Re: Scared to death... Ray

[Guest guest]

Wow, Ray. I was going to edit the positive things out of your post

for you to focus on, but every single thing you said was negative.

You need to latch on to some positive things about this surgery (and

there are plenty), and focus on some of them, or you will indeed have

a rough ride, I'm convinced.

Why not check out some of the personal surgery experiences on this

info website I created at http://www.geocities.com/orthognathicinfo/

just click on PERSONAL SURGERY EXPERIENCES in the left hand side of

the screen. My own experience is posted there, along with a number of

other members' stories. There are also lots of useful tips and a ton

of links, if you want to find out more about this upcoming surgery.

I'm coming up on my 1 year anniversary for upper/lower/genio surgery,

and I'm also going to turn 48 years of age. I had a terrific and easy

recovery, and I think that's do-able, but it's very necessary to

think long-term about the benefits of this surgery (partly because

some aspects of the recovery take a long time). Like most others

here, I was pretty freaked out when I found out exactly what the

surgeon was going to do to me, half the things people talked about

here never happened to me, but the knowledge that they might helped

prepare me for the surgery. A positive attitude and a good sense of

humour go a long, long way.

I'm not trying to be mean here, but man, you really need to get a

list happening of positive things, and start substituting for those

negative thoughts.

Your fellow Canuck (and neighbour - in Ontario)

[Guest guest]

Wow, Ray. I was going to edit the positive things out of your post

for you to focus on, but every single thing you said was negative.

You need to latch on to some positive things about this surgery (and

there are plenty), and focus on some of them, or you will indeed have

a rough ride, I'm convinced.

Why not check out some of the personal surgery experiences on this

info website I created at http://www.geocities.com/orthognathicinfo/

just click on PERSONAL SURGERY EXPERIENCES in the left hand side of

the screen. My own experience is posted there, along with a number of

other members' stories. There are also lots of useful tips and a ton

of links, if you want to find out more about this upcoming surgery.

I'm coming up on my 1 year anniversary for upper/lower/genio surgery,

and I'm also going to turn 48 years of age. I had a terrific and easy

recovery, and I think that's do-able, but it's very necessary to

think long-term about the benefits of this surgery (partly because

some aspects of the recovery take a long time). Like most others

here, I was pretty freaked out when I found out exactly what the

surgeon was going to do to me, half the things people talked about

here never happened to me, but the knowledge that they might helped

prepare me for the surgery. A positive attitude and a good sense of

humour go a long, long way.

I'm not trying to be mean here, but man, you really need to get a

list happening of positive things, and start substituting for those

negative thoughts.

Your fellow Canuck (and neighbour - in Ontario)

[Guest guest]

Wow, Ray. I was going to edit the positive things out of your post

for you to focus on, but every single thing you said was negative.

You need to latch on to some positive things about this surgery (and

there are plenty), and focus on some of them, or you will indeed have

a rough ride, I'm convinced.

Why not check out some of the personal surgery experiences on this

info website I created at http://www.geocities.com/orthognathicinfo/

just click on PERSONAL SURGERY EXPERIENCES in the left hand side of

the screen. My own experience is posted there, along with a number of

other members' stories. There are also lots of useful tips and a ton

of links, if you want to find out more about this upcoming surgery.

I'm coming up on my 1 year anniversary for upper/lower/genio surgery,

and I'm also going to turn 48 years of age. I had a terrific and easy

recovery, and I think that's do-able, but it's very necessary to

think long-term about the benefits of this surgery (partly because

some aspects of the recovery take a long time). Like most others

here, I was pretty freaked out when I found out exactly what the

surgeon was going to do to me, half the things people talked about

here never happened to me, but the knowledge that they might helped

prepare me for the surgery. A positive attitude and a good sense of

humour go a long, long way.

I'm not trying to be mean here, but man, you really need to get a

list happening of positive things, and start substituting for those

negative thoughts.

Your fellow Canuck (and neighbour - in Ontario)

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the link, I've visited it this afternoon and, well,

eventhough I called my ortho this morning to fix an appointment to

cancel the surgery and learn of the consequences, I now feel I may

need to rethink my decision.

Sorry for being so negative about this, and honnest, I'm never

negative. Realistic at times, optimistic more often than

otherwise. I've been through a lot in the past 4 years (death of

both my parents, a bad car accident leaving my left arm and leg semi-

paralyzed, etc.) but for this particular matter, the obstacle seems

to be too big. For the car accident, I had a full year of various

treatment (chiro, rehab, accupuncture, etc.) At the end, I finally

regain all mobility, 80% of strenght. Hey, if that's all I have to

pay for this, the cost is rather cheap!

But what I'd like to hear is tangible things happening to people

with new mouth (well, I have no other way to describe it). My ortho

keeps telling me " You won't be the same man " , sure... can you

translate that in more precise statements, I asked. Of course, no

response I received. If I am to fully accept this commitment, I

need to know exact benefits. Food, for me, is not an issue. Since

I was 7, I learned that I will never eat normally again. It's not

like I will regain something I have lost, I just never had it

Also, I need to meet someone who has gone through this. I think

this will help erase my fears. Is there anyone in Montreal here ?

Ray

> Wow, Ray. I was going to edit the positive things out of your post

> for you to focus on, but every single thing you said was negative.

>

> You need to latch on to some positive things about this surgery

(and

> there are plenty), and focus on some of them, or you will indeed

have

> a rough ride, I'm convinced.

>

> Why not check out some of the personal surgery experiences on this

> info website I created at

http://www.geocities.com/orthognathicinfo/

> just click on PERSONAL SURGERY EXPERIENCES in the left hand side

of

> the screen. My own experience is posted there, along with a number

of

> other members' stories. There are also lots of useful tips and a

ton

> of links, if you want to find out more about this upcoming surgery.

>

> I'm coming up on my 1 year anniversary for upper/lower/genio

surgery,

> and I'm also going to turn 48 years of age. I had a terrific and

easy

> recovery, and I think that's do-able, but it's very necessary to

> think long-term about the benefits of this surgery (partly because

> some aspects of the recovery take a long time). Like most others

> here, I was pretty freaked out when I found out exactly what the

> surgeon was going to do to me, half the things people talked about

> here never happened to me, but the knowledge that they might

helped

> prepare me for the surgery. A positive attitude and a good sense

of

> humour go a long, long way.

>

> I'm not trying to be mean here, but man, you really need to get a

> list happening of positive things, and start substituting for

those

> negative thoughts.

>

> Your fellow Canuck (and neighbour - in Ontario)

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the link, I've visited it this afternoon and, well,

eventhough I called my ortho this morning to fix an appointment to

cancel the surgery and learn of the consequences, I now feel I may

need to rethink my decision.

Sorry for being so negative about this, and honnest, I'm never

negative. Realistic at times, optimistic more often than

otherwise. I've been through a lot in the past 4 years (death of

both my parents, a bad car accident leaving my left arm and leg semi-

paralyzed, etc.) but for this particular matter, the obstacle seems

to be too big. For the car accident, I had a full year of various

treatment (chiro, rehab, accupuncture, etc.) At the end, I finally

regain all mobility, 80% of strenght. Hey, if that's all I have to

pay for this, the cost is rather cheap!

But what I'd like to hear is tangible things happening to people

with new mouth (well, I have no other way to describe it). My ortho

keeps telling me " You won't be the same man " , sure... can you

translate that in more precise statements, I asked. Of course, no

response I received. If I am to fully accept this commitment, I

need to know exact benefits. Food, for me, is not an issue. Since

I was 7, I learned that I will never eat normally again. It's not

like I will regain something I have lost, I just never had it

Also, I need to meet someone who has gone through this. I think

this will help erase my fears. Is there anyone in Montreal here ?

Ray

> Wow, Ray. I was going to edit the positive things out of your post

> for you to focus on, but every single thing you said was negative.

>

> You need to latch on to some positive things about this surgery

(and

> there are plenty), and focus on some of them, or you will indeed

have

> a rough ride, I'm convinced.

>

> Why not check out some of the personal surgery experiences on this

> info website I created at

http://www.geocities.com/orthognathicinfo/

> just click on PERSONAL SURGERY EXPERIENCES in the left hand side

of

> the screen. My own experience is posted there, along with a number

of

> other members' stories. There are also lots of useful tips and a

ton

> of links, if you want to find out more about this upcoming surgery.

>

> I'm coming up on my 1 year anniversary for upper/lower/genio

surgery,

> and I'm also going to turn 48 years of age. I had a terrific and

easy

> recovery, and I think that's do-able, but it's very necessary to

> think long-term about the benefits of this surgery (partly because

> some aspects of the recovery take a long time). Like most others

> here, I was pretty freaked out when I found out exactly what the

> surgeon was going to do to me, half the things people talked about

> here never happened to me, but the knowledge that they might

helped

> prepare me for the surgery. A positive attitude and a good sense

of

> humour go a long, long way.

>

> I'm not trying to be mean here, but man, you really need to get a

> list happening of positive things, and start substituting for

those

> negative thoughts.

>

> Your fellow Canuck (and neighbour - in Ontario)

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Ray,

I must have missed something, if you want an honest no frills opinion,

email me. I had the upper and lower surgery on the 10th of July. The

Dr separated my upper palate into 3 sections (did you know that also

means he moves your nose out of the way) that's why all the nasal

problems.

Anyway, I was wired 4 weeks and was cut lose Wed. Right now I could not

tell you that I would do it over again as I told my Dr today. My splint

broke or fell off a little and has been dangling for a couple of days.

It is also in 3 pieces, so now I'm down to 1/3 of my mouth free. In my

personal opinion, the worst part was the breathing. I did not do my

homework and relied completely on my ortho and the surgeon. My ortho is

a friend whom I have known before she was an ortho so I trusted her

completely and honestly did not really want to know all the gory

details. I can tell them to you if you want to know but not publicly

here.

Now, everyone is different and since you've been through so much, this

surgery maybe a walk in the park for you. The worst thing for me was I

had my tonsils out at 26, I'm now 46. I'm very hyper and not a patient

person so that makes it worse. To top it off, my Dr cut me off of the

pain medicine today, which he probably should, but it kept me from going

stir crazy. I'm very active as I work out everyday in Taekwondo (except

Sunday) We have two horses we are currently saddle breaking which I

haven't road since the surgery and also run two used car lots here in

Nashville.

Anyway, the 4th day after the surgery I was mowing the yard (riding) and

by the 6th I was back working out. I would not spar or hold pads but

did everything else. I now look normal but vanity was not one of my

problems. I had a tooth broken in Taekwondo 4 years ago, the others

started moving and push the broken one straight out, which cause me to

see my friend who put the braces on and talked me into the surgery. I

was in braces for over 3 years!

Good luck in your decision, only you can know what's best for you!

Ronnie

Ray wrote:

> Thanks for the link, I've visited it this afternoon and, well,

> eventhough I called my ortho this morning to fix an appointment to

> cancel the surgery and learn of the consequences, I now feel I may

> need to rethink my decision.

>

> Sorry for being so negative about this, and honnest, I'm never

> negative. Realistic at times, optimistic more often than

> otherwise. I've been through a lot in the past 4 years (death of

> both my parents, a bad car accident leaving my left arm and leg semi-

> paralyzed, etc.) but for this particular matter, the obstacle seems

> to be too big. For the car accident, I had a full year of various

> treatment (chiro, rehab, accupuncture, etc.) At the end, I finally

> regain all mobility, 80% of strenght. Hey, if that's all I have to

> pay for this, the cost is rather cheap!

>

> But what I'd like to hear is tangible things happening to people

> with new mouth (well, I have no other way to describe it). My ortho

> keeps telling me " You won't be the same man " , sure... can you

> translate that in more precise statements, I asked. Of course, no

> response I received. If I am to fully accept this commitment, I

> need to know exact benefits. Food, for me, is not an issue. Since

> I was 7, I learned that I will never eat normally again. It's not

> like I will regain something I have lost, I just never had it

>

> Also, I need to meet someone who has gone through this. I think

> this will help erase my fears. Is there anyone in Montreal here ?

>

> Ray

>

>

> > Wow, Ray. I was going to edit the positive things out of your post

> > for you to focus on, but every single thing you said was negative.

> >

> > You need to latch on to some positive things about this surgery

> (and

> > there are plenty), and focus on some of them, or you will indeed

> have

> > a rough ride, I'm convinced.

> >

> > Why not check out some of the personal surgery experiences on this

> > info website I created at

> http://www.geocities.com/orthognathicinfo/

> > just click on PERSONAL SURGERY EXPERIENCES in the left hand side

> of

> > the screen. My own experience is posted there, along with a number

> of

> > other members' stories. There are also lots of useful tips and a

> ton

> > of links, if you want to find out more about this upcoming surgery.

> >

> > I'm coming up on my 1 year anniversary for upper/lower/genio

> surgery,

> > and I'm also going to turn 48 years of age. I had a terrific and

> easy

> > recovery, and I think that's do-able, but it's very necessary to

> > think long-term about the benefits of this surgery (partly because

> > some aspects of the recovery take a long time). Like most others

> > here, I was pretty freaked out when I found out exactly what the

> > surgeon was going to do to me, half the things people talked about

> > here never happened to me, but the knowledge that they might

> helped

> > prepare me for the surgery. A positive attitude and a good sense

> of

> > humour go a long, long way.

> >

> > I'm not trying to be mean here, but man, you really need to get a

> > list happening of positive things, and start substituting for

> those

> > negative thoughts.

> >

> > Your fellow Canuck (and neighbour - in Ontario)

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ronnie,

The first I met the surgeon, I almost lost consciousness when he got

to the part where " we will cut here, here and here. We will remove

a part from your hip and... " I was having cold sweats and so white

he stopped, offered a glass of something sugary (I'm having

hypoglycemia) and, 5 minutes later, he resumed with " that's how much

it's gonna cost you. You have insurance? "

So the nose thing, I didn't know. But knowing it, can I tell you,

doesn't feel me better...

[uSER HAS FAINTED]

Ok... I have one question for you (and the others) : He said (and

this I remember clearly) that he will move my upper jaw down 14mm.

Now, that's a hell of a long distance in my face. My question is :

my upper lip actually closes like 8 or 9 mm under my upper jaw's

CURRENT position. What will happen when it gets lowered by 14mm...

Will my upper lip be moved down as well? Will my glasses fall down

because the slope (inclination) of my nose will not be as it is now?

(humour..? Humm.. I'm feeling better than last night!) Since it's

comming for rather a deep place, will be gum be affected, do I have

higher risk of permanent nerves damage?

He also said (shortly before I passed out) that he was going to

enlarge my upper jaw. Now, again, some questions : There is just

that much skin on my face.. How can it be " enlarged " without me

looking like an overblown balloon??? How is my palate (is it the

right word for the top of my mouth?) can be enlarged?!?!

Finally, that's one big part of my current panick state : he said

(after I woke up..lol!) that he wishes to remove the 3 remaining

wisdom teeth. First, I objected because they are mine (I really do

use them to eat, at least, for now). If I let him proceed, how will

food (liquid) be able to flow into my throat if all the various

spaces left are filled with pieces of cloth for my wisdom teeth /

splint / God only knows what other bionic parts he'll put in my

mouth ?

I am sorry to bother you with that many questions folks but for now,

you're the best chances I have of maintaining my decision of what

seemed to be a reasonnable choice, 10 months ago.

T-H-A-N-K Y-O-U A-L-L-!

Ray

> Hey Ray,

> I must have missed something, if you want an honest no frills

opinion,

> email me. I had the upper and lower surgery on the 10th of July.

The

> Dr separated my upper palate into 3 sections (did you know that

also

> means he moves your nose out of the way) that's why all the nasal

> problems.

>

> Anyway, I was wired 4 weeks and was cut lose Wed. Right now I

could not

> tell you that I would do it over again as I told my Dr today. My

splint

> broke or fell off a little and has been dangling for a couple of

days.

> It is also in 3 pieces, so now I'm down to 1/3 of my mouth free.

In my

> personal opinion, the worst part was the breathing. I did not do

my

> homework and relied completely on my ortho and the surgeon. My

ortho is

> a friend whom I have known before she was an ortho so I trusted her

> completely and honestly did not really want to know all the gory

> details. I can tell them to you if you want to know but not

publicly

> here.

>

> Now, everyone is different and since you've been through so much,

this

> surgery maybe a walk in the park for you. The worst thing for me

was I

> had my tonsils out at 26, I'm now 46. I'm very hyper and not a

patient

> person so that makes it worse. To top it off, my Dr cut me off of

the

> pain medicine today, which he probably should, but it kept me from

going

> stir crazy. I'm very active as I work out everyday in Taekwondo

(except

> Sunday) We have two horses we are currently saddle breaking which I

> haven't road since the surgery and also run two used car lots here

in

> Nashville.

>

> Anyway, the 4th day after the surgery I was mowing the yard

(riding) and

> by the 6th I was back working out. I would not spar or hold pads

but

> did everything else. I now look normal but vanity was not one of

my

> problems. I had a tooth broken in Taekwondo 4 years ago, the

others

> started moving and push the broken one straight out, which cause

me to

> see my friend who put the braces on and talked me into the

surgery. I

> was in braces for over 3 years!

>

> Good luck in your decision, only you can know what's best for you!

>

> Ronnie

[Guest guest]

Ray, you're not doing better in terms of your posts here. Everything

is so, so negative. You live in la belle province, remember?

Nobody can give you " exact benefits " . This is not Walmart with a

money back guarantee. You go in knowing the risks (your surgeon and

ortho are responsible for informing you, and will likely make you

sign your informed consent), and you either accept that, or you turn

back.

I woke up from surgery feeling great and never looked back. Yes, I

had all of the annoying post-op things that most people complain

about except that I wasn't wired nor did I have a splint, both of

which are tougher to go through. Everyone here survived, mental

health intact. Some if not all of us are better people as a result of

meeting the challenge " head on " of dealing with the reality of

letting someone break our jaws and put them back together again, and

the months of slow recovery. My nose is right side up, my lips

intact, I got feeling back most everywhere, and I can talk and eat

again, better than before.

This surgery was a life-changing experience for me, as my ortho

promised. I am a different person, but much of that is because of

things I did outside of my recovery, working on my own self, through

reading, stress management, yoga practice, alternative therapies. I

asked many questions of all of my health care professionals

(especially those offering alternative therapies). The surgery was

something that charged me with looking at other aspects of my

physical and emotional being that could be improved. I approached it

with an overwhelmingly positive attitude, and the knowledge that I

was a partner in the outcome by how I dealt with it.

There is no way I would try to talk you into this surgery. Without a

radical change in the way you approach your life situations (and that

includes being honest with the professionals you deal with, who are

trying to help, as we are), you are going to have the same miserable

results you have been describing to us, more misery. Regardless of

whether you have the surgery or not, you need to take a good hard

look at that.

In the words of my now-retired family doctor " worry when you have

something to worry about " - you are grasping at possibilities that

may never happen to you, and even if they do, they are nothing to

fear. Think positive.

Good luck with your decision, Ray.

[Guest guest]

Ray, you're not doing better in terms of your posts here. Everything

is so, so negative. You live in la belle province, remember?

Nobody can give you " exact benefits " . This is not Walmart with a

money back guarantee. You go in knowing the risks (your surgeon and

ortho are responsible for informing you, and will likely make you

sign your informed consent), and you either accept that, or you turn

back.

I woke up from surgery feeling great and never looked back. Yes, I

had all of the annoying post-op things that most people complain

about except that I wasn't wired nor did I have a splint, both of

which are tougher to go through. Everyone here survived, mental

health intact. Some if not all of us are better people as a result of

meeting the challenge " head on " of dealing with the reality of

letting someone break our jaws and put them back together again, and

the months of slow recovery. My nose is right side up, my lips

intact, I got feeling back most everywhere, and I can talk and eat

again, better than before.

This surgery was a life-changing experience for me, as my ortho

promised. I am a different person, but much of that is because of

things I did outside of my recovery, working on my own self, through

reading, stress management, yoga practice, alternative therapies. I

asked many questions of all of my health care professionals

(especially those offering alternative therapies). The surgery was

something that charged me with looking at other aspects of my

physical and emotional being that could be improved. I approached it

with an overwhelmingly positive attitude, and the knowledge that I

was a partner in the outcome by how I dealt with it.

There is no way I would try to talk you into this surgery. Without a

radical change in the way you approach your life situations (and that

includes being honest with the professionals you deal with, who are

trying to help, as we are), you are going to have the same miserable

results you have been describing to us, more misery. Regardless of

whether you have the surgery or not, you need to take a good hard

look at that.

In the words of my now-retired family doctor " worry when you have

something to worry about " - you are grasping at possibilities that

may never happen to you, and even if they do, they are nothing to

fear. Think positive.

Good luck with your decision, Ray.

[Guest guest]

Ray,

First of all, I am a religious person, not over, but I am a christian

and do a lot of private praying. I think that more than anything else

helped me make my decision. I am 46 years old, male, and married to a

great swedish woman who happens to be a great cook also, so I had a lot

to give up (for awhile) Anyway, I trusted my orthodontist and surgeon.

I was lucky to have the ortho as a good friend and she had also done the

braces for my son. His teeth are almost perfect.

Anyway, if possible, stop worrying just for a second, if your religious,

ask God, and then go with that. All the other stuff will fall into

place and you and he will deal with it as it comes. The Dr's have done

this stuff so many times they can almost do it blind folded. Just stop

worrying so much and go with your gut feeling (which will be God talking

down there, ha!)

You'll always have us to talk to, whine too and give you moral support.

If you lived here in Tennessee I would invite you over and we could go

over it in detail.

Now some of the gross stuff, breathing was hard but you'll be fine,

Since your having the upper done, your going to think you had a mis

carriage because of the blood clots that come out of your nose. I had

to keep tissues with me constantly. some people prefer Q tips and I

used them too but I would (in the privacy of a stop light) roll up the

tissue and stick it up my nose to clean it all out, man if felt good!

Oh, in the recovery room I had a catheter you know where I didn't have

to get up to pee all the time! It was bad when she removed it as I peed

on me, her, the sheet, everywhere, Looked like old Faithful shooting

off, ha! Then she said " You may have trouble urinating since your

muscles have not been functioning for a couple of days " I looked at her

(with pee all over her) and just started laughing!!! It was too funny

to be embarrassing, plus I was full of Demerol!

Another reason for my surgery despite the physical part was boredom!

There has been a lot going on in my life, married in Jan 03, sold her

house, buying another, and finally selling my home (closing on the 29 of

Aug) but need something different. Well, this sure did it! haha!

Hope that helps you in a humorous way and the most important thing. Ask

yourself, do I want to do this? If the answer is yes, God and us will

take care of the rest!!!

Good luck buddy!

Ronnie

Ray wrote:

> Ronnie,

>

> The first I met the surgeon, I almost lost consciousness when he got

> to the part where " we will cut here, here and here. We will remove

> a part from your hip and... " I was having cold sweats and so white

> he stopped, offered a glass of something sugary (I'm having

> hypoglycemia) and, 5 minutes later, he resumed with " that's how much

> it's gonna cost you. You have insurance? "

>

> So the nose thing, I didn't know. But knowing it, can I tell you,

> doesn't feel me better...

>

> [uSER HAS FAINTED]

>

> Ok... I have one question for you (and the others) : He said (and

> this I remember clearly) that he will move my upper jaw down 14mm.

> Now, that's a hell of a long distance in my face. My question is :

> my upper lip actually closes like 8 or 9 mm under my upper jaw's

> CURRENT position. What will happen when it gets lowered by 14mm...

> Will my upper lip be moved down as well? Will my glasses fall down

> because the slope (inclination) of my nose will not be as it is now?

> (humour..? Humm.. I'm feeling better than last night!) Since it's

> comming for rather a deep place, will be gum be affected, do I have

> higher risk of permanent nerves damage?

>

> He also said (shortly before I passed out) that he was going to

> enlarge my upper jaw. Now, again, some questions : There is just

> that much skin on my face.. How can it be " enlarged " without me

> looking like an overblown balloon??? How is my palate (is it the

> right word for the top of my mouth?) can be enlarged?!?!

>

> Finally, that's one big part of my current panick state : he said

> (after I woke up..lol!) that he wishes to remove the 3 remaining

> wisdom teeth. First, I objected because they are mine (I really do

> use them to eat, at least, for now). If I let him proceed, how will

> food (liquid) be able to flow into my throat if all the various

> spaces left are filled with pieces of cloth for my wisdom teeth /

> splint / God only knows what other bionic parts he'll put in my

> mouth ?

>

> I am sorry to bother you with that many questions folks but for now,

> you're the best chances I have of maintaining my decision of what

> seemed to be a reasonnable choice, 10 months ago.

>

> T-H-A-N-K Y-O-U A-L-L-!

>

> Ray

>

>

> > Hey Ray,

> > I must have missed something, if you want an honest no frills

> opinion,

> > email me. I had the upper and lower surgery on the 10th of July.

> The

> > Dr separated my upper palate into 3 sections (did you know that

> also

> > means he moves your nose out of the way) that's why all the nasal

> > problems.

> >

> > Anyway, I was wired 4 weeks and was cut lose Wed. Right now I

> could not

> > tell you that I would do it over again as I told my Dr today. My

> splint

> > broke or fell off a little and has been dangling for a couple of

> days.

> > It is also in 3 pieces, so now I'm down to 1/3 of my mouth free.

> In my

> > personal opinion, the worst part was the breathing. I did not do

> my

> > homework and relied completely on my ortho and the surgeon. My

> ortho is

> > a friend whom I have known before she was an ortho so I trusted her

> > completely and honestly did not really want to know all the gory

> > details. I can tell them to you if you want to know but not

> publicly

> > here.

> >

> > Now, everyone is different and since you've been through so much,

> this

> > surgery maybe a walk in the park for you. The worst thing for me

> was I

> > had my tonsils out at 26, I'm now 46. I'm very hyper and not a

> patient

> > person so that makes it worse. To top it off, my Dr cut me off of

> the

> > pain medicine today, which he probably should, but it kept me from

> going

> > stir crazy. I'm very active as I work out everyday in Taekwondo

> (except

> > Sunday) We have two horses we are currently saddle breaking which I

> > haven't road since the surgery and also run two used car lots here

> in

> > Nashville.

> >

> > Anyway, the 4th day after the surgery I was mowing the yard

> (riding) and

> > by the 6th I was back working out. I would not spar or hold pads

> but

> > did everything else. I now look normal but vanity was not one of

> my

> > problems. I had a tooth broken in Taekwondo 4 years ago, the

> others

> > started moving and push the broken one straight out, which cause

> me to

> > see my friend who put the braces on and talked me into the

> surgery. I

> > was in braces for over 3 years!

> >

> > Good luck in your decision, only you can know what's best for you!

> >

> > Ronnie

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ray,

First of all, I am a religious person, not over, but I am a christian

and do a lot of private praying. I think that more than anything else

helped me make my decision. I am 46 years old, male, and married to a

great swedish woman who happens to be a great cook also, so I had a lot

to give up (for awhile) Anyway, I trusted my orthodontist and surgeon.

I was lucky to have the ortho as a good friend and she had also done the

braces for my son. His teeth are almost perfect.

Anyway, if possible, stop worrying just for a second, if your religious,

ask God, and then go with that. All the other stuff will fall into

place and you and he will deal with it as it comes. The Dr's have done

this stuff so many times they can almost do it blind folded. Just stop

worrying so much and go with your gut feeling (which will be God talking

down there, ha!)

You'll always have us to talk to, whine too and give you moral support.

If you lived here in Tennessee I would invite you over and we could go

over it in detail.

Now some of the gross stuff, breathing was hard but you'll be fine,

Since your having the upper done, your going to think you had a mis

carriage because of the blood clots that come out of your nose. I had

to keep tissues with me constantly. some people prefer Q tips and I

used them too but I would (in the privacy of a stop light) roll up the

tissue and stick it up my nose to clean it all out, man if felt good!

Oh, in the recovery room I had a catheter you know where I didn't have

to get up to pee all the time! It was bad when she removed it as I peed

on me, her, the sheet, everywhere, Looked like old Faithful shooting

off, ha! Then she said " You may have trouble urinating since your

muscles have not been functioning for a couple of days " I looked at her

(with pee all over her) and just started laughing!!! It was too funny

to be embarrassing, plus I was full of Demerol!

Another reason for my surgery despite the physical part was boredom!

There has been a lot going on in my life, married in Jan 03, sold her

house, buying another, and finally selling my home (closing on the 29 of

Aug) but need something different. Well, this sure did it! haha!

Hope that helps you in a humorous way and the most important thing. Ask

yourself, do I want to do this? If the answer is yes, God and us will

take care of the rest!!!

Good luck buddy!

Ronnie

Ray wrote:

> Ronnie,

>

> The first I met the surgeon, I almost lost consciousness when he got

> to the part where " we will cut here, here and here. We will remove

> a part from your hip and... " I was having cold sweats and so white

> he stopped, offered a glass of something sugary (I'm having

> hypoglycemia) and, 5 minutes later, he resumed with " that's how much

> it's gonna cost you. You have insurance? "

>

> So the nose thing, I didn't know. But knowing it, can I tell you,

> doesn't feel me better...

>

> [uSER HAS FAINTED]

>

> Ok... I have one question for you (and the others) : He said (and

> this I remember clearly) that he will move my upper jaw down 14mm.

> Now, that's a hell of a long distance in my face. My question is :

> my upper lip actually closes like 8 or 9 mm under my upper jaw's

> CURRENT position. What will happen when it gets lowered by 14mm...

> Will my upper lip be moved down as well? Will my glasses fall down

> because the slope (inclination) of my nose will not be as it is now?

> (humour..? Humm.. I'm feeling better than last night!) Since it's

> comming for rather a deep place, will be gum be affected, do I have

> higher risk of permanent nerves damage?

>

> He also said (shortly before I passed out) that he was going to

> enlarge my upper jaw. Now, again, some questions : There is just

> that much skin on my face.. How can it be " enlarged " without me

> looking like an overblown balloon??? How is my palate (is it the

> right word for the top of my mouth?) can be enlarged?!?!

>

> Finally, that's one big part of my current panick state : he said

> (after I woke up..lol!) that he wishes to remove the 3 remaining

> wisdom teeth. First, I objected because they are mine (I really do

> use them to eat, at least, for now). If I let him proceed, how will

> food (liquid) be able to flow into my throat if all the various

> spaces left are filled with pieces of cloth for my wisdom teeth /

> splint / God only knows what other bionic parts he'll put in my

> mouth ?

>

> I am sorry to bother you with that many questions folks but for now,

> you're the best chances I have of maintaining my decision of what

> seemed to be a reasonnable choice, 10 months ago.

>

> T-H-A-N-K Y-O-U A-L-L-!

>

> Ray

>

>

> > Hey Ray,

> > I must have missed something, if you want an honest no frills

> opinion,

> > email me. I had the upper and lower surgery on the 10th of July.

> The

> > Dr separated my upper palate into 3 sections (did you know that

> also

> > means he moves your nose out of the way) that's why all the nasal

> > problems.

> >

> > Anyway, I was wired 4 weeks and was cut lose Wed. Right now I

> could not

> > tell you that I would do it over again as I told my Dr today. My

> splint

> > broke or fell off a little and has been dangling for a couple of

> days.

> > It is also in 3 pieces, so now I'm down to 1/3 of my mouth free.

> In my

> > personal opinion, the worst part was the breathing. I did not do

> my

> > homework and relied completely on my ortho and the surgeon. My

> ortho is

> > a friend whom I have known before she was an ortho so I trusted her

> > completely and honestly did not really want to know all the gory

> > details. I can tell them to you if you want to know but not

> publicly

> > here.

> >

> > Now, everyone is different and since you've been through so much,

> this

> > surgery maybe a walk in the park for you. The worst thing for me

> was I

> > had my tonsils out at 26, I'm now 46. I'm very hyper and not a

> patient

> > person so that makes it worse. To top it off, my Dr cut me off of

> the

> > pain medicine today, which he probably should, but it kept me from

> going

> > stir crazy. I'm very active as I work out everyday in Taekwondo

> (except

> > Sunday) We have two horses we are currently saddle breaking which I

> > haven't road since the surgery and also run two used car lots here

> in

> > Nashville.

> >

> > Anyway, the 4th day after the surgery I was mowing the yard

> (riding) and

> > by the 6th I was back working out. I would not spar or hold pads

> but

> > did everything else. I now look normal but vanity was not one of

> my

> > problems. I had a tooth broken in Taekwondo 4 years ago, the

> others

> > started moving and push the broken one straight out, which cause

> me to

> > see my friend who put the braces on and talked me into the

> surgery. I

> > was in braces for over 3 years!

> >

> > Good luck in your decision, only you can know what's best for you!

> >

> > Ronnie

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I'm sorry if I sounded (and probably was) so negative, but that's

the way I feel for now. That's the reason I joined this group, to

help ease my inner pains and fears, to make a better decision.

I understand that being in a group of people who successfully

survived this experience is probably not the right place for me to

talk about pre op fear.

I don't think I will post again. If I do, it's going to be after

the surgery, if I ever agree to it.

Thanks again,

Ray

[Guest guest]

,

I'm sorry if I sounded (and probably was) so negative, but that's

the way I feel for now. That's the reason I joined this group, to

help ease my inner pains and fears, to make a better decision.

I understand that being in a group of people who successfully

survived this experience is probably not the right place for me to

talk about pre op fear.

I don't think I will post again. If I do, it's going to be after

the surgery, if I ever agree to it.

Thanks again,

Ray

[Guest guest]

,

I'm sorry if I sounded (and probably was) so negative, but that's

the way I feel for now. That's the reason I joined this group, to

help ease my inner pains and fears, to make a better decision.

I understand that being in a group of people who successfully

survived this experience is probably not the right place for me to

talk about pre op fear.

I don't think I will post again. If I do, it's going to be after

the surgery, if I ever agree to it.

Thanks again,

Ray

[Guest guest]

Ronnie,

I believe in God, that's for sure. But when I asked for guidance, I

received nothing. Nothing I recall, that is. He probably sent a

few signs, but I never noticed them.

> Oh, in the recovery room I had a catheter you know where I didn't

Why a catheter... ??? A jaw surgery is about the further away from

this region any surgery could be. 4 hours on an operating room + 1

hour to wake up doesn't make unable to urinate. Is this mandatory ?

Thanks for the offer for a nice chat in person, I'm currently

seeking people in my own city. The surgeon never agreed to let me

talk to his patients, because he said this would break the sceal of

privacy. He's right, but that's not helping me

Ray

[Guest guest]

Ronnie,

I believe in God, that's for sure. But when I asked for guidance, I

received nothing. Nothing I recall, that is. He probably sent a

few signs, but I never noticed them.

> Oh, in the recovery room I had a catheter you know where I didn't

Why a catheter... ??? A jaw surgery is about the further away from

this region any surgery could be. 4 hours on an operating room + 1

hour to wake up doesn't make unable to urinate. Is this mandatory ?

Thanks for the offer for a nice chat in person, I'm currently

seeking people in my own city. The surgeon never agreed to let me

talk to his patients, because he said this would break the sceal of

privacy. He's right, but that's not helping me

Ray

[Guest guest]

Ronnie,

I believe in God, that's for sure. But when I asked for guidance, I

received nothing. Nothing I recall, that is. He probably sent a

few signs, but I never noticed them.

> Oh, in the recovery room I had a catheter you know where I didn't

Why a catheter... ??? A jaw surgery is about the further away from

this region any surgery could be. 4 hours on an operating room + 1

hour to wake up doesn't make unable to urinate. Is this mandatory ?

Thanks for the offer for a nice chat in person, I'm currently

seeking people in my own city. The surgeon never agreed to let me

talk to his patients, because he said this would break the sceal of

privacy. He's right, but that's not helping me

Ray

[Guest guest]

The catheter was great, I didn't have to get up for anything. Remember,

you have the IV, the tube up your nose for breathing, and just basically

feel like shit (excuse the language) There are also the ice packs to

deal with which the nurses that attended to me were not real good at

keeping them on.

I was in a private room and had instructed everyone (family and friends)

to stay away as I just wanted to stay knocked out and then go home.

How bad is your jaw, I have pictures posted under the #2 section. My

underbite was horrible and I had a lot of popping. My jaw joints were

not too sore but I was told by my Dr that it would get worse.

I'm here for you which ever way you decide to go. I really don't think

there's anything to be frightened of because of the basic surgery, it's

the nasal thing and being on the liquid diet. Now I was REAL upset with

myself after I woke up wondering what kind of mess have I gotten myself

into, Gosh, I was pissed off at myself, now I understand that it was

the steroids and everything else in me making me feel that way.

For some strange reason, I feel like you should go ahead and do it, get

it over with, get back on this board and start whining and complaining

just like I did, ha!!!! Actually, I'm pretty stubborn and decided that

I wouldn't let this get me down. It did eventually, after about 3 weeks

of being wired shut and then I had an episode Wed when I thought I would

be rid of the splint and it's still here. I did lose a third of it and

now able to chew a little. My wife made fresh banana bread (without the

nuts) and I have sit here typing to you and ate a whole loaf with a big

cup of milk!

Again, whatever decision you make I'm sure will be the right one for

you!!!!

Ronnie

P.S. If you want some great and heart felt advice, email Cammie. I'm

sure she is an angel, a smart one at that!!!!

Ray wrote:

> Ronnie,

>

> I believe in God, that's for sure. But when I asked for guidance, I

> received nothing. Nothing I recall, that is. He probably sent a

> few signs, but I never noticed them.

>

> > Oh, in the recovery room I had a catheter you know where I didn't

>

> Why a catheter... ??? A jaw surgery is about the further away from

> this region any surgery could be. 4 hours on an operating room + 1

> hour to wake up doesn't make unable to urinate. Is this mandatory ?

>

> Thanks for the offer for a nice chat in person, I'm currently

> seeking people in my own city. The surgeon never agreed to let me

> talk to his patients, because he said this would break the sceal of

> privacy. He's right, but that's not helping me

>

> Ray

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The catheter was great, I didn't have to get up for anything. Remember,

you have the IV, the tube up your nose for breathing, and just basically

feel like shit (excuse the language) There are also the ice packs to

deal with which the nurses that attended to me were not real good at

keeping them on.

I was in a private room and had instructed everyone (family and friends)

to stay away as I just wanted to stay knocked out and then go home.

How bad is your jaw, I have pictures posted under the #2 section. My

underbite was horrible and I had a lot of popping. My jaw joints were

not too sore but I was told by my Dr that it would get worse.

I'm here for you which ever way you decide to go. I really don't think

there's anything to be frightened of because of the basic surgery, it's

the nasal thing and being on the liquid diet. Now I was REAL upset with

myself after I woke up wondering what kind of mess have I gotten myself

into, Gosh, I was pissed off at myself, now I understand that it was

the steroids and everything else in me making me feel that way.

For some strange reason, I feel like you should go ahead and do it, get

it over with, get back on this board and start whining and complaining

just like I did, ha!!!! Actually, I'm pretty stubborn and decided that

I wouldn't let this get me down. It did eventually, after about 3 weeks

of being wired shut and then I had an episode Wed when I thought I would

be rid of the splint and it's still here. I did lose a third of it and

now able to chew a little. My wife made fresh banana bread (without the

nuts) and I have sit here typing to you and ate a whole loaf with a big

cup of milk!

Again, whatever decision you make I'm sure will be the right one for

you!!!!

Ronnie

P.S. If you want some great and heart felt advice, email Cammie. I'm

sure she is an angel, a smart one at that!!!!

Ray wrote:

> Ronnie,

>

> I believe in God, that's for sure. But when I asked for guidance, I

> received nothing. Nothing I recall, that is. He probably sent a

> few signs, but I never noticed them.

>

> > Oh, in the recovery room I had a catheter you know where I didn't

>

> Why a catheter... ??? A jaw surgery is about the further away from

> this region any surgery could be. 4 hours on an operating room + 1

> hour to wake up doesn't make unable to urinate. Is this mandatory ?

>

> Thanks for the offer for a nice chat in person, I'm currently

> seeking people in my own city. The surgeon never agreed to let me

> talk to his patients, because he said this would break the sceal of

> privacy. He's right, but that's not helping me

>

> Ray

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ray, you're right, the point of this group is to support people who

are contemplating or recovering from orthognathic surgery, and I

think we do a good job at that. We also do a good job of helping

people through their pre-op fears. There's no reason why a person who

genuinely wants to be helped shouldn't be here.

We have all dealt with the pre-op jitters, but you are going way

overboard about it all, and after reading through all of your posts,

I come to the conclusion that you enjoy the attention you get from

being negative, whether you're doing it consciously or not. How do I

know this? I have a sister who plays these types of games too,

although she is not aware of it. I'm not fooled by it.

This surgery is not that big a deal. Yes, it's scary, but I've talked

to hundreds of people on these sites over the past 2 years, and seen

how they come to accept this by meeting others who have successfully

gone through the same experience.

I say all of this to you with the best possible intentions, and hope

you will accept the help that these generous and well-meaning people

are offering you here. There's no reason why a person who genuinely

wants to be helped shouldn't be here. Do you genuinely want to be

helped?

> ,

>

> I'm sorry if I sounded (and probably was) so negative, but that's

> the way I feel for now. That's the reason I joined this group, to

> help ease my inner pains and fears, to make a better decision.

>

> I understand that being in a group of people who successfully

> survived this experience is probably not the right place for me to

> talk about pre op fear.

>

> I don't think I will post again. If I do, it's going to be after

> the surgery, if I ever agree to it.

>

> Thanks again,

>

> Ray

[Guest guest]

Ray, you're right, the point of this group is to support people who

are contemplating or recovering from orthognathic surgery, and I

think we do a good job at that. We also do a good job of helping

people through their pre-op fears. There's no reason why a person who

genuinely wants to be helped shouldn't be here.

We have all dealt with the pre-op jitters, but you are going way

overboard about it all, and after reading through all of your posts,

I come to the conclusion that you enjoy the attention you get from

being negative, whether you're doing it consciously or not. How do I

know this? I have a sister who plays these types of games too,

although she is not aware of it. I'm not fooled by it.

This surgery is not that big a deal. Yes, it's scary, but I've talked

to hundreds of people on these sites over the past 2 years, and seen

how they come to accept this by meeting others who have successfully

gone through the same experience.

I say all of this to you with the best possible intentions, and hope

you will accept the help that these generous and well-meaning people

are offering you here. There's no reason why a person who genuinely

wants to be helped shouldn't be here. Do you genuinely want to be

helped?

> ,

>

> I'm sorry if I sounded (and probably was) so negative, but that's

> the way I feel for now. That's the reason I joined this group, to

> help ease my inner pains and fears, to make a better decision.

>

> I understand that being in a group of people who successfully

> survived this experience is probably not the right place for me to

> talk about pre op fear.

>

> I don't think I will post again. If I do, it's going to be after

> the surgery, if I ever agree to it.

>

> Thanks again,

>

> Ray

[Guest guest]

Ray, you're right, the point of this group is to support people who

are contemplating or recovering from orthognathic surgery, and I

think we do a good job at that. We also do a good job of helping

people through their pre-op fears. There's no reason why a person who

genuinely wants to be helped shouldn't be here.

We have all dealt with the pre-op jitters, but you are going way

overboard about it all, and after reading through all of your posts,

I come to the conclusion that you enjoy the attention you get from

being negative, whether you're doing it consciously or not. How do I

know this? I have a sister who plays these types of games too,

although she is not aware of it. I'm not fooled by it.

This surgery is not that big a deal. Yes, it's scary, but I've talked

to hundreds of people on these sites over the past 2 years, and seen

how they come to accept this by meeting others who have successfully

gone through the same experience.

I say all of this to you with the best possible intentions, and hope

you will accept the help that these generous and well-meaning people

are offering you here. There's no reason why a person who genuinely

wants to be helped shouldn't be here. Do you genuinely want to be

helped?

> ,

>

> I'm sorry if I sounded (and probably was) so negative, but that's

> the way I feel for now. That's the reason I joined this group, to

> help ease my inner pains and fears, to make a better decision.

>

> I understand that being in a group of people who successfully

> survived this experience is probably not the right place for me to

> talk about pre op fear.

>

> I don't think I will post again. If I do, it's going to be after

> the surgery, if I ever agree to it.

>

> Thanks again,

>

> Ray

[Guest guest]

,

I though a great deal before answering this last post of yours,

because the one thing I don't want to start is an argument with

you / this group. But one thing that struck me almost immediately

is the speed at which you judged me. 2 days and then, boom, I'm

manipulative and enjoying the attention I get from being completely

mad about a surgery. Let me assure you, that's not the case. I am

a shy person who doesn't enjoy any attention (I avoid social

gathering at all costs!). I tend to stay low and work things by

myself first. If unsuccessfull, I call for help. To conclude this,

next time you have something like that to say about me (or your

sister), please, do so in a private e-mail.

English is not my native language, so perhaps what I said got lost

in the translation. I'm doing my best, but sometimes, it's not that

easy.

This being said, I read everything that's posted for the passed week

or so (9-10 days), and digged a little deeper (starting around

october 2002). A year full of posts to read is a full time job!

My initial conclusion is that it's possible to get through this, but

I will need support. I'm working on this. I may do my recovery up

north with my sister-in-law.

I've met with my ortho this morning. He said that the surgery is no

longer mandatory! Yippee! He explained to me the benefits &

requirements of the surgery, with much more details he did the

first time. He also explained to me the drawbacks of not having

this done (and benefits... out of braces in time for Xmas!!)

He also said, and on that I agree with him, you and everyone else

here, that I'm far from ready to accept a 6 months recovery. Which

he believes will be the case for me, knowing my prior medical

history (accidents, blood and heart, etc.) and current state of

mind. He also suggested that we stop the treatment for now, put a

wire behing my teeth (retainer in English I think) and that once my

mind is set, I could simply go back, have the necessary stuff

implanted in my mouth, and take it where we leave it last time,

starting with a surgery + 12 months of braces. And, should I choose

to get the surgery now, I'd still have 10-12 months of braces + 5~10

years of behind wires (retainers). So I am not loosing anything by

stopping now.

We also talked about complications, side effects, about what's worst

he has seen since he's practicing (20 years). He talked about a guy

with permanent numbness in several small areas under his chin and

cheeks. That's all. He never saw permanent paralysis of facial

expression. THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR! One fear down, one less

to go

I'm meeting with his prefered surgeon on September the 4th. In the

meantime, I also got the phone number of another surgeon, that might

be able to operate on me and not have my mouth shut thight with

wires. Since I'm claustrophobic, that's a REAL plus ! One more

thing out of my mind!

He finally explained why a splint is installed. I look in the

dictionnary but couldn't find anything worthfull. Now I know. I

guess that makes speaking a lot more difficult. He did not show me

any (he had all sorts of plastic models but this one he did not

have). Does this cover the entire upper roof (the space on top of

the tongue)? If so, in case one gets sick (throwing up..??), can

this be removed easily? He also talked about that, and having to

cut the wires. He said I could have a patch for nausea, so

basically, it doesn't worth to worry about that.

So that's it for now! I think these are good news. Although I'm

still not convinced to have this surgery, I will take my final

decision after meeting with the surgeon and speaking with a patient

who have had this surgery done before. That would be the most

advisable thing to do, because worrying for now is only counter-

productive.

Thanks again for the link (the webpage you've suggested), I read it

all a couple of times

Ray

> Ray, you're right, the point of this group is to support people

who

> are contemplating or recovering from orthognathic surgery, and I

> think we do a good job at that. We also do a good job of helping

> people through their pre-op fears. There's no reason why a person

who

> genuinely wants to be helped shouldn't be here.

>

> We have all dealt with the pre-op jitters, but you are going way

> overboard about it all, and after reading through all of your

posts,

> I come to the conclusion that you enjoy the attention you get from

> being negative, whether you're doing it consciously or not. How do

I

> know this? I have a sister who plays these types of games too,

> although she is not aware of it. I'm not fooled by it.

>

> This surgery is not that big a deal. Yes, it's scary, but I've

talked

> to hundreds of people on these sites over the past 2 years, and

seen

> how they come to accept this by meeting others who have

successfully

> gone through the same experience.

>

> I say all of this to you with the best possible intentions, and

hope

> you will accept the help that these generous and well-meaning

people

> are offering you here. There's no reason why a person who

genuinely

> wants to be helped shouldn't be here. Do you genuinely want to be

> helped?

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I though a great deal before answering this last post of yours,

because the one thing I don't want to start is an argument with

you / this group. But one thing that struck me almost immediately

is the speed at which you judged me. 2 days and then, boom, I'm

manipulative and enjoying the attention I get from being completely

mad about a surgery. Let me assure you, that's not the case. I am

a shy person who doesn't enjoy any attention (I avoid social

gathering at all costs!). I tend to stay low and work things by

myself first. If unsuccessfull, I call for help. To conclude this,

next time you have something like that to say about me (or your

sister), please, do so in a private e-mail.

English is not my native language, so perhaps what I said got lost

in the translation. I'm doing my best, but sometimes, it's not that

easy.

This being said, I read everything that's posted for the passed week

or so (9-10 days), and digged a little deeper (starting around

october 2002). A year full of posts to read is a full time job!

My initial conclusion is that it's possible to get through this, but

I will need support. I'm working on this. I may do my recovery up

north with my sister-in-law.

I've met with my ortho this morning. He said that the surgery is no

longer mandatory! Yippee! He explained to me the benefits &

requirements of the surgery, with much more details he did the

first time. He also explained to me the drawbacks of not having

this done (and benefits... out of braces in time for Xmas!!)

He also said, and on that I agree with him, you and everyone else

here, that I'm far from ready to accept a 6 months recovery. Which

he believes will be the case for me, knowing my prior medical

history (accidents, blood and heart, etc.) and current state of

mind. He also suggested that we stop the treatment for now, put a

wire behing my teeth (retainer in English I think) and that once my

mind is set, I could simply go back, have the necessary stuff

implanted in my mouth, and take it where we leave it last time,

starting with a surgery + 12 months of braces. And, should I choose

to get the surgery now, I'd still have 10-12 months of braces + 5~10

years of behind wires (retainers). So I am not loosing anything by

stopping now.

We also talked about complications, side effects, about what's worst

he has seen since he's practicing (20 years). He talked about a guy

with permanent numbness in several small areas under his chin and

cheeks. That's all. He never saw permanent paralysis of facial

expression. THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR! One fear down, one less

to go

I'm meeting with his prefered surgeon on September the 4th. In the

meantime, I also got the phone number of another surgeon, that might

be able to operate on me and not have my mouth shut thight with

wires. Since I'm claustrophobic, that's a REAL plus ! One more

thing out of my mind!

He finally explained why a splint is installed. I look in the

dictionnary but couldn't find anything worthfull. Now I know. I

guess that makes speaking a lot more difficult. He did not show me

any (he had all sorts of plastic models but this one he did not

have). Does this cover the entire upper roof (the space on top of

the tongue)? If so, in case one gets sick (throwing up..??), can

this be removed easily? He also talked about that, and having to

cut the wires. He said I could have a patch for nausea, so

basically, it doesn't worth to worry about that.

So that's it for now! I think these are good news. Although I'm

still not convinced to have this surgery, I will take my final

decision after meeting with the surgeon and speaking with a patient

who have had this surgery done before. That would be the most

advisable thing to do, because worrying for now is only counter-

productive.

Thanks again for the link (the webpage you've suggested), I read it

all a couple of times

Ray

> Ray, you're right, the point of this group is to support people

who

> are contemplating or recovering from orthognathic surgery, and I

> think we do a good job at that. We also do a good job of helping

> people through their pre-op fears. There's no reason why a person

who

> genuinely wants to be helped shouldn't be here.

>

> We have all dealt with the pre-op jitters, but you are going way

> overboard about it all, and after reading through all of your

posts,

> I come to the conclusion that you enjoy the attention you get from

> being negative, whether you're doing it consciously or not. How do

I

> know this? I have a sister who plays these types of games too,

> although she is not aware of it. I'm not fooled by it.

>

> This surgery is not that big a deal. Yes, it's scary, but I've

talked

> to hundreds of people on these sites over the past 2 years, and

seen

> how they come to accept this by meeting others who have

successfully

> gone through the same experience.

>

> I say all of this to you with the best possible intentions, and

hope

> you will accept the help that these generous and well-meaning

people

> are offering you here. There's no reason why a person who

genuinely

> wants to be helped shouldn't be here. Do you genuinely want to be

> helped?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ray, you sound like a completely different person today, one who has

found the answers he seeks, and I'm very happy for you. Your

professionals are the best possible sources for your own personal

situation, of course, and I'm glad that you were able to ask the

right questions.

I am not expert on the splint, but my understanding is that it does

cover the roof of the mouth (upper palate) and is wired into the

upper braces, remaining until the bones heal, which is typically 6-8

weeks. No, it is not particularly easy to clean, but if you need it,

you'll have to put up with that. It's not easy to clean even without

a splint as one's opening is usually limited. At one week post-op, I

could barely fit my baby finger in. That was plenty, though, for

breathing and eating (and spraying gently with a waterpik to clean).

Not everyone is left with a splint post-op, so it is best to ask your

surgeon. I asked mine what the criteria was, whether I would have one

post-op, and received this answer: " if I have to do an upper palate

segmentation (to widen), you'll have the splint post-op. Otherwise,

we use it during the operation (to line both jaws up) and then throw

it away " . He would not know until he had performed the mock surgery

on my molds, which he took one week before the surgery. To my

delight, I had no splint post-op.

If your situation does not require surgery to correct, that is better

still, and you should consider yourself fortunate indeed.

By the way, I think your English is excellent, much better than my

French after 6 years in junior and high school. It's a pity we don't

have more opportunity to use it in Canada.

Best regards,