Hey, Ray!

[Guest guest]

actually, I cannot believe how much more able you sound in these

posts than you did when first you posted here. I am just delighted

for you, and I hope that you feel it in the corners of your soul.

ABLE is GOOD, and so is strong, which I think you have found in the

last few weeks, if not before.

Your psychologist is to be congratulated for whatever went on there,

and so are your ortho and surgeon. But most of all, you are. Your

surgeon will be there for you tomorrow, if he or she is a decent

human being, and will be much impressed by the changes you've made.

That's such good stuff to hear. I would not have believed that one

person could have come to such a different perspective. Or maybe you

were there all along, and voicing the hardest problems to deal with.

Nothing wrong with that, if such is the case. The Internet is a good

place to do such things, I think, as long as you don't let yourself

get bit by the few predatory nasties who thrive on others' pain.

I don't know of such evil folks here, and we will be here for you as

you continue, and send you good thoughts when you need them. I think

those thoughts are powerful stuff, in ways I don't understand, and I

hope they will be a source of strength for you.

Keep looking forward and finding your own good future, which is there

for you to claim! You're a young guy, and whatever is behind you is

just that... Go on to joy and happiness! (And remember that notion

when you have temporary adversaries to negotiate, of whatever sort!

Don't ask me how I know.)

Best,

Cammie

[Guest guest]

Thank you for those very, very kind words Cammie

I have kept a copy of this note and will print it, when the rainy

days come (if they do). Thanks again

I'm still seeing my psychologist, every other week (one out of

two..??). I think I've become his pet project, sort of. He said,

more or less, the same things you did. He volounteered himself to

do a house call for when I'll be down (the first week), just to

check on me. His ex-wife is a nurse and he asked her to take care

of me for the first few days.

The funny thing is, since I've decided to go ahead with the surgery,

all the obstacles have either been removed or lowered down to a

level at which I can reach. Home nurse for a few days, extra weeks

of recovery at home (paid week my boss autorized 5 seconds after I

asked her!), work from home if necessary, the surgeon willingly

making it easy on me with being " unwired " and limits the number of

bands, etc. All of this spell relief for my soul

I'd just like to appologize for sounding so negative at first. I

think (no, I'm sure!) I panicked. This has been an ongoing struggle

all my life so far. I can take stress to a certain level and call

the tough decisions rationnaly, and not even show a sign, but when

that level is reached, I loose all my senses. But I'm sure that

this surgery will, in a way, help me on more fronts that... my front

teeth !

Ray

[Guest guest]

You are welcome, Ray, and I am glad for any help I've been able to

lend you. I can tell you that there have been lots of folks here who

helped restore my sanity, back when I was sooo frightened. So maybe I

am passing a bit of it on. ;~)

I do think most folks get frightened when they hear of the surgery. I

was fortunate in that I knew a few folks who had already been through

it, but it did scare me, in part just because it had never occurred

to me that I would have to do it.

But you know, Ray, I think, (If I may be didactic here -- that's

boring, I know) you have done a lot of your changes yourself. I am so

glad that you have a psychologist who can work with you and is

sympathetic. That's great. But I'd bet he'd be the first to tell you

that you're the one who's had to make the changes. And I am so glad

that you feel in charge of your life again. I think that is one true

key to happiness.

Which I wish for you.

Cammie

> Thank you for those very, very kind words Cammie

>

> I have kept a copy of this note and will print it, when the rainy

> days come (if they do). Thanks again

>

> I'm still seeing my psychologist, every other week (one out of

> two..??). I think I've become his pet project, sort of. He said,

> more or less, the same things you did. He volounteered himself to

> do a house call for when I'll be down (the first week), just to

> check on me. His ex-wife is a nurse and he asked her to take care

> of me for the first few days.

>

> The funny thing is, since I've decided to go ahead with the

surgery,

> all the obstacles have either been removed or lowered down to a

> level at which I can reach. Home nurse for a few days, extra weeks

> of recovery at home (paid week my boss autorized 5 seconds after I

> asked her!), work from home if necessary, the surgeon willingly

> making it easy on me with being " unwired " and limits the number of

> bands, etc. All of this spell relief for my soul

>

> I'd just like to appologize for sounding so negative at first. I

> think (no, I'm sure!) I panicked. This has been an ongoing

struggle

> all my life so far. I can take stress to a certain level and call

> the tough decisions rationnaly, and not even show a sign, but when

> that level is reached, I loose all my senses. But I'm sure that

> this surgery will, in a way, help me on more fronts that... my

front

> teeth !

>

> Ray

[Guest guest]

> You are welcome, Ray, and I am glad for any help I've been able to

> lend you. I can tell you that there have been lots of folks here

who

> helped restore my sanity, back when I was sooo frightened. So

maybe I

> am passing a bit of it on. ;~)

>

> I do think most folks get frightened when they hear of the

surgery. I

> was fortunate in that I knew a few folks who had already been

through

> it, but it did scare me, in part just because it had never

occurred

> to me that I would have to do it.

>

> But you know, Ray, I think, (If I may be didactic here -- that's

> boring, I know) you have done a lot of your changes yourself. I am

so

> glad that you have a psychologist who can work with you and is

> sympathetic. That's great. But I'd bet he'd be the first to tell

you

> that you're the one who's had to make the changes. And I am so

glad

> that you feel in charge of your life again. I think that is one

true

> key to happiness.

>

> Which I wish for you.

>

> Cammie

I don't want to disclose my entire life here (because it's boring!

lol!) but I've been seeing him since last March, once a month, and

recently every two weeks as my stress level rose up a bit (a bit...

a lot I should say!)

He basically said the same things as you just did, that I've

undergone a lot of changes, all of them very positive. I'm more

confident in meeting new people (especially since a co-worker told

me, totally out of the blue, that my teeth were looking much more

straight then before). I've also started to paint, to play with

Photoshop (a way to express what's inside of me).

Lately, he explained that for a lot of people, such a surgery is

a " starter " through a new Life. They, either before or after,

initiate a series of changes both on the inside and on the outside.

So I guess that this has worked well for me. That's a big reason

why I am now seeking with joy (well, sort of!) this surgery. I'm

positive this will bring me a lot more of self-confidence; it has

already done so.

I've always believe in finding help where it is. No matter if

people think I'm crazy, a psychologist seemed like a reasonable way

to balance, or help me understand, what was going on on the inside

which I couldn't explain, and therefore, fully appreciate.

Thanks again Cammie

Ray

[Guest guest]

Ray, I just thought I would pipe in on the self confidence thing.

One thing I think we should all be aware of pre-op is that we may not

be as beautiful post-op as we are expecting. I don't know what your

expectations are, I am trying not to have any. I just know that I

have read a lot of post of people that were disappointed with their

post op appearance. I wonder how much is disappointment with how

they appear vs. what they expected. I know I tend to be a hopeless

optimist and tend to end up disappointed (depressed) because things

don't turn out like I expect.

On the other hand. I think a smile makes your whole face and if we

feel like we have a beautiful smile we will use it. That can't

possibly hurt.

Am I making any sense at all? I just drank a glass of wine and I

think I confused myself.

Glad to know you are going into the October surgeries with us. I

intend to start a list as soon as I see the surgeon next week and he

says my roots are going in the right place (don't want to jinx it by

being on another list too soon).

[Guest guest]

,

I'd say there are expectations and Expectations... Let me explain my

views. I don't argue with you, I simply express what I think here :

I could go into this, expecting to have a perfect Hollywood like

smile, and be totally disapointed (or totally happy, both are

possible).

I could go into this, keeping my personal reality in mind, and come

up with quite a good smile, and best of all, a fully, more or less,

functionning bite and be happy with it.

If one thigthens her/his expectations so much as to not leave a

simple millimeter of room, one is likely to be disapointement, and a

little depressed.

But I chose to go into this with the reality, which is...

- As far as I can remember, chewing has always been a problem.

Steak, Popcorn, fresh veggies, nuts, etc. More so for the last two

years, I choke on ground beef, noodles like Fettuccinnis, etc.

- On all pictures, I could never smile without opening my mouth to a

point where my tongue and bottom mouth would be completely visible.

This has made me a very good photographer, on the other hand. I've

been asked, countless time, to shoot pictures of people at weddings,

parties, studio, etc. I like to think I made the best of what I had!

- My actual teeth configuration is far from Hollywood standards,

this won't change with the OS, unless I can afford extra treatment

to grind, polish, remold (rebuilt ???) them almost completely. I

don't say I'll never do it. But for now, 5000$ is way out of my

financial means, and totally out of my goals.

- I could never engage in any social activities beginning with a

simple smile because, well, I had none to show This has turned

me into a socially fearfull person. I avoid any social activities,

at all cost. I don't think this will change from day 1 after the

surgery. It will, however, put the tools in my hands for me to act

upon.

Therefore, only the slightest improvement in any of these points

will be, for me, a totally big success. I know, there are still

risks that I won't like how I look afterwards, or that some food

will still be off-limits (but please, let have the Popcorn!!). For

the new looks, I took the time to work on a picture of me using

Photoshop (I'm a Photoshop guy, I do digital retouching on a daily

basis). So, I have a pretty good idea of what I'll look like. To

be honnest (I think I said this here a few days ago), at first, I

really didn't like what I saw. It just wasn't me. The guy on the

screen was a stranger. When I started to look at the whole picture

instead of only my mouth, I realized things would not be so

different. We are usually very poor at judging ourselves.

So I think I gathered enough positivism to come out of this happy,

one way or the other

My psychologist asked me one very honnest question : How would I

react if, in a year, this wouldn't be over or the results would not

be as I expect them? I answered that at least, I'd have done

something to try and fix things. And that I've always managed

things before, I can't be sure, but I will find a way.

Then he said I was on the right road for a happy surgery time

I'm in the process of building a list of reasons why I chose, 12

months ago, to go through all this. That list will sit right next

to my desk, so that when I'll feel down, I will look at it and

remind me of the promise I made to myself in regards to the time and

efforst it will take for all this to be completed.

And I totally agree with you on the smile. It makes a face, it

shows what you have on the inside. I've always been a happy guy, no

matter how hard life has been at times on me (like the rest of us,

I'm sure). But I've also always been judged as severe because I

rarely smiled. That's not true, I know it, but how can people see

what's not there.. a simple smile

Ray

> Ray, I just thought I would pipe in on the self confidence

thing.

> One thing I think we should all be aware of pre-op is that we may

not

> be as beautiful post-op as we are expecting. I don't know what

your

> expectations are, I am trying not to have any. I just know that I

> have read a lot of post of people that were disappointed with

their

> post op appearance. I wonder how much is disappointment with how

> they appear vs. what they expected. I know I tend to be a

hopeless

> optimist and tend to end up disappointed (depressed) because

things

> don't turn out like I expect.

>

> On the other hand. I think a smile makes your whole face and if

we

> feel like we have a beautiful smile we will use it. That can't

> possibly hurt.

>

> Am I making any sense at all? I just drank a glass of wine and I

> think I confused myself.

>

> Glad to know you are going into the October surgeries with us. I

> intend to start a list as soon as I see the surgeon next week and

he

> says my roots are going in the right place (don't want to jinx it

by

> being on another list too soon).

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oops..! I think I wrote way too much. My appologies

> ,

>

> I'd say there are expectations and Expectations... Let me explain

my

> views. I don't argue with you, I simply express what I think

here :

....

[Guest guest]

You sound so much more prepared for this aspect than me. Like I

said, I am trying not to have expectations, so I won't be

disappointed, but I also know my propensity for optimism. I am also

trying to keep this same trait in check with regards to recovery. I

can't tell you how many birthdays I ended up depressed because it

didn't turn out the way I expected I am not sure how I have turned

optimism into a bad thing, but I have.

[Guest guest]

,

I just wanted you know how genuinely glad I am to have met you - at least

cyberly on this site. Not only are we surgery buddies, we also share many

similarities in our character. I'm certainly not a pessimist, but I keep my

optimism in check because I know I could easily feel let down and disappointed

otherwise. I also need to be careful in that I tend to be too logical,

practical, and serious in my personal life. It's ironic actually, because as a

psychologist my patients tell me I am very down to earth and have a great way of

bringing humor into the sessions. But in my personal life, I can get way too

serious and I often need to remind myself to just let go and have fun.

Thanks for sharing not only what you are going through, but who you are.

Sharon

Re: Hey, Ray!

You sound so much more prepared for this aspect than me. Like I

said, I am trying not to have expectations, so I won't be

disappointed, but I also know my propensity for optimism. I am also

trying to keep this same trait in check with regards to recovery. I

can't tell you how many birthdays I ended up depressed because it

didn't turn out the way I expected I am not sure how I have turned

optimism into a bad thing, but I have.

[Guest guest]

Lemme warn you about one thing... Maybe at the risk of sending you

into a swoon... I hope not...

This surgery will not change your life. I think your life has already

changed, so much, since you first came openly on this site, that

you're gonna find things much better on the Other Side. But there are

folks who have had the surgery and thought it would instantly make

their lives different.

You will still be the same valuable, wonderful person, with all the

same potentials, after you go through it that you were before it. You

will not probably, though, instantly be the belle or beau of the

ball, nor the hit of the party.

Personally, I believe the key to enjoying the party is fixing on

whoever you're talking with as if he or she were the only person in

the room, and letting things flow from there -- but that's just the

take of the longtime wallflower at the ball (who's been fortunate

enough to find two wonderful men who gave her the very best of their

souls on long-term bases).

Now, if this can be a " starter " for you, so much the better! No

reason not to let it be. And yes, whatever changes work for you are

wonderful. Lately, I have done something so tiny as starting to park

in the lower 40 lot, and walk three minutes or so into the office.

(OK. I walk slowly) But it makes me feel better, and that's swell!

And gets me back on track toward my 3-5 mile morning hike, abandoned

after surgery.

Babe-oh -- if I can try to take charge of my loopy existence, so as

heck can you. And anything that works (well, not anything. Not drugs,

or miseries, of course) and gets you to a better spot, is worthy. I

guess I mean anything healthy -- carrot juice or exercise or good

nutrition and sleep, that sorta stuff...

You're doing just fine. All you gotta do is keep on track.

Cammie

[Guest guest]

In 1990, I had an eye surgery, to correct a misalignment (the right

eye was looking at an angle of 55 degrees when the left was looking

straight).

When I got out of this surgery, I wasn't the star of the day,

neither changed dramatically. But... As things settle down, it

became easier to talk to people because they didn't have to guess

wheter I was talking to them or not (based on where I looked).

One year later, I got a job in a small restaurant, at the counter

(serving and tending cash). Would have I not been through with this

surgery, I don't think I could have got this job.

That's what I meant when I said I will have the tools in my hand for

me to use.

The only real thing I'm expecting, or hoping for, is to finally have

a portrait studio done of me, in two years And this, without my

actual braces, I could do, more or less. My front teeth have been

moved so much, in fact, they are straight now, that even a normal

smile would show 2 or 3 millimeters of them. Hey! That's exactly

what I was hoping to get (besides the better bite to chew food), a

smile! Now, if the surgery can make it even better, why not try

it?

Also, in 2000, I started to loose weight (with Weight Watchers), and

(this I was really proud of) I lost 70 pounds (picture me 5'6 " at

215lbs..!) over 8 months (food + exercise). But for the last two

years, I've had a series of bad news (Mom died, bankruptcy at the

work place, etc.), and I regained 20 pounds. With the braces, it's

more difficult to eat, so I pretty much put the weight loss on hold

for a while. So another good outcome of this surgery is that,

around June next year, I will have a good enough bite to start

eating salad again, fresh veggies, etc. The *good* stuff! For now,

the ortho had to straight up my teeth to get them prep for the

surgery, but as a result, an entire side no longer touches (top vs

bottom) and on the other side, only 3 teeth are really

functionning. It's too complicated to eat anything too solid. And

to be honnest, I'd be like organizing a fight on too many fronts.

So, for now, I concentrate on my surgery, my mental well being. A

full time job, almost

All this to say I think I know my way around long term commitment

and real expectations. I may not be very optimistic on every day

after the surgery, but in the long run, I believe I have what is

required to get through this.

Thanks again Cammie, your words are always music to my hears

Ray

> Lemme warn you about one thing... Maybe at the risk of sending you

> into a swoon... I hope not...

>

> This surgery will not change your life. I think your life has

already

> changed, so much, since you first came openly on this site, that

> you're gonna find things much better on the Other Side. But there

are

> folks who have had the surgery and thought it would instantly make

> their lives different.

>

> You will still be the same valuable, wonderful person, with all

the

> same potentials, after you go through it that you were before it.

You

> will not probably, though, instantly be the belle or beau of the

> ball, nor the hit of the party.

>

> Personally, I believe the key to enjoying the party is fixing on

> whoever you're talking with as if he or she were the only person

in

> the room, and letting things flow from there -- but that's just

the

> take of the longtime wallflower at the ball (who's been fortunate

> enough to find two wonderful men who gave her the very best of

their

> souls on long-term bases).

>

> Now, if this can be a " starter " for you, so much the better! No

> reason not to let it be. And yes, whatever changes work for you

are

> wonderful. Lately, I have done something so tiny as starting to

park

> in the lower 40 lot, and walk three minutes or so into the office.

> (OK. I walk slowly) But it makes me feel better, and that's swell!

> And gets me back on track toward my 3-5 mile morning hike,

abandoned

> after surgery.

>

> Babe-oh -- if I can try to take charge of my loopy existence, so

as

> heck can you. And anything that works (well, not anything. Not

drugs,

> or miseries, of course) and gets you to a better spot, is worthy.

I

> guess I mean anything healthy -- carrot juice or exercise or good

> nutrition and sleep, that sorta stuff...

>

> You're doing just fine. All you gotta do is keep on track.

> Cammie

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

You are just the sweetest thing. It is so great to have people to

talk to that understand that we are going through. I know my family

is sick and tired of hearing about my obsession. ly, I think he

may be tired of me always being on this board, but knows how good it

is for me.

As a psychologist, you would have a field day with my family. I

would be the crazy cat lady if I wasn't married (I have 5 plus 1 I

don't claim but still eats my food), and when I was telling my

husband about you, he jokingly says, what she look like ask her to

send a picture, lol.