Guest guest Posted December 13, 2001 Report Share Posted December 13, 2001 Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will "unfold" (boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more I am sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by such articles as "AA Kills" - I've been reading quite a bit about AA of late as well as messages on this site and the aadeprogramming site. What I have realized first and foremost is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I think I know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on solid research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong about the disease concept of "alcoholism" (I know - not supposed to use that word), but the more I read, the less sure I become. Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!! Janice Schneider La Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2001 Report Share Posted December 13, 2001 Welcome Janice, I'm glad you made it. :-) Talk soon, kiki > > Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will " unfold " (boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more I am sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by such articles as " AA Kills " - I've been reading quite a bit about AA of late as well as messages on this site and the aadeprogramming site. What I have realized first and foremost is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I think I know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on solid research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong about the disease concept of " alcoholism " (I know - not supposed to use that word), but the more I read, the less sure I become. > > Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!! > > > > > > Janice Schneider La > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2001 Report Share Posted December 13, 2001 Welcome Janice, I'm glad you made it. :-) Talk soon, kiki > > Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will " unfold " (boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more I am sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by such articles as " AA Kills " - I've been reading quite a bit about AA of late as well as messages on this site and the aadeprogramming site. What I have realized first and foremost is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I think I know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on solid research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong about the disease concept of " alcoholism " (I know - not supposed to use that word), but the more I read, the less sure I become. > > Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!! > > > > > > Janice Schneider La > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2001 Report Share Posted December 13, 2001 Welcome Janice, I'm glad you made it. :-) Talk soon, kiki > > Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will " unfold " (boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more I am sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by such articles as " AA Kills " - I've been reading quite a bit about AA of late as well as messages on this site and the aadeprogramming site. What I have realized first and foremost is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I think I know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on solid research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong about the disease concept of " alcoholism " (I know - not supposed to use that word), but the more I read, the less sure I become. > > Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!! > > > > > > Janice Schneider La > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2001 Report Share Posted December 13, 2001 being out of AA is easy. all it means is you learn to trust and respect yourself. two things which AA breaks down on Day 1 in AA. > > Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will " unfold " (boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more I am sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by such articles as " AA Kills " - I've been reading quite a bit about AA of late as well as messages on this site and the aadeprogramming site. What I have realized first and foremost is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I think I know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on solid research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong about the disease concept of " alcoholism " (I know - not supposed to use that word), but the more I read, the less sure I become. > > Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!! > > > > > > Janice Schneider La > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2001 Report Share Posted December 13, 2001 I never got to respond to your alcoholism quote, but, along with a congrats, I was hoping to now. The main reason I dislike the term alcoholic or alcoholism, is because of the baggage it brings with it. The ideas of powerlessness, disease, dependency, and uncontrollability, are intertwined with the usge of these terms in todays society. Look at the post from Kim B. ( I think), where some of her friends who weren't in the program believed in what it taught completely. In society there seems to be a double standard. Others who are not can label someone from a brief understanding, an alcoholic in desperate need of help. But when the table is turned on them, and a point can be made that they need help, they suddenly disagree. This is where the idea of " denial " comes in. Whenever someone disputes or disagrees with the program's beliefs, they acn instantaneously be labeled as an " alcoholic in denial " . This is horseshit. Maybe someone wanted to quit for a while, get there head and life straight, and stop drinking as much after they started back up. Jusat because they drink again does not mean that they can not stop, or are somehow controlled by a mythological disease. No, it means tha they want a couple of drinks. And there are not many people who will look at such facts as to how the person is doing compared to where they were before they quit for a while. Why? Because the belief that they have to eventually fall (which also came from the program) makes society believe the whole " once a pickle " BS. In other words, if you beleive that you are powerless over alcohol, that it has to make you life unmanageable, then it will. If you believe that you aren't powerless, and that you can manage your life, and still enjoy an occasional drink, then you most likely will. And if you do decide to get drunk again, does that mean that you have blown everything you have been working for? Only if you beleive that. Again congrats on breaking away. Just wanted to get my 2 cents in. Some may agree with me, some may not. This is how I feel, and how believe addictions work. The best thing about leaving AA, is that now you get to decide what you believe in. > >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Day One >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:31:02 -0800 (PST) > > >Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will " unfold " >(boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more I am >sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by such articles >as " AA Kills " - I've been reading quite a bit about AA of late as well as >messages on this site and the aadeprogramming site. What I have realized >first and foremost is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I >think I know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself >through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on solid >research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong about the disease >concept of " alcoholism " (I know - not supposed to use that word), but the >more I read, the less sure I become. > >Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!! > > > > > >Janice Schneider La > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2001 Report Share Posted December 13, 2001 I never got to respond to your alcoholism quote, but, along with a congrats, I was hoping to now. The main reason I dislike the term alcoholic or alcoholism, is because of the baggage it brings with it. The ideas of powerlessness, disease, dependency, and uncontrollability, are intertwined with the usge of these terms in todays society. Look at the post from Kim B. ( I think), where some of her friends who weren't in the program believed in what it taught completely. In society there seems to be a double standard. Others who are not can label someone from a brief understanding, an alcoholic in desperate need of help. But when the table is turned on them, and a point can be made that they need help, they suddenly disagree. This is where the idea of " denial " comes in. Whenever someone disputes or disagrees with the program's beliefs, they acn instantaneously be labeled as an " alcoholic in denial " . This is horseshit. Maybe someone wanted to quit for a while, get there head and life straight, and stop drinking as much after they started back up. Jusat because they drink again does not mean that they can not stop, or are somehow controlled by a mythological disease. No, it means tha they want a couple of drinks. And there are not many people who will look at such facts as to how the person is doing compared to where they were before they quit for a while. Why? Because the belief that they have to eventually fall (which also came from the program) makes society believe the whole " once a pickle " BS. In other words, if you beleive that you are powerless over alcohol, that it has to make you life unmanageable, then it will. If you believe that you aren't powerless, and that you can manage your life, and still enjoy an occasional drink, then you most likely will. And if you do decide to get drunk again, does that mean that you have blown everything you have been working for? Only if you beleive that. Again congrats on breaking away. Just wanted to get my 2 cents in. Some may agree with me, some may not. This is how I feel, and how believe addictions work. The best thing about leaving AA, is that now you get to decide what you believe in. > >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Day One >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:31:02 -0800 (PST) > > >Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will " unfold " >(boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more I am >sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by such articles >as " AA Kills " - I've been reading quite a bit about AA of late as well as >messages on this site and the aadeprogramming site. What I have realized >first and foremost is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I >think I know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself >through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on solid >research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong about the disease >concept of " alcoholism " (I know - not supposed to use that word), but the >more I read, the less sure I become. > >Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!! > > > > > >Janice Schneider La > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2001 Report Share Posted December 13, 2001 I never got to respond to your alcoholism quote, but, along with a congrats, I was hoping to now. The main reason I dislike the term alcoholic or alcoholism, is because of the baggage it brings with it. The ideas of powerlessness, disease, dependency, and uncontrollability, are intertwined with the usge of these terms in todays society. Look at the post from Kim B. ( I think), where some of her friends who weren't in the program believed in what it taught completely. In society there seems to be a double standard. Others who are not can label someone from a brief understanding, an alcoholic in desperate need of help. But when the table is turned on them, and a point can be made that they need help, they suddenly disagree. This is where the idea of " denial " comes in. Whenever someone disputes or disagrees with the program's beliefs, they acn instantaneously be labeled as an " alcoholic in denial " . This is horseshit. Maybe someone wanted to quit for a while, get there head and life straight, and stop drinking as much after they started back up. Jusat because they drink again does not mean that they can not stop, or are somehow controlled by a mythological disease. No, it means tha they want a couple of drinks. And there are not many people who will look at such facts as to how the person is doing compared to where they were before they quit for a while. Why? Because the belief that they have to eventually fall (which also came from the program) makes society believe the whole " once a pickle " BS. In other words, if you beleive that you are powerless over alcohol, that it has to make you life unmanageable, then it will. If you believe that you aren't powerless, and that you can manage your life, and still enjoy an occasional drink, then you most likely will. And if you do decide to get drunk again, does that mean that you have blown everything you have been working for? Only if you beleive that. Again congrats on breaking away. Just wanted to get my 2 cents in. Some may agree with me, some may not. This is how I feel, and how believe addictions work. The best thing about leaving AA, is that now you get to decide what you believe in. > >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Day One >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:31:02 -0800 (PST) > > >Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will " unfold " >(boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more I am >sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by such articles >as " AA Kills " - I've been reading quite a bit about AA of late as well as >messages on this site and the aadeprogramming site. What I have realized >first and foremost is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I >think I know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself >through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on solid >research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong about the disease >concept of " alcoholism " (I know - not supposed to use that word), but the >more I read, the less sure I become. > >Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!! > > > > > >Janice Schneider La > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2001 Report Share Posted December 14, 2001 OK Kikibaby - Is this just a coincidence or is our "higher power" at work here? Janice kikibaby67 wrote: Welcome Janice,I'm glad you made it. :-) Talk soon, kiki> > Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will "unfold" (boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more I am sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by such articles as "AA Kills" - I've been reading quite a bit about AA of late as well as messages on this site and the aadeprogramming site. What I have realized first and foremost is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I think I know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on solid research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong about the disease concept of "alcoholism" (I know - not supposed to use that word), but the more I read, the less sure I become. > > Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!! > > > > > > Janice Schneider La> > > > > > > ---------------------------------> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2001 Report Share Posted December 14, 2001 OK Kikibaby - Is this just a coincidence or is our "higher power" at work here? Janice kikibaby67 wrote: Welcome Janice,I'm glad you made it. :-) Talk soon, kiki> > Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will "unfold" (boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more I am sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by such articles as "AA Kills" - I've been reading quite a bit about AA of late as well as messages on this site and the aadeprogramming site. What I have realized first and foremost is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I think I know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on solid research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong about the disease concept of "alcoholism" (I know - not supposed to use that word), but the more I read, the less sure I become. > > Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!! > > > > > > Janice Schneider La> > > > > > > ---------------------------------> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2001 Report Share Posted December 14, 2001 OK Kikibaby - Is this just a coincidence or is our "higher power" at work here? Janice kikibaby67 wrote: Welcome Janice,I'm glad you made it. :-) Talk soon, kiki> > Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will "unfold" (boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more I am sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by such articles as "AA Kills" - I've been reading quite a bit about AA of late as well as messages on this site and the aadeprogramming site. What I have realized first and foremost is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I think I know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on solid research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong about the disease concept of "alcoholism" (I know - not supposed to use that word), but the more I read, the less sure I become. > > Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!! > > > > > > Janice Schneider La> > > > > > > ---------------------------------> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2001 Report Share Posted December 14, 2001 KEVIN - Thanks for the input. In my case, I really don't want to try again - Went through years of hell and don't want to tempt fate. I'm satisfied with the knowledge that I make an idiot out of myself, as well as feel like shit, every time I drink, and I don't see that a topic to even consider. Janice Gallagher wrote: I never got to respond to your alcoholism quote, but, along with a congrats, I was hoping to now. The main reason I dislike the term alcoholic or alcoholism, is because of the baggage it brings with it. The ideas of powerlessness, disease, dependency, and uncontrollability, are intertwined with the usge of these terms in todays society. Look at the post from Kim B. ( I think), where some of her friends who weren't in the program believed in what it taught completely. In society there seems to be a double standard. Others who are not can label someone from a brief understanding, an alcoholic in desperate need of help. But when the table is turned on them, and a point can be made that they need help, they suddenly disagree. This is where the idea of "denial" comes in. Whenever someone disputes or disagrees with the program's beliefs, they acn instantaneously be labeled as an "alcoholic in denial". This is horseshit. Maybe someone wanted to quit for a while, get there head and life straight, and stop drinking as much after they started back up. Jusat because they drink again does not mean that they can not stop, or are somehow controlled by a mythological disease. No, it means tha they want a couple of drinks. And there are not many people who will look at such facts as to how the person is doing compared to where they were before they quit for a while. Why? Because the belief that they have to eventually fall (which also came from the program) makes society believe the whole "once a pickle" BS. In other words, if you beleive that you are powerless over alcohol, that it has to make you life unmanageable, then it will. If you believe that you aren't powerless, and that you can manage your life, and still enjoy an occasional drink, then you most likely will. And if you do decide to get drunk again, does that mean that you have blown everything you have been working for? Only if you beleive that.Again congrats on breaking away. Just wanted to get my 2 cents in. Some may agree with me, some may not. This is how I feel, and how believe addictions work. The best thing about leaving AA, is that now you get to decide what you believe in.>>Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Day One>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:31:02 -0800 (PST)>>>Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will "unfold" >(boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more I am >sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by such articles >as "AA Kills" - I've been reading quite a bit about AA of late as well as >messages on this site and the aadeprogramming site. What I have realized >first and foremost is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I >think I know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself >through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on solid >research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong about the disease >concept of "alcoholism" (I know - not supposed to use that word), but the >more I read, the less sure I become.>>Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!!>>>>>>Janice Schneider La>>>>>>>---------------------------------> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2001 Report Share Posted December 14, 2001 KEVIN - Thanks for the input. In my case, I really don't want to try again - Went through years of hell and don't want to tempt fate. I'm satisfied with the knowledge that I make an idiot out of myself, as well as feel like shit, every time I drink, and I don't see that a topic to even consider. Janice Gallagher wrote: I never got to respond to your alcoholism quote, but, along with a congrats, I was hoping to now. The main reason I dislike the term alcoholic or alcoholism, is because of the baggage it brings with it. The ideas of powerlessness, disease, dependency, and uncontrollability, are intertwined with the usge of these terms in todays society. Look at the post from Kim B. ( I think), where some of her friends who weren't in the program believed in what it taught completely. In society there seems to be a double standard. Others who are not can label someone from a brief understanding, an alcoholic in desperate need of help. But when the table is turned on them, and a point can be made that they need help, they suddenly disagree. This is where the idea of "denial" comes in. Whenever someone disputes or disagrees with the program's beliefs, they acn instantaneously be labeled as an "alcoholic in denial". This is horseshit. Maybe someone wanted to quit for a while, get there head and life straight, and stop drinking as much after they started back up. Jusat because they drink again does not mean that they can not stop, or are somehow controlled by a mythological disease. No, it means tha they want a couple of drinks. And there are not many people who will look at such facts as to how the person is doing compared to where they were before they quit for a while. Why? Because the belief that they have to eventually fall (which also came from the program) makes society believe the whole "once a pickle" BS. In other words, if you beleive that you are powerless over alcohol, that it has to make you life unmanageable, then it will. If you believe that you aren't powerless, and that you can manage your life, and still enjoy an occasional drink, then you most likely will. And if you do decide to get drunk again, does that mean that you have blown everything you have been working for? Only if you beleive that.Again congrats on breaking away. Just wanted to get my 2 cents in. Some may agree with me, some may not. This is how I feel, and how believe addictions work. The best thing about leaving AA, is that now you get to decide what you believe in.>>Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Day One>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:31:02 -0800 (PST)>>>Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will "unfold" >(boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more I am >sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by such articles >as "AA Kills" - I've been reading quite a bit about AA of late as well as >messages on this site and the aadeprogramming site. What I have realized >first and foremost is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I >think I know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself >through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on solid >research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong about the disease >concept of "alcoholism" (I know - not supposed to use that word), but the >more I read, the less sure I become.>>Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!!>>>>>>Janice Schneider La>>>>>>>---------------------------------> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2001 Report Share Posted December 14, 2001 KEVIN - Thanks for the input. In my case, I really don't want to try again - Went through years of hell and don't want to tempt fate. I'm satisfied with the knowledge that I make an idiot out of myself, as well as feel like shit, every time I drink, and I don't see that a topic to even consider. Janice Gallagher wrote: I never got to respond to your alcoholism quote, but, along with a congrats, I was hoping to now. The main reason I dislike the term alcoholic or alcoholism, is because of the baggage it brings with it. The ideas of powerlessness, disease, dependency, and uncontrollability, are intertwined with the usge of these terms in todays society. Look at the post from Kim B. ( I think), where some of her friends who weren't in the program believed in what it taught completely. In society there seems to be a double standard. Others who are not can label someone from a brief understanding, an alcoholic in desperate need of help. But when the table is turned on them, and a point can be made that they need help, they suddenly disagree. This is where the idea of "denial" comes in. Whenever someone disputes or disagrees with the program's beliefs, they acn instantaneously be labeled as an "alcoholic in denial". This is horseshit. Maybe someone wanted to quit for a while, get there head and life straight, and stop drinking as much after they started back up. Jusat because they drink again does not mean that they can not stop, or are somehow controlled by a mythological disease. No, it means tha they want a couple of drinks. And there are not many people who will look at such facts as to how the person is doing compared to where they were before they quit for a while. Why? Because the belief that they have to eventually fall (which also came from the program) makes society believe the whole "once a pickle" BS. In other words, if you beleive that you are powerless over alcohol, that it has to make you life unmanageable, then it will. If you believe that you aren't powerless, and that you can manage your life, and still enjoy an occasional drink, then you most likely will. And if you do decide to get drunk again, does that mean that you have blown everything you have been working for? Only if you beleive that.Again congrats on breaking away. Just wanted to get my 2 cents in. Some may agree with me, some may not. This is how I feel, and how believe addictions work. The best thing about leaving AA, is that now you get to decide what you believe in.>>Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Day One>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:31:02 -0800 (PST)>>>Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will "unfold" >(boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more I am >sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by such articles >as "AA Kills" - I've been reading quite a bit about AA of late as well as >messages on this site and the aadeprogramming site. What I have realized >first and foremost is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I >think I know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself >through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on solid >research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong about the disease >concept of "alcoholism" (I know - not supposed to use that word), but the >more I read, the less sure I become.>>Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!!>>>>>>Janice Schneider La>>>>>>>---------------------------------> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2001 Report Share Posted December 14, 2001 Hey Janice, I just called a close friend and asked if I could " check-in " with him every day like a sponsor. It feels weird just living my life and not having to check everything by someone. He's just a friend but I want to make sure I don't get lonely and feel like I have to run back to AA for fellowship. I am still a bit uneasy in my new normal life but I have to say in all honesty. I am fine. Shit, I feel freaking good. No lie, AA helped me quit drinking for a while, but it also made me neurotic. Always confessing and feeling guilty that I wasn't doing the program right. Some of that probably has to do with the strict group I was in. I swear AA made me feel like a piece of shit. Always trying to please a sponsor or the group or whoever. There were some more relaxed late nite crazy groups, but the whole thing made me feel like there was something wrong with me. Shit, we all have problems, but I'm not insane. You have to give yourself some time away from those AA people. They have been calling me and emailing me, but I am not calling them back. Maybe in a while when I am thoroughly deprogrammed, but not before. Don't let yourself go either. I mean if there are emotional things you think you need to work on then do that. For so long AA people told me how therapy sucked and this and that. I just found out Kaiser has all kinds of seminars on self esteem and things like that. I'm gonna go. Shit, it's free. Be nice to yourself. You're a good person and you can live very happily without that whole cult thing. There are tons of people and groups of people doing all kinds of interesting things. Anyways, I just checking in and saying what's up. Take care. :-) kiki > > > > Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will " unfold " > (boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more > I am sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by > such articles as " AA Kills " - I've been reading quite a bit about AA > of late as well as messages on this site and the > aadeprogramming site. What I have realized first and foremost > is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I think I > know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself > through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on > solid research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong > about the disease concept of " alcoholism " (I know - not > supposed to use that word), but the more I read, the less sure I > become. > > > > Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Janice Schneider La > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2001 Report Share Posted December 14, 2001 Hey Janice, I just called a close friend and asked if I could " check-in " with him every day like a sponsor. It feels weird just living my life and not having to check everything by someone. He's just a friend but I want to make sure I don't get lonely and feel like I have to run back to AA for fellowship. I am still a bit uneasy in my new normal life but I have to say in all honesty. I am fine. Shit, I feel freaking good. No lie, AA helped me quit drinking for a while, but it also made me neurotic. Always confessing and feeling guilty that I wasn't doing the program right. Some of that probably has to do with the strict group I was in. I swear AA made me feel like a piece of shit. Always trying to please a sponsor or the group or whoever. There were some more relaxed late nite crazy groups, but the whole thing made me feel like there was something wrong with me. Shit, we all have problems, but I'm not insane. You have to give yourself some time away from those AA people. They have been calling me and emailing me, but I am not calling them back. Maybe in a while when I am thoroughly deprogrammed, but not before. Don't let yourself go either. I mean if there are emotional things you think you need to work on then do that. For so long AA people told me how therapy sucked and this and that. I just found out Kaiser has all kinds of seminars on self esteem and things like that. I'm gonna go. Shit, it's free. Be nice to yourself. You're a good person and you can live very happily without that whole cult thing. There are tons of people and groups of people doing all kinds of interesting things. Anyways, I just checking in and saying what's up. Take care. :-) kiki > > > > Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will " unfold " > (boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more > I am sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by > such articles as " AA Kills " - I've been reading quite a bit about AA > of late as well as messages on this site and the > aadeprogramming site. What I have realized first and foremost > is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I think I > know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself > through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on > solid research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong > about the disease concept of " alcoholism " (I know - not > supposed to use that word), but the more I read, the less sure I > become. > > > > Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Janice Schneider La > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2001 Report Share Posted December 14, 2001 > You have to give yourself some time away from those AA people. They > have been calling me and emailing me, but I am not calling them back. Have you tried putting garlic around your doorway and windows? LOL I've found the best way to make them go away is tell them the truth, that terrifies them. Devin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2001 Report Share Posted December 14, 2001 > You have to give yourself some time away from those AA people. They > have been calling me and emailing me, but I am not calling them back. Have you tried putting garlic around your doorway and windows? LOL I've found the best way to make them go away is tell them the truth, that terrifies them. Devin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2001 Report Share Posted December 14, 2001 > You have to give yourself some time away from those AA people. They > have been calling me and emailing me, but I am not calling them back. Have you tried putting garlic around your doorway and windows? LOL I've found the best way to make them go away is tell them the truth, that terrifies them. Devin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2001 Report Share Posted December 14, 2001 kikibaby - I know what you mean about not quitting cold turkey with respect to how we extricate ourselves from the program dogma. There are two women in the program who have become my friends, and I wouldn't want to give up those friendships. One was my one and only sponsee (who knew I balked at doing the steps, so it was really a farce), and the other happens to be a pediatric and drug and alcohol counsellor who is quite an open and interesting character. I gave up my two committments yesterday, one a speaker meeting close to where I work and the other at a rahab around where I live. I had those committments for almost a year, notwithstanding that the guard should have been changed for each committment nine months ago (every three months here). Interesting development - My co-sponsor (former??) has called me at least four times today (just got off phone again) as though I didn't tell her of my leaving AA (her sponser is my co-sponsor who has been unavailable for the past week and she uses me as a sounding board when necessary). In one of the calls she asked whether I thought it would be all right for her to call her manfriend about double dating with another AA couple tonight, a couple that both of them like. I kid you not. This woman is so AA indoctinated she can't do anything of any consequence whatsoever without checking with someone first to be sure she is making the right decision. Anyway, yes, it does seem strange being out of the program, but I have to remind myself that contrary to what AAers say, the seven years I had without AA from 1988 - 1994 does count for something. (Went to a rehab for a month in December of 1987). I seem to recall that I just didn't want to drink because the excessive drinking had given me extremely bad hangovers. My drinking problems started again in 1995 and continued through 1998. Went to a half-way house (Hazelden), and through no credit to Hazelden other than being away from home, finally conceded that I was never going to be able to drink "normally" again, and the drinking just had to stop. Up until being pressured to do the fourth step recently at the risk of being "fired" as a sponsee, that's what I thought "surrendering" meant in AA (not beliving in a higher power can and did make me that ingnorant to the truth). Boy, was I off. The big lie - Take what you need and leave the rest. It's more like - Take what you need and leave the rest until you have been around the program long enough to realize that you must and will follow the steps as written or forever be riddled with fear and guilt. Janice kikibaby67 wrote: Hey Janice,I just called a close friend and asked if I could "check-in" with him every day like a sponsor. It feels weird just living my life and not having to check everything by someone. He's just a friend but I want to make sure I don't get lonely and feel like I have to run back to AA for fellowship. I am still a bit uneasy in my new normal life but I have to say in all honesty. I am fine. Shit, I feel freaking good. No lie, AA helped me quit drinking for a while, but it also made me neurotic. Always confessing and feeling guilty that I wasn't doing the program right. Some of that probably has to do with the strict group I was in. I swear AA made me feel like a piece of shit. Always trying to please a sponsor or the group or whoever. There were some more relaxed late nite crazy groups, but the whole thing made me feel like there was something wrong with me. Shit, we all have problems, but I'm not insane. You have to give yourself some time away from those AA people. They have been calling me and emailing me, but I am not calling them back. Maybe in a while when I am thoroughly deprogrammed, but not before. Don't let yourself go either. I mean if there are emotional things you think you need to work on then do that. For so long AA people told me how therapy sucked and this and that. I just found out Kaiser has all kinds of seminars on self esteem and things like that. I'm gonna go. Shit, it's free. Be nice to yourself. You're a good person and you can live very happily without that whole cult thing. There are tons of people and groups of people doing all kinds of interesting things.Anyways, I just checking in and saying what's up. Take care. :-) kiki> > > > Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will "unfold" > (boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more > I am sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by > such articles as "AA Kills" - I've been reading quite a bit about AA > of late as well as messages on this site and the > aadeprogramming site. What I have realized first and foremost > is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I think I > know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself > through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on > solid research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong > about the disease concept of "alcoholism" (I know - not > supposed to use that word), but the more I read, the less sure I > become. > > > > Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Janice Schneider La> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2001 Report Share Posted December 14, 2001 kikibaby - I know what you mean about not quitting cold turkey with respect to how we extricate ourselves from the program dogma. There are two women in the program who have become my friends, and I wouldn't want to give up those friendships. One was my one and only sponsee (who knew I balked at doing the steps, so it was really a farce), and the other happens to be a pediatric and drug and alcohol counsellor who is quite an open and interesting character. I gave up my two committments yesterday, one a speaker meeting close to where I work and the other at a rahab around where I live. I had those committments for almost a year, notwithstanding that the guard should have been changed for each committment nine months ago (every three months here). Interesting development - My co-sponsor (former??) has called me at least four times today (just got off phone again) as though I didn't tell her of my leaving AA (her sponser is my co-sponsor who has been unavailable for the past week and she uses me as a sounding board when necessary). In one of the calls she asked whether I thought it would be all right for her to call her manfriend about double dating with another AA couple tonight, a couple that both of them like. I kid you not. This woman is so AA indoctinated she can't do anything of any consequence whatsoever without checking with someone first to be sure she is making the right decision. Anyway, yes, it does seem strange being out of the program, but I have to remind myself that contrary to what AAers say, the seven years I had without AA from 1988 - 1994 does count for something. (Went to a rehab for a month in December of 1987). I seem to recall that I just didn't want to drink because the excessive drinking had given me extremely bad hangovers. My drinking problems started again in 1995 and continued through 1998. Went to a half-way house (Hazelden), and through no credit to Hazelden other than being away from home, finally conceded that I was never going to be able to drink "normally" again, and the drinking just had to stop. Up until being pressured to do the fourth step recently at the risk of being "fired" as a sponsee, that's what I thought "surrendering" meant in AA (not beliving in a higher power can and did make me that ingnorant to the truth). Boy, was I off. The big lie - Take what you need and leave the rest. It's more like - Take what you need and leave the rest until you have been around the program long enough to realize that you must and will follow the steps as written or forever be riddled with fear and guilt. Janice kikibaby67 wrote: Hey Janice,I just called a close friend and asked if I could "check-in" with him every day like a sponsor. It feels weird just living my life and not having to check everything by someone. He's just a friend but I want to make sure I don't get lonely and feel like I have to run back to AA for fellowship. I am still a bit uneasy in my new normal life but I have to say in all honesty. I am fine. Shit, I feel freaking good. No lie, AA helped me quit drinking for a while, but it also made me neurotic. Always confessing and feeling guilty that I wasn't doing the program right. Some of that probably has to do with the strict group I was in. I swear AA made me feel like a piece of shit. Always trying to please a sponsor or the group or whoever. There were some more relaxed late nite crazy groups, but the whole thing made me feel like there was something wrong with me. Shit, we all have problems, but I'm not insane. You have to give yourself some time away from those AA people. They have been calling me and emailing me, but I am not calling them back. Maybe in a while when I am thoroughly deprogrammed, but not before. Don't let yourself go either. I mean if there are emotional things you think you need to work on then do that. For so long AA people told me how therapy sucked and this and that. I just found out Kaiser has all kinds of seminars on self esteem and things like that. I'm gonna go. Shit, it's free. Be nice to yourself. You're a good person and you can live very happily without that whole cult thing. There are tons of people and groups of people doing all kinds of interesting things.Anyways, I just checking in and saying what's up. Take care. :-) kiki> > > > Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will "unfold" > (boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more > I am sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by > such articles as "AA Kills" - I've been reading quite a bit about AA > of late as well as messages on this site and the > aadeprogramming site. What I have realized first and foremost > is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I think I > know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself > through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on > solid research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong > about the disease concept of "alcoholism" (I know - not > supposed to use that word), but the more I read, the less sure I > become. > > > > Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Janice Schneider La> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2001 Report Share Posted December 14, 2001 kikibaby - I know what you mean about not quitting cold turkey with respect to how we extricate ourselves from the program dogma. There are two women in the program who have become my friends, and I wouldn't want to give up those friendships. One was my one and only sponsee (who knew I balked at doing the steps, so it was really a farce), and the other happens to be a pediatric and drug and alcohol counsellor who is quite an open and interesting character. I gave up my two committments yesterday, one a speaker meeting close to where I work and the other at a rahab around where I live. I had those committments for almost a year, notwithstanding that the guard should have been changed for each committment nine months ago (every three months here). Interesting development - My co-sponsor (former??) has called me at least four times today (just got off phone again) as though I didn't tell her of my leaving AA (her sponser is my co-sponsor who has been unavailable for the past week and she uses me as a sounding board when necessary). In one of the calls she asked whether I thought it would be all right for her to call her manfriend about double dating with another AA couple tonight, a couple that both of them like. I kid you not. This woman is so AA indoctinated she can't do anything of any consequence whatsoever without checking with someone first to be sure she is making the right decision. Anyway, yes, it does seem strange being out of the program, but I have to remind myself that contrary to what AAers say, the seven years I had without AA from 1988 - 1994 does count for something. (Went to a rehab for a month in December of 1987). I seem to recall that I just didn't want to drink because the excessive drinking had given me extremely bad hangovers. My drinking problems started again in 1995 and continued through 1998. Went to a half-way house (Hazelden), and through no credit to Hazelden other than being away from home, finally conceded that I was never going to be able to drink "normally" again, and the drinking just had to stop. Up until being pressured to do the fourth step recently at the risk of being "fired" as a sponsee, that's what I thought "surrendering" meant in AA (not beliving in a higher power can and did make me that ingnorant to the truth). Boy, was I off. The big lie - Take what you need and leave the rest. It's more like - Take what you need and leave the rest until you have been around the program long enough to realize that you must and will follow the steps as written or forever be riddled with fear and guilt. Janice kikibaby67 wrote: Hey Janice,I just called a close friend and asked if I could "check-in" with him every day like a sponsor. It feels weird just living my life and not having to check everything by someone. He's just a friend but I want to make sure I don't get lonely and feel like I have to run back to AA for fellowship. I am still a bit uneasy in my new normal life but I have to say in all honesty. I am fine. Shit, I feel freaking good. No lie, AA helped me quit drinking for a while, but it also made me neurotic. Always confessing and feeling guilty that I wasn't doing the program right. Some of that probably has to do with the strict group I was in. I swear AA made me feel like a piece of shit. Always trying to please a sponsor or the group or whoever. There were some more relaxed late nite crazy groups, but the whole thing made me feel like there was something wrong with me. Shit, we all have problems, but I'm not insane. You have to give yourself some time away from those AA people. They have been calling me and emailing me, but I am not calling them back. Maybe in a while when I am thoroughly deprogrammed, but not before. Don't let yourself go either. I mean if there are emotional things you think you need to work on then do that. For so long AA people told me how therapy sucked and this and that. I just found out Kaiser has all kinds of seminars on self esteem and things like that. I'm gonna go. Shit, it's free. Be nice to yourself. You're a good person and you can live very happily without that whole cult thing. There are tons of people and groups of people doing all kinds of interesting things.Anyways, I just checking in and saying what's up. Take care. :-) kiki> > > > Officially, my first day out of AA. I have no idea what will "unfold" > (boy, do I hate that word), but the more I read about AA, the more > I am sure I made the right decision. I can't say I'm surprised by > such articles as "AA Kills" - I've been reading quite a bit about AA > of late as well as messages on this site and the > aadeprogramming site. What I have realized first and foremost > is that I need to keep my mouth shut here about what I think I > know to be true (because I have figured it out all by myself > through Janice's logic) as opposed to that which is based on > solid research, etc. I would never have thought I was wrong > about the disease concept of "alcoholism" (I know - not > supposed to use that word), but the more I read, the less sure I > become. > > > > Anyway, heeeeeeeeeere's Janice!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Janice Schneider La> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 Janice, >>In my case, I really don't want to try again - Went through years of hell and don't want to tempt fate. I'm satisfied with the knowledge that I make an idiot out of myself, as well as feel like shit, every time I drink, and I don't see that a topic to even consider. <<<<<< thanks for that - it's pretty much how I feel. One of the things I like about this list is that there seems to be room for all 'shades'....from the person who drank very little for a very short time, then had years of AA....... to someone who drank a lot, for a long time, and, as you say, had years of hell , and now wants to remain abstinent.....which is where I would place myself......and all shades in between. Room for those who can drink a little, and for those who wish to remain abstinent. It's just another thing that says to me that the 'one size fits all' approach of AA is not what I once believed it to be (and oh, how I believed that! Tomboy - something you said, sorry can't remember what.....about being so 'into' it all.....that was me. 16 years. Still extremely messed up in many ways, but better 'within myself' if that makes sense) Really liked what you said - thank you. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 Janice, >>In my case, I really don't want to try again - Went through years of hell and don't want to tempt fate. I'm satisfied with the knowledge that I make an idiot out of myself, as well as feel like shit, every time I drink, and I don't see that a topic to even consider. <<<<<< thanks for that - it's pretty much how I feel. One of the things I like about this list is that there seems to be room for all 'shades'....from the person who drank very little for a very short time, then had years of AA....... to someone who drank a lot, for a long time, and, as you say, had years of hell , and now wants to remain abstinent.....which is where I would place myself......and all shades in between. Room for those who can drink a little, and for those who wish to remain abstinent. It's just another thing that says to me that the 'one size fits all' approach of AA is not what I once believed it to be (and oh, how I believed that! Tomboy - something you said, sorry can't remember what.....about being so 'into' it all.....that was me. 16 years. Still extremely messed up in many ways, but better 'within myself' if that makes sense) Really liked what you said - thank you. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 Janice, >>In my case, I really don't want to try again - Went through years of hell and don't want to tempt fate. I'm satisfied with the knowledge that I make an idiot out of myself, as well as feel like shit, every time I drink, and I don't see that a topic to even consider. <<<<<< thanks for that - it's pretty much how I feel. One of the things I like about this list is that there seems to be room for all 'shades'....from the person who drank very little for a very short time, then had years of AA....... to someone who drank a lot, for a long time, and, as you say, had years of hell , and now wants to remain abstinent.....which is where I would place myself......and all shades in between. Room for those who can drink a little, and for those who wish to remain abstinent. It's just another thing that says to me that the 'one size fits all' approach of AA is not what I once believed it to be (and oh, how I believed that! Tomboy - something you said, sorry can't remember what.....about being so 'into' it all.....that was me. 16 years. Still extremely messed up in many ways, but better 'within myself' if that makes sense) Really liked what you said - thank you. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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