generic armour

December 13, 2004

About a week ago I ran out of the genuine armour and started using the one

supplied by myrx which is by Qualitest Laboratories. By Friday my biceps

started aching, on Saturday all the muscles at the top of legs were aching and

today I still have all that plus my ankles hurt. I just don't think it's doing

the job.

I think I need to raise the dose to see if that makes a difference, perhaps it's

not as potent as it is supposed to be. I am currently on 3 grains, do you

think I could raise to 3 and a half? If I only raise by a quarter and it isn't

as strong as the genuine armour, I could put myself back where I was months ago.

I don't like this at all, feeling as though I am losing ground.

Lynda (in the UK)

December 13, 2004

You know, I have been wondering this myself. Much as I am doing fine on the

generic, I was in the process of upping my dosage still when I changed to

it, and then went up more. It may be that we need more of this medicine.

Artistic Grooming

Hurricane, West Virginia

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December 13, 2004

I am amazed by this--and you are not the first who has reported this

with generic. It implies that the generic brands are not as strong,

and makes me wonder WHY. We are told that all FDA-approved brands

are regulated. If so, one grain of " generic " SHOULD contain the same

amount of T4 and T3 as one grain of Armour or Naturethroid. But

reports like yours and others are not confirming that.

If I was in your shoes and feeling that way, I'd definitely raise

that 1/2 grain. Let us know where you finally end up, please. We

need to keep track of this.

Janie

> About a week ago I ran out of the genuine armour and started using

the one supplied by myrx which is by Qualitest Laboratories. By

Friday my biceps started aching, on Saturday all the muscles at the

top of legs were aching and today I still have all that plus my

ankles hurt. I just don't think it's doing the job.

> I think I need to raise the dose to see if that makes a

difference, perhaps it's not as potent as it is supposed to be. I

am currently on 3 grains, do you think I could raise to 3 and a

half? If I only raise by a quarter and it isn't as strong as the

genuine armour, I could put myself back where I was months ago. I

don't like this at all, feeling as though I am losing ground.

> Lynda (in the UK)

>

December 13, 2004

I just upped mine 1/2 grain also. Not a problem, but do feel a little

better. I'm now at 4 1/2 grains. I was on 3 1/2 grains of Armour thyroid,

till the switch to generic Time Caps armour.

SandyE~Houston

Original Message:

-----------------

From: loboshe usns@...

Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 16:05:28 -0000

To: NaturalThyroidHormones

Subject: Re: generic armour

<tt>

I am amazed by this--and you are not the first who has reported this

with generic. It implies that the generic brands are not as strong,

and makes me wonder WHY. We are told that all FDA-approved brands

are regulated. If so, one grain of " generic " SHOULD contain the same

amount of T4 and T3 as one grain of Armour or Naturethroid. But

reports like yours and others are not confirming that.

If I was in your shoes and feeling that way, I'd definitely raise

that 1/2 grain. Let us know where you finally end up, please. We

need to keep track of this.

Janie

> About a week ago I ran out of the genuine armour and started using

the one supplied by myrx which is by Qualitest Laboratories. By

Friday my biceps started aching, on Saturday all the muscles at the

top of legs were aching and today I still have all that plus my

ankles hurt. I just don't think it's doing the job.

> I think I need to raise the dose to see if that makes a

difference, perhaps it's not as potent as it is supposed to be. I

am currently on 3 grains, do you think I could raise to 3 and a

half? If I only raise by a quarter and it isn't as strong as the

genuine armour, I could put myself back where I was months ago. I

don't like this at all, feeling as though I am losing ground.

> Lynda (in the UK)

>

>

December 13, 2004

loboshe wrote:

>I am amazed by this--and you are not the first who has reported this

>with generic. It implies that the generic brands are not as strong,

>and makes me wonder WHY. We are told that all FDA-approved brands

>are regulated. If so, one grain of " generic " SHOULD contain the same

>amount of T4 and T3 as one grain of Armour or Naturethroid. But

>reports like yours and others are not confirming that.

>

Maybe it contains the same T3 and T4 but not the same amounts of the

hormones in Armour that are not assayed - T2 T1 etc

--

Alison

http://www.alisonashwell.com

new work uploaded

http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell

December 13, 2004

On the subject of generics.. When I first had my hysterectomy at 27 years

old, they knew I needed HRT. I was given a script for Premarin 2.5 MG and

told I could fill it generic. Well I tried the generic.. it was like taking

NOTHING! The next time I filled it with name brand Premarin at three times

the price, it worked as my own old hormones did. Since then I have been

leery of Generics. Eventually (after about 15 years!!!) they pulled the

generic Premarin off the market as it didn;t work for ANYONE. But it was

approved as an " exact generic " of Premarin. I don't know who does this

guaranteeing but they need to redo their methods as MANY generics I don't

feel are the same as the name brands. I am playing with my own dosages

again... When I get some Nature throid in I will let you know if I can

actually go down on it! That would be a nice switch!

Artistic Grooming

Hurricane, West Virginia

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December 13, 2004

So 3 1/2 grains of generic did not give you the same good results as

3 1/2 grains of Armour?

And give me a time frame--how long were you on 3 1/2 grains Armour

and when was the last time you were you on it; how long were you on

3 1/2 grains generic before you noticed you weren't feeling as good,

and how long have you been on 4 1/2 grains generic?

I used to mention in my NATURAL THYROID 101 that some folks were

noticing they had to take more--I then took that off when some

reported they felt fine--am now thinking of putting it back on.

Janie

:

> I just upped mine 1/2 grain also. Not a problem, but do feel a

little

> better. I'm now at 4 1/2 grains. I was on 3 1/2 grains of Armour

thyroid,

> till the switch to generic Time Caps armour.

>

> SandyE~Houston

>

December 13, 2004

I started on 3 1/2 grains when my brother was in the hospital the first

week of Oct 6, noticed that I was achy feeling, and realized that with all

the stress, it was actually time for me to up. I'll have to look back at

when I took the 9 1/2 grains of armour (not used to buying 3 grain tablets)

but I know I posted it here just a few weeks ago.

I have been noticing the last week or two that I wasn't feeling as well,

temperment was not as good, aches here and there......just not feeling as

well as I was on the 3 1/2 grains of armour. I upped it to 4 1/2 today.

So far, I do feel better, not achy, and I'm not sick, nor am I feeling

hyper.

This past week I've noticed that I'm not feeling as well in the afternoons

and wanted to nap again (here at the office) lol

SandyE~Houston

Original Message:

-----------------

From: loboshe usns@...

Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 16:36:51 -0000

To: NaturalThyroidHormones

Subject: Re: generic armour

<tt>

So 3 1/2 grains of generic did not give you the same good results as

3 1/2 grains of Armour?

And give me a time frame--how long were you on 3 1/2 grains Armour

and when was the last time you were you on it; how long were you on

3 1/2 grains generic before you noticed you weren't feeling as good,

and how long have you been on 4 1/2 grains generic?

I used to mention in my NATURAL THYROID 101 that some folks were

noticing they had to take more--I then took that off when some

reported they felt fine--am now thinking of putting it back on.

Janie

:

> I just upped mine 1/2 grain also. Not a problem, but do feel a

little

> better. I'm now at 4 1/2 grains. I was on 3 1/2 grains of Armour

thyroid,

> till the switch to generic Time Caps armour.

>

> SandyE~Houston

>

</tt>

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December 13, 2004

> Maybe it contains the same T3 and T4 but not the same amounts of

the hormones in Armour that are not assayed - T2 T1 etc

I'm not sure that would work. If it had the same amount of T4 and T3

as in Armour, it would also have the same amounts of the others

since it's a mixed bag. It's strictly guided by the US Pharmacopia,

as well. All makers of natural thyroid get their thyroid powder from

the same place, and thus have the same amount of T's in each

measured amount because of the strict guidelines of the US Pharm.

It's odd. Give me another guess......I'd love to figure this

out...the only thing I can figure out is that they are putting LESS

of the total thyroid powder in each tablet??

Janie

December 13, 2004

Are you positive they all get it from the same source? Different processing

may also be in this mix... Maybe one's processing is destroying some of the

hormones in the powders they are using?

Artistic Grooming

Hurricane, West Virginia

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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.808 / Virus Database: 550 - Release Date: 12/8/2004

December 13, 2004

Sandy

did you start to feel achey when you switched to the generic? How long were

you on 3 1/2 grains of genuine armour and did you feel stabilized on that?

Lynda (in the UK)

RE: Re: generic armour

I just upped mine 1/2 grain also. Not a problem, but do feel a little

better. I'm now at 4 1/2 grains. I was on 3 1/2 grains of Armour thyroid,

till the switch to generic Time Caps armour.

SandyE~Houston

December 13, 2004

Yes, I do know they get it from the same source--the US pharmacopia.

What's different is what each pharmaceutical does with the powder as

far as putting it in capsules or making a tablet....and the fillers.

Isn't Naturethroid a capsule? Janie

> Are you positive they all get it from the same source? Different

processing

> may also be in this mix... Maybe one's processing is destroying

some of the

> hormones in the powders they are using?

>

> Artistic Grooming

> Hurricane, West Virginia

>

> ---

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> Version: 6.0.808 / Virus Database: 550 - Release Date: 12/8/2004

December 13, 2004

, not so much the achy, but the fingers going numb again, and

constipation (always a hypo sign for me). I never just look at one symptom

because I usually get several once I go hypo. I notice that the sense of

'well being' isn't there like it was when I was on Armour Thyroid also.

It's been weird, but I know that sometimes Generic doesn't work as well as

the name brand, at least not for me. I'll look back to the day I took too

much Armour and post it in just a minute, cuz that was my first dose on

generic, but I kept at 3 1/2 grains at that point.

SandyE~Houston

Original Message:

-----------------

From: Lynda lyn.worth@...

Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:10:15 -0000

To: NaturalThyroidHormones

Subject: Re: Re: generic armour

<tt>

Sandy

did you start to feel achey when you switched to the generic? How long

were you on 3 1/2 grains of genuine armour and did you feel stabilized on

that?

Lynda (in the UK)

RE: Re: generic armour

I just upped mine 1/2 grain also. Not a problem, but do feel a little

better. I'm now at 4 1/2 grains. I was on 3 1/2 grains of Armour

thyroid,

till the switch to generic Time Caps armour.

SandyE~Houston

December 13, 2004

Janie,

reading from the label of the Qualitest thyroid tabs - Thyroid Tablets USP, 2

grain tabs, each contains T4 76mcg, T3 18mcg

So, if the contents are as stated they SHOULD be doing the same job as the

genuine armour but they're not.

When I ordered from myrx I ordered 2 grain and 1 grain. The 2 grain are

Qualitest, the 1 grain from Time-Cap Labs. So far I've only used the Qualitest

ones, I was keeping the 1 grain Time-Cap ones for cutting into smaller

increments.

Tomorrow I am going to stay with the Qualitest ones but increase to 3 1/2

grains.

If that doesn't make a difference I am going to switch to the Time-Cap ones.

I'll let you know what happens

Lynda (in the UK)

Re: generic armour

Yes, I do know they get it from the same source--the US pharmacopia.

What's different is what each pharmaceutical does with the powder as

far as putting it in capsules or making a tablet....and the fillers.

Isn't Naturethroid a capsule? Janie

December 13, 2004

loboshe wrote:

>.

>It's odd. Give me another guess......I'd love to figure this

>out...the only thing I can figure out is that they are putting LESS

>of the total thyroid powder in each tablet??

>

maybe the different fillers bind to the hormones or otherwise make it

less active

--

Alison

http://www.alisonashwell.com

new work uploaded

http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell

December 13, 2004

Okay, on Tuesday, Nov 23, I took the 9 1/2 grains of armour by mistake.

That was my very first dose on generic armour (time cap labs). I normally

took 3 1 grain pills and a half of a 1 grain. Naturally that day I didn't

feel so swift, but I've not felt as good on the generic as I did on the

Armour name brand. Since I over did it on the generic that first day, I've

been just biding my time, thinking it had something to do with the 9 1/2

grains. I'm not so sure that's a valid excuse for this not making me feel

as good as the name brand incident which will be 3 weeks ago tomorrow.

SandyE~Houston

Original Message:

-----------------

From: starz@... starz@...

Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:25:42 -0500

To: NaturalThyroidHormones

Subject: Re: Re: generic armour

<tt>

, not so much the achy, but the fingers going numb again, and

constipation (always a hypo sign for me). I never just look at one

symptom

because I usually get several once I go hypo. I notice that the sense of

'well being' isn't there like it was when I was on Armour Thyroid also.

It's been weird, but I know that sometimes Generic doesn't work as well

as

the name brand, at least not for me. I'll look back to the day I took

too

much Armour and post it in just a minute, cuz that was my first dose on

generic, but I kept at 3 1/2 grains at that point.

SandyE~Houston

Original Message:

-----------------

From: Lynda lyn.worth@...

Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:10:15 -0000

To: NaturalThyroidHormones

Subject: Re: Re: generic armour

<tt>

Sandy

did you start to feel achey when you switched to the generic? How long

were you on 3 1/2 grains of genuine armour and did you feel stabilized

on

that?

Lynda (in the UK)

RE: Re: generic armour

I just upped mine 1/2 grain also. Not a problem, but do feel a

little

better. I'm now at 4 1/2 grains. I was on 3 1/2 grains of Armour

thyroid,

till the switch to generic Time Caps armour.

SandyE~Houston

December 13, 2004

I just received my generic Armour from them today and it came from

Thailand. I ordered it on 12/3. 10 days to get here...not too

bad.

-Anne

> ,

> thanks for that, unfortunately they are not actually in the UK but

make it look as though they are by using a co.uk web address

> I can't remember where they are, I think Singapore or Hong Kong

> Anyway, they might be a good fall-back if myrxforless are out of

stock

> Lynda (in the UK)

> Re: generic armour

>

> http://www.edrugnet.co.uk/showprice.asp?name=thyroid & bysearch=ok

>

> Here ya go!

> *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

> Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/

>

December 13, 2004

loboshe wrote:

>Yes, I do know they get it from the same source--the US pharmacopia.

>

A pharmacopaeia or national formulary isn't a source but a standards

stetting body which agrees definition and legal descriptions of drugs,

suitable methods of assay and allowable deviations from stated dose

/allowable containimation in a particualr drug or ingredient.

In fact the US pharmacopaeia does just that:

thttp://www.usp.org/

-it does not supply the raw ingredients but supplys refernece standards

for assay to check against the medication produced.-ie the standard for

dessicated thyroid will contain a known quantity of t3 and t4 -maybe

even non animal sourced but something that usuing a specific assay

method will allow manufacturers to calibrate equipment and adjust the

rations in their drugs to continue to maintain the correct doesage.. It

will also specify the kind of raw ingredients - in Armour it will

specify that the pigs are certified safe for human consumption and of

healthy stock, types of abatoir allowed to harvest the thyroids etc etc.

How the raw materials are stored, limits of storage, etc etc

*from the USP website :Standards.* Establishing standards is a core USP

activity. Currently, USP provides standards for more than 4,000

prescription and non-prescription drugs, dietary supplements, veterinary

drugs and health care products. These standards are published in the

/United States Pharmacopeia and National Formulary (USP–NF)/, which are

officially recognized in the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21

U.S.C. § 321 et seq.). USP also produces Reference Standards, which are

an integral part of USP's standards program. In addition, USP offers a

Pharmacopeial Education program that provides continuing educational

courses for professionals working in the pharmaceutical industry—helping

those who use the /USP–NF/ better understand pharmacopeial processes,

standards, tests and methods.

USP works closely with the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the

pharmaceutical industry, and the health professions, to establish

authoritative drug standards. These standards are enforceable by the FDA

and the governments of other countries, and are recognized worldwide as

the hallmark of quality. More than 3,800 standards monographs are

published in the /U.S. Pharmacopeia (USP)/ and the /National Formulary

(NF)/, the official drug standards compendia. USP also provides about

1,300 premier chemical Reference Standards to carry out the tests

specified in /USP–NF/.

--

Alison

http://www.alisonashwell.com

new work uploaded

http://www.artwanted/alisonashwell

December 13, 2004

> reading from the label of the Qualitest thyroid tabs - Thyroid

Tablets USP, 2 grain tabs, each contains T4 76mcg, T3 18mcg

> So, if the contents are as stated they SHOULD be doing the same

job as the genuine armour but they're not.

HMM. Then perhaps what my NP told me today fits--she feels there is

something about the fillers that makes the generics less effective.

Because you are right--the T4 and T3 is exactly what the name brand

would have.......

Janie, scratching her chinny chin chin

December 13, 2004

> maybe the different fillers bind to the hormones or otherwise make

it less active

BINGO. What my NP theorizes, as well..... Janie

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