Re: Scared

November 19, 2001

The first thing that you need to do is to cease ALL contact with your

former AAers. You will continue to doubt yourself as long as you

keep up these so-called " friendships " . Of course these people are

going to try to scare you back into the " rooms " with all of

the " doomsday tales " of how ex-AAers died a horrible drinking/drug

death. Remember that the Twelve Steppers must believe the propoganda

and fear that they spread. AA/NA would not be so " successful " in

maintaining control over others if many of the members actually

supported a person leaving the " program " for a chance at a sane life

without any strong-hold over their minds or emotions. You will only

drink if you CHOOSE to! Remember that you have a choice in

everything. Seeking out medical care is not a bad idea. Get the

AAers' voices of saying how medication is " bad " out of your head!

Only you and your physician can make a decision re: medicine that you

may need. Therapy is not a bad idea, either; but be careful who you

go to see. Many people in the counseling field try to coerce their

patients into these Twelve Step cults.

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults

November 19, 2001

Scared

> I've been actively NOT going to meetings for a few months now. I have

> been hoping to wean myself off of AA and get back to a normal life. I

> have alot of fear. I get depressed and lonely sometimes even though I

> am often around alot of people. I am worried that if I drink I will

> die drunk even though I'm not a low bottom drunk. I am thinking about

> anti-depressants. I don't want to be a zombie, though. I am also

> interested in therapy. I need to stop giving a shit what others think

> about me. I talked to my old sponsor today. She told me about a friend

> that died drunk in her car recently. I got all this fear. Plus the

> holidays are a hard time for me. I can see myself going back there. Or

> drinking and having all that aa rhetoric swim around in my head and

> crawling back.

>

G'day. Thanks for the post. I think what it boils down to is whether or not

you think you have a choice in the behaviour you describe. If you drink, is

it mandatory for bad things to happen? AA says yes. You have an allergy, a

disease. If you have ONE drink, you will be almost obliged to have 100, and

to create havoc in your life and the lives of others. Then you die.... When

I think about the times I " relapsed " , I wonder if the programming of AA

influenced me into a self fulfilling prophesy of types. If thinking that

having ONE drink will lead you to get drunk, it may follow that you will.

Specially when you're told this day after day in meetings etc.

But if you have decided to reject this thinking, and have decided that no,

you are NOT sick, not diseased, not insane, not powerless, you have just

acquired what us non steppers call personal choice. Personal power. I'm not

telling you to go ahead and drink, or even suggesting it. I'm suggesting

that you have the ability to chose, as we all do, contrary to the teachings

of AA.

I believe that substance abuse, (or call it what you will....I try to avoid

the words " alcoholism and addiction) is a behaviour, not a disease. Here in

Australia, we have a mostly public (hence, not for profit) health system.

There are two types of detox/ treatment types on offer. One is the Salvation

Army, who have 6 month rehab programmes based on the 12 steps, and the other

is offered by the public hospital system. The hospital approach is based on

the concept that substance abuse is a behavioural problem, not a disease.

Consequently, the treatment and interventions focus on behavioural

modification. They rarely support AA/NA, or refer people to meetings.

Instead, they work on life style, education, moderation techniques, belief

systems. A good " tool " is the " triggers and cues " inventory. SMART is

similar in its philosophy. You might like to check them out.

It's all about personal choice and empowering people to take charge of their

lives. I wonder about the private health system in the U.S.A. Which of the

above models would be better for business? I cant give you any statistics

for which model is more sucessful, but I know that our health professionals

in Australia and accademic researchers have rejected the disease model for

10-15 years, and modern treatments are as such. I just wish there was an

alternative to AA that I knew of in 1984.

To me, it's simple. If you don't want to be a drunk.....DON'T. Don't live

like one, don't behave like one, don't think like one, and most importantly

for me: DON'T call yourself one.

I hope this helps.

From Barnsey.

November 19, 2001

I agree with much of what is said here but I also think to some AA

does serve a purpose. By saying that 'our' thinking is better puts

things in a difficult hole.

Let's be happy we have found a way to life a happy life, but also

support people that make different choices. Just like some people

have found hapiness in AA doesn't make it right for them to push

there ideas and ideals on others, that same rule should apply here.

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks

>

> Scared

>

> > I've been actively NOT going to meetings for a few months now. I

have

> > been hoping to wean myself off of AA and get back to a normal

life. I

> > have alot of fear. I get depressed and lonely sometimes even

though I

> > am often around alot of people. I am worried that if I drink I

will

> > die drunk even though I'm not a low bottom drunk. I am thinking

about

> > anti-depressants. I don't want to be a zombie, though. I am also

> > interested in therapy. I need to stop giving a shit what others

think

> > about me. I talked to my old sponsor today. She told me about a

friend

> > that died drunk in her car recently. I got all this fear. Plus the

> > holidays are a hard time for me. I can see myself going back

there. Or

> > drinking and having all that aa rhetoric swim around in my head

and

> > crawling back.

> >

> G'day. Thanks for the post. I think what it boils down to is

whether or not

> you think you have a choice in the behaviour you describe. If you

drink, is

> it mandatory for bad things to happen? AA says yes. You have an

allergy, a

> disease. If you have ONE drink, you will be almost obliged to have

100, and

> to create havoc in your life and the lives of others. Then you

die.... When

> I think about the times I " relapsed " , I wonder if the programming

of AA

> influenced me into a self fulfilling prophesy of types. If

thinking that

> having ONE drink will lead you to get drunk, it may follow that you

will.

> Specially when you're told this day after day in meetings etc.

>

> But if you have decided to reject this thinking, and have decided

that no,

> you are NOT sick, not diseased, not insane, not powerless, you have

just

> acquired what us non steppers call personal choice. Personal power.

I'm not

> telling you to go ahead and drink, or even suggesting it. I'm

suggesting

> that you have the ability to chose, as we all do, contrary to the

teachings

> of AA.

>

> I believe that substance abuse, (or call it what you will....I try

to avoid

> the words " alcoholism and addiction) is a behaviour, not a disease.

Here in

> Australia, we have a mostly public (hence, not for profit) health

system.

> There are two types of detox/ treatment types on offer. One is the

Salvation

> Army, who have 6 month rehab programmes based on the 12 steps, and

the other

> is offered by the public hospital system. The hospital approach is

based on

> the concept that substance abuse is a behavioural problem, not a

disease.

> Consequently, the treatment and interventions focus on behavioural

> modification. They rarely support AA/NA, or refer people to

meetings.

> Instead, they work on life style, education, moderation techniques,

belief

> systems. A good " tool " is the " triggers and cues " inventory. SMART

is

> similar in its philosophy. You might like to check them out.

>

> It's all about personal choice and empowering people to take charge

of their

> lives. I wonder about the private health system in the U.S.A. Which

of the

> above models would be better for business? I cant give you any

statistics

> for which model is more sucessful, but I know that our health

professionals

> in Australia and accademic researchers have rejected the disease

model for

> 10-15 years, and modern treatments are as such. I just wish there

was an

> alternative to AA that I knew of in 1984.

>

> To me, it's simple. If you don't want to be a drunk.....DON'T.

Don't live

> like one, don't behave like one, don't think like one, and most

importantly

> for me: DON'T call yourself one.

>

> I hope this helps.

>

> From Barnsey.

November 19, 2001

Re: Scared

> I agree with much of what is said here but I also think to some AA

> does serve a purpose. By saying that 'our' thinking is better puts

> things in a difficult hole.

>

> Let's be happy we have found a way to life a happy life, but also

> support people that make different choices. Just like some people

> have found hapiness in AA doesn't make it right for them to push

> there ideas and ideals on others, that same rule should apply here.

>

> Hope this makes sense.

>

> Thanks

>

Yes, as a general statement, it makes sense. But in the context of this

thread; no it doesn't.

It's an exchange of ideas, not a demand.

Barnsey

November 19, 2001

Antidepressants don't make you a zombie. Whether or not they are for you

is something that you will want to discuss with your doctor.

Of course your sponsor told you about someone who died because of

alcohol. This is the easiest way to keep you in control, to keep you

scared and to keep you going in A.A.

It is absolutely terrifying leaving the cult, I know, been there.

The best information I can give you is to keep reading as much as

possible , the more information you get the better off you will be.

This list has been a doorknob send to me.

kisses

Tom Boy

At 10:33 PM 19/11/01 +0000, you wrote:

I've been actively NOT going to

meetings for a few months now. I have

been hoping to wean myself off of AA and get back to a normal life. I

have alot of fear. I get depressed and lonely sometimes even though I

am often around alot of people. I am worried that if I drink I will

die drunk even though I'm not a low bottom drunk. I am thinking about

anti-depressants. I don't want to be a zombie, though. I am also

interested in therapy. I need to stop giving a shit what others think

about me. I talked to my old sponsor today. She told me about a friend

that died drunk in her car recently. I got all this fear. Plus the

holidays are a hard time for me. I can see myself going back there. Or

drinking and having all that aa rhetoric swim around in my head and

crawling back.

k

November 19, 2001

Thanks alot. I really appreciate the responses I've gotten here. I do

have some problems. I pretty much have the symptoms of " alcholism " .

One way they keep you in the program is they ask if you to see if you

" identify " with the speakers. And I do. Not with their drunkalogues

so much as with their feelings. I went to a meeting with a " normie "

friend of mine. He wanted to prove a point to me. The point was to

show me that I had the same feelings as everyone who spoke at the

meeting whereas my friend did not. Therefore, I am an alcoholic and he

is not. And he isn't.

I like the idea of being able to chill with people and be honest about

how I feel about things. I do feel like I am surrounded by normal

people who don't get depressed really or feel less than or all the

other ways alcoholics feel. It's nice to be around other folks who

have to cope with a little more grief in their lives. Although, I do

think I tend to enshrine some of that.

I guess aa doesn't really help me fix my problems it just makes me

feel more at ease cause I can see that I am not alone.

I'm glad Tomboy said anti-depressants don't make you feel like a

zombie. I have absolutely no one in my life that supports me trying

them. I seriously wonder if they could help and spare me alot of pain.

I have a prescription for zoloft I am going to pick up tomorrow. I'm

gonna try it and see how it works.

I can see the need to stay away from those " you're gonna die! " people

as well. What a downer. It's hard though cause cults draw you in. If

you've ever seen the movie " Ticket to Heaven " then you know it feels.

At the end the dude is hugging his family after having gone through

the deprogramming process. And at the last instant he shoots a cold,

knowing look up at his cult friends standing nearby.

this is all over the place. :-) just some thoughts.

k

> >I've been actively NOT going to meetings for a few months now. I

have

> >been hoping to wean myself off of AA and get back to a normal life.

I

> >have alot of fear. I get depressed and lonely sometimes even though

I

> >am often around alot of people. I am worried that if I drink I will

> >die drunk even though I'm not a low bottom drunk. I am thinking

about

> >anti-depressants. I don't want to be a zombie, though. I am also

> >interested in therapy. I need to stop giving a shit what others

think

> >about me. I talked to my old sponsor today. She told me about a

friend

> >that died drunk in her car recently. I got all this fear. Plus the

> >holidays are a hard time for me. I can see myself going back there.

Or

> >drinking and having all that aa rhetoric swim around in my head and

> >crawling back.

> >

> >k

> >

November 19, 2001

Antidepressants work. I suffer from horrible depression and I fought

taking antidepressants for years because well ya all know the story (bad

bad not following the program , if you did what we said and you did the

steps properly you wouldn't be depressed and if you take an

antidepressant you might as well be drinking because it is mood

altering).

One big concern I had when going on antidepressants was being goofy on

them or feeling like a zombie. I deal with great amounts of money every

day and I cannot afford to be " zombie like " .

Zoloft will definitely not make you feel zombie like (it's what I take).

One thing you should know (which my kind doctor pointed out) is that if

you get agitated when you get depressed, stay away from Prozac.

Apparently one of the side affects of Prozac is agitation !

kisses

Tom Boy

At 02:28 AM 20/11/01 +0000, kikibaby67@... wrote:

I'm glad Tomboy said

anti-depressants don't make you feel like a

zombie. I have absolutely no one in my life that supports me trying

them. I seriously wonder if they could help and spare me alot of pain.

I have a prescription for zoloft I am going to pick up tomorrow. I'm

gonna try it and see how it works.

I can see the need to stay away from those " you're gonna die! "

people

as well. What a downer. It's hard though cause cults draw you in. If

you've ever seen the movie " Ticket to Heaven " then you know it

feels.

At the end the dude is hugging his family after having gone through

the deprogramming process. And at the last instant he shoots a cold,

knowing look up at his cult friends standing nearby.

this is all over the place. :-) just some thoughts.

k

November 19, 2001

I think most people here do not want to deny AA a existance, but since you

can not openly criticize AA, someone must give a balancing viewpoint. A lot

of what is said here is harsh, but we can't help it, it is the truth.

abbadun

====================================================================

Total abstinence is easier than perfect moderation.

---St. Augustine

>From: finklez@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: Scared

>Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:16:07 -0000

>

>I agree with much of what is said here but I also think to some AA

>does serve a purpose. By saying that 'our' thinking is better puts

>things in a difficult hole.

>

>Let's be happy we have found a way to life a happy life, but also

>support people that make different choices. Just like some people

>have found hapiness in AA doesn't make it right for them to push

>there ideas and ideals on others, that same rule should apply here.

>

>Hope this makes sense.

>

>Thanks

>

> >

> > Scared

> >

> > > I've been actively NOT going to meetings for a few months now. I

>have

> > > been hoping to wean myself off of AA and get back to a normal

>life. I

> > > have alot of fear. I get depressed and lonely sometimes even

>though I

> > > am often around alot of people. I am worried that if I drink I

>will

> > > die drunk even though I'm not a low bottom drunk. I am thinking

>about

> > > anti-depressants. I don't want to be a zombie, though. I am also

> > > interested in therapy. I need to stop giving a shit what others

>think

> > > about me. I talked to my old sponsor today. She told me about a

>friend

> > > that died drunk in her car recently. I got all this fear. Plus the

> > > holidays are a hard time for me. I can see myself going back

>there. Or

> > > drinking and having all that aa rhetoric swim around in my head

>and

> > > crawling back.

> > >

> > G'day. Thanks for the post. I think what it boils down to is

>whether or not

> > you think you have a choice in the behaviour you describe. If you

>drink, is

> > it mandatory for bad things to happen? AA says yes. You have an

>allergy, a

> > disease. If you have ONE drink, you will be almost obliged to have

>100, and

> > to create havoc in your life and the lives of others. Then you

>die.... When

> > I think about the times I " relapsed " , I wonder if the programming

>of AA

> > influenced me into a self fulfilling prophesy of types. If

>thinking that

> > having ONE drink will lead you to get drunk, it may follow that you

>will.

> > Specially when you're told this day after day in meetings etc.

> >

> > But if you have decided to reject this thinking, and have decided

>that no,

> > you are NOT sick, not diseased, not insane, not powerless, you have

>just

> > acquired what us non steppers call personal choice. Personal power.

>I'm not

> > telling you to go ahead and drink, or even suggesting it. I'm

>suggesting

> > that you have the ability to chose, as we all do, contrary to the

>teachings

> > of AA.

> >

> > I believe that substance abuse, (or call it what you will....I try

>to avoid

> > the words " alcoholism and addiction) is a behaviour, not a disease.

>Here in

> > Australia, we have a mostly public (hence, not for profit) health

>system.

> > There are two types of detox/ treatment types on offer. One is the

>Salvation

> > Army, who have 6 month rehab programmes based on the 12 steps, and

>the other

> > is offered by the public hospital system. The hospital approach is

>based on

> > the concept that substance abuse is a behavioural problem, not a

>disease.

> > Consequently, the treatment and interventions focus on behavioural

> > modification. They rarely support AA/NA, or refer people to

>meetings.

> > Instead, they work on life style, education, moderation techniques,

>belief

> > systems. A good " tool " is the " triggers and cues " inventory. SMART

>is

> > similar in its philosophy. You might like to check them out.

> >

> > It's all about personal choice and empowering people to take charge

>of their

> > lives. I wonder about the private health system in the U.S.A. Which

>of the

> > above models would be better for business? I cant give you any

>statistics

> > for which model is more sucessful, but I know that our health

>professionals

> > in Australia and accademic researchers have rejected the disease

>model for

> > 10-15 years, and modern treatments are as such. I just wish there

>was an

> > alternative to AA that I knew of in 1984.

> >

> > To me, it's simple. If you don't want to be a drunk.....DON'T.

>Don't live

> > like one, don't behave like one, don't think like one, and most

>importantly

> > for me: DON'T call yourself one.

> >

> > I hope this helps.

> >

> > From Barnsey.

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

November 19, 2001

> I've been actively NOT going to meetings for a few months now. I

have

> been hoping to wean myself off of AA and get back to a normal life.

I

> have alot of fear. I get depressed and lonely sometimes even though

I

> am often around alot of people. I am worried that if I drink I will

> die drunk even though I'm not a low bottom drunk. I am thinking

about

> anti-depressants. I don't want to be a zombie, though. I am also

> interested in therapy. I need to stop giving a shit what others

think

> about me. I talked to my old sponsor today. She told me about a

friend

> that died drunk in her car recently. I got all this fear. Plus the

> holidays are a hard time for me. I can see myself going back there.

Or

> drinking and having all that aa rhetoric swim around in my head and

> crawling back.

>

> k

Hi k,

You sound rough. Would like to ask why you are talking with

your old sponsor? I only ask cause she sounds like a bitch,

and you only mentioned her briefly. But look at what she tells

you....something to enhance your fears. Why? Control of you.

My suggestion would be if you are going to talk with her, be

careful with what you tell her or watch how she uses that info.

Also would suggest to get your butt over to AAdeprogramming and

read up....have articles on sponsors. You might recognize yours

AA rhetoric swimming around in your head...i hate it when that

happens. Go back in files...look for slogans. Might help.

Holidays...yiks. Last year i could do nothing. Made it to

one of the meals i think. Was clean, but mentally gone.

Only do what you want with the holidays. If people don't like

it - tough. If they continue...give em your shopping or card

list. If they have time to hound-they have time to help.

You have to give yourself some time to get well, in whatever

way you feel is best. For me that meant to find options i could

choose from. Sounds like you are looking at a couple now,

therapy and/or anti-depressants. If those feel right for you,

go for it. If not, search for more options.

About the drinking and die stuff. A huge mind f***. Rethink

this one....it's a pisser, thats for sure. People have drunk

themselves to death and those assholes in AA use that to

control and manipulate you. If you reject that, you are to

follow same fate. It's boggus...it's a trick...a mind f***.

Those who die that way....how many where involved in AA?

You have to relearn some stuff, you do have power and control.

Now you just have to believe it.

netty

November 20, 2001

I disagree with you on this and feel that you are one step away from

saying that you and people who think like you are better than

others. This is what is referred to as tertiary deviance, when your

a certain factor common to a group becomes the lynchpin into thinking

that you/we are better than others.

Mental illness does exist, treating it is just a very inexact

science. If you have ever been with someone or have any kind of bi-

polarity brain disorder then you can understand what I am saying.

You have to understand though that just taking meds isn't a cure but

a helping hand to break out of what ever is going on in your head.

80% of it though has to be through your own sweat and effort and that

is something that not many people do, and then blame it on the drugs,

or a psychiatrist when they should be looking inside.

>

> I've been actively NOT going to meetings

> for a few months now. I have

> been hoping to wean myself off of AA and get

> back to a normal life. I

> have a lot of fear. I get depressed and lonely

> sometimes even though I

> am often around alot of people. I am worried that if

> I drink I will

> die drunk even though I'm not a low bottom drunk. I am

> thinking about

> anti-depressants. I don't want to be a zombie, though. I am

> also

> interested in therapy. I need to stop giving a shit what others

think

>

> about me. I talked to my old sponsor today. She told me about a

friend

>

> that died drunk in her car recently. I got all this fear. Plus the

>

> holidays are a hard time for me. I can see myself going back there.

Or

>

> drinking and having all that aa rhetoric swim around in my head and

>

> crawling back.

>

> k

>

November 20, 2001

>

> Ha! There is more misinformation about psychiatric medications

than

> AA

Yes Tangie, and ppl like you and the antipsychiatry ppl are the

source of it.

November 20, 2001

tangie,

Anyone who calls Zoloft addictictive does not understand what the

word means. If you do not caveat your opinions with an

acknowledgement you are not an MD and that a person *should always

seek medical advice* with regard to these matters, I will moderate

your posts. I am NOT going to have ppl practising medicine without a

licence on this list!

A very GOOD URL to go to on depression is Dr Ivan's Depression

central, easily found with a web search.

P.

>

> Careful with that Zoloft. I can speak from both personal

experience

> and observation of others taking that Zoloft is addictive

especially when

> combined with other meds. Your doctor will never give you all of

the

> necessary information about Zoloft, possibly because he doesn't

have it

> himself.

November 20, 2001

And we are the source of the misinformation in addiction...Right? I don't think so. Re: Scared > > Ha! There is more misinformation about psychiatric medications than > AAYes Tangie, and ppl like you and the antipsychiatry ppl are the source of it.

November 20, 2001

The idea of Bichemical imbalance is going hand in hand with the disease model of addiction. Basically what both say, is that a persons brain chemicals cause thoughts and feelings to happen. Not what a person thinks or feels about what is going on causing the biological response. That a drug, when ingested, takes over a persons ability to think for themselves, by altering the brain. The imbalance theory states that a person is inable to feel an emotion because the brain does not produce the chemicals needed to produce that emotion. So a person can not feel happy in situations they used to. The only problem with this theory is that you have to assume that the brain chooses what we decide we like and dislike. While in all actuality, we have chosen through experience. In other words, the body does not decide how we think or feel. Chemicals do not make us depressed. What happens in our lives makes us depressed. I am not trying to practice medicine, only give my belief on the subject. But it makes moer sense to me that a "bad run of it" will cause some one to feel down, then the brain not functioning right. Would you call someone who is grieving the death of a loved one chemically imbalanced? Yet, their brain chemistry would resemble that ogf someone who has been diagnosed with a chemical imbalance. How do they check for this chemical imbalance? Do they take a needle and stick it ion your brain and check the levels, like they do when they take blood to check for other bodily chemicals? No. They ask questions, if they are relevnat, they give you medication, and you never figure out what was making you depressed. Tomboy is on to something. She was on meds the entire time she was in AA. Even after being placed on medication, she still felt depressed. Now that she has left AA, she no longer feels depressed. Was AA or a chemical imbalance giving her depression? AA, right? Is taking medication going to releave you of your depression? No, it cures nothing. Yeah, it causes more of the "happy" chemicals to go through your brain, exactly like alcohol or cocaine did. Was there a disease causing you to drink or take drugs? No, there was something else. Something that you have to figure out yourself(I am not a doctor or a therapist), maybe with sopme help of other people, but finding what ever caused you to want to escape reality or become depressed is going to make you better. As I said, I am not a doctor, I am not trying to tell you that I am. I am not even playing one on t.v. This just seems like common sense to me. If you agree, then you agree. If you don't, you don't. If you want to take meds, you have every right to, just as you have every right to drink if you want to. Do what ever you want to do, but don't try and blame some kind of condition that has as much proof as the disease of addiction. Re: Scared I disagree with you on this and feel that you are one step away from saying that you and people who think like you are better than others. This is what is referred to as tertiary deviance, when your a certain factor common to a group becomes the lynchpin into thinking that you/we are better than others. Mental illness does exist, treating it is just a very inexact science. If you have ever been with someone or have any kind of bi- polarity brain disorder then you can understand what I am saying. You have to understand though that just taking meds isn't a cure but a helping hand to break out of what ever is going on in your head. 80% of it though has to be through your own sweat and effort and that is something that not many people do, and then blame it on the drugs, or a psychiatrist when they should be looking inside. > > > I've been actively NOT going to meetings > for a few months now. I have > been hoping to wean myself off of AA and get > back to a normal life. I > have a lot of fear. I get depressed and lonely > sometimes even though I > am often around alot of people. I am worried that if > I drink I will > die drunk even though I'm not a low bottom drunk. I am > thinking about > anti-depressants. I don't want to be a zombie, though. I am > also > interested in therapy. I need to stop giving a shit what others think > > about me. I talked to my old sponsor today. She told me about a friend > > that died drunk in her car recently. I got all this fear. Plus the > > holidays are a hard time for me. I can see myself going back there. Or > > drinking and having all that aa rhetoric swim around in my head and > > crawling back. > > k > > >

November 20, 2001

Antidepressants certainly don't make me a zombie and anyone I know

personally who is taking them don't suffer from zombie like states

either.

Am curious how one can become addicted to antidepressants? (since they

aren't addictive)

I would be very pleased to read the research you have done and read

and if you could please provide me the sources for your statements I

would be delighted.

kisses

Del

At 02:03 AM 21/11/01 -0600, Tangie wrote:

Antidepressants don't make you a

zombie.

Ha! There is more misinformation about psychiatric medications than

AA. I have been off and on and off and on and finally off of

medication after 10 years. Psychiatrists seek to enslave the same

way AA does only making you more fragile, brain damaged from highly

questionable meds, and yes, addicted. Anyone who wants more info

can go to

www.antipsychiatry.org

www.breggin.org

E-mail me at Tangerina01 (AT) yahoo (DOT)

com for a longer list.

Therapy is not a bad idea. A trusted minister or pastor can help

you through what is essentially a spiritual crisis.

Hugs,

Tangie

At 10:33 PM 19/11/01 +0000, you wrote:

I've been actively NOT going to

meetings for a few months now. I have

been hoping to wean myself off of AA and get back to a normal life. I

have a lot of fear. I get depressed and lonely sometimes even though I