Guest guest Posted November 1, 2001 Report Share Posted November 1, 2001 Now that I have spent some time raising hell. I am finding that this list is not quite everything I imagined at first. I have read a few things I just cant argue with. There is much more breadth of experience here than I first thougth and some of you have really thought about this stuff long and hard. Maybe you have some valid points but I am also finding still that there is a lot of bias against anything AA may have to offer. Maybe I have seen some reasons for this in some of the things I have read about here. I could probbaly tone it down a littel and hear you all out but I still believe AA is the best plan. It concerns me that one member of this list announces tonight that she is now drinking, opening up that option again. Its an old tale and you may not like th e saying but it seems to sum up a lot 'Once an alcoholic always an alcoholic'. Why play with fire if you got burnt before? This disease is insidious in that way. People think themselves out of AA and then in a matte of time they start thinking about drining. It happens a lot, and then they come back to AA scratching they heads. It is unbelievable to watch it happen...sad too. I have a lot to think about here. The big book does say hats off to people who can do the about face and drink normally and that we dont have a monolpoly on therapy for alcoholics. Okay my sponsor just reminded me of that, I just got off the phone with her. I think that more than one person here has told me to call my sponsor, well she called me but we did talk about this stuff. But for the grace of God, Kay T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2001 Report Share Posted November 1, 2001 But at 17, how could she ever have gotten burnt? Why must it be fire she is playing with? What if she was never truely an alcoholic? Could someone become a memeber and never really be ab alcohlic? Nothing is impossible. >From: kahn_troll@... >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: I asked my sponsor and... >Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 07:23:15 -0000 > >Now that I have spent some time raising hell. I am finding that this >list is not quite everything I imagined at first. I have read a few >things I just cant argue with. There is much more breadth of >experience here than I first thougth and some of you have really >thought about this stuff long and hard. Maybe you have some valid >points but I am also finding still that there is a lot of bias >against anything AA may have to offer. Maybe I have seen some reasons >for this in some of the things I have read about here. I could >probbaly tone it down a littel and hear you all out but I still >believe AA is the best plan. It concerns me that one member of this >list announces tonight that she is now drinking, opening up that >option again. Its an old tale and you may not like th e saying but it >seems to sum up a lot 'Once an alcoholic always an alcoholic'. Why >play with fire if you got burnt before? This disease is insidious in >that way. People think themselves out of AA and then in a matte of >time they start thinking about drining. It happens a lot, and then >they come back to AA scratching they heads. It is unbelievable to >watch it happen...sad too. I have a lot to think about here. The big >book does say hats off to people who can do the about face and drink >normally and that we dont have a monolpoly on therapy for alcoholics. >Okay my sponsor just reminded me of that, I just got off the phone >with her. I think that more than one person here has told me to call >my sponsor, well she called me but we did talk about this stuff. > >But for the grace of God, >Kay T. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2001 Report Share Posted November 2, 2001 Kay: I found the hardest thing in AA was to accept when another person chooses to use alcohol again. I tried to detach. Two women I knew even died. One drank herself to death after being 10 months sober, it was very sad. Her mother was sober in AA and also went to Alanon. It did not affect her as horribly as the group. That was an extreme case, the lady who drank again (28) had pacreatitus and was a candidate for a liver transplant. I blamed the group. In one summer, three young people died. Anyway, needless to say I started a resentment against the program, I even thought about calling the central office and complaining about the place where I went to meetings. What I needed to do was stay focused on me. That is very hard to do. I think you can do it though, and you might subconsciously be seeking alternatives to AA. I'm glad you have helped generate such an interesting discussion. I respect your dedication to your sobriety and yes, maybe this group is a splinter but it does no harm. People are allowed to say that they want to and do drink again here and are accepted, in AA they are shamed. Guilt and shame are too negative, I hope your group you attend is a healthy one, incorporating views from every walk of life. And, also, as Abaddun pointed out, there are many good things about AA. I'm glad you chose to visit this site. Thank you. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2001 Report Share Posted November 2, 2001 > Now that I have spent some time raising hell. I am finding that this > list is not quite everything I imagined at first. I have read a few > things I just cant argue with. There is much more breadth of > experience here than I first thougth and some of you have really > thought about this stuff long and hard. Maybe you have some valid > points but I am also finding still that there is a lot of bias > against anything AA may have to offer. I am the one who told you that maybe you needed to work your " program " and to call your sponsor rather than continue to 'raise hell' over here. You sound as if your are proud of your behavior! If you truly do believe in the AA way of life that you follow, your actions only showed your 'character defects' of trying to control other people and to force your 'will' on others. AAers are always saying how they cannot control other people and how 'acceptance' of others is important. I guess that only applies to others since most AAers really do not practice what they preach. From my own experience with the years I spent in AA and NA, I have found that the members mean that other people than themselves are supposed to practice acceptance when others do not agree with them or seem offensive. It is really not your problem that many of us are biased against AA. Our experiences are as valid as yours. I remember one program cliche that maybe you should take to heart: " Keep your own side of the street swept. " I could understand your reasons for your 'raising hell' over here if we were going into AA/NA meetings trying to drag people out or trolling on Twelve-Step clubs/e-groups blasting the " program " . I was a member of AA and NA for a little over eight years and I also participated on internet Twelve Step sites. Instead of 'raising hell' at the meetings or the internet clubs when my feelings changed about the " program " , I simply stopped going to the meetings and cancelled my internet AA/NA club memberships. It was really that simple, Kay. I did not have to act in the fashion that you did and I don't even need steps or sponsors to know how to act in a respectable manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2001 Report Share Posted November 2, 2001 Finding Rational Recovery ( www.rational.org ) is what got me out of a ten year career in AA. As I look back that ten year career was just as sad (even though I didn't drink), and in some ways worse, than the ten preceeding years of my chemical dependency. Take just a few minutes to stop everything and imagine as hard as possible whether you would REALLY like it or not if you could eliminate all recovery group activity in your life forever and STILL never drink/drug again. DT I asked my sponsor and... Now that I have spent some time raising hell. I am finding that this list is not quite everything I imagined at first. I have read a few things I just cant argue with. There is much more breadth of experience here than I first thougth and some of you have really thought about this stuff long and hard. Maybe you have some valid points but I am also finding still that there is a lot of bias against anything AA may have to offer. Maybe I have seen some reasons for this in some of the things I have read about here. I could probbaly tone it down a littel and hear you all out but I still believe AA is the best plan. It concerns me that one member of this list announces tonight that she is now drinking, opening up that option again. Its an old tale and you may not like th e saying but it seems to sum up a lot 'Once an alcoholic always an alcoholic'. Why play with fire if you got burnt before? This disease is insidious in that way. People think themselves out of AA and then in a matte of time they start thinking about drining. It happens a lot, and then they come back to AA scratching they heads. It is unbelievable to watch it happen...sad too. I have a lot to think about here. The big book does say hats off to people who can do the about face and drink normally and that we dont have a monolpoly on therapy for alcoholics. Okay my sponsor just reminded me of that, I just got off the phone with her. I think that more than one person here has told me to call my sponsor, well she called me but we did talk about this stuff.But for the grace of God,Kay T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2001 Report Share Posted November 2, 2001 At 09:28 AM 11/2/01 -0600, Dave Trippel wrote: >Finding Rational Recovery ( www.rational.org ) is what got me out of a ten year career in AA. As I look back that ten year career was just as sad (even though I didn't drink), and in some ways worse, than the ten preceeding years of my chemical dependency. > >Take just a few minutes to stop everything and imagine as hard as possible whether you would REALLY like it or not if you could eliminate all recovery group activity in your life forever and STILL never drink/drug again. Dave, if I remember right, you never bought into most of the AA ideas and beliefs. I did, and what you suggest would have scared me when I was in AA and starting to question it, as I had no friends outside AA. Looking back with the definition of friend I now use, I had no friends in AA either [well, not strictly true, but the two or three friends I had left AA before I did]. I needed to find a social outlet outside of 12-step groups, and started searching. I even went to a protestant Christian denomination for a while, but decided I couldn't be there and still be true to what I believed (I already had that problem in AA). I found a UU congregation which helped a lot, but I think most anything to be around " earth people " in a non-coercive atmosphere helps. ---------- http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2001 Report Share Posted November 2, 2001 > really that simple, Kay. I did not have to act in the fashion that > you did and I don't even need steps or sponsors to know how to act in > a respectable manner. I will do my utmost to follow your sterling example. Thank you. I have been thinking about getting a new sponsor. You sound like a good candidate. Kay T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2001 Report Share Posted November 3, 2001 > > > really that simple, Kay. I did not have to act in the fashion that > > you did and I don't even need steps or sponsors to know how to act > in > > a respectable manner. > > > I will do my utmost to follow your sterling example. Thank you. I > have been thinking about getting a new sponsor. You sound like a good > candidate. > > Kay T. I don't sponsor people and I am not an AAer so I am hardly your candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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