Re: How well do deaf children really read?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/21/2006 8:08:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

daniellereader@... writes:

Everytime I hear that statistic I wonder if it's based

on residential students coming out of deaf schools and

how much support is coming from these children at

home. I'm sure there are hearing high school students

who might not be able to read much higher then that

either when graduating fom high school, over here in

California anyhow.

My favorite thing to throw back at the person quoting that stat is to inform

them that the NY Times is written at a 9th grade reading level. Yet most

Americans, if asked, will tell you it's a high-brow paper and hard to read.

It's a meaningless statistic that has no relationship to our son. Plus it

annoys me, so I get sarcastic. LOL

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

Everytime I hear that statistic I wonder if it's based

on residential students coming out of deaf schools and

how much support is coming from these children at

home. I'm sure there are hearing high school students

who might not be able to read much higher then that

either when graduating fom high school, over here in

California anyhow. I know that even for a hearing

child to learn how to read it takes a lot of support

and encouragement at home. It also starts early. Has

anyone heard of what kind of backgrounds the children

in these studies are coming from? What kind of support

base do they have coming from home?

le

[Guest guest]

That's such a good question, Sheri - I've often wondered that too and

don't know if there's a more recent study about it. I will say because

of that much-quoted statistic, our school really put a lot of emphasis

on reading and both my boys are excellent readers. I think some of that

is because of the " boost " they received and I think a lot of it is just

who they are - they both love reading. We feel really lucky that they

have that tool in their toolchest!

I would guess - like you - that that statistic is now different for the

better but am not sure where a new study might be.

Barbara

sbyrne1281 wrote:

> I was reading the Cued Speech press release that someone posted and

> saw the infamous sentence

>

> " the average 18-year-old deaf high school graduate reads on a third-

> or fourth-grade level. "

>

> My understanding is that this came from a study in 1991 ( Bowe,

> Approaching Equality " ), long before newborn hearing screening, early

> intervention, bilateral implantation, or any of the other recent

> awesome advances that our helping our kids today.

>

> So, my question is, are there any more meaningful studies that have

> come out since then updating this statstic?

>

> It's not that I doubt there are discrepencies but I really wonder

> about folks who are shouting " fire, fire " based on this info if it

> really is that out of date.

>

> Just wondering, not intending to start a war . . .

>

> Sheri

>

>

>

>

>

>

> All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is

the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright

restrictions.

>

[Guest guest]

I wish my supervisor were her to answer this question. She is a CODA

(child of deaf parents) and is an amazing woman. But, I'll share

with you what I know and have experienced. From the time hearing

children are born, they are exposed to their language. Whether from

parents, friends, caretakers, hospital staff, grocery stores,

television...they are inundated with their language. Unfortunately,

from the time deaf/hoh children are born, they are usually not

exposed to their language until much later in life. Not only that,

but when they enter the school systems, they are " dumbed " down

because they are not at the same reading level as their peers. So

the teachers end up just adjusting their grades. I know...I've seen

it for myself. The teachers believe that the children are being

stubborn, and just don't want to participate... " You should know

that...I shouldn't have to explain it to you " or they just expect the

interpreters (who are NOT teachers) to explain it to the students,

rather than stop the class to help the student understand. When

those students go home, who helps them understand their school work?

The parents normally do not have the ability to communicate with

their child, so how can they help them with homework? Now, I am not

speaking for all teachers and/or all parents...it has just been my

experience for 99.9% of the students I interpret for. That's why it

is so exciting to be a part of this group and hear how WE are making

a difference for our children!!! Congratulations to us ALL!!!!

Leah (Texas)

>

>

> In a message dated 7/21/2006 8:08:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> daniellereader@... writes:

>

> Everytime I hear that statistic I wonder if it's based

> on residential students coming out of deaf schools and

> how much support is coming from these children at

> home. I'm sure there are hearing high school students

> who might not be able to read much higher then that

> either when graduating fom high school, over here in

> California anyhow.

>

>

>

>

> My favorite thing to throw back at the person quoting that stat is

to inform

> them that the NY Times is written at a 9th grade reading level.

Yet most

> Americans, if asked, will tell you it's a high-brow paper and hard

to read.

>

> It's a meaningless statistic that has no relationship to our son.

Plus it

> annoys me, so I get sarcastic. LOL

>

> Best -- Jill

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/21/2006 10:25:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

babydewe2@... writes:

I think eventually there will be an updated study, but we may still be a few

years away from seeing results that don't sound so depressing.

Ah, and here my sardonic self steps up and questions whether when new

studies are done, those implanted children will be part of a " deaf " study since

they will be functioning more like the hearing population than the traditional

deaf population. Perhaps they will be considered HOH or " hearing impaired " and

therefore not part of a " deaf " study. And when new studies are done, will

parents of implanted kids think of their children as " deaf " in order to include

them in the testing survey?

Sorry to sound skeptical, but I've seen numbers crunched very creatively by

leaving out certain populations or demographic groups. My favorite is a local

school that claims and inordinate percentage of its graduates go on to

college. They base that fact on those who are accepted to any form of

post-secondary school, not those who go on to attend or actually complete it.

Misleading

at best.

-- Jill, the perennial skeptic

[Guest guest]

Last night, our TOD quoted to me the statistic that 80% of learning happens

as incidental listening. I don't know where that stat came from (didn't think

to ask) and I'm sure that is somewhat skewed towards language acquisition

and not things like math. But still, there is an inordinate amount of knowledge

that my own 12 year old has picked up just by overhearing conversations.

For instance, Ian and I were reviewing genetics as we drove to an

appointment (45 minutes in the car each way, study time!). We were discussing

Mendel's

beans as well as male and female chromosomes for an upcoming science test.

Later in the day, when it was just and me, she asked what would happen

if a person got an extra chromosome. She figured that if a boy got an extra

X, he might like to dress like a lady or do lady things, and if a lady got

and extra Y, well, she'd like to do man things. This was the logic of my then 6

year old ... she had taken in all that we had said about chromosome

determining traits. The only specific types we referred to were called X for

girls and

Y for boys. She skipped over the beans parts and reasoned out the rest.

Granted her conclusions were cliche assumptions based on male and female

behaviors, but all of that was based on one situation of incidental learning by

simply listening attentively to someone else's conversation. She got a

concept, vocabulary ... which leads me to question how much of her knowledge is

based on that kind of listening?

Something Ian has never had the benefit of? (Breaks my heart to think about

it too much.)'s vocabulary is amazing. But then again, she sat through

dozens of vocabulary study sessions where we all took turns making up sentences

to go with Ian's vocabulary lists. She added words that wouldn't be on her

own lists for another 4 years.

Our TOD (who is tutoring Ian over the summer in order to improve some SAT

and Regents language skills) also said that a colleague explained to her that if

you have a student write 10 sentences using a new vocabulary word, then the

child learns it, basically owns the word as part of his/her expanding

vocabulary. Unlike memorization which allows the child to spit back the

definition

but not make it into the child's expressive vocabulary.

We were discussing language acquisition for D/HOH kids and TOD teaching

strategies. She is always learning new stuff, looking for more ways to help her

kids. (Have I mentioned we adore her? LOL)

I find the topic of how we learn to be incredibly fascinating and amazing.

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

Actually, there was a study done recetnly in Australia, all kids with hearing

loss in the state of were identified on the basis of the health system

knowing they were hearing impaired. So it was a true population study, not a

population of kids in schools who were identified as " deaf " or hard of hearing.

I think they were all 7-8 years old. I don't think they did extra testing, but

maybe they did. But these kids were 1 to 2 SD behind typically hearing kids.

None of these kids had newborn hearing screening, which is what makes this

population so exciting to know about. Once my current crisis is over, I'll

look for the article.

[Guest guest]

Great explanation of how the assess the results and who was considered in

that classic statistic. Thanks! So, in short, in 1996, Gallaudet did an

assessment of the SAT results and re-confirmed that 4th grade statistic.

As far as I know, here in NY, infant screening was not available when my son

was born (1990) and so the children benefiting from the early intervention

that came with that newborn screening are not yet at the end of high school ...

not yet reached the target age of 17-18 used in the 1996 Gallaudet

assessment.

Does anyone know how often Gallaudet re-norms (re-evaluates, re-assesses)

this test? I also wonder when the kids benefiting from the newer infant

screening and EI programs will hit that target age? Perhaps Gallaudet should

wait

until then to reassess the norms.

Interesting ... thanks!

Jill

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/23/2006 9:27:15 A.M. Central Standard Time,

maryemapa@... writes:

\Sheri

There are some studies being done, I understand now, and Mark

Marschark? is conducting the studies. I think he is working with

some Northeast Deaf schools on several topics, this being one of

them.

Can't remember if I've already posted this:

_http://www.handsandvoices.org/articles/research/v9-2_marschark.htm_

(http://www.handsandvoices.org/articles/research/v9-2_marschark.htm)

Putz

Illinois Families for Hands & Voices

_www.handsandvoices.org_ (http://www.handsandvoices.org/)

_www.ilhandsandvoices.org_ (http://www.ilhandsandvoices.org/)

Email: support@...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/25/2006 10:00:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

Barbara.T.Mellert@... writes:

We also have the Scholastic dictionary of Idioms which is kind of fun.

Not only does it tell you what each expression means, it tells you where

it came from.

Barbara

Ian's first TOD gave that to him as a gift when they started working

together. He still has it one his shelf. I'd forgotten about that! Thanks!

Jill

[Guest guest]

When our boys were younger, we found the Amelia Bedelia books to be

excellent - they're chock full o'idioms! I think they're so stupid but

my boys loved them! I would read to them and then ask them if they knew

what " go fly a kite " means. It helped a bunch.

We also have the Scholastic dictionary of Idioms which is kind of fun.

Not only does it tell you what each expression means, it tells you where

it came from.

Barbara

Stefanie Cloutier wrote:

> It¹s funny, my son started reading Garfield cartoon books about a year ago,

> and honestly, it drives me nuts. He¹s such a sassy cat, and Ben has picked

> up some pretty annoying phrases. BUT it has given him access to idioms and

> colloquial language like crazy. So, as much as I detest the little orange

> cat, I¹m grateful for the language it has given my son. And he really gets

> the sarcasm! Of course, I¹m sure the fact that his father and I have that

> down pat doesn¹t hurt...

>

> Stefanie

> Mom to Ben, 7, severe/profound HOH, and Isabella, 11, mild loss

>

> on 7/24/06 6:55 PM, JillcWood@... at JillcWood@... wrote:

>

>

>>

>> Reading those cartoons with kids is such a great idea! We've always shared

>> that kind of stuff with friends and family (I confess that mailing cartoons

to

>> each other is quite common) so we've always had to explain to the kids why we

>> think they're funny. I never thought of that as teaching colloquial language

>> uses. I have a new respect for cartoons now (grin)

>>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

loves the Amelia Bedelia books, but the poor child just can't pronounce

her name. For a while she wanted us to call her Amelia Bedelia and she

would ask us what we wanted her to do. So when she went to my mom's house and

announced that she was Amea Bedea and she wanted something to do, my mom

had NO clue what she was talking about.

Debbie, mom to , 7, moderate SNHL and , 4, hearing

Barbara Mellert Barbara.T.Mellert@...> wrote:

When our boys were younger, we found the Amelia Bedelia books to be

excellent - they're chock full o'idioms! I think they're so stupid but

my boys loved them! I would read to them and then ask them if they knew

what " go fly a kite " means. It helped a bunch.

We also have the Scholastic dictionary of Idioms which is kind of fun.

Not only does it tell you what each expression means, it tells you where

it came from.

Barbara

Stefanie Cloutier wrote:

> It¹s funny, my son started reading Garfield cartoon books about a year ago,

> and honestly, it drives me nuts. He¹s such a sassy cat, and Ben has picked

> up some pretty annoying phrases. BUT it has given him access to idioms and

> colloquial language like crazy. So, as much as I detest the little orange

> cat, I¹m grateful for the language it has given my son. And he really gets

> the sarcasm! Of course, I¹m sure the fact that his father and I have that

> down pat doesn¹t hurt...

>

> Stefanie

> Mom to Ben, 7, severe/profound HOH, and Isabella, 11, mild loss

>

> on 7/24/06 6:55 PM, JillcWood@... at JillcWood@... wrote:

>

>

>>

>> Reading those cartoons with kids is such a great idea! We've always shared

>> that kind of stuff with friends and family (I confess that mailing cartoons

to

>> each other is quite common) so we've always had to explain to the kids why we

>> think they're funny. I never thought of that as teaching colloquial language

>> uses. I have a new respect for cartoons now (grin)

>>

>

>

>

>