Re: accomodation in restaurants/ was Celiac vs IBS article in Self

[Guest guest]

> While I think it's fine that Applebee's and places of

> the like have special menus I don't think that it's right that

> places don't have ITEMS that are gluten and/or casein free and make

> it so difficult for us to dine there. If you want to be on a diet -

> that's your choice. I don't choose to eat like I have to, so why

> aren't there special menus for us and more places?

> Enough of my ranting...just a little upset about the whole segment

> yesterday.

>

>

> Rhiannon

Why should the average restaurant accommodate gluten-free diners?

If you think about it, restaurants are in business to make money. They

are not a public utility, and there is no " right " to dine out. When

they devote staff time to preparing a special meal, doing extra

cleaning to avoid cross contamination, spending a while talking to a

special needs diner to figure out exactly what is needed, reading

labels, etc. - they lose money. If your server gives you 20 extra

minutes of time to deal with your special needs, they are giving their

other customers 20 fewer minutes - and will probably get smaller tips

from them. When the kitchen takes 10 minutes just to fix a single GF

meal, they may have to make every other customer in the place wait

longer for their dinner - does that help their reputation and repeat

business? After all, you are part of only one party in the restaurant,

and there may be 50 other groups who are unhappy because of your needs.

So when I find a place that is willing to give up a little profit to

accomadate us, I am DELIGHTED and I spread the word to try to send

more business their way to repay them. We also tip very well to repay

servers who have taken a lot of trouble to help us. As for Applebee's,

etc. who do not wish to serve GF meals - my recourse is to not spend

my money there (never did anyway - the food is beyond nasty) and to

discourage others from eating there.

Maureen

[Guest guest]

> While I think it's fine that Applebee's and places of

> the like have special menus I don't think that it's right that

> places don't have ITEMS that are gluten and/or casein free and make

> it so difficult for us to dine there. If you want to be on a diet -

> that's your choice. I don't choose to eat like I have to, so why

> aren't there special menus for us and more places?

> Enough of my ranting...just a little upset about the whole segment

> yesterday.

>

>

> Rhiannon

Why should the average restaurant accommodate gluten-free diners?

If you think about it, restaurants are in business to make money. They

are not a public utility, and there is no " right " to dine out. When

they devote staff time to preparing a special meal, doing extra

cleaning to avoid cross contamination, spending a while talking to a

special needs diner to figure out exactly what is needed, reading

labels, etc. - they lose money. If your server gives you 20 extra

minutes of time to deal with your special needs, they are giving their

other customers 20 fewer minutes - and will probably get smaller tips

from them. When the kitchen takes 10 minutes just to fix a single GF

meal, they may have to make every other customer in the place wait

longer for their dinner - does that help their reputation and repeat

business? After all, you are part of only one party in the restaurant,

and there may be 50 other groups who are unhappy because of your needs.

So when I find a place that is willing to give up a little profit to

accomadate us, I am DELIGHTED and I spread the word to try to send

more business their way to repay them. We also tip very well to repay

servers who have taken a lot of trouble to help us. As for Applebee's,

etc. who do not wish to serve GF meals - my recourse is to not spend

my money there (never did anyway - the food is beyond nasty) and to

discourage others from eating there.

Maureen

[Guest guest]

> While I think it's fine that Applebee's and places of

> the like have special menus I don't think that it's right that

> places don't have ITEMS that are gluten and/or casein free and make

> it so difficult for us to dine there. If you want to be on a diet -

> that's your choice. I don't choose to eat like I have to, so why

> aren't there special menus for us and more places?

> Enough of my ranting...just a little upset about the whole segment

> yesterday.

>

>

> Rhiannon

Why should the average restaurant accommodate gluten-free diners?

If you think about it, restaurants are in business to make money. They

are not a public utility, and there is no " right " to dine out. When

they devote staff time to preparing a special meal, doing extra

cleaning to avoid cross contamination, spending a while talking to a

special needs diner to figure out exactly what is needed, reading

labels, etc. - they lose money. If your server gives you 20 extra

minutes of time to deal with your special needs, they are giving their

other customers 20 fewer minutes - and will probably get smaller tips

from them. When the kitchen takes 10 minutes just to fix a single GF

meal, they may have to make every other customer in the place wait

longer for their dinner - does that help their reputation and repeat

business? After all, you are part of only one party in the restaurant,

and there may be 50 other groups who are unhappy because of your needs.

So when I find a place that is willing to give up a little profit to

accomadate us, I am DELIGHTED and I spread the word to try to send

more business their way to repay them. We also tip very well to repay

servers who have taken a lot of trouble to help us. As for Applebee's,

etc. who do not wish to serve GF meals - my recourse is to not spend

my money there (never did anyway - the food is beyond nasty) and to

discourage others from eating there.

Maureen

[Guest guest]

>

> So when I find a place that is willing to give up a little profit to

> accomadate us, I am DELIGHTED and I spread the word to try to send

> more business their way to repay them. We also tip very well to repay

> servers who have taken a lot of trouble to help us. As for Applebee's,

> etc. who do not wish to serve GF meals - my recourse is to not spend

> my money there (never did anyway - the food is beyond nasty) and to

> discourage others from eating there.

Exactly.

When I visit my in-laws in NJ, I will happily drive an hour (ah,

Philly traffic) to go to Jules Thin Crust in Doylestown. And the

family likes to come with. What's not to like about freshly made

gourmet pizzas? The GF options are also soy-free. The crust is

vegetarian (not vegan) and they use no latex gloves. They serve up

pizza with a smile and are thrilled to hear that the business is

making the news in the celiac community.

Why the heck would I want to go to some bland chain when I can get

service like that?

I suppose I'm lucky. With all my dietary limitations, I cannot eat

at any chain. Those of you who just have CD are lucky--you can try

to figure out accomodations with those places. I bet it makes

travelling easier. We camp and pack all our food. I don't mind

grilling or cooking over coals, so it all works out.

ygg

[Guest guest]

>

> So when I find a place that is willing to give up a little profit to

> accomadate us, I am DELIGHTED and I spread the word to try to send

> more business their way to repay them. We also tip very well to repay

> servers who have taken a lot of trouble to help us. As for Applebee's,

> etc. who do not wish to serve GF meals - my recourse is to not spend

> my money there (never did anyway - the food is beyond nasty) and to

> discourage others from eating there.

Exactly.

When I visit my in-laws in NJ, I will happily drive an hour (ah,

Philly traffic) to go to Jules Thin Crust in Doylestown. And the

family likes to come with. What's not to like about freshly made

gourmet pizzas? The GF options are also soy-free. The crust is

vegetarian (not vegan) and they use no latex gloves. They serve up

pizza with a smile and are thrilled to hear that the business is

making the news in the celiac community.

Why the heck would I want to go to some bland chain when I can get

service like that?

I suppose I'm lucky. With all my dietary limitations, I cannot eat

at any chain. Those of you who just have CD are lucky--you can try

to figure out accomodations with those places. I bet it makes

travelling easier. We camp and pack all our food. I don't mind

grilling or cooking over coals, so it all works out.

ygg

[Guest guest]

>

> So when I find a place that is willing to give up a little profit to

> accomadate us, I am DELIGHTED and I spread the word to try to send

> more business their way to repay them. We also tip very well to repay

> servers who have taken a lot of trouble to help us. As for Applebee's,

> etc. who do not wish to serve GF meals - my recourse is to not spend

> my money there (never did anyway - the food is beyond nasty) and to

> discourage others from eating there.

Exactly.

When I visit my in-laws in NJ, I will happily drive an hour (ah,

Philly traffic) to go to Jules Thin Crust in Doylestown. And the

family likes to come with. What's not to like about freshly made

gourmet pizzas? The GF options are also soy-free. The crust is

vegetarian (not vegan) and they use no latex gloves. They serve up

pizza with a smile and are thrilled to hear that the business is

making the news in the celiac community.

Why the heck would I want to go to some bland chain when I can get

service like that?

I suppose I'm lucky. With all my dietary limitations, I cannot eat

at any chain. Those of you who just have CD are lucky--you can try

to figure out accomodations with those places. I bet it makes

travelling easier. We camp and pack all our food. I don't mind

grilling or cooking over coals, so it all works out.

ygg

[Guest guest]

Good point about restaurants trying to make money. However, if the

restaurants take the time to train their employees and have a GF

menu, they would not lose money. By ordering off a GF menu, this

makes the staff aware of the needs of their customers, and if they

are trained there should be very little extra time spent on that one

party. Plus with groups like Silly Yaks, when we find a restaurant

with a GF menu we let each other know. Which in turn increases that

restaurant's business!

I would definitely be more apt to eat at a restaurant that has a GF

menu. By having a GF menu, this tells me the staff is informed

about my diet already and will be able to accomodate me more

easily! And it's nice not to feel like the PITA customer when

ordering!

I think we are going to see more and more restaurants with GF

menus! :-) GF menus bring more GF diners (and the number of GF

diners is growing rapidly)!!!

> > While I think it's fine that Applebee's and places of

> > the like have special menus I don't think that it's right that

> > places don't have ITEMS that are gluten and/or casein free and

make

> > it so difficult for us to dine there. If you want to be on a

diet -

> > that's your choice. I don't choose to eat like I have to, so

why

> > aren't there special menus for us and more places?

> > Enough of my ranting...just a little upset about the whole

segment

> > yesterday.

> >

> >

> > Rhiannon

>

> Why should the average restaurant accommodate gluten-free diners?

>

> If you think about it, restaurants are in business to make money.

They

> are not a public utility, and there is no " right " to dine out.

When

> they devote staff time to preparing a special meal, doing extra

> cleaning to avoid cross contamination, spending a while talking to

a

> special needs diner to figure out exactly what is needed, reading

> labels, etc. - they lose money. If your server gives you 20 extra

> minutes of time to deal with your special needs, they are giving

their

> other customers 20 fewer minutes - and will probably get smaller

tips

> from them. When the kitchen takes 10 minutes just to fix a single

GF

> meal, they may have to make every other customer in the place wait

> longer for their dinner - does that help their reputation and

repeat

> business? After all, you are part of only one party in the

restaurant,

> and there may be 50 other groups who are unhappy because of your

needs.

>

> So when I find a place that is willing to give up a little profit

to

> accomadate us, I am DELIGHTED and I spread the word to try to send

> more business their way to repay them. We also tip very well to

repay

> servers who have taken a lot of trouble to help us. As for

Applebee's,

> etc. who do not wish to serve GF meals - my recourse is to not

spend

> my money there (never did anyway - the food is beyond nasty) and

to

> discourage others from eating there.

>

> Maureen

>

[Guest guest]

Good point about restaurants trying to make money. However, if the

restaurants take the time to train their employees and have a GF

menu, they would not lose money. By ordering off a GF menu, this

makes the staff aware of the needs of their customers, and if they

are trained there should be very little extra time spent on that one

party. Plus with groups like Silly Yaks, when we find a restaurant

with a GF menu we let each other know. Which in turn increases that

restaurant's business!

I would definitely be more apt to eat at a restaurant that has a GF

menu. By having a GF menu, this tells me the staff is informed

about my diet already and will be able to accomodate me more

easily! And it's nice not to feel like the PITA customer when

ordering!

I think we are going to see more and more restaurants with GF

menus! :-) GF menus bring more GF diners (and the number of GF

diners is growing rapidly)!!!

> > While I think it's fine that Applebee's and places of

> > the like have special menus I don't think that it's right that

> > places don't have ITEMS that are gluten and/or casein free and

make

> > it so difficult for us to dine there. If you want to be on a

diet -

> > that's your choice. I don't choose to eat like I have to, so

why

> > aren't there special menus for us and more places?

> > Enough of my ranting...just a little upset about the whole

segment

> > yesterday.

> >

> >

> > Rhiannon

>

> Why should the average restaurant accommodate gluten-free diners?

>

> If you think about it, restaurants are in business to make money.

They

> are not a public utility, and there is no " right " to dine out.

When

> they devote staff time to preparing a special meal, doing extra

> cleaning to avoid cross contamination, spending a while talking to

a

> special needs diner to figure out exactly what is needed, reading

> labels, etc. - they lose money. If your server gives you 20 extra

> minutes of time to deal with your special needs, they are giving

their

> other customers 20 fewer minutes - and will probably get smaller

tips

> from them. When the kitchen takes 10 minutes just to fix a single

GF

> meal, they may have to make every other customer in the place wait

> longer for their dinner - does that help their reputation and

repeat

> business? After all, you are part of only one party in the

restaurant,

> and there may be 50 other groups who are unhappy because of your

needs.

>

> So when I find a place that is willing to give up a little profit

to

> accomadate us, I am DELIGHTED and I spread the word to try to send

> more business their way to repay them. We also tip very well to

repay

> servers who have taken a lot of trouble to help us. As for

Applebee's,

> etc. who do not wish to serve GF meals - my recourse is to not

spend

> my money there (never did anyway - the food is beyond nasty) and

to

> discourage others from eating there.

>

> Maureen

>

[Guest guest]

Good point about restaurants trying to make money. However, if the

restaurants take the time to train their employees and have a GF

menu, they would not lose money. By ordering off a GF menu, this

makes the staff aware of the needs of their customers, and if they

are trained there should be very little extra time spent on that one

party. Plus with groups like Silly Yaks, when we find a restaurant

with a GF menu we let each other know. Which in turn increases that

restaurant's business!

I would definitely be more apt to eat at a restaurant that has a GF

menu. By having a GF menu, this tells me the staff is informed

about my diet already and will be able to accomodate me more

easily! And it's nice not to feel like the PITA customer when

ordering!

I think we are going to see more and more restaurants with GF

menus! :-) GF menus bring more GF diners (and the number of GF

diners is growing rapidly)!!!

> > While I think it's fine that Applebee's and places of

> > the like have special menus I don't think that it's right that

> > places don't have ITEMS that are gluten and/or casein free and

make

> > it so difficult for us to dine there. If you want to be on a

diet -

> > that's your choice. I don't choose to eat like I have to, so

why

> > aren't there special menus for us and more places?

> > Enough of my ranting...just a little upset about the whole

segment

> > yesterday.

> >

> >

> > Rhiannon

>

> Why should the average restaurant accommodate gluten-free diners?

>

> If you think about it, restaurants are in business to make money.

They

> are not a public utility, and there is no " right " to dine out.

When

> they devote staff time to preparing a special meal, doing extra

> cleaning to avoid cross contamination, spending a while talking to

a

> special needs diner to figure out exactly what is needed, reading

> labels, etc. - they lose money. If your server gives you 20 extra

> minutes of time to deal with your special needs, they are giving

their

> other customers 20 fewer minutes - and will probably get smaller

tips

> from them. When the kitchen takes 10 minutes just to fix a single

GF

> meal, they may have to make every other customer in the place wait

> longer for their dinner - does that help their reputation and

repeat

> business? After all, you are part of only one party in the

restaurant,

> and there may be 50 other groups who are unhappy because of your

needs.

>

> So when I find a place that is willing to give up a little profit

to

> accomadate us, I am DELIGHTED and I spread the word to try to send

> more business their way to repay them. We also tip very well to

repay

> servers who have taken a lot of trouble to help us. As for

Applebee's,

> etc. who do not wish to serve GF meals - my recourse is to not

spend

> my money there (never did anyway - the food is beyond nasty) and

to

> discourage others from eating there.

>

> Maureen

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Good point about restaurants trying to make money. However, if

the

> restaurants take the time to train their employees and have a GF

> menu, they would not lose money. By ordering off a GF menu, this

> makes the staff aware of the needs of their customers, and if they

> are trained there should be very little extra time spent on that

one

> party. Plus with groups like Silly Yaks, when we find a

restaurant

> with a GF menu we let each other know. Which in turn increases

that

> restaurant's business!

I have to disagree with some of your conclusions. There would be a

significant cost associated with analyzing everything they serve,

checking with suppliers, studying their kitchen practises, creating

(or buying) a training program - which would have be run frequently,

as many restaurants have a hugh staff turnover rate. There's also

the extra time staff must dedicate to discussing each special meal,

any special cleaning that might be needed before making it, etc. It

would take a HUGE increase in their GF audience for the average

restaurant to recoup those costs. SillyYaks has under 2,000 members -

how big an impact can we make on restaurant profits nationwide?

> I would definitely be more apt to eat at a restaurant that has a

GF

> menu. By having a GF menu, this tells me the staff is informed

> about my diet already and will be able to accomodate me more

> easily! And it's nice not to feel like the PITA customer when

> ordering!

Outback Steakhouse has a well-researched GF menu. We have eaten in 8

different Outbacks in our travels. In the less half of them did our

server actually know what " gluten-free " meant. Yes, the company took

the time *and money* to develop the menu, but I don't see them

spending their money to keep up with staff education.

Maureen

[Guest guest]

>

> Good point about restaurants trying to make money. However, if

the

> restaurants take the time to train their employees and have a GF

> menu, they would not lose money. By ordering off a GF menu, this

> makes the staff aware of the needs of their customers, and if they

> are trained there should be very little extra time spent on that

one

> party. Plus with groups like Silly Yaks, when we find a

restaurant

> with a GF menu we let each other know. Which in turn increases

that

> restaurant's business!

I have to disagree with some of your conclusions. There would be a

significant cost associated with analyzing everything they serve,

checking with suppliers, studying their kitchen practises, creating

(or buying) a training program - which would have be run frequently,

as many restaurants have a hugh staff turnover rate. There's also

the extra time staff must dedicate to discussing each special meal,

any special cleaning that might be needed before making it, etc. It

would take a HUGE increase in their GF audience for the average

restaurant to recoup those costs. SillyYaks has under 2,000 members -

how big an impact can we make on restaurant profits nationwide?

> I would definitely be more apt to eat at a restaurant that has a

GF

> menu. By having a GF menu, this tells me the staff is informed

> about my diet already and will be able to accomodate me more

> easily! And it's nice not to feel like the PITA customer when

> ordering!

Outback Steakhouse has a well-researched GF menu. We have eaten in 8

different Outbacks in our travels. In the less half of them did our

server actually know what " gluten-free " meant. Yes, the company took

the time *and money* to develop the menu, but I don't see them

spending their money to keep up with staff education.

Maureen

[Guest guest]

>

> Good point about restaurants trying to make money. However, if

the

> restaurants take the time to train their employees and have a GF

> menu, they would not lose money. By ordering off a GF menu, this

> makes the staff aware of the needs of their customers, and if they

> are trained there should be very little extra time spent on that

one

> party. Plus with groups like Silly Yaks, when we find a

restaurant

> with a GF menu we let each other know. Which in turn increases

that

> restaurant's business!

I have to disagree with some of your conclusions. There would be a

significant cost associated with analyzing everything they serve,

checking with suppliers, studying their kitchen practises, creating

(or buying) a training program - which would have be run frequently,

as many restaurants have a hugh staff turnover rate. There's also

the extra time staff must dedicate to discussing each special meal,

any special cleaning that might be needed before making it, etc. It

would take a HUGE increase in their GF audience for the average

restaurant to recoup those costs. SillyYaks has under 2,000 members -

how big an impact can we make on restaurant profits nationwide?

> I would definitely be more apt to eat at a restaurant that has a

GF

> menu. By having a GF menu, this tells me the staff is informed

> about my diet already and will be able to accomodate me more

> easily! And it's nice not to feel like the PITA customer when

> ordering!

Outback Steakhouse has a well-researched GF menu. We have eaten in 8

different Outbacks in our travels. In the less half of them did our

server actually know what " gluten-free " meant. Yes, the company took

the time *and money* to develop the menu, but I don't see them

spending their money to keep up with staff education.

Maureen

[Guest guest]

In ea8j6r+m80f (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>, on 07/26/06

at 08:27 PM, " " doremusv@...> typed:

> GF menus bring more GF diners (and the number of GF

>diners is growing rapidly)!!!

GF friendly menus (most celiacs don't insist that everything served be GF,

just that there are adequate GF choices and no contamination issues) not

only bring more GF diners, but also their non-GF friends and families.

--

n : jt@... http://jt-mj.net

In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!

Warpstock X - October 12-15 2006; Windsor, Ont. I'll be there - will you?

-- --

" Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons,

for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup. "

[stolen from somewhere else]

[Guest guest]

In ea8j6r+m80f (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>, on 07/26/06

at 08:27 PM, " " doremusv@...> typed:

> GF menus bring more GF diners (and the number of GF

>diners is growing rapidly)!!!

GF friendly menus (most celiacs don't insist that everything served be GF,

just that there are adequate GF choices and no contamination issues) not

only bring more GF diners, but also their non-GF friends and families.

--

n : jt@... http://jt-mj.net

In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!

Warpstock X - October 12-15 2006; Windsor, Ont. I'll be there - will you?

-- --

" Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons,

for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup. "

[stolen from somewhere else]

[Guest guest]

In ea8j6r+m80f (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>, on 07/26/06

at 08:27 PM, " " doremusv@...> typed:

> GF menus bring more GF diners (and the number of GF

>diners is growing rapidly)!!!

GF friendly menus (most celiacs don't insist that everything served be GF,

just that there are adequate GF choices and no contamination issues) not

only bring more GF diners, but also their non-GF friends and families.

--

n : jt@... http://jt-mj.net

In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!

Warpstock X - October 12-15 2006; Windsor, Ont. I'll be there - will you?

-- --

" Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons,

for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup. "

[stolen from somewhere else]

[Guest guest]

> Why should the average restaurant accommodate gluten-free diners?

Why shouldn't they? They are accomodating to many other diets.

> If you think about it, restaurants are in business to make money.

They

> are not a public utility, and there is no " right " to dine out.

When

> they devote staff time to preparing a special meal, doing extra

> cleaning to avoid cross contamination, spending a while talking to

a

> special needs diner to figure out exactly what is needed, reading

> labels, etc. - they lose money. If your server gives you 20 extra

> minutes of time to deal with your special needs, they are giving

their

> other customers 20 fewer minutes - and will probably get smaller

tips

> from them. When the kitchen takes 10 minutes just to fix a single

GF

> meal, they may have to make every other customer in the place wait

> longer for their dinner - does that help their reputation and

repeat

> business?

While I agree with you about being there to make money I am not sure

why you think they wouldn't. Do you have any idea how much things

are marked up and what they make per item? And for that matter, why

would I EVER need an extra 20 minutes of time? I have a friend that

takes at least twice as much time ordering because she wants to know

what's in everything as far as what comes on the salad, is the

potato rolled in salt, is it real butter - and she doesn't even have

any dietary restrictions. That's just how she is. I spend my own

time finding out if there are items at restaurant that are okay for

me to eat. And yes, you are correct that it is a privelege to dine

out, not a right. BUT, that is what I choose to do sometimes. I

think it's only fair that we all are offered the same rights as the

next customer that walks through the door. It should would bring me

and my family and friends into a place that I knew was helpful and

accomodating. And you can bet that I have told many about the times

that I have been asked to leave a restaurant because they don't know

what to do.

After all, you are part of only one party in the restaurant,

> and there may be 50 other groups who are unhappy because of your

needs.

Why would I be making others unhappy? They would never even know

the difference.

> So when I find a place that is willing to give up a little profit

to

> accomadate us, I am DELIGHTED and I spread the word to try to send

> more business their way to repay them. We also tip very well to

repay

> servers who have taken a lot of trouble to help us. As for

Applebee's,

> etc. who do not wish to serve GF meals - my recourse is to not

spend

> my money there (never did anyway - the food is beyond nasty) and

to

> discourage others from eating there.

And as far as Applebee's goes, I could care less. It's the

principle behind it. The only reason it was mentioned was because

they brought that chain up in their segment.

>

> Maureen

>

[Guest guest]

> Why should the average restaurant accommodate gluten-free diners?

Why shouldn't they? They are accomodating to many other diets.

> If you think about it, restaurants are in business to make money.

They

> are not a public utility, and there is no " right " to dine out.

When

> they devote staff time to preparing a special meal, doing extra

> cleaning to avoid cross contamination, spending a while talking to

a

> special needs diner to figure out exactly what is needed, reading

> labels, etc. - they lose money. If your server gives you 20 extra

> minutes of time to deal with your special needs, they are giving

their

> other customers 20 fewer minutes - and will probably get smaller

tips

> from them. When the kitchen takes 10 minutes just to fix a single

GF

> meal, they may have to make every other customer in the place wait

> longer for their dinner - does that help their reputation and

repeat

> business?

While I agree with you about being there to make money I am not sure

why you think they wouldn't. Do you have any idea how much things

are marked up and what they make per item? And for that matter, why

would I EVER need an extra 20 minutes of time? I have a friend that

takes at least twice as much time ordering because she wants to know

what's in everything as far as what comes on the salad, is the

potato rolled in salt, is it real butter - and she doesn't even have

any dietary restrictions. That's just how she is. I spend my own

time finding out if there are items at restaurant that are okay for

me to eat. And yes, you are correct that it is a privelege to dine

out, not a right. BUT, that is what I choose to do sometimes. I

think it's only fair that we all are offered the same rights as the

next customer that walks through the door. It should would bring me

and my family and friends into a place that I knew was helpful and

accomodating. And you can bet that I have told many about the times

that I have been asked to leave a restaurant because they don't know

what to do.

After all, you are part of only one party in the restaurant,

> and there may be 50 other groups who are unhappy because of your

needs.

Why would I be making others unhappy? They would never even know

the difference.

> So when I find a place that is willing to give up a little profit

to

> accomadate us, I am DELIGHTED and I spread the word to try to send

> more business their way to repay them. We also tip very well to

repay

> servers who have taken a lot of trouble to help us. As for

Applebee's,

> etc. who do not wish to serve GF meals - my recourse is to not

spend

> my money there (never did anyway - the food is beyond nasty) and

to

> discourage others from eating there.

And as far as Applebee's goes, I could care less. It's the

principle behind it. The only reason it was mentioned was because

they brought that chain up in their segment.

>

> Maureen

>

[Guest guest]

> Why should the average restaurant accommodate gluten-free diners?

Why shouldn't they? They are accomodating to many other diets.

> If you think about it, restaurants are in business to make money.

They

> are not a public utility, and there is no " right " to dine out.

When

> they devote staff time to preparing a special meal, doing extra

> cleaning to avoid cross contamination, spending a while talking to

a

> special needs diner to figure out exactly what is needed, reading

> labels, etc. - they lose money. If your server gives you 20 extra

> minutes of time to deal with your special needs, they are giving

their

> other customers 20 fewer minutes - and will probably get smaller

tips

> from them. When the kitchen takes 10 minutes just to fix a single

GF

> meal, they may have to make every other customer in the place wait

> longer for their dinner - does that help their reputation and

repeat

> business?

While I agree with you about being there to make money I am not sure

why you think they wouldn't. Do you have any idea how much things

are marked up and what they make per item? And for that matter, why

would I EVER need an extra 20 minutes of time? I have a friend that

takes at least twice as much time ordering because she wants to know

what's in everything as far as what comes on the salad, is the

potato rolled in salt, is it real butter - and she doesn't even have

any dietary restrictions. That's just how she is. I spend my own

time finding out if there are items at restaurant that are okay for

me to eat. And yes, you are correct that it is a privelege to dine

out, not a right. BUT, that is what I choose to do sometimes. I

think it's only fair that we all are offered the same rights as the

next customer that walks through the door. It should would bring me

and my family and friends into a place that I knew was helpful and

accomodating. And you can bet that I have told many about the times

that I have been asked to leave a restaurant because they don't know

what to do.

After all, you are part of only one party in the restaurant,

> and there may be 50 other groups who are unhappy because of your

needs.

Why would I be making others unhappy? They would never even know

the difference.

> So when I find a place that is willing to give up a little profit

to

> accomadate us, I am DELIGHTED and I spread the word to try to send

> more business their way to repay them. We also tip very well to

repay

> servers who have taken a lot of trouble to help us. As for

Applebee's,

> etc. who do not wish to serve GF meals - my recourse is to not

spend

> my money there (never did anyway - the food is beyond nasty) and

to

> discourage others from eating there.

And as far as Applebee's goes, I could care less. It's the

principle behind it. The only reason it was mentioned was because

they brought that chain up in their segment.

>

> Maureen

>

[Guest guest]

But I agree with the original post. We are a very small percentage of the population and if it is difficult for a place to adequately accommodate us, why should they? If I owned a eating establishment I wouldn't (well, since I am celiac, I'd open a gf one, so i mean if I wasn't) turn the whole back of my store upside down to make certain one person wouldn't get sick. And oh, think of the potential lawsuit if you did try to accommodate them and you failed? I think it is very, very easy for us to get emotional over this....I certainly have. But we are the ones with the problem, not them. There is no 504 plan for places of business. They can't discriminate based on race or religion et al, but there is no clause regarding food choices that I'm aware of. They can get us in the building if we are physically handicapped, and then to the bathroom, but I've never seen anything that says they have to

yell "halt" to the kitchen staff and rework their operations. If it isn't too difficult an accommodation, I am such most managers would be more than happy to change some menu items around and use clean utensils....but don't walk into a fried chicken joint and ask them to wipe everything down and bake yours. I've walked out of a few restaurants in my 6 short gf months because they didn't know what I was talking about and I don't want to risk it. If it's a place I would like to go, I make a note to work from home to contact the store manager and even corporate offices to try to come up with a gf menu. Then we can even add it to our local restaurant guide.n wrote: In <ea8j6r+m80f (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>, on 07/26/06 at 08:27 PM, "" <doremusv (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> typed:> GF menus bring more GF diners (and the number of GF >diners is growing rapidly)!!!GF friendly menus (most celiacs don't insist that everything served be GF,just that there are adequate GF choices and no contamination issues) notonly bring more GF diners, but also their non-GF friends and families.-- n : jt@... http://jt-mj.netIn the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!Warpstock X

- October 12-15 2006; Windsor, Ont. I'll be there - will you?-- --"Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons,for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."[stolen from somewhere else]

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

But I agree with the original post. We are a very small percentage of the population and if it is difficult for a place to adequately accommodate us, why should they? If I owned a eating establishment I wouldn't (well, since I am celiac, I'd open a gf one, so i mean if I wasn't) turn the whole back of my store upside down to make certain one person wouldn't get sick. And oh, think of the potential lawsuit if you did try to accommodate them and you failed? I think it is very, very easy for us to get emotional over this....I certainly have. But we are the ones with the problem, not them. There is no 504 plan for places of business. They can't discriminate based on race or religion et al, but there is no clause regarding food choices that I'm aware of. They can get us in the building if we are physically handicapped, and then to the bathroom, but I've never seen anything that says they have to

yell "halt" to the kitchen staff and rework their operations. If it isn't too difficult an accommodation, I am such most managers would be more than happy to change some menu items around and use clean utensils....but don't walk into a fried chicken joint and ask them to wipe everything down and bake yours. I've walked out of a few restaurants in my 6 short gf months because they didn't know what I was talking about and I don't want to risk it. If it's a place I would like to go, I make a note to work from home to contact the store manager and even corporate offices to try to come up with a gf menu. Then we can even add it to our local restaurant guide.n wrote: In <ea8j6r+m80f (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>, on 07/26/06 at 08:27 PM, "" <doremusv (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> typed:> GF menus bring more GF diners (and the number of GF >diners is growing rapidly)!!!GF friendly menus (most celiacs don't insist that everything served be GF,just that there are adequate GF choices and no contamination issues) notonly bring more GF diners, but also their non-GF friends and families.-- n : jt@... http://jt-mj.netIn the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!Warpstock X

- October 12-15 2006; Windsor, Ont. I'll be there - will you?-- --"Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons,for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."[stolen from somewhere else]

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

But I agree with the original post. We are a very small percentage of the population and if it is difficult for a place to adequately accommodate us, why should they? If I owned a eating establishment I wouldn't (well, since I am celiac, I'd open a gf one, so i mean if I wasn't) turn the whole back of my store upside down to make certain one person wouldn't get sick. And oh, think of the potential lawsuit if you did try to accommodate them and you failed? I think it is very, very easy for us to get emotional over this....I certainly have. But we are the ones with the problem, not them. There is no 504 plan for places of business. They can't discriminate based on race or religion et al, but there is no clause regarding food choices that I'm aware of. They can get us in the building if we are physically handicapped, and then to the bathroom, but I've never seen anything that says they have to

yell "halt" to the kitchen staff and rework their operations. If it isn't too difficult an accommodation, I am such most managers would be more than happy to change some menu items around and use clean utensils....but don't walk into a fried chicken joint and ask them to wipe everything down and bake yours. I've walked out of a few restaurants in my 6 short gf months because they didn't know what I was talking about and I don't want to risk it. If it's a place I would like to go, I make a note to work from home to contact the store manager and even corporate offices to try to come up with a gf menu. Then we can even add it to our local restaurant guide.n wrote: In <ea8j6r+m80f (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>, on 07/26/06 at 08:27 PM, "" <doremusv (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> typed:> GF menus bring more GF diners (and the number of GF >diners is growing rapidly)!!!GF friendly menus (most celiacs don't insist that everything served be GF,just that there are adequate GF choices and no contamination issues) notonly bring more GF diners, but also their non-GF friends and families.-- n : jt@... http://jt-mj.netIn the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!Warpstock X

- October 12-15 2006; Windsor, Ont. I'll be there - will you?-- --"Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons,for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."[stolen from somewhere else]

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

But I agree with the original post. We are a very small percentage of the population and if it is difficult for a place to adequately accommodate us, why should they? If I owned a eating establishment I wouldn't (well, since I am celiac, I'd open a gf one, so i mean if I wasn't) turn the whole back of my store upside down to make certain one person wouldn't get sick. And oh, think of the potential lawsuit if you did try to accommodate them and you failed? I think it is very, very easy for us to get emotional over this....I certainly have. But we are the ones with the problem, not them. There is no 504 plan for places of business. They can't discriminate based on race or religion et al, but there is no clause regarding food choices that I'm aware of. They can get us in the building if we are physically handicapped, and then to the bathroom, but I've never seen anything that says they have to

yell "halt" to the kitchen staff and rework their operations. If it isn't too difficult an accommodation, I am such most managers would be more than happy to change some menu items around and use clean utensils....but don't walk into a fried chicken joint and ask them to wipe everything down and bake yours. I've walked out of a few restaurants in my 6 short gf months because they didn't know what I was talking about and I don't want to risk it. If it's a place I would like to go, I make a note to work from home to contact the store manager and even corporate offices to try to come up with a gf menu. Then we can even add it to our local restaurant guide.n wrote: In <ea8j6r+m80f (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>, on 07/26/06 at 08:27 PM, "" <doremusv (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> typed:> GF menus bring more GF diners (and the number of GF >diners is growing rapidly)!!!GF friendly menus (most celiacs don't insist that everything served be GF,just that there are adequate GF choices and no contamination issues) notonly bring more GF diners, but also their non-GF friends and families.-- n : jt@... http://jt-mj.netIn the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!Warpstock X

- October 12-15 2006; Windsor, Ont. I'll be there - will you?-- --"Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons,for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."[stolen from somewhere else] __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

But I agree with the original post. We are a very small percentage of the population and if it is difficult for a place to adequately accommodate us, why should they? If I owned a eating establishment I wouldn't (well, since I am celiac, I'd open a gf one, so i mean if I wasn't) turn the whole back of my store upside down to make certain one person wouldn't get sick. And oh, think of the potential lawsuit if you did try to accommodate them and you failed? I think it is very, very easy for us to get emotional over this....I certainly have. But we are the ones with the problem, not them. There is no 504 plan for places of business. They can't discriminate based on race or religion et al, but there is no clause regarding food choices that I'm aware of. They can get us in the building if we are physically handicapped, and then to the bathroom, but I've never seen anything that says they have to

yell "halt" to the kitchen staff and rework their operations. If it isn't too difficult an accommodation, I am such most managers would be more than happy to change some menu items around and use clean utensils....but don't walk into a fried chicken joint and ask them to wipe everything down and bake yours. I've walked out of a few restaurants in my 6 short gf months because they didn't know what I was talking about and I don't want to risk it. If it's a place I would like to go, I make a note to work from home to contact the store manager and even corporate offices to try to come up with a gf menu. Then we can even add it to our local restaurant guide.n wrote: In <ea8j6r+m80f (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>, on 07/26/06 at 08:27 PM, "" <doremusv (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> typed:> GF menus bring more GF diners (and the number of GF >diners is growing rapidly)!!!GF friendly menus (most celiacs don't insist that everything served be GF,just that there are adequate GF choices and no contamination issues) notonly bring more GF diners, but also their non-GF friends and families.-- n : jt@... http://jt-mj.netIn the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!Warpstock X

- October 12-15 2006; Windsor, Ont. I'll be there - will you?-- --"Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons,for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."[stolen from somewhere else] __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

But I agree with the original post. We are a very small percentage of the population and if it is difficult for a place to adequately accommodate us, why should they? If I owned a eating establishment I wouldn't (well, since I am celiac, I'd open a gf one, so i mean if I wasn't) turn the whole back of my store upside down to make certain one person wouldn't get sick. And oh, think of the potential lawsuit if you did try to accommodate them and you failed? I think it is very, very easy for us to get emotional over this....I certainly have. But we are the ones with the problem, not them. There is no 504 plan for places of business. They can't discriminate based on race or religion et al, but there is no clause regarding food choices that I'm aware of. They can get us in the building if we are physically handicapped, and then to the bathroom, but I've never seen anything that says they have to

yell "halt" to the kitchen staff and rework their operations. If it isn't too difficult an accommodation, I am such most managers would be more than happy to change some menu items around and use clean utensils....but don't walk into a fried chicken joint and ask them to wipe everything down and bake yours. I've walked out of a few restaurants in my 6 short gf months because they didn't know what I was talking about and I don't want to risk it. If it's a place I would like to go, I make a note to work from home to contact the store manager and even corporate offices to try to come up with a gf menu. Then we can even add it to our local restaurant guide.n wrote: In <ea8j6r+m80f (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>, on 07/26/06 at 08:27 PM, "" <doremusv (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> typed:> GF menus bring more GF diners (and the number of GF >diners is growing rapidly)!!!GF friendly menus (most celiacs don't insist that everything served be GF,just that there are adequate GF choices and no contamination issues) notonly bring more GF diners, but also their non-GF friends and families.-- n : jt@... http://jt-mj.netIn the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!Warpstock X

- October 12-15 2006; Windsor, Ont. I'll be there - will you?-- --"Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons,for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."[stolen from somewhere else] __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> When

> > they devote staff time to preparing a special meal, doing extra

> > cleaning to avoid cross contamination, spending a while talking

to

> a

> > special needs diner to figure out exactly what is needed, reading

> > labels, etc. - they lose money. If your server gives you 20 extra

> > minutes of time to deal with your special needs, they are giving

> their

> > other customers 20 fewer minutes - and will probably get smaller

> tips

> > from them. When the kitchen takes 10 minutes just to fix a single

> GF

> > meal, they may have to make every other customer in the place

wait

> > longer for their dinner - does that help their reputation and

> repeat

> > business?

>

> While I agree with you about being there to make money I am not

sure

> why you think they wouldn't. Do you have any idea how much things

> are marked up and what they make per item?

I read the trade reports. I know that the average local restaurant,

not the mega-chains, has a very slim profit margin and many of them

fail due to not making enough money. More than once I've had to send

back a plate of food -which is waste that comes straight off the

bottom line - because of a goof-up, like gluten gravy where it

shouldn't be.

> And for that matter, why

> would I EVER need an extra 20 minutes of time?

To make sure you don't get sick?

20 minutes is the MINIMUM amount of time I spend making sure we can

get a GF meal in a restaurant. I talk to the manager about special

dietary needs before we sit down, I explain to the server what we

need, sometimes I ask the manager to oversee the meal prep, I ask the

server/manager to check ingredients/recipes, I check the plates when

they arrive and verbally verify that we received the right order.

> I spend my own

> time finding out if there are items at restaurant that are okay for

> me to eat.

How do you do that without involving the restaurant staff? On every

menu I see things that LOOK like they might be GF, but I won't eat

them or feed them to my son without making sure.

> And yes, you are correct that it is a privelege to dine

> out, not a right. BUT, that is what I choose to do sometimes. I

> think it's only fair that we all are offered the same rights as the

> next customer that walks through the door.

You are offered EXACTLY the same rights as every other customer!

" Here is our menu, pick something and order it. "

Asking for a special medical diet is asking for a whole lot more than

the other customers are offered.

> After all, you are part of only one party in the restaurant,

> > and there may be 50 other groups who are unhappy because of your

> needs.

>

> Why would I be making others unhappy? They would never even know

> the difference.

Yes, they would. Explaining what is needed takes time - both from the

server and the kitchen staff. Making a special meal than requires

mixing up fresh batches of potatoes/rice/sauce/veggies/whatever takes

time. Checking labels takes time. Cleaning the work surface to

prevent cross-contamination takes time. (at DisneyWorld - which

claims to be GF friendly - I was told it takes about 20 minutes extra

of their kitchen's time to deal with just one medical meal) All these

unusual chores also disrupt work flow in the kitchen (a friend who is

a professional chef told me his staff HATES special orders because

when their workflow is disrupted, they are much more likely to make

mistakes with other plates) The end result is a special medical meal

takes time away from preparing the meals of other diners - and they

have to wait longer. Yes, many of them may notice.

Maureen