Re: safe and warm

[Guest guest]

regardless of what you have been told, you stopped being an

" alcoholic " the day you stopped drinking. All the bad character

traits and defects you supposedly have were planted in your

consciousness as part of your AA conference approved

" alcoholic " identity.

rather than labeling yourself as your former habit, trying thinking

of yourself as a sober human being, entitled to all the respect,

and most importantly self respect as anyone else. It sounds like

your being too hard on yourself. you have been taught to do that

in AA. now that your not, trying giving yourself a break.

[Guest guest]

regardless of what you have been told, you stopped being an

" alcoholic " the day you stopped drinking. All the bad character

traits and defects you supposedly have were planted in your

consciousness as part of your AA conference approved

" alcoholic " identity.

rather than labeling yourself as your former habit, trying thinking

of yourself as a sober human being, entitled to all the respect,

and most importantly self respect as anyone else. It sounds like

your being too hard on yourself. you have been taught to do that

in AA. now that your not, trying giving yourself a break.

[Guest guest]

I cannot get " one day at a time " out of my head. Also the

other day , someone came into my business and was quite intoxicated.

There I stood thinking " But for the grace of god " , at least

this time I caught myself really fast and realised what I was

saying.

I am also getting really angry. Now, I think it is good news that I am

feeling anger because I haven't felt anger for a very long time, well

quite honestly I haven't felt anything for a very long time. I have been

able to supress all feelings that aren't positive because well you know

its not healthy to have negative feelings in XA. So now that I am

starting to feel anger and rage , I am kind of celebrating it because

this is one more step away from the madness.

Interesting comment about the topic " choice " , in the past 30

years I have never heard this topic come up, strange ain't it?

kisses

Tom Boy

At 06:41 PM 21/11/01 -0800, NANCY CHASTAIN wrote:

Thanks.

I needed to hear that. I can hardly wait for the book and tape I

have ordered. It is going to take a little time for me to get some

of the AA crap out my brain. I find myself repeating the slogans

and prayers for no damn reason. I'm starting to get angry, real

angry. You know, I'm not even ready to burn all the AA literature I

have. What the hell has happened to me. I don't normally cuss

but I feel duped, used, mislead, mentally raped.

For six months was visiting The Serenity Cafe, an msn chat room, 2 or 3

times a day for meetings and indoctrination as well as going to 3 or 4

meetings a week in a local AA group. The only thing I agree with

now is " keep an open mind " . I would love to get into that

chat room now and let everyone know how I feel. It wouldn't last

long because they 'boot' anyone who does not agree with them. Anyb

ody who is not a 12-stepper is booted as soon as discovered. Talk

about control!

There is one topic that will never be discussed in AA, 'choice'.

Primal scream time!

Re: safe and warm

regardless of what you have been told, you stopped being an

" alcoholic " the day you stopped drinking. All the bad

character

traits and defects you supposedly have were planted in your

consciousness as part of your AA conference approved

" alcoholic " identity.

rather than labeling yourself as your former habit, trying

thinking

of yourself as a sober human being, entitled to all the respect,

and most importantly self respect as anyone else. It sounds like

your being too hard on yourself. you have been taught to do that

in AA. now that your not, trying giving yourself a break.

[Guest guest]

I cannot get " one day at a time " out of my head. Also the

other day , someone came into my business and was quite intoxicated.

There I stood thinking " But for the grace of god " , at least

this time I caught myself really fast and realised what I was

saying.

I am also getting really angry. Now, I think it is good news that I am

feeling anger because I haven't felt anger for a very long time, well

quite honestly I haven't felt anything for a very long time. I have been

able to supress all feelings that aren't positive because well you know

its not healthy to have negative feelings in XA. So now that I am

starting to feel anger and rage , I am kind of celebrating it because

this is one more step away from the madness.

Interesting comment about the topic " choice " , in the past 30

years I have never heard this topic come up, strange ain't it?

kisses

Tom Boy

At 06:41 PM 21/11/01 -0800, NANCY CHASTAIN wrote:

Thanks.

I needed to hear that. I can hardly wait for the book and tape I

have ordered. It is going to take a little time for me to get some

of the AA crap out my brain. I find myself repeating the slogans

and prayers for no damn reason. I'm starting to get angry, real

angry. You know, I'm not even ready to burn all the AA literature I

have. What the hell has happened to me. I don't normally cuss

but I feel duped, used, mislead, mentally raped.

For six months was visiting The Serenity Cafe, an msn chat room, 2 or 3

times a day for meetings and indoctrination as well as going to 3 or 4

meetings a week in a local AA group. The only thing I agree with

now is " keep an open mind " . I would love to get into that

chat room now and let everyone know how I feel. It wouldn't last

long because they 'boot' anyone who does not agree with them. Anyb

ody who is not a 12-stepper is booted as soon as discovered. Talk

about control!

There is one topic that will never be discussed in AA, 'choice'.

Primal scream time!

Re: safe and warm

regardless of what you have been told, you stopped being an

" alcoholic " the day you stopped drinking. All the bad

character

traits and defects you supposedly have were planted in your

consciousness as part of your AA conference approved

" alcoholic " identity.

rather than labeling yourself as your former habit, trying

thinking

of yourself as a sober human being, entitled to all the respect,

and most importantly self respect as anyone else. It sounds like

your being too hard on yourself. you have been taught to do that

in AA. now that your not, trying giving yourself a break.

[Guest guest]

Safe and Warm - right - like a prison cell. That is what AA made me think too. In fact I found this site 3 or 4 days ago and realized AA was planning on keeping me safe, warm, confused, downgraded, afraid, imprisoned, and depressed. Depressed because they had me believing I'm a sick, flawed person. For six months they had me in there grip. No, I did not drink during that time. But now, I WILL NEVER DRINK AGAIN. Whoopie! No more counting, no more fear, no more being dragged to de-tox centers to look at the TB-ridden, blurry-eyed, shaking people and watching AA being shoved down their throats. I never could get beyond the first step. My sponsor kept pushing. I kept questioning. Now I know why. I am a normal, healthy, wonderful person who made some really lousy decisions when it came to alcohol and drugs. IF I TAKE A DRINK AGAIN THEN LET ME BE CONDEMED TO AA FOR ETERNITY. NOW THAT IS HELL. Like you, I'll pass up the wine but enjoy the food and companionship of my family and friends. safe and warm Hello site. Thanks for support around here. It's all a littleconfusing. AA is safe and warm. Drinking is dangerous. But, somehow Ican't do the safe and warm thing. The deal won't click in my head.I'm worried cause it's the holidays when people like me go running forcomfort. I want to be normal. I did(and still do?) have a drinkingproblem. I didn't know how to live without it. Now, I am a much betterperson. I have more self esteem and can interact with people. I stillget nervous but what do you want.Drinking is a big deal over the holidays and I did want to spend oneholiday season in the last 4 or 5 not stressed out about not drinking.If someone offers me wine I want to be able to accept it. I don't wantto have to get stupid drunk every time I drink and I don't want tofeel guilty. It's kinda easier now cause as a "non-drinker" I don'tdrink. It doesn't offer itself up as something to do:movie, dinner,drinking! Now, my only options are movie, dinner. I kinda like thesafety in that. I don't want my options to become: drinking, drinking,drinking. Also, I have definitely bought into some idea that I am badbecause I drink and I am good because I don't. Shouldn't I be goodeither way. How did that get in my head?Just rambling. :-)x

[Guest guest]

ya know how they say you cant be grateful and resentful at same

time? i think thats probably true. but after 9/11, i heard a shrink

say it was good people were angry because anger is healthier

than the fear it replaced. and that has probably got truth to it as

well.

i know im still angry at aa's abuses, but i try to make it a positive

rather than a negative. without anger, there would be no

revolution, the usa wouldn't exist if our forefathers hadn't turned

anger into an uprising.

cults generally try to discourage strong emotions, it disrupts the

cults hypnotic spell. they much rather see followers exhibit

numbness, something similar to AA's bland, non confrontational

or critical " serenity "

[Guest guest]

ya know how they say you cant be grateful and resentful at same

time? i think thats probably true. but after 9/11, i heard a shrink

say it was good people were angry because anger is healthier

than the fear it replaced. and that has probably got truth to it as

well.

i know im still angry at aa's abuses, but i try to make it a positive

rather than a negative. without anger, there would be no

revolution, the usa wouldn't exist if our forefathers hadn't turned

anger into an uprising.

cults generally try to discourage strong emotions, it disrupts the

cults hypnotic spell. they much rather see followers exhibit

numbness, something similar to AA's bland, non confrontational

or critical " serenity "

[Guest guest]

ya know how they say you cant be grateful and resentful at same

time? i think thats probably true. but after 9/11, i heard a shrink

say it was good people were angry because anger is healthier

than the fear it replaced. and that has probably got truth to it as

well.

i know im still angry at aa's abuses, but i try to make it a positive

rather than a negative. without anger, there would be no

revolution, the usa wouldn't exist if our forefathers hadn't turned

anger into an uprising.

cults generally try to discourage strong emotions, it disrupts the

cults hypnotic spell. they much rather see followers exhibit

numbness, something similar to AA's bland, non confrontational

or critical " serenity "

[Guest guest]

"I find myself repeating the slogans and prayers for no damn reason. I'm starting to get angry, real angry.

Boy, can I relate. Have you read 'The Real AA' by Ken Ragge, yet? http://www.aakills.com/books/realaa/mr_index.htm

It may help you understand why you are repeating the slogans and prayers. Something about thought stopping phrases....

"* A member of Codependents Anonymous, an organization which like AA considers the Twelve Steps the inspired word of God, recommended to me another thought-stopping technique to say to oneself, "Cancel, cancel, blue sky" and then imagine the sky. It serves the same purpose, is considered spiritual, and has the same effect as the one line "prayer." It interferes with thinking. "

It may also explain to you exactly why you're angry.

"You know, I'm not even ready to burn all the AA literature I have. "

Personally, I hadn't even thought about burning the literature yet. Normally book burning would be anathema, but in this case...hmmmmmm. You know, it's really cold here tonight, and my fireplace IS already going....

"What the hell has happened to me. I don't normally cuss but I feel duped, used, mislead, mentally raped."

Unfortuately, I am still finding my part in all of it. Sick and sad. I'm asking myself, why didn't I throw a fit when I saw the discrepancies and dangers. Instead, I picked an AA/NA member to scare the hell out of, and told them what I saw. I argued with them until I got tired of it, and walked away until the next meeting. I did this on and off for 15 yr. Steadily for the last 9. How stupid am I? That was a rhetorical question, thanks anyway.

[Guest guest]

"I find myself repeating the slogans and prayers for no damn reason. I'm starting to get angry, real angry.

Boy, can I relate. Have you read 'The Real AA' by Ken Ragge, yet? http://www.aakills.com/books/realaa/mr_index.htm

It may help you understand why you are repeating the slogans and prayers. Something about thought stopping phrases....

"* A member of Codependents Anonymous, an organization which like AA considers the Twelve Steps the inspired word of God, recommended to me another thought-stopping technique to say to oneself, "Cancel, cancel, blue sky" and then imagine the sky. It serves the same purpose, is considered spiritual, and has the same effect as the one line "prayer." It interferes with thinking. "

It may also explain to you exactly why you're angry.

"You know, I'm not even ready to burn all the AA literature I have. "

Personally, I hadn't even thought about burning the literature yet. Normally book burning would be anathema, but in this case...hmmmmmm. You know, it's really cold here tonight, and my fireplace IS already going....

"What the hell has happened to me. I don't normally cuss but I feel duped, used, mislead, mentally raped."

Unfortuately, I am still finding my part in all of it. Sick and sad. I'm asking myself, why didn't I throw a fit when I saw the discrepancies and dangers. Instead, I picked an AA/NA member to scare the hell out of, and told them what I saw. I argued with them until I got tired of it, and walked away until the next meeting. I did this on and off for 15 yr. Steadily for the last 9. How stupid am I? That was a rhetorical question, thanks anyway.

[Guest guest]

"I find myself repeating the slogans and prayers for no damn reason. I'm starting to get angry, real angry.

Boy, can I relate. Have you read 'The Real AA' by Ken Ragge, yet? http://www.aakills.com/books/realaa/mr_index.htm

It may help you understand why you are repeating the slogans and prayers. Something about thought stopping phrases....

"* A member of Codependents Anonymous, an organization which like AA considers the Twelve Steps the inspired word of God, recommended to me another thought-stopping technique to say to oneself, "Cancel, cancel, blue sky" and then imagine the sky. It serves the same purpose, is considered spiritual, and has the same effect as the one line "prayer." It interferes with thinking. "

It may also explain to you exactly why you're angry.

"You know, I'm not even ready to burn all the AA literature I have. "

Personally, I hadn't even thought about burning the literature yet. Normally book burning would be anathema, but in this case...hmmmmmm. You know, it's really cold here tonight, and my fireplace IS already going....

"What the hell has happened to me. I don't normally cuss but I feel duped, used, mislead, mentally raped."

Unfortuately, I am still finding my part in all of it. Sick and sad. I'm asking myself, why didn't I throw a fit when I saw the discrepancies and dangers. Instead, I picked an AA/NA member to scare the hell out of, and told them what I saw. I argued with them until I got tired of it, and walked away until the next meeting. I did this on and off for 15 yr. Steadily for the last 9. How stupid am I? That was a rhetorical question, thanks anyway.

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I needed to hear that. I can hardly wait for the book and tape I have ordered. It is going to take a little time for me to get some of the AA crap out my brain. I find myself repeating the slogans and prayers for no damn reason. I'm starting to get angry, real angry. You know, I'm not even ready to burn all the AA literature I have. What the hell has happened to me. I don't normally cuss but I feel duped, used, mislead, mentally raped. For six months was visiting The Serenity Cafe, an msn chat room, 2 or 3 times a day for meetings and indoctrination as well as going to 3 or 4 meetings a week in a local AA group. The only thing I agree with now is "keep an open mind". I would love to get into that chat room now and let everyone know how I feel. It wouldn't last long because they 'boot' anyone who does not agree with them. Anybody who is not a 12-stepper is booted as soon as discovered. Talk about control! There is one topic that will never be discussed in AA, 'choice'. Primal scream time! Re: safe and warm regardless of what you have been told, you stopped being an"alcoholic" the day you stopped drinking. All the bad charactertraits and defects you supposedly have were planted in yourconsciousness as part of your AA conference approved"alcoholic" identity.rather than labeling yourself as your former habit, trying thinkingof yourself as a sober human being, entitled to all the respect,and most importantly self respect as anyone else. It sounds likeyour being too hard on yourself. you have been taught to do thatin AA. now that your not, trying giving yourself a break.

[Guest guest]

dont burn, compost it! thats what i did with mine. it would be a

waste to not recycle so mcuh garbage

[Guest guest]

dont burn, compost it! thats what i did with mine. it would be a

waste to not recycle so mcuh garbage

[Guest guest]

> Personally, I hadn't even thought about burning the literature yet.

Normally book burning would be anathema, but in this case...hmmmmmm.

You know, it's really cold here tonight, and my fireplace IS already

going....

Joe B knows a more effective way to be free of it. Lend it to me....

Sorry Joe, I really WILL ring you soon!

P.

[Guest guest]

At 12:39 AM 11/22/01 -0500, abbadun _ wrote:

>Hey

>

>I would say that the most important thing for you to do is what ever it

>takes to stop drinking. Right now for me I use a little bit of AA, but I do

>not buy in for the whole deal. i have a feeling as I get more and more

>sobriety under my belt I will use more and more non-AA options to remain

>sober.

" A little bit of AA " reminds me of something I heard, only once (it was

apparently too much of a truism to get repeated), in AA. " Asking for advice

in AA is like trying to take a sip of water from a fire hose. "

----------

http://listen.to/benbradley

[Guest guest]

At 12:39 AM 11/22/01 -0500, abbadun _ wrote:

>Hey

>

>I would say that the most important thing for you to do is what ever it

>takes to stop drinking. Right now for me I use a little bit of AA, but I do

>not buy in for the whole deal. i have a feeling as I get more and more

>sobriety under my belt I will use more and more non-AA options to remain

>sober.

" A little bit of AA " reminds me of something I heard, only once (it was

apparently too much of a truism to get repeated), in AA. " Asking for advice

in AA is like trying to take a sip of water from a fire hose. "

----------

http://listen.to/benbradley

[Guest guest]

"How stupid am I?" hahahahahahaha Sorry, but I really enjoyed that. "Have your read..." I've just ordered a book and tape from RR. I've been depending on the net to provide me help those arrive. I'll also order 'The Real AA'. Thanks for the suggestion and the web connection. "thought-stopping technique" This gave me a flash back to one of my first meeting where I argued that any chant would give a serene state if repeated continuously, but 'they' calmly stated, while smiling condescendingly, it had to be one of their slogans or prayers. Good, aren't they. Re: Re: safe and warm "I find myself repeating the slogans and prayers for no damn reason. I'm starting to get angry, real angry. Boy, can I relate. Have you read 'The Real AA' by Ken Ragge, yet? http://www.aakills.com/books/realaa/mr_index.htm It may help you understand why you are repeating the slogans and prayers. Something about thought stopping phrases.... "* A member of Codependents Anonymous, an organization which like AA considers the Twelve Steps the inspired word of God, recommended to me another thought-stopping technique to say to oneself, "Cancel, cancel, blue sky" and then imagine the sky. It serves the same purpose, is considered spiritual, and has the same effect as the one line "prayer." It interferes with thinking. " It may also explain to you exactly why you're angry. "You know, I'm not even ready to burn all the AA literature I have. " Personally, I hadn't even thought about burning the literature yet. Normally book burning would be anathema, but in this case...hmmmmmm. You know, it's really cold here tonight, and my fireplace IS already going.... "What the hell has happened to me. I don't normally cuss but I feel duped, used, mislead, mentally raped." Unfortuately, I am still finding my part in all of it. Sick and sad. I'm asking myself, why didn't I throw a fit when I saw the discrepancies and dangers. Instead, I picked an AA/NA member to scare the hell out of, and told them what I saw. I argued with them until I got tired of it, and walked away until the next meeting. I did this on and off for 15 yr. Steadily for the last 9. How stupid am I? That was a rhetorical question, thanks anyway.

[Guest guest]

I found that once I got away from the 12 step ideology, it took less to stay

sober.

For me, the 12 steps are a mix of very little good and a lot of guilt

inducing bad. What parts of the steps that are good are canceled out either

in the next sentence or by the way they are worded.

Take the first step. Rather than just admitting I have a problem which is

truly the first step in overcoming it, it asks me to believe that my life is

completely out of control because of it and there is absolutely nothing I can

do about it because I am powerless to do so. Here lies the problem in

overcoming an addiction if I really try to accept this. If I truly believe

that I am powerless to do something about it, I am already doomed to failure.

Step 2 is unnecessary if I don't accept step one. Step 3, same as 2. Step 4

wouldn't hurt except it wants to make it a moral issue. What if I was raised

in the housing projects in a welfare family in the inner city and all my

life, all I knew was poverty and a depressed life style. Drugs and alcohol

are prevalent and I get mixed up with the wrong crowd at an early age. Am I

morally wrong for my circumstances?

On and on it goes with self defeating admissions. If I go back to step one

and admit that I am not powerless and that I can do something about, I make a

plan to overcome and stick to it by recognizing wrong thinking that

perpetuates the addictive lifestyle, then I'll have no reason to be this far

down on the list of steps.

Other than just wanting to interact with people to get out of a lonely

lifestyle, I see no reason to be at these meetings. And if I was lonely and

trying to overcome addiction and I didn't accept the beliefs of the 12 step

groups, I think it would be self defeating to attend. I think a bowling

league or something like that would be better for me than that.

If I was spiritually inclined, I would get involved with a church group. I

find the 12 step approach to spirituality to be vague at best since nobody is

encouraged to expound on their own particular beliefs in their own particular

religion or sect of.

I know that there are some very nice people in the groups who are well

meaning and who find the 12 steps to be exactly what they need and that's

cool. There are a lot of folks that I am still very good friends with who are

in them and I interact with them only outside of the meetings and I don't

discuss 12 step issues with them. I just deal with them like I do anyone

else. Those that are consumed with 12 step tunnel vision, I avoid.

I'm not criticizing anyone who likes 12 step meetings, just confused how

someone could like them and find them useful but only use a little bit of

them. I do wish them the best though and hope they get what they need.

msd

[Guest guest]

I found that once I got away from the 12 step ideology, it took less to stay

sober.

For me, the 12 steps are a mix of very little good and a lot of guilt

inducing bad. What parts of the steps that are good are canceled out either

in the next sentence or by the way they are worded.

Take the first step. Rather than just admitting I have a problem which is

truly the first step in overcoming it, it asks me to believe that my life is

completely out of control because of it and there is absolutely nothing I can

do about it because I am powerless to do so. Here lies the problem in

overcoming an addiction if I really try to accept this. If I truly believe

that I am powerless to do something about it, I am already doomed to failure.

Step 2 is unnecessary if I don't accept step one. Step 3, same as 2. Step 4

wouldn't hurt except it wants to make it a moral issue. What if I was raised

in the housing projects in a welfare family in the inner city and all my

life, all I knew was poverty and a depressed life style. Drugs and alcohol

are prevalent and I get mixed up with the wrong crowd at an early age. Am I

morally wrong for my circumstances?

On and on it goes with self defeating admissions. If I go back to step one

and admit that I am not powerless and that I can do something about, I make a

plan to overcome and stick to it by recognizing wrong thinking that

perpetuates the addictive lifestyle, then I'll have no reason to be this far

down on the list of steps.

Other than just wanting to interact with people to get out of a lonely

lifestyle, I see no reason to be at these meetings. And if I was lonely and

trying to overcome addiction and I didn't accept the beliefs of the 12 step

groups, I think it would be self defeating to attend. I think a bowling

league or something like that would be better for me than that.

If I was spiritually inclined, I would get involved with a church group. I

find the 12 step approach to spirituality to be vague at best since nobody is

encouraged to expound on their own particular beliefs in their own particular

religion or sect of.

I know that there are some very nice people in the groups who are well

meaning and who find the 12 steps to be exactly what they need and that's

cool. There are a lot of folks that I am still very good friends with who are

in them and I interact with them only outside of the meetings and I don't

discuss 12 step issues with them. I just deal with them like I do anyone

else. Those that are consumed with 12 step tunnel vision, I avoid.

I'm not criticizing anyone who likes 12 step meetings, just confused how

someone could like them and find them useful but only use a little bit of

them. I do wish them the best though and hope they get what they need.

msd

[Guest guest]

I found that once I got away from the 12 step ideology, it took less to stay

sober.

For me, the 12 steps are a mix of very little good and a lot of guilt

inducing bad. What parts of the steps that are good are canceled out either

in the next sentence or by the way they are worded.

Take the first step. Rather than just admitting I have a problem which is

truly the first step in overcoming it, it asks me to believe that my life is

completely out of control because of it and there is absolutely nothing I can

do about it because I am powerless to do so. Here lies the problem in

overcoming an addiction if I really try to accept this. If I truly believe

that I am powerless to do something about it, I am already doomed to failure.

Step 2 is unnecessary if I don't accept step one. Step 3, same as 2. Step 4

wouldn't hurt except it wants to make it a moral issue. What if I was raised

in the housing projects in a welfare family in the inner city and all my

life, all I knew was poverty and a depressed life style. Drugs and alcohol

are prevalent and I get mixed up with the wrong crowd at an early age. Am I

morally wrong for my circumstances?

On and on it goes with self defeating admissions. If I go back to step one

and admit that I am not powerless and that I can do something about, I make a

plan to overcome and stick to it by recognizing wrong thinking that

perpetuates the addictive lifestyle, then I'll have no reason to be this far

down on the list of steps.

Other than just wanting to interact with people to get out of a lonely

lifestyle, I see no reason to be at these meetings. And if I was lonely and

trying to overcome addiction and I didn't accept the beliefs of the 12 step

groups, I think it would be self defeating to attend. I think a bowling

league or something like that would be better for me than that.

If I was spiritually inclined, I would get involved with a church group. I

find the 12 step approach to spirituality to be vague at best since nobody is

encouraged to expound on their own particular beliefs in their own particular

religion or sect of.

I know that there are some very nice people in the groups who are well

meaning and who find the 12 steps to be exactly what they need and that's

cool. There are a lot of folks that I am still very good friends with who are

in them and I interact with them only outside of the meetings and I don't

discuss 12 step issues with them. I just deal with them like I do anyone

else. Those that are consumed with 12 step tunnel vision, I avoid.

I'm not criticizing anyone who likes 12 step meetings, just confused how

someone could like them and find them useful but only use a little bit of

them. I do wish them the best though and hope they get what they need.

msd

[Guest guest]

It wouldn't last long because they 'boot' anyone who does not agree

with them. Anybody who is not a 12-stepper is booted as soon as

discovered. Talk about control!

>

It would probably be a good idea to boot the MSN twelve-step club

rather than try to 'talk' to these people. You will most likely get

hurt by these " spiritual " idiots. The online steppers are no

different than the steppers in the " rooms " . I actually found the

onliners to be even more horrible since they tended to be more vile

in their flame posts towards those who they considered to not

be " working their program " properly since they communicated via a

keyboard and were not face-to-face with the member that they were

attacking. Go back quite a few pages and you can read of my

experience with one of Yahoo's twelve step clubs. If you cannot find

the post, e-mail me at camouflage@... and I would be glad to

tell you of my experiences both in the " rooms " and online. Except

for the actual meeting places in my area, I had never encountered

such a hurtful group of people yet they claimed to be saying certain

things for " my own good " . Ever notice when someone says the " own

good " mantra, it usually is an excuse their cruelty?

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults

[Guest guest]

It wouldn't last long because they 'boot' anyone who does not agree

with them. Anybody who is not a 12-stepper is booted as soon as

discovered. Talk about control!

>

It would probably be a good idea to boot the MSN twelve-step club

rather than try to 'talk' to these people. You will most likely get

hurt by these " spiritual " idiots. The online steppers are no

different than the steppers in the " rooms " . I actually found the

onliners to be even more horrible since they tended to be more vile

in their flame posts towards those who they considered to not

be " working their program " properly since they communicated via a

keyboard and were not face-to-face with the member that they were

attacking. Go back quite a few pages and you can read of my

experience with one of Yahoo's twelve step clubs. If you cannot find

the post, e-mail me at camouflage@... and I would be glad to

tell you of my experiences both in the " rooms " and online. Except

for the actual meeting places in my area, I had never encountered

such a hurtful group of people yet they claimed to be saying certain

things for " my own good " . Ever notice when someone says the " own

good " mantra, it usually is an excuse their cruelty?

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults

[Guest guest]

> ya know how they say you cant be grateful and resentful at same

> time? i think thats probably true. but after 9/11, i heard a shrink

> say it was good people were angry because anger is healthier

> than the fear it replaced. and that has probably got truth to it as

> well.

>

> i know im still angry at aa's abuses, but i try to make it a positive

> rather than a negative. without anger, there would be no

> revolution, the usa wouldn't exist if our forefathers hadn't turned

> anger into an uprising.

>

> cults generally try to discourage strong emotions, it disrupts the

> cults hypnotic spell. they much rather see followers exhibit

> numbness, something similar to AA's bland, non confrontational

> or critical " serenity "

-----------------

How true, Dave. I remember a while back there was a thread about what

would have happened if Parks were a Stepper -- she would have been " serene "

and practiced " Acceptance " and just cheerfully stood on her swollen feet while

there were loads of empty seats in the " white " section of that bus.

It may not have been the intention of the early steppers for steppism to

cause political numbness, but it damn well was of interest to Ford and

Rockefeller and other billionaire bosses who actively promoted AA to their

workers. They saw it as a way to stifle unionism, etc. Keep them " serenely "

" accepting " of whatever the bosses paid them and ordered them to do.

~Rita

[Guest guest]

> ya know how they say you cant be grateful and resentful at same

> time? i think thats probably true. but after 9/11, i heard a shrink

> say it was good people were angry because anger is healthier

> than the fear it replaced. and that has probably got truth to it as

> well.

>

> i know im still angry at aa's abuses, but i try to make it a positive

> rather than a negative. without anger, there would be no

> revolution, the usa wouldn't exist if our forefathers hadn't turned

> anger into an uprising.

>

> cults generally try to discourage strong emotions, it disrupts the

> cults hypnotic spell. they much rather see followers exhibit

> numbness, something similar to AA's bland, non confrontational

> or critical " serenity "

-----------------

How true, Dave. I remember a while back there was a thread about what

would have happened if Parks were a Stepper -- she would have been " serene "

and practiced " Acceptance " and just cheerfully stood on her swollen feet while

there were loads of empty seats in the " white " section of that bus.

It may not have been the intention of the early steppers for steppism to

cause political numbness, but it damn well was of interest to Ford and

Rockefeller and other billionaire bosses who actively promoted AA to their

workers. They saw it as a way to stifle unionism, etc. Keep them " serenely "

" accepting " of whatever the bosses paid them and ordered them to do.

~Rita