Grumpy Me! (Cappie): was- bananas & other high carb food

[Guest guest]

Hi Cappie,

Boy, you're on a roll today!

I too get frustrated trying to help folks that just want to " eat the foods

they always have " & still have good diabetes control (or wonder why they

don't).

IMHO, it takes a mindset change & we can't make others do that (I know, I've

tried with dismal results!!!). They have to come to the conclusion

themselves that they are willing to make some " changes " to get the job done.

With some

this takes the onset of one or more complications.

After " excellent, non-diabetic bg levels " are achieved, then's the time to

start experimenting with the " carby stuff " , although my own experience is that

I'm not interested in it any more.

Boy, I've been grumpy in the afternoons lately!

Down off soap-box now!

, T2, dx'ed 4/98, controlling with LC & Supplements

Average fasting bg 100mg/dl, last HbA1c 5.6%

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>> I think Gretchen is right that all most newly diagnosed diabetics seem

to want is recipes so they can continue to eat as they always have...

....

.... People give up their time & go to a lot of effort to try to direct the

newly diagnosed. I for one have become quite burnt out by having that

effort either ignored or thrown in the face, It seems to me to not to

be worthwhile any longer.

cappie <<<

[Guest guest]

Everybody has to make their own balance between

1) how much their own body can handle carbs

2) what they like to eat

3) how much medication they want to take

4) how low they want their blood glucose to be

In 3 months I got Gil to an A1c of 5.3 from 10.3 on a somewhat

low-carb diet and 5mg Glyburide twice a day. He is able to eat

limited amounts of carby food on that regimen. One slice of

pumpernickel (really black really grainy bread), limited fruits except

tropical (1/3 not-overripe banana with other food seems OK for him),

small glass of milk, small amounts of whole wheat pasta, one slice of

Ezekiel bread. Not every meal or even every day, but on a regular

basis. My guess is he's on an average of 100g carbs/day, often lower,

sometimes a bit higher, especially when we go out to eat. So that's

quite a bit above Bernstein's recommendations but it is a diet he is

fairly comfortable on. And he's losing weight. We are eating

different things of course. A lot more nuts and nut butter, for

example. A lot more veggies, cooked and raw. More eggs and cheese.

I haven't started trying to bake with the strange new ingredients, but

he likes the sugar free ice cream and it seems to agree with him.

At that point we could have tried to cut the carbs more and cut the

drugs. But right now we are trying Metformin instead and we're seeing

how the initial dose goes with the diet he's on.

I think you all are not admitting how much effect your advice really

has. I wasn't aware, and certainly the diabetic friend I lost a

couple of years ago wasn't aware, that certain " white " items are as

bad for diabetics as sugar is. She thought mashed potatoes were

suitable food for diabetics, as were bananas and whole wheat bread.

So even if people don't totally follow the diet you want them to, I

would not conclude that your time is wasted.

Even if they don't listen at the time, it is information that can come

into their mind again later when they decide they do want better blood

glucose control or want to cut back the drugs.

Plus I wouldn't feel my time is wasted if they make some changes. For

resistant people I'm not sure that a few changes might lead to more

changes and make a good starting point. For example, forget the

starch at the evening meal. For me, it was what a meal had in it:

meat, starch, veggies. Now it is almost always only meat and veggies.

Have them try an open-faced sandwich, preferably made with a fairly

low carb or high fiber bread of some sort. If they are cereal eaters,

point them to the high bran or high flax cereals. Teach them to read

the labels. It may not be what you eat, but oh so much better than

what the average American eats.

Some people like to learn everything about a subject all at once.

Other people seem to get overwhelmed by the amount they feel they need

to know to even get started. For the latter type, starting slower may

be the only way to succeed in the end. Like cleaning the house --

start with a small part of it and ignore the entire house.

I also think everything we can do to communicate with non-diabetic

people that the average American diet is dangerous to their health. I

truly believe that it is not good even for those of us who may not be

prone to type 2 diabetes. I'm not diabetic and no one in my family

has had diabetes of either type and I feel very good on this diet and

I'm losing some weight. My carb intake are a bit higher because I try

to avoid artificial sugars and am not such a fan of that black bread,

but basically I eat what my husband eats.

[Guest guest]

Everybody has to make their own balance between

1) how much their own body can handle carbs

2) what they like to eat

3) how much medication they want to take

4) how low they want their blood glucose to be

In 3 months I got Gil to an A1c of 5.3 from 10.3 on a somewhat

low-carb diet and 5mg Glyburide twice a day. He is able to eat

limited amounts of carby food on that regimen. One slice of

pumpernickel (really black really grainy bread), limited fruits except

tropical (1/3 not-overripe banana with other food seems OK for him),

small glass of milk, small amounts of whole wheat pasta, one slice of

Ezekiel bread. Not every meal or even every day, but on a regular

basis. My guess is he's on an average of 100g carbs/day, often lower,

sometimes a bit higher, especially when we go out to eat. So that's

quite a bit above Bernstein's recommendations but it is a diet he is

fairly comfortable on. And he's losing weight. We are eating

different things of course. A lot more nuts and nut butter, for

example. A lot more veggies, cooked and raw. More eggs and cheese.

I haven't started trying to bake with the strange new ingredients, but

he likes the sugar free ice cream and it seems to agree with him.

At that point we could have tried to cut the carbs more and cut the

drugs. But right now we are trying Metformin instead and we're seeing

how the initial dose goes with the diet he's on.

I think you all are not admitting how much effect your advice really

has. I wasn't aware, and certainly the diabetic friend I lost a

couple of years ago wasn't aware, that certain " white " items are as

bad for diabetics as sugar is. She thought mashed potatoes were

suitable food for diabetics, as were bananas and whole wheat bread.

So even if people don't totally follow the diet you want them to, I

would not conclude that your time is wasted.

Even if they don't listen at the time, it is information that can come

into their mind again later when they decide they do want better blood

glucose control or want to cut back the drugs.

Plus I wouldn't feel my time is wasted if they make some changes. For

resistant people I'm not sure that a few changes might lead to more

changes and make a good starting point. For example, forget the

starch at the evening meal. For me, it was what a meal had in it:

meat, starch, veggies. Now it is almost always only meat and veggies.

Have them try an open-faced sandwich, preferably made with a fairly

low carb or high fiber bread of some sort. If they are cereal eaters,

point them to the high bran or high flax cereals. Teach them to read

the labels. It may not be what you eat, but oh so much better than

what the average American eats.

Some people like to learn everything about a subject all at once.

Other people seem to get overwhelmed by the amount they feel they need

to know to even get started. For the latter type, starting slower may

be the only way to succeed in the end. Like cleaning the house --

start with a small part of it and ignore the entire house.

I also think everything we can do to communicate with non-diabetic

people that the average American diet is dangerous to their health. I

truly believe that it is not good even for those of us who may not be

prone to type 2 diabetes. I'm not diabetic and no one in my family

has had diabetes of either type and I feel very good on this diet and

I'm losing some weight. My carb intake are a bit higher because I try

to avoid artificial sugars and am not such a fan of that black bread,

but basically I eat what my husband eats.

[Guest guest]

--- In diabetes_int , " judith_nicholls " > Plus I

wouldn't feel my time is wasted if they make some changes. For

> resistant people I'm not sure that a few changes might lead to more

> changes and make a good starting point.

I agree, and you make a number of very good points, Judith. Even

though I wanted to know everything at once when I was diagnosed, it

took time to ease into a low carb lifestyle, and I was resistant to

information that seemed contrary to what my doctor was telling me.

It took time for me to gradually reduce the carbs and quit worrying

so much about the fat, and to trust my meter and the blood tests that

showed my lipids improving drastically. I think I may have even

accused one or two people on this list of being zealots for LC

diets. I started on a diet of about 120 g. of carbs a day, and low

fat. I got pretty good control that way, but gradually I found it

easier to go lower on carbs and actually had to add fats back in to

keep from losing too much weight. Now I think I eat about 50-75 g.

of carbs a day, but I always try to err on the low side. Everyone

has to find their own way.

Cappie, I do share your frustration as I talk to new people and want

to almost overwhelm them with what I've learned over time, but

sometimes learning needs to be a gradual process. After all, most of

us have been inundated with bad information for a long time. Even my

new stepfather, at 85, has started modifying his diet and has been

able to cut back on medication as he cuts back on carbs, after 2+

years of " preaching " to him. What made a difference was when we'd go

out to dinner together, and he'd eat what he was used to eating

(bread, potatoes, etc) and I'd eat low carb and then we'd both test.

And I thought he'd never change!!

Christy, waving an olive branch...

T2

dx 11/29/01, A1C 10.7

Now D & E controlled, A1c 5.1

[Guest guest]

It would be nice if the manufacturers of our foods

would use the ADA portion sizes instead of their own.

My biggest problem, before going to the dietitian, was

thinking that I was only eating one serving. The

package would tell me that a whole muffin is one

serving. But, when I got the Diabetic diet, I found

out I had been eating two servings of carbs. So, now I

am reading things more carefully and making sure to

stay as close to the natural state as possible. Lots

of fresh veggies and fruits. That is another thing,

why are pieces of fruit so large? I like to have a few

(3-4) slices of banana(used for sweetner instead of

Splenda or Sweet N Low) with my cereal. But most

bananas I find are about 8 inches long. That is too

much for one sitting and then I end up either not

eating it or having to waste it. Vons used to sell

what they called juniors. They were the right size for

my purposes. Now, I can't find them. The peaches,

apples and many other fruits that I like are also too

big for one serving. I have asked where I shop if they

could please get smaller ones, but they tell me they

can't.

Oh well, I will just have to put up with it.

Happy Thursday,

______________________________________________________

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/

[Guest guest]

It would be nice if the manufacturers of our foods

would use the ADA portion sizes instead of their own.

My biggest problem, before going to the dietitian, was

thinking that I was only eating one serving. The

package would tell me that a whole muffin is one

serving. But, when I got the Diabetic diet, I found

out I had been eating two servings of carbs. So, now I

am reading things more carefully and making sure to

stay as close to the natural state as possible. Lots

of fresh veggies and fruits. That is another thing,

why are pieces of fruit so large? I like to have a few

(3-4) slices of banana(used for sweetner instead of

Splenda or Sweet N Low) with my cereal. But most

bananas I find are about 8 inches long. That is too

much for one sitting and then I end up either not

eating it or having to waste it. Vons used to sell

what they called juniors. They were the right size for

my purposes. Now, I can't find them. The peaches,

apples and many other fruits that I like are also too

big for one serving. I have asked where I shop if they

could please get smaller ones, but they tell me they

can't.

Oh well, I will just have to put up with it.

Happy Thursday,

______________________________________________________

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/

[Guest guest]

Helen recently suggested slicing up a banana and freezing the slices and

eating them one a time, frozen. You might try that.

Vicki

Re: Re: Grumpy Me! (Cappie): was- bananas &

other high carb food

> It would be nice if the manufacturers of our foods

> would use the ADA portion sizes instead of their own.

> My biggest problem, before going to the dietitian, was

> thinking that I was only eating one serving. The

> package would tell me that a whole muffin is one

> serving. But, when I got the Diabetic diet, I found

> out I had been eating two servings of carbs. So, now I

> am reading things more carefully and making sure to

> stay as close to the natural state as possible. Lots

> of fresh veggies and fruits. That is another thing,

> why are pieces of fruit so large? I like to have a few

> (3-4) slices of banana(used for sweetner instead of

> Splenda or Sweet N Low) with my cereal. But most

> bananas I find are about 8 inches long. That is too

> much for one sitting and then I end up either not

> eating it or having to waste it. Vons used to sell

> what they called juniors. They were the right size for

> my purposes. Now, I can't find them. The peaches,

> apples and many other fruits that I like are also too

> big for one serving. I have asked where I shop if they

> could please get smaller ones, but they tell me they

> can't.

>

> Oh well, I will just have to put up with it.

>

> Happy Thursday,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 09:50 PM 9/8/05, whimsy2 wrote:

>Helen recently suggested slicing up a banana and freezing the slices and

>eating them one a time, frozen. You might try that.

along with the cereal and muffin and whatever other high-carb food the ADA

is touting as a good diet for diabetics? I'm beginning to understand how

Cappie feels.

I'm still all for a class action lawsuit against the ADA for recommending a

diabetic diet guaranteed to cause too-high BG's and diabetic complications

down the road. Can you do that to an organization?

[Guest guest]

At 09:50 PM 9/8/05, whimsy2 wrote:

>Helen recently suggested slicing up a banana and freezing the slices and

>eating them one a time, frozen. You might try that.

along with the cereal and muffin and whatever other high-carb food the ADA

is touting as a good diet for diabetics? I'm beginning to understand how

Cappie feels.

I'm still all for a class action lawsuit against the ADA for recommending a

diabetic diet guaranteed to cause too-high BG's and diabetic complications

down the road. Can you do that to an organization?