Re: Sober 'n' dry drunk (is still: just got 12-stepped)

[Guest guest]

Hi

> And it seems to me that steppers make " sobriety " such an absolute

thing. If someone has

> too much to drink at a party on Saturday night, it would seem to me

that such a person is

> not sober only as long as s/he is impaired. But once the hangover

is past and such a

> person is back to normal, s/he is once again " sober " . But the

steppers would see that

> person as " not sober " all the time, till s/he comes into the

program and abstains

> completely.

Yep. Another thing that fred Rotgers points out is that for better

or worse *most* ppl get a bit drunk every now and again, typically on

commemorative occasions, when their team won something big or

whatever. Not only are absurdly absolute standards demanded by many

ppl for sobriety, but it is insisted that moderators must achieve a

standard of drinking that is more strict than ppl in general. But

why should this be so? So long as a person never drinks to endanger

themselves or others in any way or to impair their health or life

functioning, what does it matter if ppl get a bit tipsy every now and

again. It is of course amusing and informative that Jews are well-

known for their very low levels of alcoholism yet their religion

actually calls for ppl to get safely sloshed on a commemorative day.

P.

[Guest guest]

> And it seems to me that steppers make " sobriety " such an absolute

thing. If someone has

Yes they do. Its either don't drink or die. That is pretty

extreme or even absolute.

> too much to drink at a party on Saturday night, it would seem to

me that such a person is

> not sober only as long as s/he is impaired. But once the hangover

is past and such a

> person is back to normal, s/he is once again " sober " . But the

steppers would see that

> person as " not sober " all the time, till s/he comes into the

program and abstains

> completely.

Their (steppers') definition of sober in objective words =

brainwashed by and complying with the tenets of XA. The sane

people's defition of sober = not drunk and/or habitually temperate.

In fact my dictionary (from the 60s) has 9 definitions of the

word including: 1 not intoxicated or drunk, 2 habitually temperate,

3 quiet or sedate in demanor, 4 marked by seriousness, gravity,

solemnity, 5 subdued in tone, not showy, 6 free from excess, 7

showing SELF control, 8 sane or rational, 9 to make or become sober.

Nowhere does it say sober is a synonym of abstinent. Nor does it

say sober = the only known " cure " for certain " diseases " ,

specifically " alcoholism " , " drug addiction " , and " eating disorders. "

However, we can see how XA has had an impact on the definition of

the word by reading the current 21st century definition at www.m-

w.com. It has evolved as the " addiction " concept has caught on, but

the word " sober " still means what it did in the 1960s definition

above (which is quite different from the typical stepper definition):

1 a : sparing in the use of food and drink : ABSTEMIOUS b : not

addicted to intoxicating drink c : not drunk

2 : marked by sedate or gravely or earnestly thoughtful character or

demeanor

3 : UNHURRIED, CALM

4 : marked by temperance, moderation, or seriousness

5 : subdued in tone or color

6 : showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy, emotion, or

prejudice

It is funny, by that definition, " not addicted to intoxicating

drink, " when one becomes sober, they are no longer addicted... I

wonder what the steppers can say about that? I thought steppers

said addiction was incurable, and had to be " fought " one day at a

time for the rest of my life? Or is it not possible for an addict

to be sober, since he will always be addicted? Maybe they are all

dry drunks!!! They certainly are all a little fucked up (and some

are very fucked up).

> If a stepper were to ask me how I stay sober, I'd say, " Not get

drunk. " Well, how do I

> refrain from getting drunk if I'm not in the program? Well, just

don't open the bottle

> and drink, that's how. If that makes me " dry drunk " , okay.

Fine. So I'm dry drunk by

> stepper definition....

Right, and so what!

You are a dry-drunk (and probably lots of other derogatory things)

by XA definition.

You are an infidel (and probably lots of other derogatory things)

by bin Laden definition.

You are a heathen (bound for Hell) (and probably lots of other

derogatory things) by Christian definition.

You are an Anti-Semite (and probably lots of other derogatory

things) by Jewish definition.

You are a damn Capitalist (and probably lots of other derogatory

things) by most of the rest of the world's definition.

You are probably a stupid southerner (with a stupid hick accent)

(and probably lots of other derogatory things) by a Yankee's

definition.

You are white trash (and probably lots of other derogatory things)

by yuppie definition.

You are a lesser being (and probably lots of other derogatory

things) by Harvard definition.

You are an elephant (and probably a mean bitch) (and probably lots

of other derogatory things) by the anorexic's definition.

You are a criminal (and also a sheisty tax payer, and another

idiot voter)(and probably lots and lots and lots of other derogatory

things) by the government's definition.

You are a stupid Democrat (baby killer!) (and probably lots of

other derogatory things) by Republican definition.

You are merely fodder by a general's definition.

You are a fearful (rightly so) and lazy civilian by a soldier's

definition.

You are a bad student by your teacher's definition.

You are an animal by nature's definition.

You are an (put their word(s) here) by your parent's definition.

You were a stepper by anti-XA definition.

Who gives a rat's ass about other people's judgments of you. You

are going to let it bother you or effect you in any way because

ignorant people who don't know who or what you are need a label to

put on you?

[Guest guest]

Thanks for a good laugh, Cool Guy. Of course I'm a dry drunk by stepper

definition, and

frankly I don't care.

I got a good laugh out of all the other things you listed I am by other people's

definition. I can think of lots of other things people think I am. Did you see

the post

in when I casually mentioned my Buddhism? My post was promtly answered by

another post

bad-rapping the Buddha and pointing out that the guy was a real jerk. And

another post

blamed Buddhism for the undesirable behavior in Bushido. I had to chuckle.

Glad to see you. I was wondering if you were still around.

Cheers,

nz

[Guest guest]

>

> If that makes me " dry drunk " , okay.

> > Fine. So I'm dry drunk by

> > > stepper definition....

> >

> > Right, and so what!

>

> OR - You're not an alcoholic...and that suits me just fine!

Oh yeah, just state the obvious! Well done!

Well in your opinion Netty! Ask any shrink or parole officer and

they might have a different opinion.

But you are right... that's just another label other some people

gave you that doesn't have to effect you whatsoever and you don't

have to accept it.

[Guest guest]

While we are on this topic. I just got out of the shower, and I

haven't used any expensive illegal drugs in quite some time (but I

have abused them at times long ago) so am I clean or not according

to XA? I wish someone would tell me.

> > And it seems to me that steppers make " sobriety " such an

absolute

> thing. If someone has

>

> Yes they do. Its either don't drink or die. That is pretty

> extreme or even absolute.

>

> > too much to drink at a party on Saturday night, it would seem

to

> me that such a person is

> > not sober only as long as s/he is impaired. But once the

hangover

> is past and such a

> > person is back to normal, s/he is once again " sober " . But the

> steppers would see that

> > person as " not sober " all the time, till s/he comes into the

> program and abstains

> > completely.

>

> Their (steppers') definition of sober in objective words =

> brainwashed by and complying with the tenets of XA. The sane

> people's defition of sober = not drunk and/or habitually

temperate.

> In fact my dictionary (from the 60s) has 9 definitions of the

> word including: 1 not intoxicated or drunk, 2 habitually

temperate,

> 3 quiet or sedate in demanor, 4 marked by seriousness, gravity,

> solemnity, 5 subdued in tone, not showy, 6 free from excess, 7

> showing SELF control, 8 sane or rational, 9 to make or become

sober.

> Nowhere does it say sober is a synonym of abstinent. Nor does

it

> say sober = the only known " cure " for certain " diseases " ,

> specifically " alcoholism " , " drug addiction " , and " eating

disorders. "

>

> However, we can see how XA has had an impact on the definition

of

> the word by reading the current 21st century definition at www.m-

> w.com. It has evolved as the " addiction " concept has caught on,

but

> the word " sober " still means what it did in the 1960s definition

> above (which is quite different from the typical stepper

definition):

>

> 1 a : sparing in the use of food and drink : ABSTEMIOUS b : not

> addicted to intoxicating drink c : not drunk

> 2 : marked by sedate or gravely or earnestly thoughtful character

or

> demeanor

> 3 : UNHURRIED, CALM

> 4 : marked by temperance, moderation, or seriousness

> 5 : subdued in tone or color

> 6 : showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy, emotion,

or

> prejudice

>

> It is funny, by that definition, " not addicted to intoxicating

> drink, " when one becomes sober, they are no longer addicted... I

> wonder what the steppers can say about that? I thought steppers

> said addiction was incurable, and had to be " fought " one day at a

> time for the rest of my life? Or is it not possible for an

addict

> to be sober, since he will always be addicted? Maybe they are

all

> dry drunks!!! They certainly are all a little fucked up (and

some

> are very fucked up).

>

> > If a stepper were to ask me how I stay sober, I'd say, " Not get

> drunk. " Well, how do I

> > refrain from getting drunk if I'm not in the program? Well,

just

> don't open the bottle

> > and drink, that's how. If that makes me " dry drunk " , okay.

> Fine. So I'm dry drunk by

> > stepper definition....

>

> Right, and so what!

>

> You are a dry-drunk (and probably lots of other derogatory

things)

> by XA definition.

> You are an infidel (and probably lots of other derogatory

things)

> by bin Laden definition.

> You are a heathen (bound for Hell) (and probably lots of other

> derogatory things) by Christian definition.

> You are an Anti-Semite (and probably lots of other derogatory

> things) by Jewish definition.

> You are a damn Capitalist (and probably lots of other

derogatory

> things) by most of the rest of the world's definition.

> You are probably a stupid southerner (with a stupid hick accent)

> (and probably lots of other derogatory things) by a Yankee's

> definition.

> You are white trash (and probably lots of other derogatory

things)

> by yuppie definition.

> You are a lesser being (and probably lots of other derogatory

> things) by Harvard definition.

> You are an elephant (and probably a mean bitch) (and probably

lots

> of other derogatory things) by the anorexic's definition.

> You are a criminal (and also a sheisty tax payer, and another

> idiot voter)(and probably lots and lots and lots of other

derogatory

> things) by the government's definition.

> You are a stupid Democrat (baby killer!) (and probably lots of

> other derogatory things) by Republican definition.

> You are merely fodder by a general's definition.

> You are a fearful (rightly so) and lazy civilian by a soldier's

> definition.

> You are a bad student by your teacher's definition.

> You are an animal by nature's definition.

> You are an (put their word(s) here) by your parent's definition.

> You were a stepper by anti-XA definition.

>

> Who gives a rat's ass about other people's judgments of you.

You

> are going to let it bother you or effect you in any way because

> ignorant people who don't know who or what you are need a label

to

> put on you? >>

[Guest guest]

Most people, including AAer's, would conclude that you are clean

since you just took a shower.

> > > And it seems to me that steppers make " sobriety " such an

> absolute

> > thing. If someone has

> >

> > Yes they do. Its either don't drink or die. That is pretty

> > extreme or even absolute.

> >

> > > too much to drink at a party on Saturday night, it would seem

> to

> > me that such a person is

> > > not sober only as long as s/he is impaired. But once the

> hangover

> > is past and such a

> > > person is back to normal, s/he is once again " sober " . But the

> > steppers would see that

> > > person as " not sober " all the time, till s/he comes into the

> > program and abstains

> > > completely.

> >

> > Their (steppers') definition of sober in objective words =

> > brainwashed by and complying with the tenets of XA. The sane

> > people's defition of sober = not drunk and/or habitually

> temperate.

> > In fact my dictionary (from the 60s) has 9 definitions of the

> > word including: 1 not intoxicated or drunk, 2 habitually

> temperate,

> > 3 quiet or sedate in demanor, 4 marked by seriousness, gravity,

> > solemnity, 5 subdued in tone, not showy, 6 free from excess, 7

> > showing SELF control, 8 sane or rational, 9 to make or become

> sober.

> > Nowhere does it say sober is a synonym of abstinent. Nor

does

> it

> > say sober = the only known " cure " for certain " diseases " ,

> > specifically " alcoholism " , " drug addiction " , and " eating

> disorders. "

> >

> > However, we can see how XA has had an impact on the

definition

> of

> > the word by reading the current 21st century definition at www.m-

> > w.com. It has evolved as the " addiction " concept has caught on,

> but

> > the word " sober " still means what it did in the 1960s definition

> > above (which is quite different from the typical stepper

> definition):

> >

> > 1 a : sparing in the use of food and drink : ABSTEMIOUS b : not

> > addicted to intoxicating drink c : not drunk

> > 2 : marked by sedate or gravely or earnestly thoughtful

character

> or

> > demeanor

> > 3 : UNHURRIED, CALM

> > 4 : marked by temperance, moderation, or seriousness

> > 5 : subdued in tone or color

> > 6 : showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy, emotion,

> or

> > prejudice

> >

> > It is funny, by that definition, " not addicted to

intoxicating

> > drink, " when one becomes sober, they are no longer addicted... I

> > wonder what the steppers can say about that? I thought steppers

> > said addiction was incurable, and had to be " fought " one day at

a

> > time for the rest of my life? Or is it not possible for an

> addict

> > to be sober, since he will always be addicted? Maybe they are

> all

> > dry drunks!!! They certainly are all a little fucked up (and

> some

> > are very fucked up).

> >

> > > If a stepper were to ask me how I stay sober, I'd say, " Not

get

> > drunk. " Well, how do I

> > > refrain from getting drunk if I'm not in the program? Well,

> just

> > don't open the bottle

> > > and drink, that's how. If that makes me " dry drunk " , okay.

> > Fine. So I'm dry drunk by

> > > stepper definition....

> >

> > Right, and so what!

> >

> > You are a dry-drunk (and probably lots of other derogatory

> things)

> > by XA definition.

> > You are an infidel (and probably lots of other derogatory

> things)

> > by bin Laden definition.

> > You are a heathen (bound for Hell) (and probably lots of other

> > derogatory things) by Christian definition.

> > You are an Anti-Semite (and probably lots of other derogatory

> > things) by Jewish definition.

> > You are a damn Capitalist (and probably lots of other

> derogatory

> > things) by most of the rest of the world's definition.

> > You are probably a stupid southerner (with a stupid hick

accent)

> > (and probably lots of other derogatory things) by a Yankee's

> > definition.

> > You are white trash (and probably lots of other derogatory

> things)

> > by yuppie definition.

> > You are a lesser being (and probably lots of other derogatory

> > things) by Harvard definition.

> > You are an elephant (and probably a mean bitch) (and probably

> lots

> > of other derogatory things) by the anorexic's definition.

> > You are a criminal (and also a sheisty tax payer, and another

> > idiot voter)(and probably lots and lots and lots of other

> derogatory

> > things) by the government's definition.

> > You are a stupid Democrat (baby killer!) (and probably lots of

> > other derogatory things) by Republican definition.

> > You are merely fodder by a general's definition.

> > You are a fearful (rightly so) and lazy civilian by a

soldier's

> > definition.

> > You are a bad student by your teacher's definition.

> > You are an animal by nature's definition.

> > You are an (put their word(s) here) by your parent's

definition.

> > You were a stepper by anti-XA definition.

> >

> > Who gives a rat's ass about other people's judgments of you.

> You

> > are going to let it bother you or effect you in any way because

> > ignorant people who don't know who or what you are need a label

> to

> > put on you? >>

[Guest guest]

but I haven't been to a meeting in over a year! Surely you jest.

> > > > And it seems to me that steppers make " sobriety " such an

> > absolute

> > > thing. If someone has

> > >

> > > Yes they do. Its either don't drink or die. That is

pretty

> > > extreme or even absolute.

> > >

> > > > too much to drink at a party on Saturday night, it would

seem

> > to

> > > me that such a person is

> > > > not sober only as long as s/he is impaired. But once the

> > hangover

> > > is past and such a

> > > > person is back to normal, s/he is once again " sober " . But

the

> > > steppers would see that

> > > > person as " not sober " all the time, till s/he comes into

the

> > > program and abstains

> > > > completely.

> > >

> > > Their (steppers') definition of sober in objective words =

> > > brainwashed by and complying with the tenets of XA. The sane

> > > people's defition of sober = not drunk and/or habitually

> > temperate.

> > > In fact my dictionary (from the 60s) has 9 definitions of

the

> > > word including: 1 not intoxicated or drunk, 2 habitually

> > temperate,

> > > 3 quiet or sedate in demanor, 4 marked by seriousness,

gravity,

> > > solemnity, 5 subdued in tone, not showy, 6 free from excess,

7

> > > showing SELF control, 8 sane or rational, 9 to make or become

> > sober.

> > > Nowhere does it say sober is a synonym of abstinent. Nor

> does

> > it

> > > say sober = the only known " cure " for certain " diseases " ,

> > > specifically " alcoholism " , " drug addiction " , and " eating

> > disorders. "

> > >

> > > However, we can see how XA has had an impact on the

> definition

> > of

> > > the word by reading the current 21st century definition at

www.m-

> > > w.com. It has evolved as the " addiction " concept has caught

on,

> > but

> > > the word " sober " still means what it did in the 1960s

definition

> > > above (which is quite different from the typical stepper

> > definition):

> > >

> > > 1 a : sparing in the use of food and drink : ABSTEMIOUS b :

not

> > > addicted to intoxicating drink c : not drunk

> > > 2 : marked by sedate or gravely or earnestly thoughtful

> character

> > or

> > > demeanor

> > > 3 : UNHURRIED, CALM

> > > 4 : marked by temperance, moderation, or seriousness

> > > 5 : subdued in tone or color

> > > 6 : showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy,

emotion,

> > or

> > > prejudice

> > >

> > > It is funny, by that definition, " not addicted to

> intoxicating

> > > drink, " when one becomes sober, they are no longer

addicted... I

> > > wonder what the steppers can say about that? I thought

steppers

> > > said addiction was incurable, and had to be " fought " one day

at

> a

> > > time for the rest of my life? Or is it not possible for an

> > addict

> > > to be sober, since he will always be addicted? Maybe they

are

> > all

> > > dry drunks!!! They certainly are all a little fucked up (and

> > some

> > > are very fucked up).

> > >

> > > > If a stepper were to ask me how I stay sober, I'd say, " Not

> get

> > > drunk. " Well, how do I

> > > > refrain from getting drunk if I'm not in the program?

Well,

> > just

> > > don't open the bottle

> > > > and drink, that's how. If that makes me " dry drunk " ,

okay.

> > > Fine. So I'm dry drunk by

> > > > stepper definition....

> > >

> > > Right, and so what!

> > >

> > > You are a dry-drunk (and probably lots of other derogatory

> > things)

> > > by XA definition.

> > > You are an infidel (and probably lots of other derogatory

> > things)

> > > by bin Laden definition.

> > > You are a heathen (bound for Hell) (and probably lots of

other

> > > derogatory things) by Christian definition.

> > > You are an Anti-Semite (and probably lots of other

derogatory

> > > things) by Jewish definition.

> > > You are a damn Capitalist (and probably lots of other

> > derogatory

> > > things) by most of the rest of the world's definition.

> > > You are probably a stupid southerner (with a stupid hick

> accent)

> > > (and probably lots of other derogatory things) by a Yankee's

> > > definition.

> > > You are white trash (and probably lots of other derogatory

> > things)

> > > by yuppie definition.

> > > You are a lesser being (and probably lots of other

derogatory

> > > things) by Harvard definition.

> > > You are an elephant (and probably a mean bitch) (and

probably

> > lots

> > > of other derogatory things) by the anorexic's definition.

> > > You are a criminal (and also a sheisty tax payer, and

another

> > > idiot voter)(and probably lots and lots and lots of other

> > derogatory

> > > things) by the government's definition.

> > > You are a stupid Democrat (baby killer!) (and probably lots

of

> > > other derogatory things) by Republican definition.

> > > You are merely fodder by a general's definition.

> > > You are a fearful (rightly so) and lazy civilian by a

> soldier's

> > > definition.

> > > You are a bad student by your teacher's definition.

> > > You are an animal by nature's definition.

> > > You are an (put their word(s) here) by your parent's

> definition.

> > > You were a stepper by anti-XA definition.

> > >

> > > Who gives a rat's ass about other people's judgments of

you.

> > You

> > > are going to let it bother you or effect you in any way

because

> > > ignorant people who don't know who or what you are need a

label

> > to

> > > put on you? >>

[Guest guest]

> While we are on this topic. I just got out of the shower, and I

> haven't used any expensive illegal drugs in quite some time

^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^

Dunno about AA, but I would perhaps wonder if you were being a tad

ingenuous - or is that ingenious? I'm sure I could have driven

a coach and horses (loaded with six packs?) through that statement -

subject to the availability of funds of course...

OT: Dintya just hate those oldtimers using phrases like " quite some

time " or " a little while " to refer to their " sobriety " and then wait

for the murmered AApproval and other psychophantic simperings? When I

arrived in AA, I genuinely wanted to know how much people had drunk,

what were their experiences, how did they STOP and what did they do

instead etc. It was all just so cliche-ridden...

Mack

[Guest guest]

> While we are on this topic. I just got out of the shower, and I

> haven't used any expensive illegal drugs in quite some time

^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^

Dunno about AA, but I would perhaps wonder if you were being a tad

ingenuous - or is that ingenious? I'm sure I could have driven

a coach and horses (loaded with six packs?) through that statement -

subject to the availability of funds of course...

OT: Dintya just hate those oldtimers using phrases like " quite some

time " or " a little while " to refer to their " sobriety " and then wait

for the murmered AApproval and other psychophantic simperings? When I

arrived in AA, I genuinely wanted to know how much people had drunk,

what were their experiences, how did they STOP and what did they do

instead etc. It was all just so cliche-ridden...

Mack

[Guest guest]

>but I haven't been to a meeting in over a year! Surely you jest.<

I should've closed my remark with !

jan

[Guest guest]

Don't forget the good old comment, " I've got a few 24 hours under my

belt. "

> > While we are on this topic. I just got out of the shower, and I

> > haven't used any expensive illegal drugs in quite some time

> ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^

>

> Dunno about AA, but I would perhaps wonder if you were being a tad

> ingenuous - or is that ingenious? I'm sure I could have

driven

> a coach and horses (loaded with six packs?) through that statement -

> subject to the availability of funds of course...

>

> OT: Dintya just hate those oldtimers using phrases like " quite some

> time " or " a little while " to refer to their " sobriety " and then

wait

> for the murmered AApproval and other psychophantic simperings? When

I

> arrived in AA, I genuinely wanted to know how much people had

drunk,

> what were their experiences, how did they STOP and what did they do

> instead etc. It was all just so cliche-ridden...

>

> Mack

[Guest guest]

Don't forget the good old comment, " I've got a few 24 hours under my

belt. "

> > While we are on this topic. I just got out of the shower, and I

> > haven't used any expensive illegal drugs in quite some time

> ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^

>

> Dunno about AA, but I would perhaps wonder if you were being a tad

> ingenuous - or is that ingenious? I'm sure I could have

driven

> a coach and horses (loaded with six packs?) through that statement -

> subject to the availability of funds of course...

>

> OT: Dintya just hate those oldtimers using phrases like " quite some

> time " or " a little while " to refer to their " sobriety " and then

wait

> for the murmered AApproval and other psychophantic simperings? When

I

> arrived in AA, I genuinely wanted to know how much people had

drunk,

> what were their experiences, how did they STOP and what did they do

> instead etc. It was all just so cliche-ridden...

>

> Mack