Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 Why did the LP of California endorse Prop 36? Do you think they were unaware of the situation or were they thinking in terms of lesser of two evils? Tommy > I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with the Libertarian Party. > Anyways, In there platform they are the only party I know of which opposes > forcing any individual to be held in a mental institution against their will. > As an active member of the Libertarian party, I have been educating > other members of how AA and other 12 step programs viotlate Americans of > their constitutional rights. In addition, I have been explaining to them how > such programs run off of federal, state, and local taxes. On top of all this, > these programs are used in our judicial court system to black mail people > into attending AA or go to jail. > If you see no other political party which stands in favor of the rights > of people victimized by AA check out the LIBERTARIAN PARTY. www.LP.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 I was actually asked to run for local office by the libertarian party. I have a lot of info on them, I guess I should say you. I, of course, agree with the platform on AA, but I also agree with some of the other consepts. Eliminating government spending, eliminating welfare and letting privatized institutions (who have a much better track record) give welfare, and other such ideas. I would not call myself a " member " just yet, but I am starting to agree more with the party everyday, especially now. >From: GOBAZOOKA1@... >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: The Libertarian Party >Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 17:48:02 EDT > > I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with the Libertarian Party. >Anyways, In there platform they are the only party I know of which opposes >forcing any individual to be held in a mental institution against their >will. > As an active member of the Libertarian party, I have been educating >other members of how AA and other 12 step programs viotlate Americans of >their constitutional rights. In addition, I have been explaining to them >how >such programs run off of federal, state, and local taxes. On top of all >this, >these programs are used in our judicial court system to black mail people >into attending AA or go to jail. > If you see no other political party which stands in favor of the >rights >of people victimized by AA check out the LIBERTARIAN PARTY. www.LP.org _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 I was actually asked to run for local office by the libertarian party. I have a lot of info on them, I guess I should say you. I, of course, agree with the platform on AA, but I also agree with some of the other consepts. Eliminating government spending, eliminating welfare and letting privatized institutions (who have a much better track record) give welfare, and other such ideas. I would not call myself a " member " just yet, but I am starting to agree more with the party everyday, especially now. >From: GOBAZOOKA1@... >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: The Libertarian Party >Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 17:48:02 EDT > > I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with the Libertarian Party. >Anyways, In there platform they are the only party I know of which opposes >forcing any individual to be held in a mental institution against their >will. > As an active member of the Libertarian party, I have been educating >other members of how AA and other 12 step programs viotlate Americans of >their constitutional rights. In addition, I have been explaining to them >how >such programs run off of federal, state, and local taxes. On top of all >this, >these programs are used in our judicial court system to black mail people >into attending AA or go to jail. > If you see no other political party which stands in favor of the >rights >of people victimized by AA check out the LIBERTARIAN PARTY. www.LP.org _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Tommy, I went out of my way to inform fellow Libertarians why they should have stood opposed to Proposition 36. They heard my but didn't agree with me entirely. Exposure of AA and stepism is an area where I believe the Libertarian party stands behind on. However, with more of us in the party we can provide more exposure to this very issue. For a free packet on the Libertarian party go to www.LP.org or call 1-800-elect-us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Tommy, I went out of my way to inform fellow Libertarians why they should have stood opposed to Proposition 36. They heard my but didn't agree with me entirely. Exposure of AA and stepism is an area where I believe the Libertarian party stands behind on. However, with more of us in the party we can provide more exposure to this very issue. For a free packet on the Libertarian party go to www.LP.org or call 1-800-elect-us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Tommy, I went out of my way to inform fellow Libertarians why they should have stood opposed to Proposition 36. They heard my but didn't agree with me entirely. Exposure of AA and stepism is an area where I believe the Libertarian party stands behind on. However, with more of us in the party we can provide more exposure to this very issue. For a free packet on the Libertarian party go to www.LP.org or call 1-800-elect-us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Rita, the Libertarian Party has members who on split on issues such as abortion. In fact, the platform of the party actualy leans towards a womans right to choose on abortion. But the members themselves are split on this issue. www.LP.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Rita, the Libertarian Party has members who on split on issues such as abortion. In fact, the platform of the party actualy leans towards a womans right to choose on abortion. But the members themselves are split on this issue. www.LP.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Rita, the Libertarian Party has members who on split on issues such as abortion. In fact, the platform of the party actualy leans towards a womans right to choose on abortion. But the members themselves are split on this issue. www.LP.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 I think you are referring to the Libertarians Party opposition of having abortions federaly funded. Reguardless of ones stand on abortion, they should never be federaly funded just like any other type of health care should not be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 I think you are referring to the Libertarians Party opposition of having abortions federaly funded. Reguardless of ones stand on abortion, they should never be federaly funded just like any other type of health care should not be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 I think you are referring to the Libertarians Party opposition of having abortions federaly funded. Reguardless of ones stand on abortion, they should never be federaly funded just like any other type of health care should not be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 The Libertarian Party and its fans have a habit of contradicting themselves and their purported ideals. The support of Prop. 36 (government-forced " treatment " ) is one example. Another is the support of laws which limit women's reproductive freedoms. LP speaks with a forked tongue, I'm afraid. ~Rita > > I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with the Libertarian > Party. > > Anyways, In there platform they are the only party I know of which > opposes > > forcing any individual to be held in a mental institution against > their will. > > As an active member of the Libertarian party, I have been > educating > > other members of how AA and other 12 step programs viotlate > Americans of > > their constitutional rights. In addition, I have been explaining to > them how > > such programs run off of federal, state, and local taxes. On top of > all this, > > these programs are used in our judicial court system to black mail > people > > into attending AA or go to jail. > > If you see no other political party which stands in favor of > the rights > > of people victimized by AA check out the LIBERTARIAN PARTY. > www.LP.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 At 12:01 PM 10/9/01 +0000, you wrote: > The Libertarian Party and its fans have a habit of contradicting > themselves and their purported ideals. The support of Prop. 36 > (government-forced " treatment " ) is one example. Another is the support > of laws which limit women's reproductive freedoms. LP speaks with a > forked tongue, I'm afraid. I've never heard of any Libertarian party supporting a law which limits anyone's reproductive freedom. What are you referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 At 12:01 PM 10/9/01 +0000, you wrote: > The Libertarian Party and its fans have a habit of contradicting > themselves and their purported ideals. The support of Prop. 36 > (government-forced " treatment " ) is one example. Another is the support > of laws which limit women's reproductive freedoms. LP speaks with a > forked tongue, I'm afraid. I've never heard of any Libertarian party supporting a law which limits anyone's reproductive freedom. What are you referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 I really didn't intend to make this into an abortion issue. I was hoping we can work together to bring to the attention of the Libertarian Party our experiences on how our rights and lives were harmed from AA and stepism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 > > > The Libertarian Party and its fans have a habit of contradicting > > themselves and their purported ideals. The support of Prop. 36 > > (government-forced " treatment " ) is one example. Another is the support > > of laws which limit women's reproductive freedoms. LP speaks with a > > forked tongue, I'm afraid. > > > I've never heard of any Libertarian party supporting a law which > limits anyone's reproductive freedom. What are you referring to? > > > --------------------- I've seen several Libertarian articles on Roe v. Wade in which they slam the decision, and declare that in keeping with Libertarian principles, there should be no laws which infringe on " the right of an unborn person to reside in its mother's uterus " or which allow women to " kill persons who happen to be pre-born " . Accordingly, they oppose all measures which have been passed to ensure women's right to access to abortion services (including access to the RU486 medication which expels a blastocyst days after fertilization), and support those measures which limit such access. I'll post a link to such articles, if you'd like. ~Rita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 > > > The Libertarian Party and its fans have a habit of contradicting > > themselves and their purported ideals. The support of Prop. 36 > > (government-forced " treatment " ) is one example. Another is the support > > of laws which limit women's reproductive freedoms. LP speaks with a > > forked tongue, I'm afraid. > > > I've never heard of any Libertarian party supporting a law which > limits anyone's reproductive freedom. What are you referring to? > > > --------------------- I've seen several Libertarian articles on Roe v. Wade in which they slam the decision, and declare that in keeping with Libertarian principles, there should be no laws which infringe on " the right of an unborn person to reside in its mother's uterus " or which allow women to " kill persons who happen to be pre-born " . Accordingly, they oppose all measures which have been passed to ensure women's right to access to abortion services (including access to the RU486 medication which expels a blastocyst days after fertilization), and support those measures which limit such access. I'll post a link to such articles, if you'd like. ~Rita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 At 02:52 PM 10/9/01 +0000, you wrote: > > I've never heard of any Libertarian party supporting a law which > > limits anyone's reproductive freedom. What are you referring to? > > I've seen several Libertarian articles on Roe v. Wade in which >they slam the decision, and declare that in keeping with Libertarian >principles, there should be no laws which infringe on " the right of >an unborn person to reside in its mother's uterus " or which allow >women to " kill persons who happen to be pre-born " . Accordingly, they >oppose all measures which have been passed to ensure women's right to >access to abortion services (including access to the RU486 medication >which expels a blastocyst days after fertilization), and support >those measures which limit such access. > > I'll post a link to such articles, if you'd like. Ah, you've been reading the Libertarians for Life stuff. They're not mainstream. The thrust of their argument is that, while a woman cannot be compelled to support a fetus, that doesn't give the woman the right to kill it as well as extracting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 At 02:52 PM 10/9/01 +0000, you wrote: > > I've never heard of any Libertarian party supporting a law which > > limits anyone's reproductive freedom. What are you referring to? > > I've seen several Libertarian articles on Roe v. Wade in which >they slam the decision, and declare that in keeping with Libertarian >principles, there should be no laws which infringe on " the right of >an unborn person to reside in its mother's uterus " or which allow >women to " kill persons who happen to be pre-born " . Accordingly, they >oppose all measures which have been passed to ensure women's right to >access to abortion services (including access to the RU486 medication >which expels a blastocyst days after fertilization), and support >those measures which limit such access. > > I'll post a link to such articles, if you'd like. Ah, you've been reading the Libertarians for Life stuff. They're not mainstream. The thrust of their argument is that, while a woman cannot be compelled to support a fetus, that doesn't give the woman the right to kill it as well as extracting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 At 02:52 PM 10/9/01 +0000, you wrote: > > I've never heard of any Libertarian party supporting a law which > > limits anyone's reproductive freedom. What are you referring to? > > I've seen several Libertarian articles on Roe v. Wade in which >they slam the decision, and declare that in keeping with Libertarian >principles, there should be no laws which infringe on " the right of >an unborn person to reside in its mother's uterus " or which allow >women to " kill persons who happen to be pre-born " . Accordingly, they >oppose all measures which have been passed to ensure women's right to >access to abortion services (including access to the RU486 medication >which expels a blastocyst days after fertilization), and support >those measures which limit such access. > > I'll post a link to such articles, if you'd like. Ah, you've been reading the Libertarians for Life stuff. They're not mainstream. The thrust of their argument is that, while a woman cannot be compelled to support a fetus, that doesn't give the woman the right to kill it as well as extracting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Originaly my intientions were to introduce the Libertarian Party to those who did not know of its platform in oposition of requiring people to be incarcerated in any type of group against their will. With me being a member of the Libertarian party I have been showing them how groups such as AA violate peoples rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Originaly my intientions were to introduce the Libertarian Party to those who did not know of its platform in oposition of requiring people to be incarcerated in any type of group against their will. With me being a member of the Libertarian party I have been showing them how groups such as AA violate peoples rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Originaly my intientions were to introduce the Libertarian Party to those who did not know of its platform in oposition of requiring people to be incarcerated in any type of group against their will. With me being a member of the Libertarian party I have been showing them how groups such as AA violate peoples rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 The LP has been an occasional and sometimes divisive topic on this list. I recall a few comments by Ken shortly after I joined this list three years ago. As I recall, Ken stated that he had tried to inform Libertarians about the 12-step horror story and that he said the impression he got from many of them was that there were bigger fish to fry. Also about a year and a half ago on this list a woman posted the LP link and mentioned that she was joining the party, and two members of this list went bonkers with irrational screams of disapproval. During the early through mid 90's I developed strong libertarian leanings, considering I live in an area where there are few Libertarians. In 1996 I was the first ever in my county to run for any office on the LP ticket. I ran for county commissioner (Dare County, North Carolina) in a three-way race and got 4% of the votes. I made many enemies when I began to expose the public school Ritalin tragedy. I made many enemies when I said all drugs should be legal. To this day many people in Dare County where I still live think I am a looney because of my beliefs on the drug issue. A fellow Libertarian two counties away (Perquimans County) received 20% of the votes in a two-way race where Republicans never run for office. He was a retired naval intelligence officer (CDR). We were the only two LP candidates for county commissioner seats in NE North Carolina. I had a few disagreements by telephone with some of the state LP leaders back then and I am no longer active with the party, but continue my steadfast philosophy of separation of medicine and state, education and state, and, of course, religion and state. I believe in freedom of mind, body and soul. As far as the abortion issue, it is true that the official LP platform is pro-choice but that no government funds should pay for any abortion. It is also true that many Libertarians are pro-life: http://www.l4l.org/ In 2000 one of the LP candidates for the NC House of Representatives was gay, male, and pro-life. I welcome all Libertarians and those of other affiliations to join 12 Step Coercion Watch. Things there have been a little slow, but I am not disappointed at all. We now have 39 members representing several countries. Other tragic events have grabbed the attention of all of us in the last month, but I will stick with this one. I've been on this cause for a long time. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/12-Step_Coercion_Watch Tommy http://www.angelfire.com/journal/forcedaa/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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