Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 Mona or anyone, my definitions might be screwed-up...again. Can not see the difference in these two words. Sect - a deviant religious org. with traditional beliefs and practices. Church - a conventional religious org. Traditional and conventional basically mean the same thing to me. Deviant - think they both are. See my problem? Are they the same? Netty, I posted those definitions on the LSR list. Did you mean to reply on 12 Step Free? --Mona-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 Mona or anyone, my definitions might be screwed-up...again. Can not see the difference in these two words. Sect - a deviant religious org. with traditional beliefs and practices. Church - a conventional religious org. Traditional and conventional basically mean the same thing to me. Deviant - think they both are. See my problem? Are they the same? Netty, I posted those definitions on the LSR list. Did you mean to reply on 12 Step Free? --Mona-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 Mona or anyone, my definitions might be screwed-up...again. Can not see the difference in these two words. Sect - a deviant religious org. with traditional beliefs and practices. Church - a conventional religious org. Traditional and conventional basically mean the same thing to me. Deviant - think they both are. See my problem? Are they the same? Netty, I posted those definitions on the LSR list. Did you mean to reply on 12 Step Free? --Mona-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 Thought it would be ok - am I wrong? Not at all. I just don't have the energy or inclination to duplicate the topic here. In fact, in a week or so I'll be unsubscribing from this list. --Mona-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 Thought it would be ok - am I wrong? Not at all. I just don't have the energy or inclination to duplicate the topic here. In fact, in a week or so I'll be unsubscribing from this list. --Mona-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 Thought it would be ok - am I wrong? Not at all. I just don't have the energy or inclination to duplicate the topic here. In fact, in a week or so I'll be unsubscribing from this list. --Mona-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 And Mona, if I may ask, what prompted discussing these on the LSR list? Is it alcohol-related, sobriety-related, or just plain AA-related? Not surprisingly, it is AA-related. A new member was waxing vitriolic about AA, and I posted agreement with him, except to the extent I didn't feel comfortable with the way he used the word "cult." The list is pretty active, and it is cool to watch people from all over the world getting sober. A physicist from Russia; a fellow from Kenya; several from Ireland. Most of them dislike AA, but are desperate to get and stay sober. Sometimes I fel that some on this list forget that getting sober really is a life or death matter for many, and that this fact is not just 12 Step bullshit. --Mona-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 And Mona, if I may ask, what prompted discussing these on the LSR list? Is it alcohol-related, sobriety-related, or just plain AA-related? Not surprisingly, it is AA-related. A new member was waxing vitriolic about AA, and I posted agreement with him, except to the extent I didn't feel comfortable with the way he used the word "cult." The list is pretty active, and it is cool to watch people from all over the world getting sober. A physicist from Russia; a fellow from Kenya; several from Ireland. Most of them dislike AA, but are desperate to get and stay sober. Sometimes I fel that some on this list forget that getting sober really is a life or death matter for many, and that this fact is not just 12 Step bullshit. --Mona-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 And Mona, if I may ask, what prompted discussing these on the LSR list? Is it alcohol-related, sobriety-related, or just plain AA-related? Not surprisingly, it is AA-related. A new member was waxing vitriolic about AA, and I posted agreement with him, except to the extent I didn't feel comfortable with the way he used the word "cult." The list is pretty active, and it is cool to watch people from all over the world getting sober. A physicist from Russia; a fellow from Kenya; several from Ireland. Most of them dislike AA, but are desperate to get and stay sober. Sometimes I fel that some on this list forget that getting sober really is a life or death matter for many, and that this fact is not just 12 Step bullshit. --Mona-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 Hi, Mona or anyone, my definitions might be screwed-up...again. Can not see the difference in these two words. Sect - a deviant religious org. with traditional beliefs and practices. Church - a conventional religious org. Traditional and conventional basically mean the same thing to me. Deviant - think they both are. See my problem? Are they the same? netty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 > > > > Netty, I posted those definitions on the LSR list. Did you mean to reply on > 12 Step Free? > > --Mona-- Mona, I know you did. My posts don't go through over there. Sent a few, must be flying around in space, never showed up. I really don't mind - rather just lurk there for awhile. Checking it out. Is this off-topic here? I thought it could pertain. Thought it would be ok - am I wrong? netty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 > > > > Netty, I posted those definitions on the LSR list. Did you mean to reply on > 12 Step Free? > > --Mona-- Mona, I know you did. My posts don't go through over there. Sent a few, must be flying around in space, never showed up. I really don't mind - rather just lurk there for awhile. Checking it out. Is this off-topic here? I thought it could pertain. Thought it would be ok - am I wrong? netty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 > > > > Netty, I posted those definitions on the LSR list. Did you mean to reply on > 12 Step Free? > > --Mona-- Mona, I know you did. My posts don't go through over there. Sent a few, must be flying around in space, never showed up. I really don't mind - rather just lurk there for awhile. Checking it out. Is this off-topic here? I thought it could pertain. Thought it would be ok - am I wrong? netty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 At 01:11 AM 8/8/01 -0000, caenemy@... wrote: >> > >> >> Netty, I posted those definitions on the LSR list. Did you mean to >reply on >> 12 Step Free? >> >> --Mona-- > > > Mona, > I know you did. My posts don't go through over there. Is this Tom 's list that used to be sosmail? How is it over there? When I left, was it 1999 or 1998, the list was consistently getting over 100 messages a day. >Sent a few, >must be flying around in space, never showed up. I really don't >mind - rather just lurk there for awhile. Checking it out. >Is this off-topic here? I thought it could pertain. Thought it >would be ok - am I wrong? >netty I think it's okay, though I wonder what brought it up. I always like to go to the dictionary definitions, since about 95 percent of the time it has as much as I want to know about a word. Here are links to definitions of sect and church: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=sect> http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=church> It seems they have a good bit of overlap, though church appears to describe a more 'mainstream' entity, and sect 1a seems to approach the definition of cult. And Mona, if I may ask, what prompted discussing these on the LSR list? Is it alcohol-related, sobriety-related, or just plain AA-related? ---------- http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 At 01:11 AM 8/8/01 -0000, caenemy@... wrote: >> > >> >> Netty, I posted those definitions on the LSR list. Did you mean to >reply on >> 12 Step Free? >> >> --Mona-- > > > Mona, > I know you did. My posts don't go through over there. Is this Tom 's list that used to be sosmail? How is it over there? When I left, was it 1999 or 1998, the list was consistently getting over 100 messages a day. >Sent a few, >must be flying around in space, never showed up. I really don't >mind - rather just lurk there for awhile. Checking it out. >Is this off-topic here? I thought it could pertain. Thought it >would be ok - am I wrong? >netty I think it's okay, though I wonder what brought it up. I always like to go to the dictionary definitions, since about 95 percent of the time it has as much as I want to know about a word. Here are links to definitions of sect and church: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=sect> http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=church> It seems they have a good bit of overlap, though church appears to describe a more 'mainstream' entity, and sect 1a seems to approach the definition of cult. And Mona, if I may ask, what prompted discussing these on the LSR list? Is it alcohol-related, sobriety-related, or just plain AA-related? ---------- http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 At 01:11 AM 8/8/01 -0000, caenemy@... wrote: >> > >> >> Netty, I posted those definitions on the LSR list. Did you mean to >reply on >> 12 Step Free? >> >> --Mona-- > > > Mona, > I know you did. My posts don't go through over there. Is this Tom 's list that used to be sosmail? How is it over there? When I left, was it 1999 or 1998, the list was consistently getting over 100 messages a day. >Sent a few, >must be flying around in space, never showed up. I really don't >mind - rather just lurk there for awhile. Checking it out. >Is this off-topic here? I thought it could pertain. Thought it >would be ok - am I wrong? >netty I think it's okay, though I wonder what brought it up. I always like to go to the dictionary definitions, since about 95 percent of the time it has as much as I want to know about a word. Here are links to definitions of sect and church: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=sect> http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=church> It seems they have a good bit of overlap, though church appears to describe a more 'mainstream' entity, and sect 1a seems to approach the definition of cult. And Mona, if I may ask, what prompted discussing these on the LSR list? Is it alcohol-related, sobriety-related, or just plain AA-related? ---------- http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 --- caenemy@... wrote: > > Hi, Hi netty, A these are Mona's definitions she is the one to really comment, but my impression is that " deviant " here means simply " breaking away from " rather than " perverse " . I think the idea is that a *Sect* has usually broken away from a conventional church but retains most of the traditional beliefs and practices. The sociologist Wallace suggested a nosology of three different kinds of modern sect, which he called Word Rejecting, World Accepting, and World Affirming. I believe AA is a kind of hybrid of the last two. World Accepting sects are fairly benign and this is the " public image " of AA. However, World Affirming Sects are exploitative groups like Scientology and some sociologists refer to these as " cults " . Fortunately AA is not like the World Rejecting Group (yet?) which include the classic suicidal 'cults' like Waco, town, Heavens Gate, etc. Will say ore after some sleep. P. > Mona or anyone, my definitions might be > screwed-up...again. > Can not see the difference in these two words. > Sect - a deviant religious org. with traditional > beliefs and > practices. > Church - a conventional religious org. > Traditional and conventional basically mean the > same thing to me. > Deviant - think they both are. > See my problem? Are they the same? > netty > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 --- caenemy@... wrote: > > Hi, Hi netty, A these are Mona's definitions she is the one to really comment, but my impression is that " deviant " here means simply " breaking away from " rather than " perverse " . I think the idea is that a *Sect* has usually broken away from a conventional church but retains most of the traditional beliefs and practices. The sociologist Wallace suggested a nosology of three different kinds of modern sect, which he called Word Rejecting, World Accepting, and World Affirming. I believe AA is a kind of hybrid of the last two. World Accepting sects are fairly benign and this is the " public image " of AA. However, World Affirming Sects are exploitative groups like Scientology and some sociologists refer to these as " cults " . Fortunately AA is not like the World Rejecting Group (yet?) which include the classic suicidal 'cults' like Waco, town, Heavens Gate, etc. Will say ore after some sleep. P. > Mona or anyone, my definitions might be > screwed-up...again. > Can not see the difference in these two words. > Sect - a deviant religious org. with traditional > beliefs and > practices. > Church - a conventional religious org. > Traditional and conventional basically mean the > same thing to me. > Deviant - think they both are. > See my problem? Are they the same? > netty > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 I would say this is very on topic for 12sf, imo. P. --- Ben Bradley benbradley@...> wrote: > And Mona, if I may ask, what prompted discussing > these on the > LSR list? Is it alcohol-related, sobriety-related, > or just plain > AA-related? __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 I would say this is very on topic for 12sf, imo. P. --- Ben Bradley benbradley@...> wrote: > And Mona, if I may ask, what prompted discussing > these on the > LSR list? Is it alcohol-related, sobriety-related, > or just plain > AA-related? __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 I would say this is very on topic for 12sf, imo. P. --- Ben Bradley benbradley@...> wrote: > And Mona, if I may ask, what prompted discussing > these on the > LSR list? Is it alcohol-related, sobriety-related, > or just plain > AA-related? __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 Hi Ben, > > Is this Tom 's list that used to be sosmail? How is it over > there? When I left, was it 1999 or 1998, the list was consistently > getting over 100 messages a day. > Yes - Tom 's list. sos mail ? Seem like nice people. > > I think it's okay, though I wonder what brought it up. Very interested in this topic, believe I was in a 'cult'. And AA was used as a front group. The more I read and study - the more I see AA as a cult in its self. I think the 'traditions' save them from being labled 'cult' more often. Church - some denominations that are acceptable now, weren't at one time. I find this all very interesting and have much to learn. > I always like to go to the dictionary definitions, since about > 95 percent of the time it has as much as I want to know about a word. Did this - but did not help with these two words. > Here are links to definitions of sect and church: > http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=sect> > http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=church> Thank-you for this assistance. Using different dictionaries is sometimes very helpful. > It seems they have a good bit of overlap, though church appears to > describe a more 'mainstream' entity, and sect 1a seems to approach > the definition of cult. I agree - but the dictionary doesn't say this. netty > PS - I in no way meant to upset Mona. She seems very informed about this subject,would like to reap some of that. This is my favorite list, most comfy here - kinda know most of your names. 12-step free fits better then LSR for me. Feel both lists are very important. I see that they serve different needs, for different places in peoples lifes. And both could compliment each other. > ---------- > http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 Hi Ben, > > Is this Tom 's list that used to be sosmail? How is it over > there? When I left, was it 1999 or 1998, the list was consistently > getting over 100 messages a day. > Yes - Tom 's list. sos mail ? Seem like nice people. > > I think it's okay, though I wonder what brought it up. Very interested in this topic, believe I was in a 'cult'. And AA was used as a front group. The more I read and study - the more I see AA as a cult in its self. I think the 'traditions' save them from being labled 'cult' more often. Church - some denominations that are acceptable now, weren't at one time. I find this all very interesting and have much to learn. > I always like to go to the dictionary definitions, since about > 95 percent of the time it has as much as I want to know about a word. Did this - but did not help with these two words. > Here are links to definitions of sect and church: > http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=sect> > http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=church> Thank-you for this assistance. Using different dictionaries is sometimes very helpful. > It seems they have a good bit of overlap, though church appears to > describe a more 'mainstream' entity, and sect 1a seems to approach > the definition of cult. I agree - but the dictionary doesn't say this. netty > PS - I in no way meant to upset Mona. She seems very informed about this subject,would like to reap some of that. This is my favorite list, most comfy here - kinda know most of your names. 12-step free fits better then LSR for me. Feel both lists are very important. I see that they serve different needs, for different places in peoples lifes. And both could compliment each other. > ---------- > http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 Hi Ben, > > Is this Tom 's list that used to be sosmail? How is it over > there? When I left, was it 1999 or 1998, the list was consistently > getting over 100 messages a day. > Yes - Tom 's list. sos mail ? Seem like nice people. > > I think it's okay, though I wonder what brought it up. Very interested in this topic, believe I was in a 'cult'. And AA was used as a front group. The more I read and study - the more I see AA as a cult in its self. I think the 'traditions' save them from being labled 'cult' more often. Church - some denominations that are acceptable now, weren't at one time. I find this all very interesting and have much to learn. > I always like to go to the dictionary definitions, since about > 95 percent of the time it has as much as I want to know about a word. Did this - but did not help with these two words. > Here are links to definitions of sect and church: > http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=sect> > http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=church> Thank-you for this assistance. Using different dictionaries is sometimes very helpful. > It seems they have a good bit of overlap, though church appears to > describe a more 'mainstream' entity, and sect 1a seems to approach > the definition of cult. I agree - but the dictionary doesn't say this. netty > PS - I in no way meant to upset Mona. She seems very informed about this subject,would like to reap some of that. This is my favorite list, most comfy here - kinda know most of your names. 12-step free fits better then LSR for me. Feel both lists are very important. I see that they serve different needs, for different places in peoples lifes. And both could compliment each other. > ---------- > http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 > >> > A these are Mona's definitions she is the one to > really comment, but my impression is that " deviant " > here means simply " breaking away from " rather than > " perverse " . I think the idea is that a *Sect* has > usually broken away from a conventional church but > retains most of the traditional beliefs and practices. Hi Pete, 'breaking away from' yes, that helps - clears that up- better ask Mona if that's what she meant. > > The sociologist Wallace suggested a nosology of three > different kinds of modern sect, which he called Word > Rejecting, World Accepting, and World Affirming. I > believe AA is a kind of hybrid of the last two. World > Accepting sects are fairly benign and this is the > " public image " of AA. However, World Affirming Sects > are exploitative groups like Scientology and some > sociologists refer to these as " cults " . Fortunately > AA is not like the World Rejecting Group (yet?) which > include the classic suicidal 'cults' like Waco, > town, Heavens Gate, etc. Will say ore after some > sleep. > > P. > Good, cause this is very interesting stuff. netty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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