Re: Bad Horror Movie

[Guest guest]

I know a few people in the " program " who told me they were

goaded into talking about mastubation and sexual fantasies by a

" kind and caring " sponsor. Being told the old AA line " you are

only as sick as your secrets, " this is not only a load of crap, but

also incredibly dehumanizing.

There is some information that we have every right to keep

absolutely private, and are under no obligation to tell anyone, not

being allowed to have private thoughts is not being allowed to be

a person. Would a sponsor be interested in hearing about

mastubation because he/she is concerned about you drinking

again if you don't talk about it? NO! It is because this person is a

sick, twisted pervert.

Devin

> Got to tell this one!

> Back in the mid 80's when I was into NA/AA, a few us formed

what we called " Bill W's surf riders association " . That was when I

was living in Melbourne, (south east Australia). To go for a surf,

when you lived there, meant a 2 hour drive down the coast. (No

guesses the topic of conversation in the Kombi van on the way

there.......and back). Recovery! Anyway, one of our surf

" fellowship " members met a girl who was a mormon. He was

suddenly forbidden from surfing on Sundays and all sorts of

other rediculous restrictions. He changed from being a regular

sort of bloke into a pretty intense one. He stopped swearing,

talking filth, etc, etc, which is pretty hard for your standard Aussie

bloke to do, I can tell you. LOL! One trip, he seemed a bit quiet.

On gentle probing, as good concerned fellow AA/NA members

will do, we established that he had " busted' the previous night.

Apparently, after abstaining for 9 months he had masterbated,

after seing his girlfreind the previous night! They were due to

marry shortly. As a point of order here, his girlfriend was one

sexy and amazingly attractive girl!. Anyway, we listened with

concern, and empathy. (Isn't the word " empathy " abused in the

rooms? LOL!) Now the point of the story is that after 9 long

months, doing religiously correct things with his sex-Godess,

and being a very good boy, keeping his hands to himself, )wel

not even THAT!) and the contents of his underpants in check,

only to " bust " ............one can only imagine how fucking excellent

that bust must have been!

> I think I'd " bust " a second time, straight afterwards, just for

good measure! (probably my diesease talking here)

> I dont know what became of my surfing mate I know he left

NA/AA, and was tithing 10% of his bucks to the church.

> I hope he still surfs.

>

> Barnsey

[Guest guest]

I know a few people in the " program " who told me they were

goaded into talking about mastubation and sexual fantasies by a

" kind and caring " sponsor. Being told the old AA line " you are

only as sick as your secrets, " this is not only a load of crap, but

also incredibly dehumanizing.

There is some information that we have every right to keep

absolutely private, and are under no obligation to tell anyone, not

being allowed to have private thoughts is not being allowed to be

a person. Would a sponsor be interested in hearing about

mastubation because he/she is concerned about you drinking

again if you don't talk about it? NO! It is because this person is a

sick, twisted pervert.

Devin

> Got to tell this one!

> Back in the mid 80's when I was into NA/AA, a few us formed

what we called " Bill W's surf riders association " . That was when I

was living in Melbourne, (south east Australia). To go for a surf,

when you lived there, meant a 2 hour drive down the coast. (No

guesses the topic of conversation in the Kombi van on the way

there.......and back). Recovery! Anyway, one of our surf

" fellowship " members met a girl who was a mormon. He was

suddenly forbidden from surfing on Sundays and all sorts of

other rediculous restrictions. He changed from being a regular

sort of bloke into a pretty intense one. He stopped swearing,

talking filth, etc, etc, which is pretty hard for your standard Aussie

bloke to do, I can tell you. LOL! One trip, he seemed a bit quiet.

On gentle probing, as good concerned fellow AA/NA members

will do, we established that he had " busted' the previous night.

Apparently, after abstaining for 9 months he had masterbated,

after seing his girlfreind the previous night! They were due to

marry shortly. As a point of order here, his girlfriend was one

sexy and amazingly attractive girl!. Anyway, we listened with

concern, and empathy. (Isn't the word " empathy " abused in the

rooms? LOL!) Now the point of the story is that after 9 long

months, doing religiously correct things with his sex-Godess,

and being a very good boy, keeping his hands to himself, )wel

not even THAT!) and the contents of his underpants in check,

only to " bust " ............one can only imagine how fucking excellent

that bust must have been!

> I think I'd " bust " a second time, straight afterwards, just for

good measure! (probably my diesease talking here)

> I dont know what became of my surfing mate I know he left

NA/AA, and was tithing 10% of his bucks to the church.

> I hope he still surfs.

>

> Barnsey

[Guest guest]

I remember being at a big book study where we started at the beginning of

the big book , read a bit each week, discussed it and continued with this

process until we finished the first 164 pages of the BB (the big treat at

the end of that routine was being allowed to read a story at the end of

the 164 pages, a newbie usually got to choose the story we would read and

discuss), this particular week we were on page 69 (and for my sponsee

Caroline's benefit that is where sex is discussed) and after the reading

of course we were supposed to discuss our deepest darkest naughty sex

secrets. We went around the table , one guy talking about what a sex

whore he was when he was drinking and of course the next person had to

top that story and on and on around the room. Finally we came to a

newcomer (who was very obviously feeling very uncomfortable and

pressured) started to share. He was 40ish and had never had a sexual

experience, while telling this he was visibly shaken and obviously

disturbed by feeling he had to share something that was so personal. I

felt sick to my stomach when this happened, I could not believe that this

was going on in an AA meeting.

He was an individual that was deeply sensitive, kind , lonely and

extremely vulnerable. He has since stopped going to " the

program " and although I see him quite frequently in my place of

business , we have never really discussed his leaving (he still is

nervous around me, as I obviously was a witness to this) AA. I am glad

that he has but I suspect that there hasn't been any closure for him and

I do think that he was buying into the whole cult gig.

If something like that ever happened in another organisation (well at

least here in Canada) that would be called sexual harrassment and

criminal charges could be pressed.

kisses

Tom Boy

At 09:02 PM 26/11/01 +0000, you wrote:

I know a few people in the

" program " who told me they were

goaded into talking about mastubation and sexual fantasies by a

" kind and caring " sponsor. Being told the old AA line " you

are

only as sick as your secrets, " this is not only a load of crap, but

also incredibly dehumanizing.

There is some information that we have every right to keep

absolutely private, and are under no obligation to tell anyone, not

being allowed to have private thoughts is not being allowed to be

a person. Would a sponsor be interested in hearing about

mastubation because he/she is concerned about you drinking

again if you don't talk about it? NO! It is because this person is a

sick, twisted pervert.

Devin

> Got to tell this one!

> Back in the mid 80's when I was into NA/AA, a few us formed

what we called " Bill W's surf riders association " . That was

when I

was living in Melbourne, (south east Australia). To go for a surf,

when you lived there, meant a 2 hour drive down the coast. (No

guesses the topic of conversation in the Kombi van on the way

there.......and back). Recovery! Anyway, one of our

surf

" fellowship " members met a girl who was a mormon. He was

suddenly forbidden from surfing on Sundays and all sorts of

other rediculous restrictions. He changed from being a regular

sort of bloke into a pretty intense one. He stopped swearing,

talking filth, etc, etc, which is pretty hard for your standard

Aussie

bloke to do, I can tell you. LOL! One trip, he seemed a bit quiet.

On gentle probing, as good concerned fellow AA/NA members

will do, we established that he had " busted' the previous

night.

Apparently, after abstaining for 9 months he had masterbated,

after seing his girlfreind the previous night! They were due to

marry shortly. As a point of order here, his girlfriend was one

sexy and amazingly attractive girl!. Anyway, we listened with

concern, and empathy. (Isn't the word " empathy " abused in the

rooms? LOL!) Now the point of the story is that after 9 long

months, doing religiously correct things with his sex-Godess,

and being a very good boy, keeping his hands to himself, )wel

not even THAT!) and the contents of his underpants in check,

only to " bust " ............one can only imagine how fucking

excellent

that bust must have been!

> I think I'd " bust " a second time, straight

afterwards, just for

good measure! (probably my diesease talking here)

> I dont know what became of my surfing mate I know he left

NA/AA, and was tithing 10% of his bucks to the church.

> I hope he still surfs.

>

> Barnsey

[Guest guest]

I remember being at a big book study where we started at the beginning of

the big book , read a bit each week, discussed it and continued with this

process until we finished the first 164 pages of the BB (the big treat at

the end of that routine was being allowed to read a story at the end of

the 164 pages, a newbie usually got to choose the story we would read and

discuss), this particular week we were on page 69 (and for my sponsee

Caroline's benefit that is where sex is discussed) and after the reading

of course we were supposed to discuss our deepest darkest naughty sex

secrets. We went around the table , one guy talking about what a sex

whore he was when he was drinking and of course the next person had to

top that story and on and on around the room. Finally we came to a

newcomer (who was very obviously feeling very uncomfortable and

pressured) started to share. He was 40ish and had never had a sexual

experience, while telling this he was visibly shaken and obviously

disturbed by feeling he had to share something that was so personal. I

felt sick to my stomach when this happened, I could not believe that this

was going on in an AA meeting.

He was an individual that was deeply sensitive, kind , lonely and

extremely vulnerable. He has since stopped going to " the

program " and although I see him quite frequently in my place of

business , we have never really discussed his leaving (he still is

nervous around me, as I obviously was a witness to this) AA. I am glad

that he has but I suspect that there hasn't been any closure for him and

I do think that he was buying into the whole cult gig.

If something like that ever happened in another organisation (well at

least here in Canada) that would be called sexual harrassment and

criminal charges could be pressed.

kisses

Tom Boy

At 09:02 PM 26/11/01 +0000, you wrote:

I know a few people in the

" program " who told me they were

goaded into talking about mastubation and sexual fantasies by a

" kind and caring " sponsor. Being told the old AA line " you

are

only as sick as your secrets, " this is not only a load of crap, but

also incredibly dehumanizing.

There is some information that we have every right to keep

absolutely private, and are under no obligation to tell anyone, not

being allowed to have private thoughts is not being allowed to be

a person. Would a sponsor be interested in hearing about

mastubation because he/she is concerned about you drinking

again if you don't talk about it? NO! It is because this person is a

sick, twisted pervert.

Devin

> Got to tell this one!

> Back in the mid 80's when I was into NA/AA, a few us formed

what we called " Bill W's surf riders association " . That was

when I

was living in Melbourne, (south east Australia). To go for a surf,

when you lived there, meant a 2 hour drive down the coast. (No

guesses the topic of conversation in the Kombi van on the way

there.......and back). Recovery! Anyway, one of our

surf

" fellowship " members met a girl who was a mormon. He was

suddenly forbidden from surfing on Sundays and all sorts of

other rediculous restrictions. He changed from being a regular

sort of bloke into a pretty intense one. He stopped swearing,

talking filth, etc, etc, which is pretty hard for your standard

Aussie

bloke to do, I can tell you. LOL! One trip, he seemed a bit quiet.

On gentle probing, as good concerned fellow AA/NA members

will do, we established that he had " busted' the previous

night.

Apparently, after abstaining for 9 months he had masterbated,

after seing his girlfreind the previous night! They were due to

marry shortly. As a point of order here, his girlfriend was one

sexy and amazingly attractive girl!. Anyway, we listened with

concern, and empathy. (Isn't the word " empathy " abused in the

rooms? LOL!) Now the point of the story is that after 9 long

months, doing religiously correct things with his sex-Godess,

and being a very good boy, keeping his hands to himself, )wel

not even THAT!) and the contents of his underpants in check,

only to " bust " ............one can only imagine how fucking

excellent

that bust must have been!

> I think I'd " bust " a second time, straight

afterwards, just for

good measure! (probably my diesease talking here)

> I dont know what became of my surfing mate I know he left

NA/AA, and was tithing 10% of his bucks to the church.

> I hope he still surfs.

>

> Barnsey

[Guest guest]

I remember being at a big book study where we started at the beginning of

the big book , read a bit each week, discussed it and continued with this

process until we finished the first 164 pages of the BB (the big treat at

the end of that routine was being allowed to read a story at the end of

the 164 pages, a newbie usually got to choose the story we would read and

discuss), this particular week we were on page 69 (and for my sponsee

Caroline's benefit that is where sex is discussed) and after the reading

of course we were supposed to discuss our deepest darkest naughty sex

secrets. We went around the table , one guy talking about what a sex

whore he was when he was drinking and of course the next person had to

top that story and on and on around the room. Finally we came to a

newcomer (who was very obviously feeling very uncomfortable and

pressured) started to share. He was 40ish and had never had a sexual

experience, while telling this he was visibly shaken and obviously

disturbed by feeling he had to share something that was so personal. I

felt sick to my stomach when this happened, I could not believe that this

was going on in an AA meeting.

He was an individual that was deeply sensitive, kind , lonely and

extremely vulnerable. He has since stopped going to " the

program " and although I see him quite frequently in my place of

business , we have never really discussed his leaving (he still is

nervous around me, as I obviously was a witness to this) AA. I am glad

that he has but I suspect that there hasn't been any closure for him and

I do think that he was buying into the whole cult gig.

If something like that ever happened in another organisation (well at

least here in Canada) that would be called sexual harrassment and

criminal charges could be pressed.

kisses

Tom Boy

At 09:02 PM 26/11/01 +0000, you wrote:

I know a few people in the

" program " who told me they were

goaded into talking about mastubation and sexual fantasies by a

" kind and caring " sponsor. Being told the old AA line " you

are

only as sick as your secrets, " this is not only a load of crap, but

also incredibly dehumanizing.

There is some information that we have every right to keep

absolutely private, and are under no obligation to tell anyone, not

being allowed to have private thoughts is not being allowed to be

a person. Would a sponsor be interested in hearing about

mastubation because he/she is concerned about you drinking

again if you don't talk about it? NO! It is because this person is a

sick, twisted pervert.

Devin

> Got to tell this one!

> Back in the mid 80's when I was into NA/AA, a few us formed

what we called " Bill W's surf riders association " . That was

when I

was living in Melbourne, (south east Australia). To go for a surf,

when you lived there, meant a 2 hour drive down the coast. (No

guesses the topic of conversation in the Kombi van on the way

there.......and back). Recovery! Anyway, one of our

surf

" fellowship " members met a girl who was a mormon. He was

suddenly forbidden from surfing on Sundays and all sorts of

other rediculous restrictions. He changed from being a regular

sort of bloke into a pretty intense one. He stopped swearing,

talking filth, etc, etc, which is pretty hard for your standard

Aussie

bloke to do, I can tell you. LOL! One trip, he seemed a bit quiet.

On gentle probing, as good concerned fellow AA/NA members

will do, we established that he had " busted' the previous

night.

Apparently, after abstaining for 9 months he had masterbated,

after seing his girlfreind the previous night! They were due to

marry shortly. As a point of order here, his girlfriend was one

sexy and amazingly attractive girl!. Anyway, we listened with

concern, and empathy. (Isn't the word " empathy " abused in the

rooms? LOL!) Now the point of the story is that after 9 long

months, doing religiously correct things with his sex-Godess,

and being a very good boy, keeping his hands to himself, )wel

not even THAT!) and the contents of his underpants in check,

only to " bust " ............one can only imagine how fucking

excellent

that bust must have been!

> I think I'd " bust " a second time, straight

afterwards, just for

good measure! (probably my diesease talking here)

> I dont know what became of my surfing mate I know he left

NA/AA, and was tithing 10% of his bucks to the church.

> I hope he still surfs.

>

> Barnsey

[Guest guest]

Actually, I kind of regret posting this story about my Mormon mate. Once you post, it's posted. Cant edit it, can you? If I could, I would change the post so it doesn't seem like I'm making fun of my friend. (which I was). Thinking about it, he was really tormented. He was a few years in AA/NA and he was a real "lost soul" looking for answers and direction. He thought that God had sent this women into his life for a reason, and that the church was the natural progression from AA/NA in his spiritual journey.

He was the sort of person who could never make a decision, and clearly didn't trust his own thinking. The church did that for him, as did AA/NA. I think that's what he wanted. Perhaps that's the attraction for cults and certain religions. They do your thinking for you. Tell you what to think, what to do, what to wear, what to eat......Personal choise and liberal thinking are redundant. Some people like that, I suppose. AA certainly discourages thinking for your self.

Barnsey

[Guest guest]

Tomboy:

I'm queer too BTW. Tried to be straight when I tried not to be an alcoholic. Neither worked. Oh well. The Mormon doesn't seem to mind that at this time.

The Mormon has not yet gone on his mission. Is there a possibility they don't return from missions? They're both so anal retentive and orderly I doubt that anyone else will be able to stand them and that could be the click. Oh well. He did fall for a German exchange student in their senior year. My daughter was frosted the whole time. He also gets pissy when she has a boyfriend. Teenagers.

Jan

Has he been on his 'mission yet? ( I suspect most likely if he is already attending BYU)? 'cause the good news is that he will likely 'fall in love' with a good Mormon girl who is also attending BYU and will likely marry her even before they finish byu oh yeah and they will probably be expecting their first child before they have their degrees (if she even finishes hers after all there isn't any real need for her to have an education, she will be staying home raising the 12 kids and washing the magic underwear.).

I hope for your sake and your daughters sake that she never ever marries into the Mormons. They are a sick bunch of mothers!

As far as The Mormons, it is easy to fall in with that gang. They look so squeaky clean and so damn innocent, until you look just under the surface that is!

Oh yeah , I seriously considered joining the Mormon church but hey then I found out that you can't be a mormon if you are queer. heee heee that left me out of the picture. Oh my poor little queer feelings are so hurt!

kisses

Tom Boy

[Guest guest]

Tomboy:

I'm queer too BTW. Tried to be straight when I tried not to be an alcoholic. Neither worked. Oh well. The Mormon doesn't seem to mind that at this time.

The Mormon has not yet gone on his mission. Is there a possibility they don't return from missions? They're both so anal retentive and orderly I doubt that anyone else will be able to stand them and that could be the click. Oh well. He did fall for a German exchange student in their senior year. My daughter was frosted the whole time. He also gets pissy when she has a boyfriend. Teenagers.

Jan

Has he been on his 'mission yet? ( I suspect most likely if he is already attending BYU)? 'cause the good news is that he will likely 'fall in love' with a good Mormon girl who is also attending BYU and will likely marry her even before they finish byu oh yeah and they will probably be expecting their first child before they have their degrees (if she even finishes hers after all there isn't any real need for her to have an education, she will be staying home raising the 12 kids and washing the magic underwear.).

I hope for your sake and your daughters sake that she never ever marries into the Mormons. They are a sick bunch of mothers!

As far as The Mormons, it is easy to fall in with that gang. They look so squeaky clean and so damn innocent, until you look just under the surface that is!

Oh yeah , I seriously considered joining the Mormon church but hey then I found out that you can't be a mormon if you are queer. heee heee that left me out of the picture. Oh my poor little queer feelings are so hurt!

kisses

Tom Boy

[Guest guest]

Tomboy:

The Mormon has to go to school for two years before he goes on his mission. "For doorknobs sake"? That cracks me up. The Mormon is a boy scout which my daughter thinks is cool. My daughter is squeaky clean herself and very concerned about being a good person. She can always get a divorce, but if there are children that would be bad. Well, I guess I'm projecting, but after 4 years of being smitten with each other, I don't know. Perhaps I should ask my Doorknob for guidance.

Jan

HE HASN & quot;T BEEN ON HIS MISSION YET???? oh my doorknob. When he goes on his mission (and I guarantee you he will) he will be gone for one year and yes he will definitely be returning (ready and very willing to marry and start having babies right away!).

You are queer? hmmmm Mormons believe this is one of the biggest sins of all time.

This is really off topic *but* The Boy Scouts of America is The Mormons after school program (all mormon boys are signed up to BSA by the Mormon church) and The Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints have repeatedly made it clear that if they allow gay youth or gay leaders to participate in Boy Scouting of America , they will withdraw their participation and their membership in Boy Scouts of America.

They are dangerously homophobic and will do everything possible to cure the homosexual (including aversion therapy). There have been more than one case of gay Mormon youth committing suicide because of their belief that they are evil. One gay boy killed himself on the front steps of his local Mormon ward. The Mormons make AA look like the safest place in the world. I would rank LDS up there with Scientologists, the biggest difference is that LDS has an image of being so squeaky clean and safe (sorta like the AA public image) and that makes it even more dangerous.

kisses

Tom Boy

[Guest guest]

Here Here Mike:

Better a creative drunkalogue, even humorous, such as it is, than listening to Ann fucking Hogan give another step talk. She is one of the most miserable people I have ever known, and here in our queer so-called recovery community she is regarded as a guru.

Anyone remember the Joe and Charlie tapes? Well, Joe "created" recovery dynamics and has his very own treatment center in Arkansas. Ann Hogan teaches recovery dynamics which is the correct way to work the steps - or so she says. I had this woman for a sponsor for a while. Even while still in AA, I once told her that I, at least, was comfortable with our differences. Whatever. Oh hell, I used Ann's last name...

Jan

I always liked the drunkalogs - I just loved speaker meetings. Maybe I'm

just a voyuer at heart?

[Guest guest]

Here Here Mike:

Better a creative drunkalogue, even humorous, such as it is, than listening to Ann fucking Hogan give another step talk. She is one of the most miserable people I have ever known, and here in our queer so-called recovery community she is regarded as a guru.

Anyone remember the Joe and Charlie tapes? Well, Joe "created" recovery dynamics and has his very own treatment center in Arkansas. Ann Hogan teaches recovery dynamics which is the correct way to work the steps - or so she says. I had this woman for a sponsor for a while. Even while still in AA, I once told her that I, at least, was comfortable with our differences. Whatever. Oh hell, I used Ann's last name...

Jan

I always liked the drunkalogs - I just loved speaker meetings. Maybe I'm

just a voyuer at heart?

[Guest guest]

Yes Tomboy, I completly agree - this situation could be sexual

harrasment under just about any other circumstances. Actually it

is a kind of psyco-sexual torture, the kind of stuff that would give

Dracula the creeps. I remember those sessions when someone

confesses something, then the next person has to top that story.

I have to admit there are some situations in AA/NA where people

do get to use thier imaginations, after all you can't make it sound

like you weren't really that bad, or you will be accused of " not

being rigorously honest, " so just let that imagination flow and tell

the nastiest story you can.

I always was completely aware that a great many of those

drunk-a-logues were mostly fabricated. When I liberated myself

from the cult in July '00 I had reached a saturation point with the

drunk-a-logue, If I hear one more F-ing drunk-a-logue, I will leap

up and run down the street screaming and tearing my hair out.

Devin

> > > Got to tell this one!

> > > Back in the mid 80's when I was into NA/AA, a few us

formed

> >what we called " Bill W's surf riders association " . That was

when I

> >was living in Melbourne, (south east Australia). To go for a

surf,

> >when you lived there, meant a 2 hour drive down the coast.

(No

> >guesses the topic of conversation in the Kombi van on the

way

> >there.......and back). Recovery! Anyway, one of our surf

> > " fellowship " members met a girl who was a mormon. He was

> >suddenly forbidden from surfing on Sundays and all sorts of

> >other rediculous restrictions. He changed from being a

regular

> >sort of bloke into a pretty intense one. He stopped swearing,

> >talking filth, etc, etc, which is pretty hard for your standard

Aussie

> >bloke to do, I can tell you. LOL! One trip, he seemed a bit

quiet.

> >On gentle probing, as good concerned fellow AA/NA

members

> >will do, we established that he had " busted' the previous

night.

> >Apparently, after abstaining for 9 months he had

masterbated,

> >after seing his girlfreind the previous night! They were due to

> >marry shortly. As a point of order here, his girlfriend was one

> >sexy and amazingly attractive girl!. Anyway, we listened with

> >concern, and empathy. (Isn't the word " empathy " abused in

the

> >rooms? LOL!) Now the point of the story is that after 9 long

> >months, doing religiously correct things with his sex-Godess,

> >and being a very good boy, keeping his hands to himself, )wel

> >not even THAT!) and the contents of his underpants in check,

> >only to " bust " ............one can only imagine how fucking

excellent

> >that bust must have been!

> > > I think I'd " bust " a second time, straight afterwards, just for

> >good measure! (probably my diesease talking here)

> > > I dont know what became of my surfing mate I know he left

> >NA/AA, and was tithing 10% of his bucks to the church.

> > > I hope he still surfs.

> > >

> > > Barnsey

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I always liked the drunkalogs - I just loved speaker meetings. Maybe I'm

just a voyuer at heart?

-----Original Message-----

From: manypaths2@...

If I hear one more F-ing drunk-a-logue, I will leap

up and run down the street screaming and tearing my hair out.

Devin

-

[Guest guest]

I always liked the drunkalogs - I just loved speaker meetings. Maybe I'm

just a voyuer at heart?

-----Original Message-----

From: manypaths2@...

If I hear one more F-ing drunk-a-logue, I will leap

up and run down the street screaming and tearing my hair out.

Devin

-

[Guest guest]

I always liked the drunkalogs - I just loved speaker meetings. Maybe I'm

just a voyuer at heart?

-----Original Message-----

From: manypaths2@...

If I hear one more F-ing drunk-a-logue, I will leap

up and run down the street screaming and tearing my hair out.

Devin

-

[Guest guest]

From my point of view, Barnsey, I don't think you need to feel bad

about the post. I saw you as being sympathetic and

understanding toward this guy, and your critisism was directed

toward the system that messed up his thinking.

Devin

> Actually, I kind of regret posting this story about my Mormon

mate. Once you post, it's posted. Cant edit it, can you? If I could, I

would change the post so it doesn't seem like I'm making fun of

my friend. (which I was). Thinking about it, he was really

tormented. He was a few years in AA/NA and he was a real " lost

soul " looking for answers and direction. He thought that God had

sent this women into his life for a reason, and that the church

was the natural progression from AA/NA in his spiritual journey.

> He was the sort of person who could never make a decision,

and clearly didn't trust his own thinking. The church did that for

him, as did AA/NA. I think that's what he wanted. Perhaps that's

the attraction for cults and certain religions. They do your thinking

for you. Tell you what to think, what to do, what to wear, what to

eat......Personal choise and liberal thinking are redundant. Some

people like that, I suppose. AA certainly discourages thinking for

your self.

> Barnsey

[Guest guest]

Probably a pointless squabble, but I was a bit taken aback by the

honesty and warmth of this (unheard) apology. It shows real caring. I

know people just like the described Mormon, incapable of decision

making, incapable of saying no to those " in their circle " and basically

scared of life... and that is much more sad than laughable. There was a

little of both (understandably) in the original post. Messages to this

list can't be edited.

Re: Bad Horror Movie

From my point of view, Barnsey, I don't think you need to feel bad

about the post. I saw you as being sympathetic and

understanding toward this guy, and your critisism was directed

toward the system that messed up his thinking.

Devin

> Actually, I kind of regret posting this story about my Mormon

mate. Once you post, it's posted. Cant edit it, can you? If I could, I

would change the post so it doesn't seem like I'm making fun of

my friend. (which I was). Thinking about it, he was really

tormented. He was a few years in AA/NA and he was a real " lost

soul " looking for answers and direction. He thought that God had

sent this women into his life for a reason, and that the church

was the natural progression from AA/NA in his spiritual journey.

> He was the sort of person who could never make a decision,

and clearly didn't trust his own thinking. The church did that for

him, as did AA/NA. I think that's what he wanted. Perhaps that's

the attraction for cults and certain religions. They do your thinking

for you. Tell you what to think, what to do, what to wear, what to

eat......Personal choise and liberal thinking are redundant. Some

people like that, I suppose. AA certainly discourages thinking for

your self.

> Barnsey

[Guest guest]

Tom Boy,

Why don't you make amends with the man?

> > > Got to tell this one!

> > > Back in the mid 80's when I was into NA/AA, a few us

formed

> >what we called " Bill W's surf riders association " . That was

when I

> >was living in Melbourne, (south east Australia). To go for a

surf,

> >when you lived there, meant a 2 hour drive down the coast.

(No

> >guesses the topic of conversation in the Kombi van on the

way

> >there.......and back). Recovery! Anyway, one of our surf

> > " fellowship " members met a girl who was a mormon. He was

> >suddenly forbidden from surfing on Sundays and all sorts of

> >other rediculous restrictions. He changed from being a

regular

> >sort of bloke into a pretty intense one. He stopped swearing,

> >talking filth, etc, etc, which is pretty hard for your standard

Aussie

> >bloke to do, I can tell you. LOL! One trip, he seemed a bit

quiet.

> >On gentle probing, as good concerned fellow AA/NA

members

> >will do, we established that he had " busted' the previous

night.

> >Apparently, after abstaining for 9 months he had

masterbated,

> >after seing his girlfreind the previous night! They were due to

> >marry shortly. As a point of order here, his girlfriend was one

> >sexy and amazingly attractive girl!. Anyway, we listened with

> >concern, and empathy. (Isn't the word " empathy " abused in

the

> >rooms? LOL!) Now the point of the story is that after 9 long

> >months, doing religiously correct things with his sex-Godess,

> >and being a very good boy, keeping his hands to himself, )wel

> >not even THAT!) and the contents of his underpants in check,

> >only to " bust " ............one can only imagine how fucking

excellent

> >that bust must have been!

> > > I think I'd " bust " a second time, straight afterwards, just for

> >good measure! (probably my diesease talking here)

> > > I dont know what became of my surfing mate I know he left

> >NA/AA, and was tithing 10% of his bucks to the church.

> > > I hope he still surfs.

> > >

> > > Barnsey

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Tomboy and all,

I remember sitting in a meeting, hearing a 'war story' from the top

table, and being acutely uncomfortable........this would be quite some

time ago....years; it was as though I could hear my own thoughts, saying

to myself " I really, REALLY don't need to know that about you " (the

person who was 'sharing'). It was a very strong feeling, and made me so

uncomfortable......yet I sat there, kept listening, did

nothing.......but that memory stayed strongly in my mind and is one

little part of what's helping me see things for myself now. Funny how

some things make such a strong impression; you just reminded me of that.

There is an awful lot I would love to talk about but still find it very

difficult. I am getting *such* a lot of help here from reading what you

all write......Tomboy, Jan, , more that I can't remember at the

moment, so many here who write the things which are in my head ......it

is such a help to see it there on the screen.

Thank you all

M.

PS Tomboy.....your spoof sponsor thing.........that's the bees

knees(though my head is still pretty mixed up...I felt a pang of guilt

at laughing, and then felt angry at myself for feeling guilty)

[Guest guest]

First of all, I seriously thought about not answering this question, I am

not sure whether you are being sarcastic or whether you are serious.

I don't make " amends " , that is XA jargon that literally

makes my stomach turn to the point where I feel a need to run to the

bathroom and stick my head in the toilet to upchuck.

Last but not least, I haven't done anything wrong. I will not put the

weight of the cult on my shoulders and take responsibilities for the

evils that take place in so called recovery circles.

Does this sound rather terse?

good, I hope I have made myself clear.

kisses

Tom Boy

At 06:37 AM 27/11/01 -0500, you wrote:

Tom Boy,

Why don't you make amends with the man?

> > > Got to tell this one!

> > > Back in the mid 80's when I was into NA/AA, a few us

formed

> >what we called " Bill W's surf riders association " .

That was

when I

> >was living in Melbourne, (south east Australia). To go for a

surf,

> >when you lived there, meant a 2 hour drive down the coast.

(No

> >guesses the topic of conversation in the Kombi van on the

way

> >there.......and back). Recovery! Anyway, one

of our surf

> > " fellowship " members met a girl who was a mormon. He

was

> >suddenly forbidden from surfing on Sundays and all sorts of

> >other rediculous restrictions. He changed from being a

regular

> >sort of bloke into a pretty intense one. He stopped

swearing,

> >talking filth, etc, etc, which is pretty hard for your

standard

Aussie

> >bloke to do, I can tell you. LOL! One trip, he seemed a

bit

quiet.

> >On gentle probing, as good concerned fellow AA/NA

members

> >will do, we established that he had " busted' the

previous

night.

> >Apparently, after abstaining for 9 months he had

masterbated,

> >after seing his girlfreind the previous night! They were due

to

> >marry shortly. As a point of order here, his girlfriend was

one

> >sexy and amazingly attractive girl!. Anyway, we listened

with

> >concern, and empathy. (Isn't the word " empathy " abused

in

the

> >rooms? LOL!) Now the point of the story is that after 9

long

> >months, doing religiously correct things with his

sex-Godess,

> >and being a very good boy, keeping his hands to himself,

)wel

> >not even THAT!) and the contents of his underpants in

check,

> >only to " bust " ............one can only imagine how

fucking

excellent

> >that bust must have been!

> > > I think I'd " bust " a second time, straight

afterwards, just for

> >good measure! (probably my diesease talking here)

> > > I dont know what became of my surfing mate I know he

left

> >NA/AA, and was tithing 10% of his bucks to the church.

> > > I hope he still surfs.

> > >

> > > Barnsey

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Tomboy:

I wasn't telling you what to do. I was offering my perspective on previous emails. I feel sorry for that guy (and a whole lot of other people I've seen violated by AA). I respect your right to privacy. Your statement claiming it reminded me of how many times I wished people would fuck off and get out of my shit. Privacy is considered isolating - bullshit. At this time I am trying very hard to recover physically and the last thing I need or want is someone critiquing my life. And no you don't have to fix him. It sounds like he hasn't asked you to either.

That being said - one thing I like about this list is the freedom we all have to be opinionated. Pete tends to be quite blunt with me which I find refreshing. I try not to take any of what I read here personally. Everything in AA is so damned personal and right in your shit. Dissenters are punished. I welcome dissent and disagreement.

Jan

I can no longer make it my responsibility to fix up the wrongs of others. I have been & quot;trained & quot; to do this for 30 years. I have been taught to & quot;make nice & quot; , help others be comfortable, be there for people, help until it hurts, carry the message, practice these principles, ad nauseum. I have been conditioned to be the classic & quot;caretaker & quot;. On my journey to recovery from the cult experience, I no longer can take on the responsibility of & quot;healing & quot; others. I cannot make it my responsibility to & quot;carry the message & quot; to this individual.

Today I am responsible for my own behaviour and actions (like you have stated) and so is this man. He will find his answers on his journey and I must respect his right to privacy and freedom to make his choices and his decisions.

If he ever wants to talk to me (we always have our shallow & quot;small talk & quot; when I run into him) and has any questions about why I am so damn happy, I may or may not tell him why. Because for the last 30 frickin' years ,I have been conditioned to believe that I don't have the right to privacy. Guess what ? now I know that I deserve privacy. and I will choose to tell people what I want and when I want.

I also know that I don't need advice from someone else and perhaps that is the hardest thing for me to tell people that I don't need your advice , I don't want your

[Guest guest]

Tomboy:

I wasn't telling you what to do. I was offering my perspective on previous emails. I feel sorry for that guy (and a whole lot of other people I've seen violated by AA). I respect your right to privacy. Your statement claiming it reminded me of how many times I wished people would fuck off and get out of my shit. Privacy is considered isolating - bullshit. At this time I am trying very hard to recover physically and the last thing I need or want is someone critiquing my life. And no you don't have to fix him. It sounds like he hasn't asked you to either.

That being said - one thing I like about this list is the freedom we all have to be opinionated. Pete tends to be quite blunt with me which I find refreshing. I try not to take any of what I read here personally. Everything in AA is so damned personal and right in your shit. Dissenters are punished. I welcome dissent and disagreement.

Jan

I can no longer make it my responsibility to fix up the wrongs of others. I have been & quot;trained & quot; to do this for 30 years. I have been taught to & quot;make nice & quot; , help others be comfortable, be there for people, help until it hurts, carry the message, practice these principles, ad nauseum. I have been conditioned to be the classic & quot;caretaker & quot;. On my journey to recovery from the cult experience, I no longer can take on the responsibility of & quot;healing & quot; others. I cannot make it my responsibility to & quot;carry the message & quot; to this individual.

Today I am responsible for my own behaviour and actions (like you have stated) and so is this man. He will find his answers on his journey and I must respect his right to privacy and freedom to make his choices and his decisions.

If he ever wants to talk to me (we always have our shallow & quot;small talk & quot; when I run into him) and has any questions about why I am so damn happy, I may or may not tell him why. Because for the last 30 frickin' years ,I have been conditioned to believe that I don't have the right to privacy. Guess what ? now I know that I deserve privacy. and I will choose to tell people what I want and when I want.

I also know that I don't need advice from someone else and perhaps that is the hardest thing for me to tell people that I don't need your advice , I don't want your

[Guest guest]

Tomboy:

I wasn't telling you what to do. I was offering my perspective on previous emails. I feel sorry for that guy (and a whole lot of other people I've seen violated by AA). I respect your right to privacy. Your statement claiming it reminded me of how many times I wished people would fuck off and get out of my shit. Privacy is considered isolating - bullshit. At this time I am trying very hard to recover physically and the last thing I need or want is someone critiquing my life. And no you don't have to fix him. It sounds like he hasn't asked you to either.

That being said - one thing I like about this list is the freedom we all have to be opinionated. Pete tends to be quite blunt with me which I find refreshing. I try not to take any of what I read here personally. Everything in AA is so damned personal and right in your shit. Dissenters are punished. I welcome dissent and disagreement.

Jan

I can no longer make it my responsibility to fix up the wrongs of others. I have been & quot;trained & quot; to do this for 30 years. I have been taught to & quot;make nice & quot; , help others be comfortable, be there for people, help until it hurts, carry the message, practice these principles, ad nauseum. I have been conditioned to be the classic & quot;caretaker & quot;. On my journey to recovery from the cult experience, I no longer can take on the responsibility of & quot;healing & quot; others. I cannot make it my responsibility to & quot;carry the message & quot; to this individual.

Today I am responsible for my own behaviour and actions (like you have stated) and so is this man. He will find his answers on his journey and I must respect his right to privacy and freedom to make his choices and his decisions.

If he ever wants to talk to me (we always have our shallow & quot;small talk & quot; when I run into him) and has any questions about why I am so damn happy, I may or may not tell him why. Because for the last 30 frickin' years ,I have been conditioned to believe that I don't have the right to privacy. Guess what ? now I know that I deserve privacy. and I will choose to tell people what I want and when I want.

I also know that I don't need advice from someone else and perhaps that is the hardest thing for me to tell people that I don't need your advice , I don't want your

[Guest guest]

At 01:20 PM 11/27/01 -0800, Tomboy wrote:

> " Take the good and leave the rest " is XA slogan crap-o-la. I haven't done

anything that needs to be " patched up " and there isn't any " damaged

relations " between this individual and myself. There is plenty wrong with

making nice and " patching things up " when I haven't done anything wrong.

I don't know what's going on with the other posters, I had the same

reaction to " why don't you make amends " , I though " for what " (I reread the

original to see if I missed something) and " why say that in AA language " ?

Perhaps because one can't think of other words for it?

You're really kicking ass at coming back to these comments.

Congratulations. It took me many years to think " AA dogma " when I heard

something I had been programmed to believe was " universal spiritual truth. "

>kisses

>Tom Boy

----------

http://listen.to/benbradley

[Guest guest]

At 01:20 PM 11/27/01 -0800, Tomboy wrote:

> " Take the good and leave the rest " is XA slogan crap-o-la. I haven't done

anything that needs to be " patched up " and there isn't any " damaged

relations " between this individual and myself. There is plenty wrong with

making nice and " patching things up " when I haven't done anything wrong.

I don't know what's going on with the other posters, I had the same

reaction to " why don't you make amends " , I though " for what " (I reread the

original to see if I missed something) and " why say that in AA language " ?

Perhaps because one can't think of other words for it?

You're really kicking ass at coming back to these comments.

Congratulations. It took me many years to think " AA dogma " when I heard

something I had been programmed to believe was " universal spiritual truth. "

>kisses

>Tom Boy

----------

http://listen.to/benbradley