Re: ???law vs interpretation

[Guest guest]

As you already know, 's the best one to answer this. Honestly, I'd call

a lawyer and get a consult on this one. From what I know it sounds like a gray

area where they can play with their interpretation. I don't think a child

legally has to attend Kindergarten -- I believe they're required to be in

school from 1st grade onwards (whether public, private or home).

But since the state does provide FREE education at the Kindergarten level,

it's my guess that FAPE comes into play and they do have to provide services.

I'd go looking for a legal precedent to cite to the CSE committee, but this

sounds really technical.

Seriously, this seems to be to be one for a real lawyer who knows the laws

in Connecticut, someone who may have to deal directly with your district on

your behalf in order to resolve this.

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/18/2006 12:57:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

chester2001@... writes:

She later said we could go to due process, but that it would take so long it

may not be worth it.

This could very well be worth it if you are going to be paying for those

services yourself. You might not get anywhere in time for them to pay now, but

part of this would be to be paid/reimbursed for the services they should have

been providing all along and you will need to hire. -- Jill

[Guest guest]

Trish, I don't know the answer to this because it varies from state to state.

In GA, they will usually provide speech, OT, not sure about PT, but there are

some newer rules about kids unilaterally placed in " private " school. You'd need

to find out whether they would consider " homeschooling " to be private school.

Some places do, some don't. And maybe the Soundbridge preschool would be

considered a public school??? I think this is definitely a question for !

[Guest guest]

I've heard differing opinions on this. Like much of the sped law, this has

never

been clear to me. I would talk to a lawyer or sped advocate.

[Guest guest]

I'm not a lawyer....and I'm not very well versed in the law, but I think what

they told you is there interpretation.

attends preschool at a private preschool which is part of our town's

Lutheran school. He, and several other children from the school recieve speech

services from our school district. The only " catch " is that this year they

changed where the services had to be delievered. Last year he got services at

his school. This year, I have to take him to the elementary school to get

speech.

I've also been told by several people that if I wanted to send to our

church's school, that she would receive services as it is mandated. But I

realize that the quanity of the services she recieves would probably be be much

less than what she gets currently in our district school.

Debbie, mom to , 7, moderate SNHL and , 4, hearing

Trish Whitehouse chester2001@...> wrote:

Quick question, but very important.

We had Bobby's PPT (Amends IEP) meeting today and we wanted to pull him out of

kindergarten and to basically homeschool him for this year while he catches up

onlistening skills because of his late diagnosis. We never used the word

homeschooling and said we were going to send him to a private preschool. Their

argument was that if we took him out of public school that they are no longer

required by law, to provide services (OT, PT, even AV). Ellen Gill (AV therapist

who was with us) said that was an interpretation of the law, that not every

school district refuses to provide OT and PT if the kid is taken out of school.

She later said we could go to due process, but that it would take so long it may

not be worth it.

, any thoughts? ? I'm not looking for legal advice, I just want to

know if Ellen is right, did the district's lawyer find a way to interpret the

law in their favor, because she knew of our intentions ahead of time and I'm

sure she contacted the region's lawyer.

Trish

Visit Trish and Bobby's Marathon website at

http://www.firstgiving.com/bobbymarathon

[Guest guest]

Actually, I just remembered something that Elias's speech therapist

told me yesterday.

She had just gone to a seminar on IDEA2004, and had been told that if kids

are receiving

services at a private school, the district that the private school is in

will now be responsible

for costs, rather than the current situation where the home district is

responsible. This

implies that districts are having to provide services for kids in private

schools. I don't know

if that extends to kindergarten though.

[Guest guest]

Homeschooling is not addressed in federal special education law.

Homeschooling laws vary from state to state.

In some states, homeschoolers qualify as a private school, so the IDEA

applies to them as for students placed in private school by their parents.

They can and do receive services, but are not entitled and due process does

not apply.

If homeschooling does not qualify as a private school by your state's

definition of homeschooling, then the schools may offer services, but are

not obligated to do so. Some schools provide some speech therapy services,

probably as a cost saving measure to remediate delays early should the

student ever re-enroll. It's highly variable.

If you don't have an private umbrella option, you might try enrolling in a

virtual charter school or distance learning program. It would allow you to

homeschool, but he would technically be a public school student.

[Guest guest]

Just my experience - I have no idea about what is the law!! My kids are in

Catholic school. My daughter receives speech through the public school system.

The only difference is that they do not provide services at her school - I have

to bring her to the public school in our district. I have run into issues with

other things as well. Our public system will provide hearing aids for the child

(not FM system but another sort of hearing aid) but my daughter doesn't qualify.

When my daughter was tested through the public school system they tested her for

everything that would be her needs but she only qualified for speech therapy -

so I am assuming that they would have still provided her with other therapies if

she needed it.

So -- from what I can tell - in my state - your child is still granted the

services but not within their classroom. Also my child's school is under no

obligation to do anything for her - they can legally refuse to put her in

special seating arrangements even - so I don't know if that has played a role -

since her school is under no legal obligation for anything maybe that is why the

public school system has picked it up? I really have no idea - the issue of what

she was entitled to never came up?

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Just my experience - I have no idea about what is the law!! My kids are in

Catholic school. My daughter receives speech through the public school system.

The only difference is that they do not provide services at her school - I have

to bring her to the public school in our district. I have run into issues with

other things as well. Our public system will provide hearing aids for the child

(not FM system but another sort of hearing aid) but my daughter doesn't qualify.

When my daughter was tested through the public school system they tested her for

everything that would be her needs but she only qualified for speech therapy -

so I am assuming that they would have still provided her with other therapies if

she needed it.

So -- from what I can tell - in my state - your child is still granted the

services but not within their classroom. Also my child's school is under no

obligation to do anything for her - they can legally refuse to put her in

special seating arrangements even - so I don't know if that has played a role -

since her school is under no legal obligation for anything maybe that is why the

public school system has picked it up? I really have no idea - the issue of what

she was entitled to never came up?

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Just my experience - I have no idea about what is the law!! My kids are in

Catholic school. My daughter receives speech through the public school system.

The only difference is that they do not provide services at her school - I have

to bring her to the public school in our district. I have run into issues with

other things as well. Our public system will provide hearing aids for the child

(not FM system but another sort of hearing aid) but my daughter doesn't qualify.

When my daughter was tested through the public school system they tested her for

everything that would be her needs but she only qualified for speech therapy -

so I am assuming that they would have still provided her with other therapies if

she needed it.

So -- from what I can tell - in my state - your child is still granted the

services but not within their classroom. Also my child's school is under no

obligation to do anything for her - they can legally refuse to put her in

special seating arrangements even - so I don't know if that has played a role -

since her school is under no legal obligation for anything maybe that is why the

public school system has picked it up? I really have no idea - the issue of what

she was entitled to never came up?

---------------------------------

All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

This was our experience, too. Our son attended a private school before starting

public Kindergarten--the school district provided speech therapy for him, but

only at one of the elementary schools in our area. They did provide

transporation between the preschool and elementary school for speech therapy,

though.

He also got home-based speech therapy from the school when he broke his femur

and was home-bound for more than a month.

He has attended public schools since he started Kindergarten, though, so we

haven't had other private school experience.

Kiminy

Sara Chaddock saraandchadd@...> wrote:

Just my experience - I have no idea about what is the law!! My kids are in

Catholic school. My daughter receives speech through the public school system.

The only difference is that they do not provide services at her school - I have

to bring her to the public school in our district.

---------------------------------

Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small

Business.

[Guest guest]

Well, Elias is in private preschool now and gets all his services there or

at

home (except PT this year, which is at a center at my request).

But... we don't have public preschool (obviously). Once Elias hits

kindergarten,

I am sure he will get his services there.

>

> This was our experience, too. Our son attended a private school before

> starting public Kindergarten--the school district provided speech therapy

> for him, but only at one of the elementary schools in our area. They did

> provide transporation between the preschool and elementary school for speech

> therapy, though.

>

> He also got home-based speech therapy from the school when he broke his

> femur and was home-bound for more than a month.

>

> He has attended public schools since he started Kindergarten, though, so

> we haven't had other private school experience.

>

> Kiminy

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, Elias is in private preschool now and gets all his services there or

at

home (except PT this year, which is at a center at my request).

But... we don't have public preschool (obviously). Once Elias hits

kindergarten,

I am sure he will get his services there.

>

> This was our experience, too. Our son attended a private school before

> starting public Kindergarten--the school district provided speech therapy

> for him, but only at one of the elementary schools in our area. They did

> provide transporation between the preschool and elementary school for speech

> therapy, though.

>

> He also got home-based speech therapy from the school when he broke his

> femur and was home-bound for more than a month.

>

> He has attended public schools since he started Kindergarten, though, so

> we haven't had other private school experience.

>

> Kiminy

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, Elias is in private preschool now and gets all his services there or

at

home (except PT this year, which is at a center at my request).

But... we don't have public preschool (obviously). Once Elias hits

kindergarten,

I am sure he will get his services there.

>

> This was our experience, too. Our son attended a private school before

> starting public Kindergarten--the school district provided speech therapy

> for him, but only at one of the elementary schools in our area. They did

> provide transporation between the preschool and elementary school for speech

> therapy, though.

>

> He also got home-based speech therapy from the school when he broke his

> femur and was home-bound for more than a month.

>

> He has attended public schools since he started Kindergarten, though, so

> we haven't had other private school experience.

>

> Kiminy

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey,

I don't know if this helps, but in Fl, in my county (Seminole), my boys

are registered as " homeschoolers " in the county's " homeschool " program.

They are entitled to services just as if they were attending a public

school. We haven't pursued it, however, because of scheduling conflicts.

Mom to , 9, hearing, and Caleb, 7, mild to profound, bilateral, SNHL

[Guest guest]

Hey,

I don't know if this helps, but in Fl, in my county (Seminole), my boys

are registered as " homeschoolers " in the county's " homeschool " program.

They are entitled to services just as if they were attending a public

school. We haven't pursued it, however, because of scheduling conflicts.

Mom to , 9, hearing, and Caleb, 7, mild to profound, bilateral, SNHL

[Guest guest]

Hey,

I don't know if this helps, but in Fl, in my county (Seminole), my boys

are registered as " homeschoolers " in the county's " homeschool " program.

They are entitled to services just as if they were attending a public

school. We haven't pursued it, however, because of scheduling conflicts.

Mom to , 9, hearing, and Caleb, 7, mild to profound, bilateral, SNHL

[Guest guest]

This is exactly what I was told as well. I believe as long as the district is

providing kindergarten, then they also have to cover services to those children.

Debbie

Bonnie MacKellar bkmackellar@...> wrote:

Actually, I just remembered something that Elias's speech therapist

told me yesterday.

She had just gone to a seminar on IDEA2004, and had been told that if kids

are receiving

services at a private school, the district that the private school is in

will now be responsible

for costs, rather than the current situation where the home district is

responsible. This

implies that districts are having to provide services for kids in private

schools. I don't know

if that extends to kindergarten though.

Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were

and ask why not. G.B Shaw

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

This is exactly what I was told as well. I believe as long as the district is

providing kindergarten, then they also have to cover services to those children.

Debbie

Bonnie MacKellar bkmackellar@...> wrote:

Actually, I just remembered something that Elias's speech therapist

told me yesterday.

She had just gone to a seminar on IDEA2004, and had been told that if kids

are receiving

services at a private school, the district that the private school is in

will now be responsible

for costs, rather than the current situation where the home district is

responsible. This

implies that districts are having to provide services for kids in private

schools. I don't know

if that extends to kindergarten though.

Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were

and ask why not. G.B Shaw

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

Office of Special Education Planning letter of guidance re: Obligations of

Public Agencies in Serving Children with Disabilities Placed by Their

Parents at Private Schools

http://www.nichcy.org/private.htm

-Kay

Kay

kay@...

The Listen-Up Web

http://www.listen-up.org

[Guest guest]

Office of Special Education Planning letter of guidance re: Obligations of

Public Agencies in Serving Children with Disabilities Placed by Their

Parents at Private Schools

http://www.nichcy.org/private.htm

-Kay

Kay

kay@...

The Listen-Up Web

http://www.listen-up.org

[Guest guest]

Office of Special Education Planning letter of guidance re: Obligations of

Public Agencies in Serving Children with Disabilities Placed by Their

Parents at Private Schools

http://www.nichcy.org/private.htm

-Kay

Kay

kay@...

The Listen-Up Web

http://www.listen-up.org

[Guest guest]

Let's start with the first question. Ellen is a wonderful person, an

unbelievable AVT but not a lawyer. The answer to the question you

asked is no, your schools do not have to provide OT, PT or any service

if you decide on your own to educate him in any place other than the

public school. Ellen is right that many school districts in

Connecticut do provide services for kids in private schools, but that

is, in large part a matter of choice, not interpretation. The law

states that for children placed by their parents in private schools

the district where the school is located ( Note, not necessarily the

district where you live.) is required to identify him or her as a

child who qualifies for special education, and they are required to

provide a share of the Federal funds they receive for special

education equal to the proportion of children in the district who are

eligible for special education and who are placed by their parents in

private school for those students. They are not required by law t

provide any services to any particular child. They are required to

design a service plan of supports that should be provided for that

child but not to pay for him or her. You can read the law in the new

regulations at 34 C.F.R. §§300.129-144. Other states handle this

differently, New York for example has state law that requires school

districts to provide services for kids in private schools (I think, I

am not licensed to practice in New York). Schools are explicitly

permtted to provide services in private schools and here in beautiful

Connecticut there are a number of towns that do so. It is therefore a

matter of choise rather than interpretation.

But of course, this is not the question you should be asking. What

you want to know is whether your child must be provided with services

if you pull him out of the local kindergarten for the current year.

That is a very different question, and the answer to that question is

" It depends " . The reason that the answer is it depends is because it

is not clear that the local kindergarten is the appropriate placement

for Bobby. If it is not they the district is required to provide

services and an appropriate placement somewhere else. If you choose

the placement, i.e. homeschooling, you may be able to negotiate

services.

Now one last thing. I know that the folks on this list are going

through a lot, and I know you all need help. My family and I are

going through the same things. I want to do what I can to help.

However, I hope you understand that when I offer suggestions on the

list I am doing my job for free. I will continue to try to help as

time permits, but my ability to provide pro bono legal service is not

infinite. I don't want this to sound harsh or critical, I hope y'all

will understand.

[Guest guest]

Let's start with the first question. Ellen is a wonderful person, an

unbelievable AVT but not a lawyer. The answer to the question you

asked is no, your schools do not have to provide OT, PT or any service

if you decide on your own to educate him in any place other than the

public school. Ellen is right that many school districts in

Connecticut do provide services for kids in private schools, but that

is, in large part a matter of choice, not interpretation. The law

states that for children placed by their parents in private schools

the district where the school is located ( Note, not necessarily the

district where you live.) is required to identify him or her as a

child who qualifies for special education, and they are required to

provide a share of the Federal funds they receive for special

education equal to the proportion of children in the district who are

eligible for special education and who are placed by their parents in

private school for those students. They are not required by law t

provide any services to any particular child. They are required to

design a service plan of supports that should be provided for that

child but not to pay for him or her. You can read the law in the new

regulations at 34 C.F.R. §§300.129-144. Other states handle this

differently, New York for example has state law that requires school

districts to provide services for kids in private schools (I think, I

am not licensed to practice in New York). Schools are explicitly

permtted to provide services in private schools and here in beautiful

Connecticut there are a number of towns that do so. It is therefore a

matter of choise rather than interpretation.

But of course, this is not the question you should be asking. What

you want to know is whether your child must be provided with services

if you pull him out of the local kindergarten for the current year.

That is a very different question, and the answer to that question is

" It depends " . The reason that the answer is it depends is because it

is not clear that the local kindergarten is the appropriate placement

for Bobby. If it is not they the district is required to provide

services and an appropriate placement somewhere else. If you choose

the placement, i.e. homeschooling, you may be able to negotiate

services.

Now one last thing. I know that the folks on this list are going

through a lot, and I know you all need help. My family and I are

going through the same things. I want to do what I can to help.

However, I hope you understand that when I offer suggestions on the

list I am doing my job for free. I will continue to try to help as

time permits, but my ability to provide pro bono legal service is not

infinite. I don't want this to sound harsh or critical, I hope y'all

will understand.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, , that's exactly the way I understood it when I looked at that web

site. Nice to know I can at least understand this legal mumbo jumbo.

And I do understand that you are going through exactly what we're all struggling

with. That's why, once I understood what was legal and what was not, we were

going to see you. But I had to understand my options first. Again, I

appreciate it and do not want to take advantage.

Don't know what is next; I have some thinking to do.

Trish