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>we can wallow and sing the pity song-or we can rise above it and see beyond

it.<

ly, I don't see anyone wallowing in self-pity on this list. IMO, there's

nothing wrong with talking about what we are going through. Are there people

worse off? Sure. But another person's pain and suffering doesn't lessen mine.

In my case, it just makes me feel sadder.

We all have our challenges, some more than others. Does trying to make people

feel guilty about their pain *help* anyone?

Dianne

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>we can wallow and sing the pity song-or we can rise above it and see beyond

it.<

ly, I don't see anyone wallowing in self-pity on this list. IMO, there's

nothing wrong with talking about what we are going through. Are there people

worse off? Sure. But another person's pain and suffering doesn't lessen mine.

In my case, it just makes me feel sadder.

We all have our challenges, some more than others. Does trying to make people

feel guilty about their pain *help* anyone?

Dianne

Thank you for saying what I could not Dianne - I never felt that having

depression was singing the " pity " song.

Barb

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>we can wallow and sing the pity song-or we can rise above it and see beyond

it.<

ly, I don't see anyone wallowing in self-pity on this list. IMO, there's

nothing wrong with talking about what we are going through. Are there people

worse off? Sure. But another person's pain and suffering doesn't lessen mine.

In my case, it just makes me feel sadder.

We all have our challenges, some more than others. Does trying to make people

feel guilty about their pain *help* anyone?

Dianne

Thank you for saying what I could not Dianne - I never felt that having

depression was singing the " pity " song.

Barb

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>Thank you for saying what I could not Dianne - I never felt that having

depression was singing the " pity " song.<

It isn't, Barb, any more than discussing running a high fever or breaking a leg

is self-pity. Depression isn't " the blues " and it doesn't go away by itself

just because we want it to.

Grrrrrr... It makes me really mad. I've been " guilted " within an inch of my

life and I don't stand for it any more.

Hugs, Dianne

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>Thank you for saying what I could not Dianne - I never felt that having

depression was singing the " pity " song.<

It isn't, Barb, any more than discussing running a high fever or breaking a leg

is self-pity. Depression isn't " the blues " and it doesn't go away by itself

just because we want it to.

Grrrrrr... It makes me really mad. I've been " guilted " within an inch of my

life and I don't stand for it any more.

Hugs, Dianne

__________________________________________________

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>Thank you for saying what I could not Dianne - I never felt that having

depression was singing the " pity " song.<

It isn't, Barb, any more than discussing running a high fever or breaking a leg

is self-pity. Depression isn't " the blues " and it doesn't go away by itself

just because we want it to.

Grrrrrr... It makes me really mad. I've been " guilted " within an inch of my

life and I don't stand for it any more.

Hugs, Dianne

__________________________________________________

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Hey Everyone,

I wasn't trying to make anyone feel guilty about the

pains they are dealing with. It is just that we can

give in to it, which is really dangerous or we can

fight like hell to overcome it. I have had my periods

of depression. Luckily, I have a daughter that needed

me. I also believe that suicide is the easy way out.

This is just me. I have struggled with many different

things over my life time. Too many to go through and

most people don't want to hear it any way. So, I don't

complain, I just keep going forward. I know how I want

my life to be and I try to get to that point every

day. So, I hope you all find what you need to get to

your good spot.

Take care,

__________________________________________________

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Hey Everyone,

I wasn't trying to make anyone feel guilty about the

pains they are dealing with. It is just that we can

give in to it, which is really dangerous or we can

fight like hell to overcome it. I have had my periods

of depression. Luckily, I have a daughter that needed

me. I also believe that suicide is the easy way out.

This is just me. I have struggled with many different

things over my life time. Too many to go through and

most people don't want to hear it any way. So, I don't

complain, I just keep going forward. I know how I want

my life to be and I try to get to that point every

day. So, I hope you all find what you need to get to

your good spot.

Take care,

__________________________________________________

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Hey Everyone,

I wasn't trying to make anyone feel guilty about the

pains they are dealing with. It is just that we can

give in to it, which is really dangerous or we can

fight like hell to overcome it. I have had my periods

of depression. Luckily, I have a daughter that needed

me. I also believe that suicide is the easy way out.

This is just me. I have struggled with many different

things over my life time. Too many to go through and

most people don't want to hear it any way. So, I don't

complain, I just keep going forward. I know how I want

my life to be and I try to get to that point every

day. So, I hope you all find what you need to get to

your good spot.

Take care,

__________________________________________________

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, what makes you think people on this list are giving in to their

depression and pain? I think this subject was brought up by discussing

foods and moods and controlling diabetes and helping Edd's friend. Just

exchanging info can be helpful for some. I know I learned new things that

will help me understand my cravings for food that will raise my bg's.

Depression is not the same for everyone. You were lucky to fight your way

through it. I certainly wanted a more functional life. Many of us have

children that need us. No offense but most of us love our kids as much as

you do yours. I raised 4 children by myself and they are all functional and

educated. I was mostly depressed when I wasn't manic and buying them a pony

or having truckloads of beach sand delivered. :o) It just isn't so simple

for everybody but most of us are doing our best to struggle along.

Depression and physical pain do complicate taking care of our diabetes so I

appreciated this topic today.

Suicide may seem the easy way out in your mind. It's more likely the person

is in so much emotional pain and thinks there is no way out so isn't

thinking rationally. Very sad. Another good reason for people to share so

others in pain might find something to hope for and see they are not alone.

Laurel

> I wasn't trying to make anyone feel guilty about the

> pains they are dealing with. It is just that we can

> give in to it, which is really dangerous or we can

> fight like hell to overcome it. I have had my periods

> of depression. Luckily, I have a daughter that needed

> me. I also believe that suicide is the easy way out.

> This is just me. >

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, what makes you think people on this list are giving in to their

depression and pain? I think this subject was brought up by discussing

foods and moods and controlling diabetes and helping Edd's friend. Just

exchanging info can be helpful for some. I know I learned new things that

will help me understand my cravings for food that will raise my bg's.

Depression is not the same for everyone. You were lucky to fight your way

through it. I certainly wanted a more functional life. Many of us have

children that need us. No offense but most of us love our kids as much as

you do yours. I raised 4 children by myself and they are all functional and

educated. I was mostly depressed when I wasn't manic and buying them a pony

or having truckloads of beach sand delivered. :o) It just isn't so simple

for everybody but most of us are doing our best to struggle along.

Depression and physical pain do complicate taking care of our diabetes so I

appreciated this topic today.

Suicide may seem the easy way out in your mind. It's more likely the person

is in so much emotional pain and thinks there is no way out so isn't

thinking rationally. Very sad. Another good reason for people to share so

others in pain might find something to hope for and see they are not alone.

Laurel

> I wasn't trying to make anyone feel guilty about the

> pains they are dealing with. It is just that we can

> give in to it, which is really dangerous or we can

> fight like hell to overcome it. I have had my periods

> of depression. Luckily, I have a daughter that needed

> me. I also believe that suicide is the easy way out.

> This is just me. >

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, what makes you think people on this list are giving in to their

depression and pain? I think this subject was brought up by discussing

foods and moods and controlling diabetes and helping Edd's friend. Just

exchanging info can be helpful for some. I know I learned new things that

will help me understand my cravings for food that will raise my bg's.

Depression is not the same for everyone. You were lucky to fight your way

through it. I certainly wanted a more functional life. Many of us have

children that need us. No offense but most of us love our kids as much as

you do yours. I raised 4 children by myself and they are all functional and

educated. I was mostly depressed when I wasn't manic and buying them a pony

or having truckloads of beach sand delivered. :o) It just isn't so simple

for everybody but most of us are doing our best to struggle along.

Depression and physical pain do complicate taking care of our diabetes so I

appreciated this topic today.

Suicide may seem the easy way out in your mind. It's more likely the person

is in so much emotional pain and thinks there is no way out so isn't

thinking rationally. Very sad. Another good reason for people to share so

others in pain might find something to hope for and see they are not alone.

Laurel

> I wasn't trying to make anyone feel guilty about the

> pains they are dealing with. It is just that we can

> give in to it, which is really dangerous or we can

> fight like hell to overcome it. I have had my periods

> of depression. Luckily, I have a daughter that needed

> me. I also believe that suicide is the easy way out.

> This is just me. >

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I never really thought you were trying to make me feel guilty. I don't

feel guilt anymore, about anything. My first thought was of

Reagan and her just say no campaign. It came across to me as just say

no to pain. We all have alot in common on this list, but we all walk

different paths. How can we judge how another reacts to a given

situation, without knowing the different paths that led them there. I

respect your strength in dealing with the things you've gone through,

but sometimes what we need is a hug. Thats sorta what this is about. I

need hugs and so do others. Its not so easy gettin and givin hugs

online, but it can be done. Here . . . I'll prove it to ya ((((HUG)))!

I have a great wife and can ask for a hug anytime I want one. Its not

a problem with her. But if I tell her every time I feel down then she

will feel down too. Thats where outside support comes in. As for

suicide being easy. . . I recently had a friend end his life. I sang

at his funeral. He was dying of cancer and just couldn't deal with it

any longer. What would be the point of continued suffering? I don't

think it was easy for him to make the decision. I think about it,

almost daily. Its not easy to think about. Don't get me wrong, I'm not

thinking about doing anything in the immediate future. But I can

understand why some people feel the need to leave this world.

> I wasn't trying to make anyone feel guilty about the

> pains they are dealing with. It is just that we can

> give in to it, which is really dangerous or we can

> fight like hell to overcome it. I have had my periods

> of depression. Luckily, I have a daughter that needed

> me. I also believe that suicide is the easy way out.

> This is just me. I have struggled with many different

> things over my life time. Too many to go through and

> most people don't want to hear it any way. So, I don't

> complain, I just keep going forward. I know how I want

> my life to be and I try to get to that point every

> day. So, I hope you all find what you need to get to

> your good spot.

>

> Take care,

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

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I never really thought you were trying to make me feel guilty. I don't

feel guilt anymore, about anything. My first thought was of

Reagan and her just say no campaign. It came across to me as just say

no to pain. We all have alot in common on this list, but we all walk

different paths. How can we judge how another reacts to a given

situation, without knowing the different paths that led them there. I

respect your strength in dealing with the things you've gone through,

but sometimes what we need is a hug. Thats sorta what this is about. I

need hugs and so do others. Its not so easy gettin and givin hugs

online, but it can be done. Here . . . I'll prove it to ya ((((HUG)))!

I have a great wife and can ask for a hug anytime I want one. Its not

a problem with her. But if I tell her every time I feel down then she

will feel down too. Thats where outside support comes in. As for

suicide being easy. . . I recently had a friend end his life. I sang

at his funeral. He was dying of cancer and just couldn't deal with it

any longer. What would be the point of continued suffering? I don't

think it was easy for him to make the decision. I think about it,

almost daily. Its not easy to think about. Don't get me wrong, I'm not

thinking about doing anything in the immediate future. But I can

understand why some people feel the need to leave this world.

> I wasn't trying to make anyone feel guilty about the

> pains they are dealing with. It is just that we can

> give in to it, which is really dangerous or we can

> fight like hell to overcome it. I have had my periods

> of depression. Luckily, I have a daughter that needed

> me. I also believe that suicide is the easy way out.

> This is just me. I have struggled with many different

> things over my life time. Too many to go through and

> most people don't want to hear it any way. So, I don't

> complain, I just keep going forward. I know how I want

> my life to be and I try to get to that point every

> day. So, I hope you all find what you need to get to

> your good spot.

>

> Take care,

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

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Jim, when I want a hug, just for some comfort, I tell my husband and it

does not bring him down. That's because I have already told him, more

than once, that he does not need to fix everything for me, that hugging

feels so good it is enough. At least for the moment, usually for the

hour, sometimes, two or three hugs, are enough to get thru the day.

Why not tell your wife how good she makes you feel when you hug each

other. Then she can feel she is nurturing you and feel good rather than

down. Of course, she needs to understand and accept that she cannot fix

everything.

As a fixer myself, I know that is hard, but doable. Especially when you

realize the love in the physical contact does fix things, as good as

possible, for a bit.

Then there is the difference between curing and healing. When you are

healed by love and a loved one, you can go on without a cure. For a while.

I don't know right now, but perhaps some day my pain will bring me to the

same point as your friend. But now it is still bearable and there are

still things in life that bring joy.

Helen

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Jim, when I want a hug, just for some comfort, I tell my husband and it

does not bring him down. That's because I have already told him, more

than once, that he does not need to fix everything for me, that hugging

feels so good it is enough. At least for the moment, usually for the

hour, sometimes, two or three hugs, are enough to get thru the day.

Why not tell your wife how good she makes you feel when you hug each

other. Then she can feel she is nurturing you and feel good rather than

down. Of course, she needs to understand and accept that she cannot fix

everything.

As a fixer myself, I know that is hard, but doable. Especially when you

realize the love in the physical contact does fix things, as good as

possible, for a bit.

Then there is the difference between curing and healing. When you are

healed by love and a loved one, you can go on without a cure. For a while.

I don't know right now, but perhaps some day my pain will bring me to the

same point as your friend. But now it is still bearable and there are

still things in life that bring joy.

Helen

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Jim, when I want a hug, just for some comfort, I tell my husband and it

does not bring him down. That's because I have already told him, more

than once, that he does not need to fix everything for me, that hugging

feels so good it is enough. At least for the moment, usually for the

hour, sometimes, two or three hugs, are enough to get thru the day.

Why not tell your wife how good she makes you feel when you hug each

other. Then she can feel she is nurturing you and feel good rather than

down. Of course, she needs to understand and accept that she cannot fix

everything.

As a fixer myself, I know that is hard, but doable. Especially when you

realize the love in the physical contact does fix things, as good as

possible, for a bit.

Then there is the difference between curing and healing. When you are

healed by love and a loved one, you can go on without a cure. For a while.

I don't know right now, but perhaps some day my pain will bring me to the

same point as your friend. But now it is still bearable and there are

still things in life that bring joy.

Helen

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In a message dated 8/6/05 8:11:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

koresun@... writes:

>Grrrrrr... It makes me really mad. I've been " guilted " within an inch of my

>life and I don't stand for it any more.

>>>>>>>>

Yeah. Me too. And mostly I've done it to myself. I was in the depths of a

deep depression all angry at myself for not just fixing it, blaming myself

and using guilt to try and make myslef snap out of it, pull myself up by my

bootstraps. Didn't work. LOL No surprise now, but it just made me feel worse

then, and sometimes still does when I think I'm doing depression or therapy

wrong and that it's my fault I " m such a loser. I recognize the depression

talking, but recognizing it doesn't always result in making the thoughts going

away.

I was so ashamed I didn't tell anyone for quite a while, and never have told

some people for fear of hearing that it's all in my head and I should just

snap out of it and get moving and get on with my life.

Is it self pity to recognize that we have health, mental or physical, issues

and may not be able to fix them on our own? Am I weak and lazy to have

diabetes? Why think that if I have mental health issues? Society is changing

on

this, but it's slow.

Some people have been lucky in getting the genes or whatever to be able to

be optimistic despite tremendously bad things happening. My grandmother was

one of those people - believed in her heart and soul that her god wouldn't

give her more than she could handle, and that everything had a purpose. She

was

sad and grief stricken when her brother died in WWII and then her daughter

died of a brain tumor, as well as other people, but her style or personality

(inherited or otherwise) let her work through it. She had great hardships,

losing her husband when he was 31 and then having two young daughters to raise

during the depression, but it didn't knock her into a deep well of

depression. She got knocked down and was able to get up again.

It's that kind of resilience that I seek, and it's my lack of resilience and

my pessimism and my hopelessness that hold me back. And when you're in a

deep depression or even just a constant low level depression, if not both, it's

very, very hard to find a way to overcome these things.

Is it self pity? Or is it self care to try to do something about this

issues? Is it cowardice to not be able to fix it on your own, or is it

courageous

to ask for help?

A group like this, that allows me to talk about this and how it relates to

diabetes and other conditions is very helpful, and very supportive for me. At

one point, I never would have talked about it, but it hashelped me to be more

open.

Wallowing, I think not. More like actually trying to do something to make

it better. I " m not into martyrism stoically suffering and not getting help.

I don't understand it, really, even as I do it sometimes.

Stacey

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In a message dated 8/6/05 8:11:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

koresun@... writes:

>Grrrrrr... It makes me really mad. I've been " guilted " within an inch of my

>life and I don't stand for it any more.

>>>>>>>>

Yeah. Me too. And mostly I've done it to myself. I was in the depths of a

deep depression all angry at myself for not just fixing it, blaming myself

and using guilt to try and make myslef snap out of it, pull myself up by my

bootstraps. Didn't work. LOL No surprise now, but it just made me feel worse

then, and sometimes still does when I think I'm doing depression or therapy

wrong and that it's my fault I " m such a loser. I recognize the depression

talking, but recognizing it doesn't always result in making the thoughts going

away.

I was so ashamed I didn't tell anyone for quite a while, and never have told

some people for fear of hearing that it's all in my head and I should just

snap out of it and get moving and get on with my life.

Is it self pity to recognize that we have health, mental or physical, issues

and may not be able to fix them on our own? Am I weak and lazy to have

diabetes? Why think that if I have mental health issues? Society is changing

on

this, but it's slow.

Some people have been lucky in getting the genes or whatever to be able to

be optimistic despite tremendously bad things happening. My grandmother was

one of those people - believed in her heart and soul that her god wouldn't

give her more than she could handle, and that everything had a purpose. She

was

sad and grief stricken when her brother died in WWII and then her daughter

died of a brain tumor, as well as other people, but her style or personality

(inherited or otherwise) let her work through it. She had great hardships,

losing her husband when he was 31 and then having two young daughters to raise

during the depression, but it didn't knock her into a deep well of

depression. She got knocked down and was able to get up again.

It's that kind of resilience that I seek, and it's my lack of resilience and

my pessimism and my hopelessness that hold me back. And when you're in a

deep depression or even just a constant low level depression, if not both, it's

very, very hard to find a way to overcome these things.

Is it self pity? Or is it self care to try to do something about this

issues? Is it cowardice to not be able to fix it on your own, or is it

courageous

to ask for help?

A group like this, that allows me to talk about this and how it relates to

diabetes and other conditions is very helpful, and very supportive for me. At

one point, I never would have talked about it, but it hashelped me to be more

open.

Wallowing, I think not. More like actually trying to do something to make

it better. I " m not into martyrism stoically suffering and not getting help.

I don't understand it, really, even as I do it sometimes.

Stacey

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>Depression and physical pain do complicate taking care of our diabetes so I

appreciated this topic<

People who haven't experienced depression often think that it's just a case of

the blues and will resolve itself if we just tough it out. The blues may

resolve, but depression won't. There also seems to be an unwillingness to talk

about anything beyond physical problems.

>Suicide may seem the easy way out in your mind.<

There really isn't anything easy about suicide. Not for the person who does it,

and certainly not for the people left behind. Someone once called it " a

permanent solution for a temporary problem. " To my mind that's a little glib,

especially when the problem is permanent as well.

>Another good reason for people to share so others in pain might find something

to hope for and see they are not alone.<

Well said, Laurel.

Dianne

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>Depression and physical pain do complicate taking care of our diabetes so I

appreciated this topic<

People who haven't experienced depression often think that it's just a case of

the blues and will resolve itself if we just tough it out. The blues may

resolve, but depression won't. There also seems to be an unwillingness to talk

about anything beyond physical problems.

>Suicide may seem the easy way out in your mind.<

There really isn't anything easy about suicide. Not for the person who does it,

and certainly not for the people left behind. Someone once called it " a

permanent solution for a temporary problem. " To my mind that's a little glib,

especially when the problem is permanent as well.

>Another good reason for people to share so others in pain might find something

to hope for and see they are not alone.<

Well said, Laurel.

Dianne

__________________________________________________

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>Depression and physical pain do complicate taking care of our diabetes so I

appreciated this topic<

People who haven't experienced depression often think that it's just a case of

the blues and will resolve itself if we just tough it out. The blues may

resolve, but depression won't. There also seems to be an unwillingness to talk

about anything beyond physical problems.

>Suicide may seem the easy way out in your mind.<

There really isn't anything easy about suicide. Not for the person who does it,

and certainly not for the people left behind. Someone once called it " a

permanent solution for a temporary problem. " To my mind that's a little glib,

especially when the problem is permanent as well.

>Another good reason for people to share so others in pain might find something

to hope for and see they are not alone.<

Well said, Laurel.

Dianne

__________________________________________________

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This is a very good idea. I'll do it starting today. I will just ask

for generic hugs without giving all the reasons all the time. Thanks

for the advice. My wife is a fixer, you hit that nail on the head as

well. Do you think I should wake her up now and ask for a hug, or wait

until she gets up on her own? I'll wait 8-)

> Jim, when I want a hug, just for some comfort, I tell my husband and

it

> does not bring him down. That's because I have already told him,

more

> than once, that he does not need to fix everything for me, that

hugging

> feels so good it is enough. At least for the moment, usually for

the

> hour, sometimes, two or three hugs, are enough to get thru the day.

>

> Why not tell your wife how good she makes you feel when you hug each

> other. Then she can feel she is nurturing you and feel good rather

than

> down. Of course, she needs to understand and accept that she cannot

fix

> everything.

>

> As a fixer myself, I know that is hard, but doable. Especially when

you

> realize the love in the physical contact does fix things, as good as

> possible, for a bit.

>

> Then there is the difference between curing and healing. When you

are

> healed by love and a loved one, you can go on without a cure. For a

while.

>

> I don't know right now, but perhaps some day my pain will bring me

to the

> same point as your friend. But now it is still bearable and there

are

> still things in life that bring joy.

>

> Helen

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This is a very good idea. I'll do it starting today. I will just ask

for generic hugs without giving all the reasons all the time. Thanks

for the advice. My wife is a fixer, you hit that nail on the head as

well. Do you think I should wake her up now and ask for a hug, or wait

until she gets up on her own? I'll wait 8-)

> Jim, when I want a hug, just for some comfort, I tell my husband and

it

> does not bring him down. That's because I have already told him,

more

> than once, that he does not need to fix everything for me, that

hugging

> feels so good it is enough. At least for the moment, usually for

the

> hour, sometimes, two or three hugs, are enough to get thru the day.

>

> Why not tell your wife how good she makes you feel when you hug each

> other. Then she can feel she is nurturing you and feel good rather

than

> down. Of course, she needs to understand and accept that she cannot

fix

> everything.

>

> As a fixer myself, I know that is hard, but doable. Especially when

you

> realize the love in the physical contact does fix things, as good as

> possible, for a bit.

>

> Then there is the difference between curing and healing. When you

are

> healed by love and a loved one, you can go on without a cure. For a

while.

>

> I don't know right now, but perhaps some day my pain will bring me

to the

> same point as your friend. But now it is still bearable and there

are

> still things in life that bring joy.

>

> Helen

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This is a very good idea. I'll do it starting today. I will just ask

for generic hugs without giving all the reasons all the time. Thanks

for the advice. My wife is a fixer, you hit that nail on the head as

well. Do you think I should wake her up now and ask for a hug, or wait

until she gets up on her own? I'll wait 8-)

> Jim, when I want a hug, just for some comfort, I tell my husband and

it

> does not bring him down. That's because I have already told him,

more

> than once, that he does not need to fix everything for me, that

hugging

> feels so good it is enough. At least for the moment, usually for

the

> hour, sometimes, two or three hugs, are enough to get thru the day.

>

> Why not tell your wife how good she makes you feel when you hug each

> other. Then she can feel she is nurturing you and feel good rather

than

> down. Of course, she needs to understand and accept that she cannot

fix

> everything.

>

> As a fixer myself, I know that is hard, but doable. Especially when

you

> realize the love in the physical contact does fix things, as good as

> possible, for a bit.

>

> Then there is the difference between curing and healing. When you

are

> healed by love and a loved one, you can go on without a cure. For a

while.

>

> I don't know right now, but perhaps some day my pain will bring me

to the

> same point as your friend. But now it is still bearable and there

are

> still things in life that bring joy.

>

> Helen

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