Re: ? on weigh gain and seizures still; Help!!! Calories/wt/ratios.

[Guest guest]

,

I am no expert on this. Unfortunately, it is mostly just trial and error

with a spinkle of guesswork. I was very strict about weighing at the

same time of day and same amount of clothing on the same scale each

week. I like the old-fashioned scales with the sliding weights. Our

family doctor let us use the scale during a slow time at her office.

Calorie requirements can change with activity level and metabolism. It

is difficult to calculate. Change in climate and weather can have an effect.

With the initiation of the diet, there is a big change in metabolism and

with body makeup. Many patients lose weight from water loss like in the

Atkins diet and this weight may not be regained as it is permanent from

the change in body composition. You may want to disregard the initial

weight change and concentrate on the past 3 or 4 weeks to see what the

trend is.

You may have too many or too few calories. You may want to change the

timing of meals with some snacks to better match calorie needs. We often

would change calories, ratio, etc. and see what happened over 2 weeks.

It is a very slow process. You have to keep lots of records. Even 25

calories too many seems to allow breakthrough seizures, so dropping

calories would seem to be the first choice.

Some people like to limit the amount of water given at any one time to

prevent ketones from being diluted too much.

Exchange lists or okay. However, it isn't as exact as using the computer

programs. I found that even the computer programs can be off depending

on how they assign the calories. With my daughter I found that the lower

ratios weren't the same as the higher ratios. At 4:1 ratio you are on a

high ratio. I would experiment with calories first.

Good luck. It is more art than science.

Bill

Falk wrote:

> Dear Bill

>

> You sound like someone who understands weight and calorie

> relationships, and I need help!!!

>

> My daughter, age 5, went on the keto diet May 17th (fasting started)

> and did remarkably well until five days ago. She had only two

> seizures and a giddy spell in the previous 6 weeks or so.

>

> Anyway, this week she began seizuring again, and last night she

> seizured twice then kept herself awake the rest of the night... she

> doesn't seizure, usually, when she is awake. Nothing has changed in

> her diet. She is on no meds and hasn't been for a couple of years or

> more.

>

> When we started the diet, the nurse took her and weighed her, with

> her clunky shoes & clothing and that is the weight that was used to

> calculate calories. Five weeks later she weighed two lbs. less at

> the neuro's, but I figure it was lack of shoes and perhaps a

> different scale measuring, as she sure does not appear to have lost

> any weight!

>

> Anyway, last night, since we were up I used the ketostix to measure

> ketones throughout the night, and ketones were always high. All

> through the night.

>

> The dietitian makes our menus and we use an exchange list, so I am

> without resources to even know how to tweek the diet. is on a

> 4:1 ratio, weighs 35 lbs. and is on 1200 calories. She is a small

> framed girl, 5th U.S. percentile on ht., she is adopted from Viet Nam

> so my expectation is that she will never be tall. Her weight is 15

> percentile on the chart I have.

>

> Anyway, I saw a positive cognitive/language movement in the beginning

> on the diet (she is delayed and functioning at about a 3 year level),

> and I knew she felt good - probably her brain was not being bombarded

> with subclinical stuff. But now we are back to what happened

> pre-diet. She would have one bad week in four, sometimes the other

> three weeks without even one seizure.

>

> Dietitian is thinking a higher ratio.

[Guest guest]

,

I am no expert on this. Unfortunately, it is mostly just trial and error

with a spinkle of guesswork. I was very strict about weighing at the

same time of day and same amount of clothing on the same scale each

week. I like the old-fashioned scales with the sliding weights. Our

family doctor let us use the scale during a slow time at her office.

Calorie requirements can change with activity level and metabolism. It

is difficult to calculate. Change in climate and weather can have an effect.

With the initiation of the diet, there is a big change in metabolism and

with body makeup. Many patients lose weight from water loss like in the

Atkins diet and this weight may not be regained as it is permanent from

the change in body composition. You may want to disregard the initial

weight change and concentrate on the past 3 or 4 weeks to see what the

trend is.

You may have too many or too few calories. You may want to change the

timing of meals with some snacks to better match calorie needs. We often

would change calories, ratio, etc. and see what happened over 2 weeks.

It is a very slow process. You have to keep lots of records. Even 25

calories too many seems to allow breakthrough seizures, so dropping

calories would seem to be the first choice.

Some people like to limit the amount of water given at any one time to

prevent ketones from being diluted too much.

Exchange lists or okay. However, it isn't as exact as using the computer

programs. I found that even the computer programs can be off depending

on how they assign the calories. With my daughter I found that the lower

ratios weren't the same as the higher ratios. At 4:1 ratio you are on a

high ratio. I would experiment with calories first.

Good luck. It is more art than science.

Bill

Falk wrote:

> Dear Bill

>

> You sound like someone who understands weight and calorie

> relationships, and I need help!!!

>

> My daughter, age 5, went on the keto diet May 17th (fasting started)

> and did remarkably well until five days ago. She had only two

> seizures and a giddy spell in the previous 6 weeks or so.

>

> Anyway, this week she began seizuring again, and last night she

> seizured twice then kept herself awake the rest of the night... she

> doesn't seizure, usually, when she is awake. Nothing has changed in

> her diet. She is on no meds and hasn't been for a couple of years or

> more.

>

> When we started the diet, the nurse took her and weighed her, with

> her clunky shoes & clothing and that is the weight that was used to

> calculate calories. Five weeks later she weighed two lbs. less at

> the neuro's, but I figure it was lack of shoes and perhaps a

> different scale measuring, as she sure does not appear to have lost

> any weight!

>

> Anyway, last night, since we were up I used the ketostix to measure

> ketones throughout the night, and ketones were always high. All

> through the night.

>

> The dietitian makes our menus and we use an exchange list, so I am

> without resources to even know how to tweek the diet. is on a

> 4:1 ratio, weighs 35 lbs. and is on 1200 calories. She is a small

> framed girl, 5th U.S. percentile on ht., she is adopted from Viet Nam

> so my expectation is that she will never be tall. Her weight is 15

> percentile on the chart I have.

>

> Anyway, I saw a positive cognitive/language movement in the beginning

> on the diet (she is delayed and functioning at about a 3 year level),

> and I knew she felt good - probably her brain was not being bombarded

> with subclinical stuff. But now we are back to what happened

> pre-diet. She would have one bad week in four, sometimes the other

> three weeks without even one seizure.

>

> Dietitian is thinking a higher ratio.

[Guest guest]

,

I am no expert on this. Unfortunately, it is mostly just trial and error

with a spinkle of guesswork. I was very strict about weighing at the

same time of day and same amount of clothing on the same scale each

week. I like the old-fashioned scales with the sliding weights. Our

family doctor let us use the scale during a slow time at her office.

Calorie requirements can change with activity level and metabolism. It

is difficult to calculate. Change in climate and weather can have an effect.

With the initiation of the diet, there is a big change in metabolism and

with body makeup. Many patients lose weight from water loss like in the

Atkins diet and this weight may not be regained as it is permanent from

the change in body composition. You may want to disregard the initial

weight change and concentrate on the past 3 or 4 weeks to see what the

trend is.

You may have too many or too few calories. You may want to change the

timing of meals with some snacks to better match calorie needs. We often

would change calories, ratio, etc. and see what happened over 2 weeks.

It is a very slow process. You have to keep lots of records. Even 25

calories too many seems to allow breakthrough seizures, so dropping

calories would seem to be the first choice.

Some people like to limit the amount of water given at any one time to

prevent ketones from being diluted too much.

Exchange lists or okay. However, it isn't as exact as using the computer

programs. I found that even the computer programs can be off depending

on how they assign the calories. With my daughter I found that the lower

ratios weren't the same as the higher ratios. At 4:1 ratio you are on a

high ratio. I would experiment with calories first.

Good luck. It is more art than science.

Bill

Falk wrote:

> Dear Bill

>

> You sound like someone who understands weight and calorie

> relationships, and I need help!!!

>

> My daughter, age 5, went on the keto diet May 17th (fasting started)

> and did remarkably well until five days ago. She had only two

> seizures and a giddy spell in the previous 6 weeks or so.

>

> Anyway, this week she began seizuring again, and last night she

> seizured twice then kept herself awake the rest of the night... she

> doesn't seizure, usually, when she is awake. Nothing has changed in

> her diet. She is on no meds and hasn't been for a couple of years or

> more.

>

> When we started the diet, the nurse took her and weighed her, with

> her clunky shoes & clothing and that is the weight that was used to

> calculate calories. Five weeks later she weighed two lbs. less at

> the neuro's, but I figure it was lack of shoes and perhaps a

> different scale measuring, as she sure does not appear to have lost

> any weight!

>

> Anyway, last night, since we were up I used the ketostix to measure

> ketones throughout the night, and ketones were always high. All

> through the night.

>

> The dietitian makes our menus and we use an exchange list, so I am

> without resources to even know how to tweek the diet. is on a

> 4:1 ratio, weighs 35 lbs. and is on 1200 calories. She is a small

> framed girl, 5th U.S. percentile on ht., she is adopted from Viet Nam

> so my expectation is that she will never be tall. Her weight is 15

> percentile on the chart I have.

>

> Anyway, I saw a positive cognitive/language movement in the beginning

> on the diet (she is delayed and functioning at about a 3 year level),

> and I knew she felt good - probably her brain was not being bombarded

> with subclinical stuff. But now we are back to what happened

> pre-diet. She would have one bad week in four, sometimes the other

> three weeks without even one seizure.

>

> Dietitian is thinking a higher ratio.

[Guest guest]

> > Dear Bill

> >

> > You sound like someone who understands weight and calorie

> > relationships, and I need help!!!

> >

> > My daughter, age 5, went on the keto diet May 17th (fasting

started)

> > and did remarkably well until five days ago. She had only two

> > seizures and a giddy spell in the previous 6 weeks or so.

> >

> > Anyway, this week she began seizuring again, and last night she

> > seizured twice then kept herself awake the rest of the night...

she

> > doesn't seizure, usually, when she is awake. Nothing has

changed in

> > her diet. She is on no meds and hasn't been for a couple of

years or

> > more.

> >

> > When we started the diet, the nurse took her and weighed her,

with

> > her clunky shoes & clothing and that is the weight that was

used to

> > calculate calories. Five weeks later she weighed two lbs. less

at

> > the neuro's, but I figure it was lack of shoes and perhaps a

> > different scale measuring, as she sure does not appear to have

lost

> > any weight!

> >

> > Anyway, last night, since we were up I used the ketostix to

measure

> > ketones throughout the night, and ketones were always high. All

> > through the night.

> >

> > The dietitian makes our menus and we use an exchange list, so I

am

> > without resources to even know how to tweek the diet. is

on a

> > 4:1 ratio, weighs 35 lbs. and is on 1200 calories. She is a

small

> > framed girl, 5th U.S. percentile on ht., she is adopted from

Viet Nam

> > so my expectation is that she will never be tall. Her weight

is 15

> > percentile on the chart I have.

> >

> > Anyway, I saw a positive cognitive/language movement in the

beginning

> > on the diet (she is delayed and functioning at about a 3 year

level),

> > and I knew she felt good - probably her brain was not being

bombarded

> > with subclinical stuff. But now we are back to what happened

> > pre-diet. She would have one bad week in four, sometimes the

other

> > three weeks without even one seizure.

> >

> > Dietitian is thinking a higher ratio.