Re: Gallaudet situation - warning

[Guest guest]

My grandson is part of both worlds with his CI. It seems that there are

predjudices that are out there, by the deaf community, towards people like my

grandson. These issues do affect people everyday. It seems this situation is

directly related to issues that are discussed here all the time. Respectfully

stating facts and opinions regarding the only major deaf/hard of Hearing

university would seem to be reasonable. Just because someone does not agree

does

not mean that you should not discuss.

Maybe as IEP Team member/Grandfather/advocate Im missing something here.

Will my grandson be resentfull of his CI when he grows up?? Will he be

discriminated against because he is neither hearing nor " fully Deaf " or his sign

language skills are not good enough? Of course there is no definite right or

wrong

answers....just opinions

I believe this is a great subject to discuss, with respect, Id like to hear

some of those opinions from people more in the know then myself.

[Guest guest]

My grandson is part of both worlds with his CI. It seems that there are

predjudices that are out there, by the deaf community, towards people like my

grandson. These issues do affect people everyday. It seems this situation is

directly related to issues that are discussed here all the time. Respectfully

stating facts and opinions regarding the only major deaf/hard of Hearing

university would seem to be reasonable. Just because someone does not agree

does

not mean that you should not discuss.

Maybe as IEP Team member/Grandfather/advocate Im missing something here.

Will my grandson be resentfull of his CI when he grows up?? Will he be

discriminated against because he is neither hearing nor " fully Deaf " or his sign

language skills are not good enough? Of course there is no definite right or

wrong

answers....just opinions

I believe this is a great subject to discuss, with respect, Id like to hear

some of those opinions from people more in the know then myself.

[Guest guest]

My grandson is part of both worlds with his CI. It seems that there are

predjudices that are out there, by the deaf community, towards people like my

grandson. These issues do affect people everyday. It seems this situation is

directly related to issues that are discussed here all the time. Respectfully

stating facts and opinions regarding the only major deaf/hard of Hearing

university would seem to be reasonable. Just because someone does not agree

does

not mean that you should not discuss.

Maybe as IEP Team member/Grandfather/advocate Im missing something here.

Will my grandson be resentfull of his CI when he grows up?? Will he be

discriminated against because he is neither hearing nor " fully Deaf " or his sign

language skills are not good enough? Of course there is no definite right or

wrong

answers....just opinions

I believe this is a great subject to discuss, with respect, Id like to hear

some of those opinions from people more in the know then myself.

[Guest guest]

Hello

When this topic was brought up today, Barbara specifically urged

caution on it. We have parents on this list who are supportive of

the protestors and have their own reasons why - back then (June

timeframe) I too recommended that this not even be discussed, but

the parents were truly curious and wanted to know why. None of us

on this list, with the exception of a handful of parents, knows all

the reasons why the students - AND faculty - AND parents who have

their kids at Kendall and MSSD - protested this appointment.

I would request that all of us respect these parents also. We all

have had trouble with administrators with special day programs and

mainstream programs within our own districts; part of what's going

at Gallaudet is related to that also.

>

> It seems that Gallaudet graduates less then 50% of their students.

Seems the

> inmates are running the asylum there. I had an experience with a

teacher who

> was against my grandsons CI. With the advances in technology,

could be that,

> this universities days may be numbered. Escpecially considering

they get over

> 100 million a year in tax dollars, and they are letting a student

populace

> that cannot even graduate, dictate whom shall be their president.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I remember those early years of feeling so insecure because I felt like

I didn't know anything, and I, as the parent, was really expected to know

everything. Information is important. I would hope anyone with anything to

share with (pro or con on the subject) would email her off-list to

help her out. We have all been there, and I would have been left with a

very bad taste in my mouth if the people who could help me turned their

backs on me for political reasons. I also think we need to respect the

people on the list who really aren't interested in hearing, either for the

first time or again, the political stuff of Gallaudet. Please respect

everyone on this list, and help out off-list. Tish

[Guest guest]

Thanks Tish for understanding what I need to hear from everyone.

Also, thanks to all who have taken the time to post on the list and

to email me privately. I certainly didn't mean to ignite any big

debates just wanted to learn from others who have been there and

know how I feel. I don't really want to get into the politics of the

situation (I don't know enough about it to do so), more I just

wanted to understand it from the different perspectives and see how

others have dealt with this issue with their children. I have

learned so much from you all already concerning the mechanics of

hearing loss and the daily issues that arise. That's why I ventured

to ask about this issue - something that wasn't related to what I

can learn in a book. Hope that makes sense. I also think hearing

different views is healthy and very helpful to parents trying to

find their way. Thanks again to all who have posted.

>

> ,

> I remember those early years of feeling so insecure because I

felt like

> I didn't know anything, and I, as the parent, was really expected

to know

> everything. Information is important. I would hope anyone with

anything to

> share with (pro or con on the subject) would email her

off-list to

> help her out. We have all been there, and I would have been left

with a

> very bad taste in my mouth if the people who could help me turned

their

> backs on me for political reasons. I also think we need to

respect the

> people on the list who really aren't interested in hearing, either

for the

> first time or again, the political stuff of Gallaudet. Please

respect

> everyone on this list, and help out off-list. Tish

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Tish for understanding what I need to hear from everyone.

Also, thanks to all who have taken the time to post on the list and

to email me privately. I certainly didn't mean to ignite any big

debates just wanted to learn from others who have been there and

know how I feel. I don't really want to get into the politics of the

situation (I don't know enough about it to do so), more I just

wanted to understand it from the different perspectives and see how

others have dealt with this issue with their children. I have

learned so much from you all already concerning the mechanics of

hearing loss and the daily issues that arise. That's why I ventured

to ask about this issue - something that wasn't related to what I

can learn in a book. Hope that makes sense. I also think hearing

different views is healthy and very helpful to parents trying to

find their way. Thanks again to all who have posted.

>

> ,

> I remember those early years of feeling so insecure because I

felt like

> I didn't know anything, and I, as the parent, was really expected

to know

> everything. Information is important. I would hope anyone with

anything to

> share with (pro or con on the subject) would email her

off-list to

> help her out. We have all been there, and I would have been left

with a

> very bad taste in my mouth if the people who could help me turned

their

> backs on me for political reasons. I also think we need to

respect the

> people on the list who really aren't interested in hearing, either

for the

> first time or again, the political stuff of Gallaudet. Please

respect

> everyone on this list, and help out off-list. Tish

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Tish for understanding what I need to hear from everyone.

Also, thanks to all who have taken the time to post on the list and

to email me privately. I certainly didn't mean to ignite any big

debates just wanted to learn from others who have been there and

know how I feel. I don't really want to get into the politics of the

situation (I don't know enough about it to do so), more I just

wanted to understand it from the different perspectives and see how

others have dealt with this issue with their children. I have

learned so much from you all already concerning the mechanics of

hearing loss and the daily issues that arise. That's why I ventured

to ask about this issue - something that wasn't related to what I

can learn in a book. Hope that makes sense. I also think hearing

different views is healthy and very helpful to parents trying to

find their way. Thanks again to all who have posted.

>

> ,

> I remember those early years of feeling so insecure because I

felt like

> I didn't know anything, and I, as the parent, was really expected

to know

> everything. Information is important. I would hope anyone with

anything to

> share with (pro or con on the subject) would email her

off-list to

> help her out. We have all been there, and I would have been left

with a

> very bad taste in my mouth if the people who could help me turned

their

> backs on me for political reasons. I also think we need to

respect the

> people on the list who really aren't interested in hearing, either

for the

> first time or again, the political stuff of Gallaudet. Please

respect

> everyone on this list, and help out off-list. Tish

>

[Guest guest]

I sympathize and empathize with you...but I want to tell you this

one thing. The deaf community who sign are not alone in their

prejudice. We had several occasions and situations in " progressive "

Los Angeles amd Sam Simeon, CA where Hayley was looked at strangely

by people who grew up orally, or raised their kids orally. Comments

were made such as " my parents wanted me to be normal " .

When looking for a CI, we were turned down - without her having even

been seen - because she signed, by a well known clinic. We were

told, that we could make an appointment, but that right now she

would never make the cut.

For all - There is no problem having a conversation or discussion

about this - but we need everyone to think about what they write

before they hit " send " . Think about the parent that you've been

talking with or the parent who runs websites about deafness that

have assisted you in some way - if you're saying something that

could be ...please just be respectful and extremely careful with

this topic. I know that we had to go into Moderate mode in the

past, where every post is monitored, and we would hate for that to

happen.

I wanted to address the question about your grandson resenting his

CI....if he does hate it and resents it, he might take it off and

decide to use sign. That is a slight possibility. Then again,

maybe he won't. Support him, love him - as an involved grandfather,

I know you do. If that time ever comes, tell him you understand.

Know that you did your best and tried to make the right decision for

him. It will all be fine.

We may have been lucky, in fact I know we are but to have found a

school that teaches in sign language but provides Speech and

Auditory services was finding a gold mine. So the kids sign, but

some of the CI kids are very oral, and some of the aided kids are

just as oral if not more oral than the CI kids...and the deaf kids

who dont have amplification can communicate fine with their aided or

implanted friends. The basis and strong community this school

provides will help my kid down the road.

Appreciate everybody's cooperation with this issue in keeping this

topic as uninflammatory as possible.

Thanks,

>

> My grandson is part of both worlds with his CI. It seems that

there are

> predjudices that are out there, by the deaf community, towards

people like my

> grandson. These issues do affect people everyday. It seems this

situation is

> directly related to issues that are discussed here all the time.

Respectfully

> stating facts and opinions regarding the only major deaf/hard of

Hearing

> university would seem to be reasonable. Just because someone does

not agree does

> not mean that you should not discuss.

>

> Maybe as IEP Team member/Grandfather/advocate Im missing something

here.

> Will my grandson be resentfull of his CI when he grows up?? Will

he be

> discriminated against because he is neither hearing nor " fully

Deaf " or his sign

> language skills are not good enough? Of course there is no

definite right or wrong

> answers....just opinions

>

> I believe this is a great subject to discuss, with respect, Id

like to hear

> some of those opinions from people more in the know then myself.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/30/2006 8:07:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

SAUCYJAK@... writes:

Maybe as IEP Team member/Grandfather/Maybe as IEP Team member/Grandfather

Will my grandson be resentfull of his CI when he grows up?? Will he be

discriminated against because he is neither hearing nor " fully Deaf " or his

sign

language skills are not good enough? Of course there is no definite right or

wrong

answers....just opinions

I believe this is a great subject to discuss, with respect, Id like to hear

some of those opinions from people more in the know then myself.

Thanks for the great post. You're right, we should be able to discuss this

rationally. The problem is that this particular topic has become a disaster in

the past, on other list serves, and the idea of handling it calmly and

rationally can go out the window in a matter of seconds. It's just that

volatile.

Let me try to explain, to give an overview of the entire situation with no

intention of opening up an argument of any sort. Just an overview, minus any

opinion of who's right at Gallaudet.

There is a history at Gallaudet. About 20 years ago there was another

student/faculty protest. They felt a hearing president was unacceptable and

through

protests like the ones we're reading about now, were able to replace him

with a deaf man. This was a great victory and made a statement about deaf

people's abilities to hold such positions. The Deaf community was understandably

proud of their activism and success. That man, I. King Jordan, is retiring and

Dr Jane Fernandes was appointed to replace him.

The recent protest had the same intention, to replace Dr. Fernandes. The

debate over her ability to run the school is couched in some very partisan

rhetoric with accusations being hurled fast-and-furious. Much of the perception

(be it right or wrong) is that the lady is being forced out of office because

she " isn't deaf enough " to be the head of " the " Deaf university. I've read a

lot on her credentials or lack of them, the conflict over her personality and

discussions on how deaf she really is. And I could go into those details, but

this isn't the place for that -- it's easy enough to do this research online

if anyone is interested in learning all the grisly details.

What discussing this protest brings up is the idea of being " deaf enough "

and that is where the emotions start to flare.

So, to answer your questions:

No, I don't think your grandson will resent his CI. From everyone I've

talked to who has one, they love it. CIs are changing what it means to be deaf,

they are redefining things. And change can be difficult. I'd be lying to you if

I said that the Deaf community wasn't conflicted over the concept of CIs and

whether people should get them for themselves or for their children.

Emotions run very high on this topic. There are Deaf people out there who will

shun

him, some who will be incredibly rude to you as the hearing parent, and

others who will welcome you both.

I know this from experience because of the reception my son and I have

gotten from some Deaf people. They have been downright rude, actually hateful

in

their comments to me. I have been accused of not loving my son because I

forced him to be oral -- never mind that my son was actually born hearing.

Emotions over issues like CIs or an oral education are hot topics and you could

definitely encounter deaf people who are very angry over these issues.

But there are also a huge number of deaf people who will welcome you and

your grandson, who will be supportive, informative and wonderful.

Will he be discriminated against because of his signing ability -- yes and

no. Again, it will depend on who you encounter. We have met deaf

children/adults who were incredibly mean and rude to Ian because of his lack of

signing

ability and his ease of speaking. And we've encountered others who laughingly

correct our signing and help us learn more.

It all comes down to which deaf people you meet. Just like it depends on

which hearing people you meet and how they treat our D/HOH kids.

We had a scout leader who told Ian that he " hears what he wants to " and that

he " uses his hearing loss to get what he wants. " The man was intolerant and

rude -- and amazingly in a position of leadership for young people. My son

dismissed him as " a jerk " and chose to ignore him and seek out the support and

help of other adult leaders. I gave my husband the option of dealing with that

man immediately, or I would have. The man lasted out the year before being

replaced as scout master. He also had a problem with children " of color " and

needed to be replaced for many valid reasons.

Just like the mean deaf people, that man is in the minority. We encounter

more positive and supportive people than we do rude ones. But that doesn't mean

that we won't encounter more rude ones in the future. The fact that Ian is

so oral means that he is a magnet for some deaf people who feel they need to

share with me their anger over how they think we've raised our son. (shrug) I

now ignore them and cut them off. I don't even bother to try and explain

anymore. I can't change their minds anymore than I could educate that bigot.

That is what the Gallaudet discussion brings up in debates, whether it's

intended or not. Who is " really " deaf? Who is worthy of that appellation ...

and I find it an invalid debate. My son will be deaf, where he fits onto the

" really Deaf " hierarchy ladder (at the very bottom, btw) has become irrelevant.

There really is no organized Deaf community that my son has to conquer, he

is not obliged to find a way to win acceptance in it. It is actually a loose

collection of people who live all over the country, some will be mean, some

will be supportive, some won't like Ian because they just don't like Ian

regardless of his deafness. He will find the people who like him for who he is

and

create his life with those people playing a part. He is learning to sign,

even though he is about as oral as a kid can get. That allows him to " talk "

with

more deaf people, broadening his world which is our intent.

And, in my opinion, the debate serves no purpose and only undermines

everyone: deaf, Deaf, HOH and hearing. That's why I won't enter into it, because

I

see the debate itself as a damaging entity that doesn't serve to clarify

anything. I understand the emotions on both sides. I empathize but I've also

seen

that this topic usually ends with people angry or hurt and certainly not

talking rationally.

Hope this helps -- Jill

[Guest guest]

Very good points. Right now my grandson is using lots of sign and beginning

to become more verbal 2 years post implant(implanted at 4 years old) He is

very fortunate to have a very good TOD for kindergarten and an excellent

straight shooting, concerned HOH consultant from the state. I monitor and am

very

involved as his mother is young and a college student and has only so much

time. She does have a very supportive boyfriend/fiance.

I guess what stood out to me about the situation at Gallaudet, was the

intolerance of someone who is deaf but read lips. I saw her on TV signing away

and

speaking. She is deaf and should not be shunned because she is using total

communication. It got me thinking about where all our young kids with CI's will

fit in...as some will do better then others......Im learning everyday....

Thank you for your comments

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/1/2006 9:31:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

SAUCYJAK@... writes:

I guess what stood out to me about the situation at Gallaudet, was the

intolerance of someone who is deaf but read lips. I saw her on TV signing

away and

speaking. She is deaf and should not be shunned because she is using total

communication.

Jack (is that really your name or just your screen name? It's my dad's name.)

First, on a rather personal note, I am a Girl Scout leader and there are two

girls in my troop who are like your grandson. They've been in my troop for

over 3 years and one mom I have met only twice. Those moms are/were quite young

and their own dads stepped into help them raise those girls. I can tell you

with a certainty that those Grandpas have made a world of difference for

those girls. Their lives are better, more solid, more secure because of those

men

and I applaud you for your involvement and support. I'm sure it will make a

world of difference for your grandson as well.

There was a really good editorial in the NY Times about the Gallaudet issue

and another list serve supplied a link. A lot of people had trouble getting to

the spot, but I read the Times everyday, so I had already read it. Someone

posted it to that list and I can send it to you off-list if you would life.

In that article, for the first time that I've seen, a cogent, well articulated

explanation was put forward about the core issues. Much of what can be found

on the websites, blogs and in the media was what I described before --

collections of highly charged commentary without a lot of supportive background

material, inevitably spiraling back to the question of Dr. Fernandes' level of

deafness.

What you are talking about above is what we've encountered. Ian is oral, he

speaks like a hearing person and that alone is enough for some people to

literally shun him. Some older deaf people were forced to be oral or were

marginalized because of their lack of speaking skills. Kids can be mean in

school,

as can adults. And while I understand that anger, it is often quite misplaced

and aimed at us " hearies " (what some deaf people call us non-deaf people) no

matter what the circumstances.

When I inquired (on a different list!) about a CI for my son, I was flamed.

My son was born hearing and wants to keep hearing. The doctor had told him

that a CI could be in his future. So he had questions and fears, and who better

to learn from than people with experience? A CI is a " maybe " in my son's

future, but he needs to learn about his options and it's my job to help him. So

I asked.

On this list, people gave me straight answers, they were supportive and

helpful about aiming me to places where I could find more answers. Some even

told

me funny stories. Yet on another list I was accused of attempting to

disfigure my son. I was told that I was a bad mother because I couldn't love

him for

who was: a deaf child. That us hearing people think we need to fix

everything/everyone and we are terrible people for not being able to accept our

own

children. The comments were so very nasty that I won't repeat most of them.

But in those posts I heard something more. I heard the hurt and the anger of

people who had not had the support and love that my children, that our

children here, are getting. We encountered the same anger in person: right up

in

my face, a woman " screamed " at me at a social event and it took a generous

interpreter to step in and help me. That was one of our first forays into the

Deaf community. I was new to all this back then and that terrified me for my

son's future. Yet I empathize with those people. I really do.

On the other hand, they had no right to put their pain and anger on me. I'm

not their mother and didn't cause their pain. They certainly did not have the

right to mistreat or ridicule my son. I expected support from these people

and I instead got a level of anger I had never before encountered. It put us

off from trying any contact with the Deaf Community for several years.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, just telling you the anger I

encountered by simply asking a few questions or daring to show up at a Deaf

event

as the hearing mother of a " not really deaf " child. The anger over who is

deaf, who understands, even over who has the right to an opinion is amazing.

But people here were supportive of us, urged us to try again. Urged me to

get more signing skills, even if I was self-taught online, and to try again and

again because I was not having a normal experience with deaf people. Most of

them are kind and generous and I needed to find those people.

I did, and with my encouragement Ian did too. We've had great experiences

since then and now I even have a collection of funny stories about the things

I've unintentionally " said " when signing and turning my hands in the wrong

way. For instance, the worst was repeatedly signing a local sign for " penis "

during a crowded riverside fair -- very funny and incredibly embarrassing! But

the Deaf woman I was talking with laughed at/with me, corrected my hand

position and then finger spelled p-e-n-i-s. Everyone around was laughing as my

chin

hit my chest and I blushed to a level of red that I don't think I'll ever

duplicate. My son was holding his stomach, he was laughing so hard. It's still

his favorite " my mom is hysterical " story.

Our ASL tutor is the hearing child of deaf parents. It turns out that her

dad is a beloved local figure, big in local advocacy and he teaches ASL at a

local college. Who knew! Somehow we landed in with local deaf royalty. We

attended their daughter's HS graduation and I helped interpret the speeches and

explain/translate/sign the " kid speak, " movie and TV show references. It was a

wonderful experience and I was honored to have been included as though we

were family.

Sometimes I think things are changing now overall because of our kids.

Things seem a bit more tolerant among the younger ones because there are more

options, more supports in place. And kids are getting identified earlier which

is

better for everyone. But then the Gallaudet thing comes up and I see all

that anger and vitriol and I wonder all over again.

I know we'll encounter more mean or angry people, hearing and deaf. Ian is

not going to have an easy life, we know that. The kid has an incredible amount

of challenges coming his way on so many different fronts. And the debates as

to whether he is " really deaf' or " deaf enough " are so pointless and

hurtful. He does walk between the two worlds and we had to fight to make sure he

didn't fall between the cracks in school. But our long-term goal has always

been

to make sure he's prepared for what's coming.

We don't shield Ian from the bad encounters, we never have. Instead we

talked about why those people were so mean or rude, about how hard things must

have been for them to be so angry at a total stranger. And the stupid intolerant

hearing people get the same treatment, we talk about how to deal with those

situations as they come up. Like with that scout master, he chose someone else

to work with as his mentor and in the process became friends with a much

better man.

We have a silly routine we do in Walmart (or any store) when someone comes

up behind Ian and clears their throat or sighs loudly indicating he should

move, but Ian can't hear that and therefore doesn't move out of their way. His

aids are bright blue -- they are so easily noticed, but people don't think. My

fave is when the foot tapping starts, LOL, as though that helps?! So, I tap

Ian on the shoulder and sign (while talking) that the rude woman giving him a

mean look didn't realize he was deaf, so could he step aside? It usually

embarrasses the daylights out of the rude person, and makes Ian laugh once they

walk away.

Humor, patience and the ability to look for alternative solutions are all

tools in his arsenal now. Thanks goodness! For years I worried about all that

as well. Like I've said before, I worry a lot. (grin)

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

Thanks for Sharing Jill. I worry alot too. But at the same time, I see so

many special things about my grandson, Its as though what he lacks in hearing is

made up in other areas. He has also enriched my life so much I can't put it

into words.

Thanks again

Mitch(my real name)

[Guest guest]

Jill,

Once again you have done a fabulous job explaining the situation without

any emotion only clarifying for the rest. My experience has been much

the same. I have lived in many places being a military family. We have

had good and bad experiences with both ends of the spectrum. Thank you

for taking the time to write such a wonderful note. Hopefully, this

will end some of this discussion. It is indeed a very difficult one.

Thanks for your gift of writing. You seem to be almost always capable

of putting it all in perspective.

Tammy

Mom to , 15 and , 11 both hearing

and to , 8 profoundly deaf with MedEl CI 2003

Tamala S. Woodburn

Creative Memories Consultant

your life - your story - your way

www.mycmsite.com/TammyWoodburn

http://www.creativememories.com/TammyWoodburn>

My ID #38348750

Where are your photos?

For 20 FREE prints, go to http://www.cmphotocenter.com/>

www.cmphotocenter.com enter my ID #38348750

Need ideas? Try a subscription to Lasting Moments magazine enter my ID

#38348750

Call me for:

Organizational Classes: Let's get those piles of pictures organized!

Picfolio Parties: Our pocket page album! Bring 170 photos and allot 2

hours of time

Get Togethers: Learn the quick and simple way to create a family

scrapbook

One-on One: I'll come to your home and help you get your project

started

Digital Storybooks: Create beautiful storybooks from your digital

images. Just click, drag and drop. It's as easy as it sounds!

COMING SOON! You are just weeks away from being able to complete

professional quality StoryBooks using your digital images. Stitched

binding, high quality, safe photo-paper and hundreds of templates to

choose from. It's so easy!

Enter my ID #38348750

I never want to send unwanted emails. If you wish to be removed from my

list, just reply with REMOVE in the subject line.

Re: Re: Gallaudet situation - warning

In a message dated 10/30/2006 8:07:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

SAUCYJAK (AT) AOL (DOT) COM writes:

Maybe as IEP Team member/Grandfather/Maybe as IEP Team

member/Grandfather

Will my grandson be resentfull of his CI when he grows up?? Will he be

discriminated against because he is neither hearing nor " fully Deaf " or

his

sign

language skills are not good enough? Of course there is no definite

right or

wrong

answers....just opinions

I believe this is a great subject to discuss, with respect, Id like to

hear

some of those opinions from people more in the know then myself.

Thanks for the great post. You're right, we should be able to discuss

this

rationally. The problem is that this particular topic has become a

disaster in

the past, on other list serves, and the idea of handling it calmly and

rationally can go out the window in a matter of seconds. It's just that

volatile.

Let me try to explain, to give an overview of the entire situation with

no

intention of opening up an argument of any sort. Just an overview, minus

any

opinion of who's right at Gallaudet.

There is a history at Gallaudet. About 20 years ago there was another

student/faculty protest. They felt a hearing president was unacceptable

and through

protests like the ones we're reading about now, were able to replace him

with a deaf man. This was a great victory and made a statement about

deaf

people's abilities to hold such positions. The Deaf community was

understandably

proud of their activism and success. That man, I. King Jordan, is

retiring and

Dr Jane Fernandes was appointed to replace him.

The recent protest had the same intention, to replace Dr. Fernandes. The

debate over her ability to run the school is couched in some very

partisan

rhetoric with accusations being hurled fast-and-furious. Much of the

perception

(be it right or wrong) is that the lady is being forced out of office

because

she " isn't deaf enough " to be the head of " the " Deaf university. I've

read a

lot on her credentials or lack of them, the conflict over her

personality and

discussions on how deaf she really is. And I could go into those

details, but

this isn't the place for that -- it's easy enough to do this research

online

if anyone is interested in learning all the grisly details.

What discussing this protest brings up is the idea of being " deaf

enough "

and that is where the emotions start to flare.

So, to answer your questions:

No, I don't think your grandson will resent his CI. From everyone I've

talked to who has one, they love it. CIs are changing what it means to

be deaf,

they are redefining things. And change can be difficult. I'd be lying to

you if

I said that the Deaf community wasn't conflicted over the concept of CIs

and

whether people should get them for themselves or for their children.

Emotions run very high on this topic. There are Deaf people out there

who will shun

him, some who will be incredibly rude to you as the hearing parent, and

others who will welcome you both.

I know this from experience because of the reception my son and I have

gotten from some Deaf people. They have been downright rude, actually

hateful in

their comments to me. I have been accused of not loving my son because I

forced him to be oral -- never mind that my son was actually born

hearing.

Emotions over issues like CIs or an oral education are hot topics and

you could

definitely encounter deaf people who are very angry over these issues.

But there are also a huge number of deaf people who will welcome you and

your grandson, who will be supportive, informative and wonderful.

Will he be discriminated against because of his signing ability -- yes

and

no. Again, it will depend on who you encounter. We have met deaf

children/adults who were incredibly mean and rude to Ian because of his

lack of signing

ability and his ease of speaking. And we've encountered others who

laughingly

correct our signing and help us learn more.

It all comes down to which deaf people you meet. Just like it depends on

which hearing people you meet and how they treat our D/HOH kids.

We had a scout leader who told Ian that he " hears what he wants to " and

that

he " uses his hearing loss to get what he wants. " The man was intolerant

and

rude -- and amazingly in a position of leadership for young people. My

son

dismissed him as " a jerk " and chose to ignore him and seek out the

support and

help of other adult leaders. I gave my husband the option of dealing

with that

man immediately, or I would have. The man lasted out the year before

being

replaced as scout master. He also had a problem with children " of color "

and

needed to be replaced for many valid reasons.

Just like the mean deaf people, that man is in the minority. We

encounter

more positive and supportive people than we do rude ones. But that

doesn't mean

that we won't encounter more rude ones in the future. The fact that Ian

is

so oral means that he is a magnet for some deaf people who feel they

need to

share with me their anger over how they think we've raised our son.

(shrug) I

now ignore them and cut them off. I don't even bother to try and explain

anymore. I can't change their minds anymore than I could educate that

bigot.

That is what the Gallaudet discussion brings up in debates, whether it's

intended or not. Who is " really " deaf? Who is worthy of that appellation

....

and I find it an invalid debate. My son will be deaf, where he fits onto

the

" really Deaf " hierarchy ladder (at the very bottom, btw) has become

irrelevant.

There really is no organized Deaf community that my son has to conquer,

he

is not obliged to find a way to win acceptance in it. It is actually a

loose

collection of people who live all over the country, some will be mean,

some

will be supportive, some won't like Ian because they just don't like Ian

regardless of his deafness. He will find the people who like him for who

he is and

create his life with those people playing a part. He is learning to

sign,

even though he is about as oral as a kid can get. That allows him to

" talk " with

more deaf people, broadening his world which is our intent.

And, in my opinion, the debate serves no purpose and only undermines

everyone: deaf, Deaf, HOH and hearing. That's why I won't enter into it,

because I

see the debate itself as a damaging entity that doesn't serve to clarify

anything. I understand the emotions on both sides. I empathize but I've

also seen

that this topic usually ends with people angry or hurt and certainly not

talking rationally.

Hope this helps -- Jill

[Guest guest]

I think all of us have encountered prejudice in one way or another

towards our children. If it's not " why don't you sign with them " , it's

" why aren't they oral " and on and on. There are difficult people all

over who seem to have to have their say-so in things. Many of you

weren't around when Listen-up was started. The listserve began because

of arguments over communication methods (that got as ugly as I've ever

seen) on another listserve - that's why we're so careful when you first

ask to be a member that you will indeed " agree to abide by the rules of

the listserve. "

And that's where having the Listen-up listserve is SO nice. I think

most - if not all - of us do realize that the right communication method

to raise your child with is what works for your child and your family.

It's very, very personal. It's so nice to be amongst a group of parents

who " get " that.

Barbara

[Guest guest]

I'm glad that there is a generation of children like the ones on this

list, (even if they may be a minority) that are growing up both signing

and/or oral, just learning to cope with hearing loss, and learning to

practice empathy and compassion for all.

Fl

[Guest guest]

" So, I tap

Ian on the shoulder and sign (while talking) that the rude woman giving him a

mean look didn't realize he was deaf, so could he step aside? "

ROFLMAO!!!!!!! I wanna learn how to sign that!!!!!!!!!!! Are you up for giving

lessons?

Selena

Mom of 5, all with diffrent special needs, including Hailey age 4, bilateral

Sensori-neural, moderate-severe, progressive loss, bilaterally aided

---------------------------------

We have the perfect Group for you. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups.

[Guest guest]

Jill wrote:

" So, I tap Ian on the shoulder and sign (while talking) that the rude woman

giving him a

mean look didn't realize he was deaf, so could he step aside? "

And then Selena wrote:

ROFLMAO!!!!!!! I wanna learn how to sign that!!!!!!!!!!! Are you up for

giving lessons?

**

Oh, add me to the list!

As horrible as it sounds, this was part of why I was so excited to get

's TransEar - it finally makes his hearing issues " visible " to the

outside world. I can't count how many times adults have gotten out-and-out

*mad* at him because he hasn't heard them come up behind him, or ask him to

move, or so on and so on. And even with his bright orange and red patterned

Ear Gear, people still just don't seem to get it.

Personally, I love it when 's younger brother takes over in this kind

of situation - because a 7 year old can be so much more blatant than I

politely can. " , you've got someone on your bad side AGAIN!!!! "

Kris

Mom to (8, Profound/Complete SNL, Left Ear) and Ethan (7, hearing)

[Guest guest]

Jill wrote:

" So, I tap Ian on the shoulder and sign (while talking) that the rude woman

giving him a

mean look didn't realize he was deaf, so could he step aside? "

And then Selena wrote:

ROFLMAO!!!!!!! I wanna learn how to sign that!!!!!!!!!!! Are you up for

giving lessons?

**

Oh, add me to the list!

As horrible as it sounds, this was part of why I was so excited to get

's TransEar - it finally makes his hearing issues " visible " to the

outside world. I can't count how many times adults have gotten out-and-out

*mad* at him because he hasn't heard them come up behind him, or ask him to

move, or so on and so on. And even with his bright orange and red patterned

Ear Gear, people still just don't seem to get it.

Personally, I love it when 's younger brother takes over in this kind

of situation - because a 7 year old can be so much more blatant than I

politely can. " , you've got someone on your bad side AGAIN!!!! "

Kris

Mom to (8, Profound/Complete SNL, Left Ear) and Ethan (7, hearing)

[Guest guest]

Jill wrote:

" So, I tap Ian on the shoulder and sign (while talking) that the rude woman

giving him a

mean look didn't realize he was deaf, so could he step aside? "

And then Selena wrote:

ROFLMAO!!!!!!! I wanna learn how to sign that!!!!!!!!!!! Are you up for

giving lessons?

**

Oh, add me to the list!

As horrible as it sounds, this was part of why I was so excited to get

's TransEar - it finally makes his hearing issues " visible " to the

outside world. I can't count how many times adults have gotten out-and-out

*mad* at him because he hasn't heard them come up behind him, or ask him to

move, or so on and so on. And even with his bright orange and red patterned

Ear Gear, people still just don't seem to get it.

Personally, I love it when 's younger brother takes over in this kind

of situation - because a 7 year old can be so much more blatant than I

politely can. " , you've got someone on your bad side AGAIN!!!! "

Kris

Mom to (8, Profound/Complete SNL, Left Ear) and Ethan (7, hearing)