Guest guest Posted September 9, 2001 Report Share Posted September 9, 2001 > > But what is it with gay/lesbian people and 12-stepping? There does indeed seem to be a > strong streak of 12-step stuph in the gay community. I've heard tell it's due to there > being a lot of alcohol abuse in the gay community. Not only are gay bars places to meet > people, there are a lot of unhappy gay people who are suffering rejection from their > families and alienation from being in a stigmatized group and are drinking. > ---------------- Hi -- Well, but these are 2 different topics. Yes, there are psychosocial reasons why alcohol and other substances might be abused more in the gay/bi community than in ones who suffer less discrimination and rejection. BUT, this does not explain the attraction to Steppism. I personally would think that gay subtance abusers would be more likely to gravitate to non-step, self-empowering type counseling and support groups -- especially militant dyke types -- I truly find it astonishing that lesbians could possibly get into Bill -n- Bob's crap. > > My partner is horribly homophobic. He dumps such homophobic abuse on me. I want to get > my space and my life back and just be myself without getting all this nasty language. > ----------------- I mean no disrespect, but I can't understand how you can love and stay with a man who insults and abuses you this way. I had a boyfriend in college (we lived together) who I made plenty of excuses for when he was just " ordinary " obnoxious -- but when he hurled anti-Semitic epithets to me during an argument that was the end for me. I told him goodbye and good luck shortly threafter. I don't care that it was " just in the heat of argument " blah blah -- I will not be involved with anyone who says things like " I can't expect any better from you, you're just like the rest of your tribe " etc. And frankly I wouldn't stay with someone who expressed racist or homophobic sentiments either, even though I'm not black or gay. > We know that Indians have a good bit of alcoholism and drug > problems, and I wonder about Black people, too. > ------------------ Yes, there is a documented higher alcohol abuse/dependence rate among black people (further correlated to lower income) -- but interestingly, blacks have always been underrepresented in AA. Many people other than myself have speculated that the " powerless " and " turn it over " ideology is simply a giant turnoff to people who are trying to reject being made to feel " powerless " and ordered to " turn it over " by whites via centuries of societal racism. Also, blacks have traditionally had a high rate of involvement in church and emotional-style religion -- probably the pathetic doorknob-worshipping spirituality of AA holds no attraction by comparison. ~Rita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2001 Report Share Posted September 9, 2001 Rita says, " I personally would think that gay subtance abusers would be more likely to gravitate to non-step, self-empowering type counseling and support groups -- especially militant dyke types -- I truly find it astonishing that lesbians could possibly get into Bill -n- Bob's crap. " You'd think so, but, by golly, gay and lesbian people just ate it up! You could get a button to wear: " Clean And Sober Dyke " , and there were so many busy being clean and sober dykes and gay guys. And I'd see them accepting powerlessness, as though their lives were compartmentalized. On the one hand, become empowered as a gay person. OTOH, be a powerless alcoholic. Anybody have any hypotheses as to why this might be? Gay people aren't the only ones. I noticed that there were a number of people who held positions of power (lawyer, dean at Penn State, a number of Catholic priests, an Episcopal Right Reverend Canon, etc.) or aspired to power and empowerment, yet cheerfully disempowered and abased themselves in the 12-step venue. (Rita asks, " I mean no disrespect, but I can't understand how you can love and stay with a man who insults and abuses you this way. " No disrespect perceived. :-) It's a good and legitimate question, and one with a very complex answer. I am seeing a woman at the Women's Resource Center, trying to sort out what the hell is going on here with me, and more importantly, what am I going to actually *do* about it. Did you see my dog post about Susie the Friendly Pit Bull and the incident last night involving the young woman who was abused, and how I was able to help the young woman and her baby? This is so odd, so damned odd! I had no trouble being there to help her. And her abusive boyfriend didn't faze me a bit. When he yelled, " F***ing Bitch, see what you've done " at me, as the battered women's advocates drove away with the young woman and baby, taking them to the women's shelter, I just answered, " Nyeh! I've been insulted by experts! " , indicating to him that I considered him no expert at all. He backed down. Somebody else's problem? No problem. My problem? I'm stymied. And I'm very conscious, very very conscious of the similarity between me last night and all these damn " alcoholism counselors " and " drug counselors " who are so eager to help others, but if you look closely, you'll see that they don't really have their shit together at all. This is scary! It would be so easy for me to go and get a Social Worker's degree, so awfully easy, and then hang out a shingle and " help people " . There's a *lot* of that going around these days. I've bumped into just too many helping professionals who can't clean up their own act. Enough so that I am suspicious of helpers and social workers and such. Not that I believe *all* helping professionals are screwed up, but I've met enough that I no longer automatically trust someone who claims to be able to help.) Cheers, nz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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