Guest guest Posted August 11, 2001 Report Share Posted August 11, 2001 > Cool Guy writes, " ...billions of people walking around that > believe one sort of bullshit or another in place of the truth, and > cling to that bullshit instead of discarding and finding the truth... ...but we > humans, yes we humans, as > opposed to cows or dogs or eagles, keep on believing bullshit and don't seek truth... " > > What do you mean by " truth " ? How can you be sure what is really " true " and what is not? > And what does it mean anyway when you say something is " true " ? It means it is a fact. It is correct. Not false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2001 Report Share Posted August 12, 2001 Looks like Cool Guy and I are at it again. Cool Guy spoke of truth, and I asked what he means by " truth " . He responded, " It means it is a fact. It is correct. Not false. " That sounds good at first, but it can happen that things we're so sure are true come to be disproved. Or we can come to find that things we thought were objective facts turn out to be game rules. Things we thought were scientifically sound become replaced by other theories. Things we imagine to be objectively valid turn out to be different for different observers. Things that seem so very right, so very incontrovertible, seem so weird later. While I was in AA I thought the disease concept was true. Now I don't. And some day I might come to see yet a different model. I don't have the confidence and certainty that Cool Guy appears to. I don't find it useful to think of " the truth " in anything but the most limited circumstances. I see " truth " as a kind of isomorphism between a statement and its referent. If someone says, " It's raining, " I can go and look out the window. If I see rain, I can say, " It's true. " I can say, " I have five dollars in my pocket. " If I reach in and find a five dollar bill (or five ones, if we want to nitpick). I told the " truth " . If I find only 50¢, my statement wasn't " true " . If the smarmy used car salesman with gravy stains on his tie tells me the car " runs good " , and surprise surprise, it does, then, by the living jingo, the used car salesman told me " the truth " , and I am pleasantly astonished. So I find a kind of ordinary, limited, everyday sort of use for that word. But once I get beyond this humdrum and pedestrian usage of the word, it's no longer useful. It's comfortable to have certainty, it's secure-feeling to know that I have " the truth " , it's so affirming to know I'm right because the things I know are " true " , and I'm not like those other deluded people. But I just don't have that certainty. Things just keep changing. I keep changing. New data keeps coming in. I already quoted Cool Guy, , " ...billions of people walking around that believe one sort of bullshit or another in place of the truth, and cling to that bullshit instead of discarding and finding the truth... ...but we humans, yes we humans, as opposed to cows or dogs or eagles, keep on believing bullshit and don't seek truth... " Do you believe you've found the " truth " ? Do you believe you're free of the " bullshit " that I and billions of others like me cling to? If so, you're in a better position than I am. Cheers, nz Looks like Cool Guy and I are at it again. Cool Guy spoke of truth, and I asked what he means by " truth " . He responded, " It means it is a fact. It is correct. Not false. " That sounds good at first, but it can happen that things we're so sure are true come to be disproved. Or we can come to find that things we thought were objective facts turn out to be game rules. Things we thought were scientifically sound become replaced by other theories. Things we imagine to be objectively valid turn out to be different for different observers. Things that seem so very right, so very incontrovertible, seem so weird later. While I was in AA I thought the disease concept was true. Now I don't. And some day I might come to see yet a different model. I don't have the confidence and certainty that Cool Guy appears to. I don't find it useful to think of " the truth " in anything but the most limited circumstances. I see " truth " as a kind of isomorphism between a statement and its referent. If someone says, " It's raining, " I can go and look out the window. If I see rain, I can say, " It's true. " I can say, " I have five dollars in my pocket. " If I reach in and find a five dollar bill (or five ones, if we want to nitpick). I told the " truth " . If I find only 50¢, my statement wasn't " true " . If the smarmy used car salesman with gravy stains on his tie tells me the car " runs good " , and surprise surprise, it does, then, by the living jingo, the used car salesman told me " the truth " , and I am pleasantly astonished. So I find a kind of ordinary, limited, everyday sort of use for that word. But once I get beyond this humdrum and pedestrian usage of the word, it's no longer useful. It's comfortable to have certainty, it's secure-feeling to know that I have " the truth " , it's so affirming to know I'm right because the things I know are " true " , and I'm not like those other deluded people. But I just don't have that certainty. Things just keep changing. I keep changing. New data keeps coming in. I already quoted Cool Guy, , " ...billions of people walking around that believe one sort of bullshit or another in place of the truth, and cling to that bullshit instead of discarding and finding the truth... ...but we humans, yes we humans, as opposed to cows or dogs or eagles, keep on believing bullshit and don't seek truth... " Do you believe you've found the " truth " ? Do you believe you're free of the " bullshit " that I and billions of others like me cling to? If so, you're in a better position than I am. Cheers, nz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2001 Report Share Posted August 12, 2001 Looks like Cool Guy and I are at it again. Cool Guy spoke of truth, and I asked what he means by " truth " . He responded, " It means it is a fact. It is correct. Not false. " That sounds good at first, but it can happen that things we're so sure are true come to be disproved. Or we can come to find that things we thought were objective facts turn out to be game rules. Things we thought were scientifically sound become replaced by other theories. Things we imagine to be objectively valid turn out to be different for different observers. Things that seem so very right, so very incontrovertible, seem so weird later. While I was in AA I thought the disease concept was true. Now I don't. And some day I might come to see yet a different model. I don't have the confidence and certainty that Cool Guy appears to. I don't find it useful to think of " the truth " in anything but the most limited circumstances. I see " truth " as a kind of isomorphism between a statement and its referent. If someone says, " It's raining, " I can go and look out the window. If I see rain, I can say, " It's true. " I can say, " I have five dollars in my pocket. " If I reach in and find a five dollar bill (or five ones, if we want to nitpick). I told the " truth " . If I find only 50¢, my statement wasn't " true " . If the smarmy used car salesman with gravy stains on his tie tells me the car " runs good " , and surprise surprise, it does, then, by the living jingo, the used car salesman told me " the truth " , and I am pleasantly astonished. So I find a kind of ordinary, limited, everyday sort of use for that word. But once I get beyond this humdrum and pedestrian usage of the word, it's no longer useful. It's comfortable to have certainty, it's secure-feeling to know that I have " the truth " , it's so affirming to know I'm right because the things I know are " true " , and I'm not like those other deluded people. But I just don't have that certainty. Things just keep changing. I keep changing. New data keeps coming in. I already quoted Cool Guy, , " ...billions of people walking around that believe one sort of bullshit or another in place of the truth, and cling to that bullshit instead of discarding and finding the truth... ...but we humans, yes we humans, as opposed to cows or dogs or eagles, keep on believing bullshit and don't seek truth... " Do you believe you've found the " truth " ? Do you believe you're free of the " bullshit " that I and billions of others like me cling to? If so, you're in a better position than I am. Cheers, nz Looks like Cool Guy and I are at it again. Cool Guy spoke of truth, and I asked what he means by " truth " . He responded, " It means it is a fact. It is correct. Not false. " That sounds good at first, but it can happen that things we're so sure are true come to be disproved. Or we can come to find that things we thought were objective facts turn out to be game rules. Things we thought were scientifically sound become replaced by other theories. Things we imagine to be objectively valid turn out to be different for different observers. Things that seem so very right, so very incontrovertible, seem so weird later. While I was in AA I thought the disease concept was true. Now I don't. And some day I might come to see yet a different model. I don't have the confidence and certainty that Cool Guy appears to. I don't find it useful to think of " the truth " in anything but the most limited circumstances. I see " truth " as a kind of isomorphism between a statement and its referent. If someone says, " It's raining, " I can go and look out the window. If I see rain, I can say, " It's true. " I can say, " I have five dollars in my pocket. " If I reach in and find a five dollar bill (or five ones, if we want to nitpick). I told the " truth " . If I find only 50¢, my statement wasn't " true " . If the smarmy used car salesman with gravy stains on his tie tells me the car " runs good " , and surprise surprise, it does, then, by the living jingo, the used car salesman told me " the truth " , and I am pleasantly astonished. So I find a kind of ordinary, limited, everyday sort of use for that word. But once I get beyond this humdrum and pedestrian usage of the word, it's no longer useful. It's comfortable to have certainty, it's secure-feeling to know that I have " the truth " , it's so affirming to know I'm right because the things I know are " true " , and I'm not like those other deluded people. But I just don't have that certainty. Things just keep changing. I keep changing. New data keeps coming in. I already quoted Cool Guy, , " ...billions of people walking around that believe one sort of bullshit or another in place of the truth, and cling to that bullshit instead of discarding and finding the truth... ...but we humans, yes we humans, as opposed to cows or dogs or eagles, keep on believing bullshit and don't seek truth... " Do you believe you've found the " truth " ? Do you believe you're free of the " bullshit " that I and billions of others like me cling to? If so, you're in a better position than I am. Cheers, nz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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