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Helen, you have not broken any news to me. I knew I was not doing high

carb. The point is that I have not been TRYING to do high or low or

any kind of a carb diet. Except smart carbs. If I ended it up what you

call a moderate carb diet, so be it. That is what my meter said I

could eat, so I ate it.

But, when I hear folks on this list talk about doing the low carb

thing, I get the impression that they are talking total carbs,

including the fiber. So from that point of view, my 120-200 grams of

total carb per day would be considered high carb, right? In fact, I

think Cappie once told me that I eat more (total) carbs in one day

than some folks on this list eat in a whole week.

Since you have sort of touched on a related subject, as did another

thread today, let me say that one of the things I was riduculed for

when I first started posting was that my diet guidelines ALLOWED 45 to

70 gm of net carbs per meal (total minus fiber). Folks said (and still

say) that I paid for nothing more than the ADA diet. What those folks

never seem to understand is that I paid for guidelines, not commands.

I paid for knowledge, not a cure.

The main thing that the Lifestyle Center of America taught me was to

do what was right for me. They taught me some basics, such as the

importance of exercise, and gave me a bunch of knowledge, but they

always stressed to do only what works for me. In other words, they

taught me to take guidelines and fit them to me, not try to make me

fit any guidelines.

But enough about the Center already. We already know the general

opinion this list has of the place. And I am obviously still a very

satisfied customer going against the consensus. Such things make life

interesting.

For what it is worth, some folks have said that they got the same

degree of control that I now have, just by reading books and doing

lists. Great. For them. I know there is no way it would have worked

for me. For me, it took spending all that money to see up close and

personal that control was possible.

Your milage may vary.

P.S. - I am still NOT on their payroll. I don't even get a referral

fee. And they are still a non-profit outfit.

> , I hate to be the one to break the news to you - 60 to 100

carbs a

> day is considered moderate low carbing. 30 to 60 is considered

strict

> low carbing.

>

> The ADA diet that I was on called for 6 to 8 servings of starch a

day,

> which is 90 to 120 grams of carb, four fruits a day, another 40

grams,

> veggies, including many that they said were free, say another 40

grams

> per day, and two glasses of non fat milk, 20 or 30 grams? So we

have

> about 220+ on a 1200 calorie diet. That's high carb. Because of

the

> caloric restrictions, there was only one pat of butter allowed per

day

> and four ounces of lean meat. All done with exchanges.

>

> Quite frankly, it worked. I lost about 30 pounds and had normalized

bgs

> without any medication for several years. But things changed.

>

> Helen

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, we all have different ways and different places that we use to

become motivated. If you are a very visual person, the center probably

offered you the most useful education. Education is not free and value

is in the eye of the beholder. If you feel you got your money's worth

and then some, then you have actually received something priceless.

I am a book oriented person, I learn from print and visualization. From

the beginning of this journey in 1983, I have read thousands of words on

various aspects of health and disease. Perhaps I have not spent the same

amount of money as you did, unless you want to count the cost of several

computers, but I have spent scores of hours.

You have your way, I have mine, others have other ways. All roads lead

to the same goal, good control; therefore all roads are equally valid.

Helen

PS What dosage are you taking of byetta? If you have not yet gone to

the 10mcg twice a day, perhaps when you do you will see better morning

numbers. Any nausea?

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, we all have different ways and different places that we use to

become motivated. If you are a very visual person, the center probably

offered you the most useful education. Education is not free and value

is in the eye of the beholder. If you feel you got your money's worth

and then some, then you have actually received something priceless.

I am a book oriented person, I learn from print and visualization. From

the beginning of this journey in 1983, I have read thousands of words on

various aspects of health and disease. Perhaps I have not spent the same

amount of money as you did, unless you want to count the cost of several

computers, but I have spent scores of hours.

You have your way, I have mine, others have other ways. All roads lead

to the same goal, good control; therefore all roads are equally valid.

Helen

PS What dosage are you taking of byetta? If you have not yet gone to

the 10mcg twice a day, perhaps when you do you will see better morning

numbers. Any nausea?

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, we all have different ways and different places that we use to

become motivated. If you are a very visual person, the center probably

offered you the most useful education. Education is not free and value

is in the eye of the beholder. If you feel you got your money's worth

and then some, then you have actually received something priceless.

I am a book oriented person, I learn from print and visualization. From

the beginning of this journey in 1983, I have read thousands of words on

various aspects of health and disease. Perhaps I have not spent the same

amount of money as you did, unless you want to count the cost of several

computers, but I have spent scores of hours.

You have your way, I have mine, others have other ways. All roads lead

to the same goal, good control; therefore all roads are equally valid.

Helen

PS What dosage are you taking of byetta? If you have not yet gone to

the 10mcg twice a day, perhaps when you do you will see better morning

numbers. Any nausea?

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In a message dated 8/11/2005 1:42:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,

jgd@... writes:

> Unless you're the very rare individual who doesn't work well with Lantus,

If the " very rare " qualifier stems from a formal investigation, please post

the reference. Its so difficult to find this sort of technical data.

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In a message dated 8/11/2005 1:42:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,

jgd@... writes:

> Unless you're the very rare individual who doesn't work well with Lantus,

If the " very rare " qualifier stems from a formal investigation, please post

the reference. Its so difficult to find this sort of technical data.

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> Quite frankly, it worked. I lost about 30 pounds and had normalized bgs

> without any medication for several years. But things changed.

The real question, which no one can really answer, is whether all those

carbs that let you lose weight were what made things change.

Gretchen

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> Quite frankly, it worked. I lost about 30 pounds and had normalized bgs

> without any medication for several years. But things changed.

The real question, which no one can really answer, is whether all those

carbs that let you lose weight were what made things change.

Gretchen

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> > What is an ancho-vegetarian?

>

> A vegetarian who eats anchovies? A vegetarian well anchored to

reality?

>

> Gretchen

Anchovies are VERY important in helping me maintain whatever grasp of

reality that I have.

I will leave it to others to decide just how strong that grasp is. LOL

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I don't think it's so rare, either. I'm active on 3 diabetes lists and

there have certainly been more than " rare " reports of Lantus not

working. It certainly didn't work for me - pooped out at 19 hours. I

know, this can be alleviated by splitting dose and taking it twice a

day. But supposedly one of the major advertised advantages of Lantus was

that it only needed to be taken once a day.

If it needs to be taken twice a day, you might as well go go with

Ultralente, which, taken twice a day, gives a smooth curve and costs

less than half as much as Lantus. (This is the insulin that's being

discontinued end of 2005, alas.)

Vicki, sad and mad UL booster

Re: 's A1c Results

> In a message dated 8/11/2005 1:42:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> jgd@... writes:

>

>> Unless you're the very rare individual who doesn't work well with

>> Lantus,

>

> If the " very rare " qualifier stems from a formal investigation, please

> post

> the reference. Its so difficult to find this sort of technical data.

>

>

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I don't think it's so rare, either. I'm active on 3 diabetes lists and

there have certainly been more than " rare " reports of Lantus not

working. It certainly didn't work for me - pooped out at 19 hours. I

know, this can be alleviated by splitting dose and taking it twice a

day. But supposedly one of the major advertised advantages of Lantus was

that it only needed to be taken once a day.

If it needs to be taken twice a day, you might as well go go with

Ultralente, which, taken twice a day, gives a smooth curve and costs

less than half as much as Lantus. (This is the insulin that's being

discontinued end of 2005, alas.)

Vicki, sad and mad UL booster

Re: 's A1c Results

> In a message dated 8/11/2005 1:42:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> jgd@... writes:

>

>> Unless you're the very rare individual who doesn't work well with

>> Lantus,

>

> If the " very rare " qualifier stems from a formal investigation, please

> post

> the reference. Its so difficult to find this sort of technical data.

>

>

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I don't think it's so rare, either. I'm active on 3 diabetes lists and

there have certainly been more than " rare " reports of Lantus not

working. It certainly didn't work for me - pooped out at 19 hours. I

know, this can be alleviated by splitting dose and taking it twice a

day. But supposedly one of the major advertised advantages of Lantus was

that it only needed to be taken once a day.

If it needs to be taken twice a day, you might as well go go with

Ultralente, which, taken twice a day, gives a smooth curve and costs

less than half as much as Lantus. (This is the insulin that's being

discontinued end of 2005, alas.)

Vicki, sad and mad UL booster

Re: 's A1c Results

> In a message dated 8/11/2005 1:42:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> jgd@... writes:

>

>> Unless you're the very rare individual who doesn't work well with

>> Lantus,

>

> If the " very rare " qualifier stems from a formal investigation, please

> post

> the reference. Its so difficult to find this sort of technical data.

>

>

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i am type 2,no medication,just watching crabs and exercise,so far i have been

doing good. i am also meter freak.how will know when i need to start on

medicine.i have been reading where sometime one probley will have to start on

medication?

Helen Mueller wrote:, I hate to be the one to break

the news to you - 60 to 100 carbs a

day is considered moderate low carbing. 30 to 60 is considered strict

low carbing.

The ADA diet that I was on called for 6 to 8 servings of starch a day,

which is 90 to 120 grams of carb, four fruits a day, another 40 grams,

veggies, including many that they said were free, say another 40 grams

per day, and two glasses of non fat milk, 20 or 30 grams? So we have

about 220+ on a 1200 calorie diet. That's high carb. Because of the

caloric restrictions, there was only one pat of butter allowed per day

and four ounces of lean meat. All done with exchanges.

Quite frankly, it worked. I lost about 30 pounds and had normalized bgs

without any medication for several years. But things changed.

Helen

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Watching the crabs won't help your BGs much <g> sorry, ,

....couldn't resist that.

Seriously though, the time to start on meds is when diet and exercise

don't meet BG goals. Which I believe are: no more than 140 an hour after

eating; no more than 120 2 hours after. And if I'm wrong someone is

sure to correct me, smile.

The closer to 100 you are, the better.

Vicki

Re: Re: 's A1c Results

>i am type 2,no medication,just watching crabs and exercise,so far i

>have been doing good. i am also meter freak.how will know when i need

>to start on medicine.i have been reading where sometime one probley

>will have to start on medication?

>

> Helen Mueller wrote:, I hate to be the

> one to break the news to you - 60 to 100 carbs a

> day is considered moderate low carbing. 30 to 60 is considered strict

> low carbing.

>

> The ADA diet that I was on called for 6 to 8 servings of starch a day,

> which is 90 to 120 grams of carb, four fruits a day, another 40 grams,

> veggies, including many that they said were free, say another 40 grams

> per day, and two glasses of non fat milk, 20 or 30 grams? So we have

> about 220+ on a 1200 calorie diet. That's high carb. Because of the

> caloric restrictions, there was only one pat of butter allowed per day

> and four ounces of lean meat. All done with exchanges.

>

> Quite frankly, it worked. I lost about 30 pounds and had normalized

> bgs

> without any medication for several years. But things changed.

>

> Helen

>

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Watching the crabs won't help your BGs much <g> sorry, ,

....couldn't resist that.

Seriously though, the time to start on meds is when diet and exercise

don't meet BG goals. Which I believe are: no more than 140 an hour after

eating; no more than 120 2 hours after. And if I'm wrong someone is

sure to correct me, smile.

The closer to 100 you are, the better.

Vicki

Re: Re: 's A1c Results

>i am type 2,no medication,just watching crabs and exercise,so far i

>have been doing good. i am also meter freak.how will know when i need

>to start on medicine.i have been reading where sometime one probley

>will have to start on medication?

>

> Helen Mueller wrote:, I hate to be the

> one to break the news to you - 60 to 100 carbs a

> day is considered moderate low carbing. 30 to 60 is considered strict

> low carbing.

>

> The ADA diet that I was on called for 6 to 8 servings of starch a day,

> which is 90 to 120 grams of carb, four fruits a day, another 40 grams,

> veggies, including many that they said were free, say another 40 grams

> per day, and two glasses of non fat milk, 20 or 30 grams? So we have

> about 220+ on a 1200 calorie diet. That's high carb. Because of the

> caloric restrictions, there was only one pat of butter allowed per day

> and four ounces of lean meat. All done with exchanges.

>

> Quite frankly, it worked. I lost about 30 pounds and had normalized

> bgs

> without any medication for several years. But things changed.

>

> Helen

>

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