Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 M - While in AA, I didn't believe that there could be "shades". I can't believe how closed down I was - My own brothers are examples of those shades. One drinks on occasion. He went through his wild days of getting into trouble when he drank, and knows that he has to be careful. But the point is he that when he does drink, there is no fear or guilt attached. The other brother hasn't had a drink in 11 or 12 years. I had discounted his "sobriety" since he doesn't go to AA (wasn't sucked in like I was) and smokes weed from time to time. I spoke with him yesterday about my decision and asked him what he has done over the years to remain sober. Again, there was no guilt or fear attached to his decision to stop drinking. What he said was that it was like putting a complete turkey dinner in front of him after just finishing one. He had had his fill of it. How simple it really is. How our minds turn abstinence into some kind of a monster in the closet or under the bed. In order to keep that monster away, AA says we must get into the good graces of some higher power who willl punish us and let the monster get us if we don't learn to keep in line. Flip side of that loving higher power stuff which is never talked about. Man, I love this site!!! Janice CB wrote: Janice,>>In my case, I really don't want to try again - Went through years ofhell and don't want to tempt fate. I'm satisfied with the knowledgethat I make an idiot out of myself, as well as feel like shit, everytime I drink, and I don't see that a topic to even consider. <<<<<<thanks for that - it's pretty much how I feel. One of the things I likeabout this list is that there seems to be room for all 'shades'....fromthe person who drank very little for a very short time, then had yearsof AA....... to someone who drank a lot, for a long time, and, as yousay, had years of hell , and now wants to remain abstinent.....which iswhere I would place myself......and all shades in between. Room forthose who can drink a little, and for those who wish to remainabstinent.It's just another thing that says to me that the 'one size fits all'approach of AA is not what I once believed it to be (and oh, how Ibelieved that! Tomboy - something you said, sorry can't rememberwhat.....about being so 'into' it all.....that was me. 16 years. Stillextremely messed up in many ways, but better 'within myself' if thatmakes sense)Really liked what you said - thank you.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 M - While in AA, I didn't believe that there could be "shades". I can't believe how closed down I was - My own brothers are examples of those shades. One drinks on occasion. He went through his wild days of getting into trouble when he drank, and knows that he has to be careful. But the point is he that when he does drink, there is no fear or guilt attached. The other brother hasn't had a drink in 11 or 12 years. I had discounted his "sobriety" since he doesn't go to AA (wasn't sucked in like I was) and smokes weed from time to time. I spoke with him yesterday about my decision and asked him what he has done over the years to remain sober. Again, there was no guilt or fear attached to his decision to stop drinking. What he said was that it was like putting a complete turkey dinner in front of him after just finishing one. He had had his fill of it. How simple it really is. How our minds turn abstinence into some kind of a monster in the closet or under the bed. In order to keep that monster away, AA says we must get into the good graces of some higher power who willl punish us and let the monster get us if we don't learn to keep in line. Flip side of that loving higher power stuff which is never talked about. Man, I love this site!!! Janice CB wrote: Janice,>>In my case, I really don't want to try again - Went through years ofhell and don't want to tempt fate. I'm satisfied with the knowledgethat I make an idiot out of myself, as well as feel like shit, everytime I drink, and I don't see that a topic to even consider. <<<<<<thanks for that - it's pretty much how I feel. One of the things I likeabout this list is that there seems to be room for all 'shades'....fromthe person who drank very little for a very short time, then had yearsof AA....... to someone who drank a lot, for a long time, and, as yousay, had years of hell , and now wants to remain abstinent.....which iswhere I would place myself......and all shades in between. Room forthose who can drink a little, and for those who wish to remainabstinent.It's just another thing that says to me that the 'one size fits all'approach of AA is not what I once believed it to be (and oh, how Ibelieved that! Tomboy - something you said, sorry can't rememberwhat.....about being so 'into' it all.....that was me. 16 years. Stillextremely messed up in many ways, but better 'within myself' if thatmakes sense)Really liked what you said - thank you.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 M - While in AA, I didn't believe that there could be "shades". I can't believe how closed down I was - My own brothers are examples of those shades. One drinks on occasion. He went through his wild days of getting into trouble when he drank, and knows that he has to be careful. But the point is he that when he does drink, there is no fear or guilt attached. The other brother hasn't had a drink in 11 or 12 years. I had discounted his "sobriety" since he doesn't go to AA (wasn't sucked in like I was) and smokes weed from time to time. I spoke with him yesterday about my decision and asked him what he has done over the years to remain sober. Again, there was no guilt or fear attached to his decision to stop drinking. What he said was that it was like putting a complete turkey dinner in front of him after just finishing one. He had had his fill of it. How simple it really is. How our minds turn abstinence into some kind of a monster in the closet or under the bed. In order to keep that monster away, AA says we must get into the good graces of some higher power who willl punish us and let the monster get us if we don't learn to keep in line. Flip side of that loving higher power stuff which is never talked about. Man, I love this site!!! Janice CB wrote: Janice,>>In my case, I really don't want to try again - Went through years ofhell and don't want to tempt fate. I'm satisfied with the knowledgethat I make an idiot out of myself, as well as feel like shit, everytime I drink, and I don't see that a topic to even consider. <<<<<<thanks for that - it's pretty much how I feel. One of the things I likeabout this list is that there seems to be room for all 'shades'....fromthe person who drank very little for a very short time, then had yearsof AA....... to someone who drank a lot, for a long time, and, as yousay, had years of hell , and now wants to remain abstinent.....which iswhere I would place myself......and all shades in between. Room forthose who can drink a little, and for those who wish to remainabstinent.It's just another thing that says to me that the 'one size fits all'approach of AA is not what I once believed it to be (and oh, how Ibelieved that! Tomboy - something you said, sorry can't rememberwhat.....about being so 'into' it all.....that was me. 16 years. Stillextremely messed up in many ways, but better 'within myself' if thatmakes sense)Really liked what you said - thank you.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 I haven't posted here in a while. I've been the 12-Step route for two years now. I've certainly " come to believe " that drinking is, for me, a bad idea. I certainly notice a difference in the way I feel and what I'm able to accomplish. I still go to three meetings/week. One of these is a professional association support group (a thinly disguised AA meeting, I mean, someone selects a passage from the Big Book for discussion). It's part and parcel of trying to get a professional license in a new state while " saddled " with a history of substance abuse treatment (I've been to rehab and stayed in a halfway house for four months). I've met some good people, and I've tried to be honest about my feelings toward the " Program, " without stepping on anyone's toes. I've actually found it pretty therapeutic. I state pretty bluntly that I don't currently have a sponsor, don't intend on getting a sponsor, and don't actively work any steps. The other two meetings, however, are simply a social outlet. I recognize this is a neurotic security blanket, but I still feel uneasy about letting these meetings go. One of these meetings is held at a treatment center within walking distance of my apartment. One of the current residents asked me who my sponsor was. I told him I didn't have one. From his body language, a casual observer might have guessed that I'd just confessed to being a serial murderer. He proceeded to tell me that HIS best thinking got him to A.A., and that he had to figure out that HIS way just doesn't work. This resident is on his fourth (at least) tour of duty at the same facility. This exchange underscores my dislike of 12-Step philosophy. I came to A.A. to stop drinking, not to be told how to live my life once alcohol was removed from the equation. Yet, the reverse has occurred. If I accept A.A. dogma, I'll be told to keep coming back no matter how long it takes. It seems like a case of the tail wagging the dog. If I leave A.A. I get the sense that a lot of people will be hoping I start drinking again with disastrous consequences, to justify their own decisions to remain. Anyway, hate to ramble, but just wanted to get some things off my chest. O. Boyce __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 I haven't posted here in a while. I've been the 12-Step route for two years now. I've certainly " come to believe " that drinking is, for me, a bad idea. I certainly notice a difference in the way I feel and what I'm able to accomplish. I still go to three meetings/week. One of these is a professional association support group (a thinly disguised AA meeting, I mean, someone selects a passage from the Big Book for discussion). It's part and parcel of trying to get a professional license in a new state while " saddled " with a history of substance abuse treatment (I've been to rehab and stayed in a halfway house for four months). I've met some good people, and I've tried to be honest about my feelings toward the " Program, " without stepping on anyone's toes. I've actually found it pretty therapeutic. I state pretty bluntly that I don't currently have a sponsor, don't intend on getting a sponsor, and don't actively work any steps. The other two meetings, however, are simply a social outlet. I recognize this is a neurotic security blanket, but I still feel uneasy about letting these meetings go. One of these meetings is held at a treatment center within walking distance of my apartment. One of the current residents asked me who my sponsor was. I told him I didn't have one. From his body language, a casual observer might have guessed that I'd just confessed to being a serial murderer. He proceeded to tell me that HIS best thinking got him to A.A., and that he had to figure out that HIS way just doesn't work. This resident is on his fourth (at least) tour of duty at the same facility. This exchange underscores my dislike of 12-Step philosophy. I came to A.A. to stop drinking, not to be told how to live my life once alcohol was removed from the equation. Yet, the reverse has occurred. If I accept A.A. dogma, I'll be told to keep coming back no matter how long it takes. It seems like a case of the tail wagging the dog. If I leave A.A. I get the sense that a lot of people will be hoping I start drinking again with disastrous consequences, to justify their own decisions to remain. Anyway, hate to ramble, but just wanted to get some things off my chest. O. Boyce __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 I haven't posted here in a while. I've been the 12-Step route for two years now. I've certainly " come to believe " that drinking is, for me, a bad idea. I certainly notice a difference in the way I feel and what I'm able to accomplish. I still go to three meetings/week. One of these is a professional association support group (a thinly disguised AA meeting, I mean, someone selects a passage from the Big Book for discussion). It's part and parcel of trying to get a professional license in a new state while " saddled " with a history of substance abuse treatment (I've been to rehab and stayed in a halfway house for four months). I've met some good people, and I've tried to be honest about my feelings toward the " Program, " without stepping on anyone's toes. I've actually found it pretty therapeutic. I state pretty bluntly that I don't currently have a sponsor, don't intend on getting a sponsor, and don't actively work any steps. The other two meetings, however, are simply a social outlet. I recognize this is a neurotic security blanket, but I still feel uneasy about letting these meetings go. One of these meetings is held at a treatment center within walking distance of my apartment. One of the current residents asked me who my sponsor was. I told him I didn't have one. From his body language, a casual observer might have guessed that I'd just confessed to being a serial murderer. He proceeded to tell me that HIS best thinking got him to A.A., and that he had to figure out that HIS way just doesn't work. This resident is on his fourth (at least) tour of duty at the same facility. This exchange underscores my dislike of 12-Step philosophy. I came to A.A. to stop drinking, not to be told how to live my life once alcohol was removed from the equation. Yet, the reverse has occurred. If I accept A.A. dogma, I'll be told to keep coming back no matter how long it takes. It seems like a case of the tail wagging the dog. If I leave A.A. I get the sense that a lot of people will be hoping I start drinking again with disastrous consequences, to justify their own decisions to remain. Anyway, hate to ramble, but just wanted to get some things off my chest. O. Boyce __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 One of these is a > professional association support group (a thinly > disguised AA meeting, I mean, someone selects a > passage from the Big Book for discussion). thats prqffesional cult indoctrination. and I've tried to be honest about my > feelings toward the " Program, " without stepping on > anyone's toes. why should that matter if your being honest? how does that hurt them for you say what you think is right? One of the current residents asked me who > my sponsor was. I told him I didn't have one. From > his body language, a casual observer might have > guessed that I'd just confessed to being a serial > murderer. He proceeded to tell me that HIS best > thinking got him to A.A., and that he had to figure > out that HIS way just doesn't work. This resident is > on his fourth (at least) tour of duty at the same > facility. maybe you should let him know he is still using his best thinking when he tells you waht to think and in no where in How it Works or steps does it say anything about a sponsor. or maybe you should just say next time he takes your inventory he can take it and shove it up his self righteous ass. > > This exchange underscores my dislike of 12-Step > philosophy. I came to A.A. to stop drinking, not to > be told how to live my life once alcohol was removed > from the equation. Yet, the reverse has occurred. If > I accept A.A. dogma, I'll be told to keep coming back > no matter how long it takes. It seems like a case of > the tail wagging the dog. If I leave A.A. I get the > sense that a lot of people will be hoping I start > drinking again with disastrous consequences, to > justify their own decisions to remain. worse still, you will never be allowed to believe you have or could ever recover to point you dont need them anymore and to say that in anyway could never be legitimate. they would want, or at least would belive you to fail, because they need that for their belief system to valididated. it is also projection of their fears for themselves without AA on to you. that is the power of AA, the fear it instills once they get you to believe you cant trust your own mind, as that resident tried to do to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 One of these is a > professional association support group (a thinly > disguised AA meeting, I mean, someone selects a > passage from the Big Book for discussion). thats prqffesional cult indoctrination. and I've tried to be honest about my > feelings toward the " Program, " without stepping on > anyone's toes. why should that matter if your being honest? how does that hurt them for you say what you think is right? One of the current residents asked me who > my sponsor was. I told him I didn't have one. From > his body language, a casual observer might have > guessed that I'd just confessed to being a serial > murderer. He proceeded to tell me that HIS best > thinking got him to A.A., and that he had to figure > out that HIS way just doesn't work. This resident is > on his fourth (at least) tour of duty at the same > facility. maybe you should let him know he is still using his best thinking when he tells you waht to think and in no where in How it Works or steps does it say anything about a sponsor. or maybe you should just say next time he takes your inventory he can take it and shove it up his self righteous ass. > > This exchange underscores my dislike of 12-Step > philosophy. I came to A.A. to stop drinking, not to > be told how to live my life once alcohol was removed > from the equation. Yet, the reverse has occurred. If > I accept A.A. dogma, I'll be told to keep coming back > no matter how long it takes. It seems like a case of > the tail wagging the dog. If I leave A.A. I get the > sense that a lot of people will be hoping I start > drinking again with disastrous consequences, to > justify their own decisions to remain. worse still, you will never be allowed to believe you have or could ever recover to point you dont need them anymore and to say that in anyway could never be legitimate. they would want, or at least would belive you to fail, because they need that for their belief system to valididated. it is also projection of their fears for themselves without AA on to you. that is the power of AA, the fear it instills once they get you to believe you cant trust your own mind, as that resident tried to do to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 One of these is a > professional association support group (a thinly > disguised AA meeting, I mean, someone selects a > passage from the Big Book for discussion). thats prqffesional cult indoctrination. and I've tried to be honest about my > feelings toward the " Program, " without stepping on > anyone's toes. why should that matter if your being honest? how does that hurt them for you say what you think is right? One of the current residents asked me who > my sponsor was. I told him I didn't have one. From > his body language, a casual observer might have > guessed that I'd just confessed to being a serial > murderer. He proceeded to tell me that HIS best > thinking got him to A.A., and that he had to figure > out that HIS way just doesn't work. This resident is > on his fourth (at least) tour of duty at the same > facility. maybe you should let him know he is still using his best thinking when he tells you waht to think and in no where in How it Works or steps does it say anything about a sponsor. or maybe you should just say next time he takes your inventory he can take it and shove it up his self righteous ass. > > This exchange underscores my dislike of 12-Step > philosophy. I came to A.A. to stop drinking, not to > be told how to live my life once alcohol was removed > from the equation. Yet, the reverse has occurred. If > I accept A.A. dogma, I'll be told to keep coming back > no matter how long it takes. It seems like a case of > the tail wagging the dog. If I leave A.A. I get the > sense that a lot of people will be hoping I start > drinking again with disastrous consequences, to > justify their own decisions to remain. worse still, you will never be allowed to believe you have or could ever recover to point you dont need them anymore and to say that in anyway could never be legitimate. they would want, or at least would belive you to fail, because they need that for their belief system to valididated. it is also projection of their fears for themselves without AA on to you. that is the power of AA, the fear it instills once they get you to believe you cant trust your own mind, as that resident tried to do to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 It's part > and parcel of trying to get a professional license in > a new state while " saddled " with a history of > substance abuse treatment http://groups.yahoo.com/group/12-Step_Coercion_Watch/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 It's part > and parcel of trying to get a professional license in > a new state while " saddled " with a history of > substance abuse treatment http://groups.yahoo.com/group/12-Step_Coercion_Watch/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 Subject: Re: Day One >>>>>> they would want, or at least would belive you to fail, because they need that for their belief system to valididated<<<<<<< (..............whether you drink or don't (in which case you are a 'dry drunk')..........) and *another * little piece in my deprogramming jigsaw........thank you....... M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 Subject: Re: Day One >>>>>> they would want, or at least would belive you to fail, because they need that for their belief system to valididated<<<<<<< (..............whether you drink or don't (in which case you are a 'dry drunk')..........) and *another * little piece in my deprogramming jigsaw........thank you....... M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 >>>>>>>>It seems like a case of the tail wagging the dog. <<<<<<<< love that! >>>>>>Anyway, hate to ramble, but just wanted to get some things off my chest.<<<<<<< please.........keep rambling: certainly helps me. best M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 >>>>>>>>It seems like a case of the tail wagging the dog. <<<<<<<< love that! >>>>>>Anyway, hate to ramble, but just wanted to get some things off my chest.<<<<<<< please.........keep rambling: certainly helps me. best M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 Janice, Again, thank you - just found another little piece of my 'deprogramming jigsaw' in my head slotted into place - >>>How our minds turn abstinence into some kind of a monster in the closet or under the bed. In order to keep that monster away, AA says we must get into the good graces of some higher power who willl punish us and let the monster get us if we don't learn to keep in line. Flip side of that loving higher power stuff which is never talked about. <<<<<< the flip side of the loving Higher Power.........that *so* makes sense to me; puts into words some unnamed thoughts that were floating about in my head - now I can name them and (try to ) file them away....as I say, another little 'step' (ouch, sorry) in the deprogramming process........... best M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.