Re: Scared

November 21, 2001

No, most of them are CAC's. Certified addictions counselor. Basically all

that stands for is someone who has a degree in stepping. They have studied

learned and " came to believe " . They head these indoctrination

centers(rehabs) and push their ideas on the medical, political, and

scientific communities. Most people in these communities believe the

stepper based solely on there credentials and their stories. Well as we

know, these stories are wickedly overdone melodramas and pro-AA/NA personal

accounts. Usually, they convince high ranking officials of their ideas

solely on hearsay, the way they convince most everyone.

>From: watts_pete@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: Scared

>Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:46:58 -0000

>

> > And we are the source of the misinformation in addiction...Right?

>I don't think so.

>

>Nope - and neither are the shrinks. Only abt 10% of US addiction

>treatment professionals are trained in psychiatry - and those are

>themost likely to povide NON 12 STEP approaches. That is why I

>despise the professional stepper so much - the vast majority of them

>have no credentials in either Psychology or Psychiatry, but are

>frequently nothing more than mere graduates of the 12-step farm that

>they now work in - often starting only weeks after they left as

>patients, just long enough to ensure that no patient remembers them

>in that role. I have written on professional lists as well as here

>about how they shamelessly ianly distort the DSM, both to make

>dxes and to refuse remission status, even though the DSM dxes

>themselves were written by ppl highly influenced by the Disease

>COncept and is hardly a Harm Reduction manifesto. They have the

>brass neck to reply that they arent shrinks and hence are not bound

>by the DSM or ICD - yet they file DSM and ICD codes with their

>fraudulent dxes to the XA coercers and the insurance providers to get

>their hostages and their blood money.

>

>Typically in a rehab you get to see a shrink or psychologist just the

>once as a CYA so they can say that you had a screening if you later

>sue them - but you'll never see them again as the XA clergy move in

>on your head from that point onward.

>

>With their ignorance and their XA " A drug is a drug " bullshit, they

>use their professional status to drive ppl *away* from ppl who

>actually know something about mental distress and the treatments that

>might actually help.

>

>The steppers are PART of the antipsychiatry movement.

>

>P.

>

_________________________________________________________________

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November 21, 2001

> The idea of Bichemical imbalance is going hand in hand with the

>disease model of addiction.

This statement is so vague as to be almost impossible to

refute. Even if we knew for certain that biochemstry was not to the

root of addiction, it isnt to " walk hand in hand " with the disease

model to suggest it may be the root of *something else*. Another

important thing to remember is that the disease model says the

problem is permanent unless for some reason you spend your time

sitting in smelly church basements. Another example of the stepper

doublethink incidentally, half the timne theyre claiming theyre

miserable because they have a permanent chemical imbalance,the other

half of the time they say theyre " happy, joyous and free " thru

engaging in religious passive (or active) smoking. If ppl really

believed the DM and thought logically from it they'd be in *favor* of

using psychotropic meds - they believe the person had a permanent

biochemical porblem that, without gene therapy, only meds could

correct. Again with the insane Looking Glass logic that crops over

again and again in the addiction world, for some reason they somehow

use this as an argument *against* using meds and it is the DM

skeptics who are more likely to support med use. The only one Ive

seen who supposedly does is Floyd Garrett, but in fact in reality he

sees the " alcoholism pill " as like a kind of Messiah - he only

pretends to believe it will ever be found, in practice he will reject

any advance, like naltrexone, as a false one. In some respects thats

actually just as well, because imo in terms of a universal cure, they

almost certainly *will* be false ones. Naltrexone is not a magic

bullet. Yet XA is a *psychosocial* response to addiction and hence

presumalby ought to be supported only by ppl who believe addiction

has a psychosocial cause!

" Basically what both say, is that a persons brain chemicals cause

thoughts and feelings to happen. Not what a person thinks or feels

about what is going on causing the biological response. That a drug,

when ingested, takes over a persons ability to think for themselves,

by altering the brain. The imbalance theory states that a person is

inable to feel an emotion because the brain does not produce the

chemicals needed to produce that emotion. So a person can not feel

happy in situations they used to. The only problem with this theory

is that you have to assume that the brain chooses what we decide we

like and dislike. While in all actuality, we have chosen through

experience. In other words, the body does not decide how we think or

feel. "

Very big groan here , because now you are sounding exactly like

that violent " Maoist " nutcase I had to work so hard to get rid of a

while back, which makes me wonder if that is indeed who you are (my

apologies if you arent). Unless you are some kind of Cartesian

Dualist who believes there is some kind of non-material soul that

communicates with the brain via the pineal gland or something, then I

dont see how the hell you can possibly deny that what causes thoughts

and feelings is biochemical activity in the brain. and if you accept

that, as even most religious ppl do these days - then I fail to see

how you can possibly deny that there is at least a *possibility* that

a biochemical imbalance might cause mental illness. Another thing

you ignore in your argument is the possibility that their might be a

*feedback loop* between experiences and biochemistry and hence it is

silly to think of the two causes as in any way competing with each

other - the problem can be analyzed at both levels.

I am increasingly suspicious that you are indeed the person to whom I

have referred, so I will forestall further response until that is

clarified.

P.

November 21, 2001

Write me at Tangerina01@... and I will give you a list of sites.

Hugs,

Tangie

Antidepressants certainly don't make me a zombie and anyone I know personally who is taking them don't suffer from zombie like states either.Am curious how one can become addicted to antidepressants? (since they aren't addictive)I would be very pleased to read the research you have done and read and if you could please provide me the sources for your statements I would be delighted.kissesDelAt 02:03 AM 21/11/01 -0600, Tangie wrote:

Antidepressants don't make you a zombie. Ha! There is more misinformation about psychiatric medications than AA. I have been off and on and off and on and finally off of medication after 10 years. Psychiatrists seek to enslave the same way AA does only making you more fragile, brain damaged from highly questionable meds, and yes, addicted. Anyone who wants more info can go to www.antipsychiatry.org www.breggin.org E-mail me at Tangerina01 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com for a longer list. Therapy is not a bad idea. A trusted minister or pastor can help you through what is essentially a spiritual crisis. Hugs,TangieAt 10:33 PM 19/11/01 +0000, you wrote:

I've been actively NOT going to meetings for a few months now. I have been hoping to wean myself off of AA and get back to a normal life. I have a lot of fear. I get depressed and lonely sometimes even though I am often around alot of people. I am worried that if I drink I will die drunk even though I'm not a low bottom drunk. I am thinking about anti-depressants. I don't want to be a zombie, though. I am also interested in therapy. I need to stop giving a shit what others think about me. I talked to my old sponsor today. She told me about a friend that died drunk in her car recently. I got all this fear. Plus the holidays are a hard time for me. I can see myself going back there. Or drinking and having all that aa rhetoric swim around in my head and crawling back. k

November 21, 2001

Write me at Tangerina01@... and I will give you a list of sites.

Hugs,

Tangie

Antidepressants certainly don't make me a zombie and anyone I know personally who is taking them don't suffer from zombie like states either.Am curious how one can become addicted to antidepressants? (since they aren't addictive)I would be very pleased to read the research you have done and read and if you could please provide me the sources for your statements I would be delighted.kissesDelAt 02:03 AM 21/11/01 -0600, Tangie wrote:

Antidepressants don't make you a zombie. Ha! There is more misinformation about psychiatric medications than AA. I have been off and on and off and on and finally off of medication after 10 years. Psychiatrists seek to enslave the same way AA does only making you more fragile, brain damaged from highly questionable meds, and yes, addicted. Anyone who wants more info can go to www.antipsychiatry.org www.breggin.org E-mail me at Tangerina01 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com for a longer list. Therapy is not a bad idea. A trusted minister or pastor can help you through what is essentially a spiritual crisis. Hugs,TangieAt 10:33 PM 19/11/01 +0000, you wrote:

I've been actively NOT going to meetings for a few months now. I have been hoping to wean myself off of AA and get back to a normal life. I have a lot of fear. I get depressed and lonely sometimes even though I am often around alot of people. I am worried that if I drink I will die drunk even though I'm not a low bottom drunk. I am thinking about anti-depressants. I don't want to be a zombie, though. I am also interested in therapy. I need to stop giving a shit what others think about me. I talked to my old sponsor today. She told me about a friend that died drunk in her car recently. I got all this fear. Plus the holidays are a hard time for me. I can see myself going back there. Or drinking and having all that aa rhetoric swim around in my head and crawling back. k

November 22, 2001

jesus. e-mail her get the frickin' addresses.

Re: Scared

Why is it necessary for me to email you privately ? You have shared your "wisdom" on this email list and have made numerous claims, so I think it is only responsible that you back up your words with a list of links as have been requested.kissestom boyAt 12:21 AM 22/11/01 -0600, Tangie wrote:

Write me at Tangerina01@... and I will give you a list of sites. Hugs,Tangie Antidepressants certainly don't make me a zombie and anyone I know personally who is taking them don't suffer from zombie like states either.Am curious how one can become addicted to antidepressants? (since they aren't addictive)I would be very pleased to read the research you have done and read and if you could please provide me the sources for your statements I would be delighted.kissesDelAt 02:03 AM 21/11/01 -0600, Tangie wrote:

Antidepressants don't make you a zombie. Ha! There is more misinformation about psychiatric medications than AA. I have been off and on and off and on and finally off of medication after 10 years. Psychiatrists seek to enslave the same way AA does only making you more fragile, brain damaged from highly questionable meds, and yes, addicted. Anyone who wants more info can go to www.antipsychiatry.org www.breggin.org E-mail me at Tangerina01 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com for a longer list. Therapy is not a bad idea. A trusted minister or pastor can help you through what is essentially a spiritual crisis. Hugs,TangieAt 10:33 PM 19/11/01 +0000, you wrote:

I've been actively NOT going to meetings for a few months now. I have been hoping to wean myself off of AA and get back to a normal life. I have a lot of fear. I get depressed and lonely sometimes even though I am often around alot of people. I am worried that if I drink I will die drunk even though I'm not a low bottom drunk. I am thinking about anti-depressants. I don't want to be a zombie, though. I am also interested in therapy. I need to stop giving a shit what others think about me. I talked to my old sponsor today. She told me about a friend that died drunk in her car recently. I got all this fear. Plus the holidays are a hard time for me. I can see myself going back there. Or drinking and having all that aa rhetoric swim around in my head and crawling back. k

November 22, 2001

ummm I am not Jesus, or am I?

kisses

Tom " Jesus " Boy

At 05:33 AM 22/11/01 -0700, Arnold wrote:

jesus. e-mail

her get the frickin' addresses.

Re: Scared

Why is it necessary for me to email you privately ? You have shared your " wisdom " on this email list and have made numerous claims, so I think it is only responsible that you back up your words with a list of links as have been requested.

kisses

tom boy

At 12:21 AM 22/11/01 -0600, Tangie wrote:

Write me at Tangerina01@... and I will give you a list of sites.

Hugs,

Tangie

Antidepressants certainly don't make me a zombie and anyone I know personally who is taking them don't suffer from zombie like states either.

Am curious how one can become addicted to antidepressants? (since they aren't addictive)

I would be very pleased to read the research you have done and read and if you could please provide me the sources for your statements I would be delighted.

kisses

Del

At 02:03 AM 21/11/01 -0600, Tangie wrote:

Antidepressants don't make you a zombie.

Ha! There is more misinformation about psychiatric medications than AA. I have been off and on and off and on and finally off of medication after 10 years. Psychiatrists seek to enslave the same way AA does only making you more fragile, brain damaged from highly questionable meds, and yes, addicted. Anyone who wants more info can go to

www.antipsychiatry.org

www.breggin.org

E-mail me at Tangerina01 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com for a longer list.

Therapy is not a bad idea. A trusted minister or pastor can help you through what is essentially a spiritual crisis.

Hugs,

Tangie

At 10:33 PM 19/11/01 +0000, you wrote:

I've been actively NOT going to meetings for a few months now. I have

been hoping to wean myself off of AA and get back to a normal life. I

have a lot of fear. I get depressed and lonely sometimes even though I

am often around alot of people. I am worried that if I drink I will

die drunk even though I'm not a low bottom drunk. I am thinking about

anti-depressants. I don't want to be a zombie, though. I am also

interested in therapy. I need to stop giving a shit what others think

about me. I talked to my old sponsor today. She told me about a friend

that died drunk in her car recently. I got all this fear. Plus the

holidays are a hard time for me. I can see myself going back there. Or

drinking and having all that aa rhetoric swim around in my head and

crawling back.

k

November 23, 2001

i'm sorry Tom Boy. didn't mean to send that last weird e-mail. I'm afraid I was typing before I was thinking. It got botched and bungled..

And I think it may be very likely that you are, in fact, Jesus of Nazareth.

see ya

aaron

Re: ScaredWhy is it necessary for me to email you privately ? You have shared your "wisdom" on this email list and have made numerous claims, so I think it is only responsible that you back up your words with a list of links as have been requested.kissestom boyAt 12:21 AM 22/11/01 -0600, Tangie wrote:

Write me at Tangerina01@... and I will give you a list of sites. Hugs,Tangie Antidepressants certainly don't make me a zombie and anyone I know personally who is taking them don't suffer from zombie like states either.Am curious how one can become addicted to antidepressants? (since they aren't addictive)I would be very pleased to read the research you have done and read and if you could please provide me the sources for your statements I would be delighted.kissesDelAt 02:03 AM 21/11/01 -0600, Tangie wrote:

Antidepressants don't make you a zombie. Ha! There is more misinformation about psychiatric medications than AA. I have been off and on and off and on and finally off of medication after 10 years. Psychiatrists seek to enslave the same way AA does only making you more fragile, brain damaged from highly questionable meds, and yes, addicted. Anyone who wants more info can go to www.antipsychiatry.org www.breggin.org E-mail me at Tangerina01 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com for a longer list. Therapy is not a bad idea. A trusted minister or pastor can help you through what is essentially a spiritual crisis. Hugs,TangieAt 10:33 PM 19/11/01 +0000, you wrote:

I've been actively NOT going to meetings for a few months now. I have been hoping to wean myself off of AA and get back to a normal life. I have a lot of fear. I get depressed and lonely sometimes even though I am often around alot of people. I am worried that if I drink I will die drunk even though I'm not a low bottom drunk. I am thinking about anti-depressants. I don't want to be a zombie, though. I am also interested in therapy. I need to stop giving a shit what others think about me. I talked to my old sponsor today. She told me about a friend that died drunk in her car recently. I got all this fear. Plus the holidays are a hard time for me. I can see myself going back there. Or drinking and having all that aa rhetoric swim around in my head and crawling back. k

November 23, 2001

bless you my child.

kisses

Jesus

At 01:08 AM 23/11/01 -0700, you wrote:

i'm sorry Tom

Boy. didn't mean to send that last weird e-mail. I'm afraid I

was typing before I was thinking. It got botched and bungled..

And I think it may be very likely that you are, in fact,

Jesus of Nazareth.