of dense fibrous tissue and follicular epithelial cells with > >hyperchromatic and pleomorphic nuclei. > >Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Go to www.healthcheckusa.com and order your own ($60), if you can't get her to redo them. They are what destroys the Hashi's gland, and the #s of these can change rapidly, from many causes. Keeping the TSH suppressed, IMO, is one of the best ways to help stop this. If the gland isn't being stimulated to make hormone, then the antibodies have a tendency to lessen their force. After all, it is the thyroid hormone substances, either pre-, post-, or inbetween the formation of it, that they are attacking. This is ONE of the ways to try to stop them. Of course, I think there are myriads of causes for their development, in the first place, genetics (broken chromosomes being one), environment, things in our foods, and the list goes on and on. We don't know everything about these things yet, but I believe that we will. Re: I need some help > > , > I have only had my anti-bodies checked once. I don't recall the result, other than the doctor and results said they were within normal range, and therefore, I did not have Hash's. (and that would be the end of checking them) Now, I'm thinking - when I had those nodules that burst, had they tested my anti-bodies, I bet they were through the roof!! I'm going to ask my doctor to check them again the next time she does the thyroid check. Or - perhaps at my next apt. Altho - she'll want to check my tsh if she does... guess it won't hurt, as long as she's testing the free's again also. She said she wasn't going to test them again for 6 months. I need to write all of this stuff down!! > Cris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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