Re: Dosage question?

[Guest guest]

-I guess I am confused here too. The way I read this it would be

600mg/100ml. In that case I come up with 8.4.

-- In , " deedomwho "

<dpavic7672@a...> wrote:

> The perscription reads...'Augmentin ES 600mg ..give 500mg bid for

8

> days.'

>

> How would you break this down for the patient? Please show how you

> did it. The pharmacist came up with 4.2ml. But I would like to

know

> how he arrived at that answer. Thank you in advance

[Guest guest]

-Okay, guess I jumped the gun and I am really confused on this one.

Augmenten does not come in an ES on further investigation. Is this a

real or practice scenario. And would you not need to know the total

volume of the suspension?

-- In , " deedomwho "

<dpavic7672@a...> wrote:

> The perscription reads...'Augmentin ES 600mg ..give 500mg bid for

8

> days.'

>

> How would you break this down for the patient? Please show how you

> did it. The pharmacist came up with 4.2ml. But I would like to

know

> how he arrived at that answer. Thank you in advance

[Guest guest]

This is an example of a ratio and proportion equation. Since the

strength of the suspension is 600 mg/5 mL, and the patient is taking

500 mg, set it up to look like this:

600 mg 500 mg

------- = --------

5 mL X

To solve for X, cross multiply to get the equation 600 X = 2500

X = 4.166666 or round to 4.2 mL

Jeanetta has some awesome math explanations in the file section if

you need more info. Good luck!

> The perscription reads...'Augmentin ES 600mg ..give 500mg bid for

8

> days.'

>

> How would you break this down for the patient? Please show how you

> did it. The pharmacist came up with 4.2ml. But I would like to

know

> how he arrived at that answer. Thank you in advance

[Guest guest]

Augmentin does have an ES liquid, which is 600mg of Amoxicillin and 42.9 mg

of Clavulanic Acid per 5 ml's (1 teaspoonful).

The Clavulanic Acid does not actually factor into this math.

So you have:

600 mg per 5 ml = 500 mg per ?? ml

To put it into a formula, you can:

600 mg . . . . 500 mg

----------- = ---------------

5 ml . . . . . .? ml

When you cross multiply and divide, you get:

500 * 5 = 2500

2500 / 600 = 4.17 ml

So rounding up to 4.2 ml is acceptable.

For 2 x/day, it's 8.4 ml a day. For 10 days = 84 ml. The smallest size

that Augmentin ES comes in is a 125ml, so you'd have to make sure and put a

discard remainder after 10 days notice on the bottle somewhere and the

pharmacist will have to reinforce the information with whomever is picking

up the prescription.

Della

Cat Haven, Inc

A No-Kill Cat Rescue (501c3)

Houston, Tx

www.cat-haven.org

Dosage question?

The perscription reads...'Augmentin ES 600mg ..give 500mg bid for 8 days.'

How would you break this down for the patient? Please show how you did it.

The pharmacist came up with 4.2ml. But I would like to know how he arrived

at that answer. Thank you in advance

[Guest guest]

Hello,

I understand how to do that now that you have added that it is 600mg/5ml. Did

you just know that that particular suspension is 600mg/5ml? I couldn't do that

problem until I had the strength of the suspension.

CPhT

a Ellis <erica_ellis@...> wrote:

This is an example of a ratio and proportion equation. Since the

strength of the suspension is 600 mg/5 mL, and the patient is taking

500 mg, set it up to look like this:

600 mg 500 mg

------- = --------

5 mL X

To solve for X, cross multiply to get the equation 600 X = 2500

X = 4.166666 or round to 4.2 mL

Jeanetta has some awesome math explanations in the file section if

you need more info. Good luck!

> The perscription reads...'Augmentin ES 600mg ..give 500mg bid for

8

> days.'

>

> How would you break this down for the patient? Please show how you

> did it. The pharmacist came up with 4.2ml. But I would like to

know

> how he arrived at that answer. Thank you in advance

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

,

I checked the bottle to verify, but you could also look it up in a

reference, such as Drug Facts and Comparisons or even the PDR. The

bottle, however, is the best source for the information specific to

the drug.

a Ellis, CPhT

> > The perscription reads...'Augmentin ES 600mg ..give 500mg bid

for

> 8

> > days.'

> >

> > How would you break this down for the patient? Please show how

you

> > did it. The pharmacist came up with 4.2ml. But I would like to

> know

> > how he arrived at that answer. Thank you in advance

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Augmentin ES 600mg/5ml reconstitutable suspension has not been discontinued.

It's available in 50, 75, 100, 150 and 200 ml bottles. Did I miss something

here?

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Augmentin ES is available in only one strength - 600mg/5ml. It was introduced

shortly before Augmentin became available in a generic form.

.

> Hello,

> I understand how to do that now that you have added that it is

600mg/5ml. Did you just know that that particular suspension is

600mg/5ml? I couldn't do that problem until I had the strength of

the suspension.

> CPhT

[Guest guest]

Thank you (and everyone else) for the explanation on this. It is a

great breakdown. Once again ...THANK YOU

> Augmentin does have an ES liquid, which is 600mg of Amoxicillin and

42.9 mg

> of Clavulanic Acid per 5 ml's (1 teaspoonful).

>

> The Clavulanic Acid does not actually factor into this math.

>

> So you have:

>

> 600 mg per 5 ml = 500 mg per ?? ml

>

> To put it into a formula, you can:

>

> 600 mg . . . . 500 mg

> ----------- = ---------------

> 5 ml . . . . . .? ml

>

> When you cross multiply and divide, you get:

>

> 500 * 5 = 2500

> 2500 / 600 = 4.17 ml

>

> So rounding up to 4.2 ml is acceptable.

>

> For 2 x/day, it's 8.4 ml a day. For 10 days = 84 ml. The smallest

size

> that Augmentin ES comes in is a 125ml, so you'd have to make sure

and put a

> discard remainder after 10 days notice on the bottle somewhere and

the

> pharmacist will have to reinforce the information with whomever is

picking

> up the prescription.

>

> Della

>

> Cat Haven, Inc

> A No-Kill Cat Rescue (501c3)

> Houston, Tx

> www.cat-haven.org

>

> Dosage question?

>

> The perscription reads...'Augmentin ES 600mg ..give 500mg bid for

8 days.'

>

> How would you break this down for the patient? Please show how you

did it.

> The pharmacist came up with 4.2ml. But I would like to know how he

arrived

> at that answer. Thank you in advance

[Guest guest]

Actually, the 100ml size has been discontinued and replaced with the 125mg

bottle, because so many parents were coming back and complaining about the

100ml size not having a 10 day supply (at 5 ml BID).

And there is supposed to be a generic available sometime in the future (I

think near, as in the next 6 months).

Della

Cat Haven, Inc

A No-Kill Cat Rescue (501c3)

Houston, Tx

www.cat-haven.org

Re: Re: Dosage question?

Augmentin ES 600mg/5ml reconstitutable suspension has not been discontinued.

It's available in 50, 75, 100, 150 and 200 ml bottles. Did I miss something

here?

[Guest guest]

Sorry, the 100ml size has been discontinued and replaced with the 125ml

size.

Della

Cat Haven, Inc

A No-Kill Cat Rescue (501c3)

Houston, Tx

www.cat-haven.org

Re: Re: Dosage question?

Augmentin ES 600mg/5ml reconstitutable suspension has not been discontinued.

It's available in 50, 75, 100, 150 and 200 ml bottles. Did I miss something

here?

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

Great job on the Augmentin question!

I just wanted to add this:

" " Augmentin ES-600 , 600 mg/5 mL, does not contain the same amount of

clavulanic acid (as the potassium salt) as any of the other Augmentin

suspensions. Augmentin ES-600 contains 42.9 mg of clavulanic acid per

5 mL whereas Augmentin 200 mg/5 mL suspension contains 28.5 mg of

clavulanic acid per 5 mL and the 400 mg/5 mL suspension contains 57

mg of clavulanic acid per 5 mL. Therefore, the Augmentin 200 mg/5 mL

and 400 mg/5 mL suspensions should not be substituted for Augmentin

ES-600 , as they are not interchangeable. " "

from http://rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/augmentines_ids.htm

Each teaspoonful (5 mL) will contain 600 mg amoxicillin as the

trihydrate and 42.9 mg of clavulanic acid as the potassium salt.

And yet another tidbit: Administration: To minimize the potential

for gastrointestinal intolerance, Augmentin ES-600 should be taken at

the start of a meal. Absorption of clavulanate potassium may be

enhanced when Augmentin ES-600 is administered at the start of a

meal.

Stoire reconsituted suspensionin refrigerator and discard unused

suspension after 10 days.

Hope this helps someone!

Respectfully,

Jeanetta Mastron CPhT BS Chem

F/O

> > Hello,

> > I understand how to do that now that you have added that it is

> 600mg/5ml. Did you just know that that particular suspension is

> 600mg/5ml? I couldn't do that problem until I had the strength of

> the suspension.

> > CPhT

[Guest guest]

By the way that info was last updated on: " This Page Last Revised

12/31/03 " .

No mention of removal from market.

Respectfully,

Jeanetta

PS keep me posted on its availability....thanks

> Dear All,

>

> Great job on the Augmentin question!

>

> I just wanted to add this:

>

> " " Augmentin ES-600 , 600 mg/5 mL, does not contain the same amount

of

> clavulanic acid (as the potassium salt) as any of the other

Augmentin

> suspensions. Augmentin ES-600 contains 42.9 mg of clavulanic acid

per

> 5 mL whereas Augmentin 200 mg/5 mL suspension contains 28.5 mg of

> clavulanic acid per 5 mL and the 400 mg/5 mL suspension contains 57

> mg of clavulanic acid per 5 mL. Therefore, the Augmentin 200 mg/5

mL

> and 400 mg/5 mL suspensions should not be substituted for Augmentin

> ES-600 , as they are not interchangeable. " "

> from http://rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/augmentines_ids.htm

message was trunkated.

[Guest guest]

You are correct about cod liver oil containing vitamin A and the

importance of being aware of that if you want to try higher doages.

Below is a cut from an archive on that -and then information for

those that EFAs may not work for:

ProEFA is an Omega 3 (DHA and higher EPA) formula with a small

amount of Omega 6 (GLA) The Omega 3 in the ProEFA is from fish oil -

not from the liver of the fish -so no vitamin A. Only fish oil made

from the

liver of the fish contain vitamin A.

Children's DHA is cod liver oil which since it's from the liver of

the cod fish, it naturally contains Vitamin A. Cod liver oil only

contains Omega 3 (DHA and EPA) about that point:

" Most of our experience is with one, 1.0 gram capsule of ProEFA

(Complete Omega) that contains 144 mg EPA, 99 mg DHA and 40 mg of

GLA. We know that this combination appeared to work well. There

were some other supplements used but we could not conclude anything

about them. I can only say that both EPA and DHA are important and

GLA appears to have an additional positive effect on speech.

ALA, linoleic and oleic acids in " The Total Omega " contribute very

little to the EPA, DHA, and GLA effect.

I see at least 2 possibilities that you could use if you decide to

make the transition from short-chain omega-3s in plants (flax seed

oil containing alpha-linolenic acid or ALA, C18:2n-3) to the long-

chain mixture of EPA (C20:5n-3) and DHA (C22:6n-3). These are DHA

Jr. (30 mg DHA and 20 mg EPA in a serving unit) and Coromega (350 mg

EPA and 230 mg DHA). Both of these have been anecdotally successful

in the past.

Coromega can be divided in two and taken one half in the morning the

other in the evening. If you choose this mode you will provide your

son with the equivalent EPA+DHA of 2 ProEFA capsules per day without

the GLA.

Flax seed oil or freshly ground flax seeds are an excellent source

of the essential omega-3 alpha-linolenic acid (ALA or LNA) which is

the quintessential parent member of the omega-3 family of essential

fatty acids (EFAs). The body transforms it into EPA and the EPA

into DHA. This transformation is very inefficient (the yield is

about 10%) and is further inhibited by over consumption of omega-6

fatty acids from most vegetable oils or certain disease states.

Therefore, it is advisable to independently consume also ready made

EPA and DHA from good quality fish of from high quality fish oil

supplements. Some recommended intakes are listed on the

Introductory lecture on EFAs that I gave at the First Conference on

Therapy of Verbal Apraxia, July 23-24, 2001, town, NJ. (

http://www.cherab.org/news/scientific.html

The CHERAB Foundation's positive research results on potential

improvement in speech following EFA supplementation are based

on the use of ProEFA (Complete Omega) and that contains also

another essential fatty acid, GLA which is an omega-6 fatty acid.

The latter appears to be beneficial to children with apraxia. It is

not present in flax seed/flaxseed oil.

None of these materials present with any known side effects or

known toxicity in an otherwise healthy person. Nevertheless, we

advise every user of supplements to use them under medical

supervision. We don't know your child and we cannot provide you

with medical advice.

Sincerely,

Katz, Ph.D. "

About the fact that one formula isn't working so trying another.

First of all if I was going to try anything it would be a high EPA

over a high DHA based on this group. But about trying DHA because

the ProEFA didn't work.

Even on the " wrong " formula for your child you'll typically see some

signs -something. Perhaps not speech -but subtle prespeech changes

you'll see in the early stages of any " right " formula such as the

following list from an old archive:

1. Increase in babbling or attempts at sounds.

2. Increase in imitation.

3. Increase in mouth movements

Changes also can be looked for in (what you see as positive or

negative)

sleep

attention

appetite

focus

behavior

stools

As optimistic as I typically am, I don't want to give anyone false

hope when it appears that the EFAs are not working. In just about

all cases if the parents don't see any change on the ProEFA in a few

months, no other formula will work either. And outside of those

that only try one capsule a day and they child needs at least 2 -

increasing to mega dosages has not made a difference either. Those

children that do amazing on high dosages did amazing on in most

cases even just one capsule to start.

Not saying I too wouldn't try all the other formulas...but just know

there are others ways to overcome apraxia outside of EFAs if your

child is one of the few they don't " work " for. (like Miche's child)

Below I have a message sent in 2004 to Carolyn " Dr. Mom 7310 " who is

still a member here who also has a child that didn't respond to

ProEFA. Carolyn are you there to update us? Anything?

There are a few suggestions that may help such as reduce trans fats

and saturated fats, and yes based on the handful of reports here in

the archives -reduce fiber too. (you don't have to eliminate it

from foods -but don't go overboard and definitely no " high fiber "

type medications)

Here's an archive on more:

Re: ProEFA not working? Atypical result? Help!

Hi Caroline!

There are times a few parents report no 'dramatic' surge on one

capsule of ProEFA, but a dramatic surge on two capsules. In those

cases there are subtle signs it may be working even at one capsule.

Any change in speech or behavior, even those some may view as " bad "

(for example " he's so hyper now " ) could be a sign that the oils may

be starting to work. I was taught that the brain is like a sponge

and it takes time for the stores of EFAs to build up, and to deplete

fully. I was also taught that it's possible to notice changes right

away because " within hours " a process starts -actually for that one

which is more complex but very interesting, question Xue Ming MD

PhD. Dr. Ming is a pediatric neurologist who runs the Autism Center

for UMDNJ, and is knowledgeable about other multifaceted

communication impairments like apraxia as well. Caroline Il Grande

Esq. from our group (and who's story is in The Late Talker) has

highly recommended Dr. Ming as a doctor for her daughter if you

check the archives (or with Caroline)

http://njms.umdnj.edu/neuroscience/faculty_bio/old%20bios/Xueming.htm

I know Dr. Stordy http://www.drstordy.com who I so respect and who

created Efalex says the EFAs can take up to three months to work.

In this group we have found if it doesn't work in around three

weeks, on the right formula, it probably is not the answer even

though there are cases reported it takes up to 5 weeks. If you have

seen no changes at all, I would suspect that no dosage of the

formula you are using will create the surge typically reported in a

day to three weeks. Most likely this would mean as well that no

other formula will be the answer either. In most cases there are

changes on even the wrong formulas -just not dramatic ones.

This does not mean at all that your dreams for your daughter will

not come true. All children with impairments of speech and/or

language require appropriate therapies. If your child is apraxic,

she will more likely respond quickest to intensive multisensory

therapies including touch cue, oral motor, and Kaufman. A

multisensory technique for teaching is also highly recommended!

http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/reading/mssl_methods.html (great

link to print out and save from LD Online! Speaking of LD, Dr.

Silver and multisensory techniques like those written in The Out of

Sync

child as well as The Late Talker -may not want to miss this

http://www.cherab.org/news/ldaconference2003.html I know I'll be

flying in for it and hope to see some of you there!)

Caroline there is no doubt when the surge is from the EFAs vs. just

therapy -you'll know it. If you try the two capsules and still see

nothing, remember that there are those who grew up with apraxia -

like special ed teacher 24 year old Dolan from Florida, who

was never on fish oils and has learned to overcome apraxia in time.

In these cases the apraxia is still quite apparent to others

throughout much of the elementary and into middle school years as

reported by not just , but another success story without EFAs -

's son Khalid. So again -no reason why your dreams will not

come true for your daughter as well-just give it more time!

I suspect those children that don't respond to EFAs are those who

have their

impairments of speech for a different reason than most. (there has

been a

dramatic surge in speech disorders in the past 10 years

http://www.cherab.org/information/geiermd.html which may be

why 'most' respond

to EFAs, but not all)

Perhaps others have more to share on their experience.

PS about the posts -at times acts funny and many posts don't

show up after we approve them for hours or even a day or so! This

happens for some reason from time to time. Both of your posts did

eventually show up -and for those wondering about a post -give it a

day and sure you'll see it!.

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

I am now giving my sons Nordic natural 3-6-9 jr. I assume this is what

everyone means by EFA? I am reading that folks give 6 EFA's and 3 EPA's -

what are EPA's exactly, and can someone recommend a brand - would like to

try this combination. Thank you!

Albisa

[Guest guest]

,

Most of us use the adult version of Omega 3-6-9 or another called

Pro-EFA that is the same formula. I would be willing to bet that

the person whose post you're referring to meant the adult capsules.

I know that at first you may be hestitant to use something that

doesn't say for kids on the bottle, but really EFAs are just food -

oils like olive or canola. Many parents on this site have had

fabulous results increasing over a short time to high doses.

The reason most don't use the junior formula, is that it's more

expensive for the same thing (one adult is equal to two juniors).

And when someone says " EPA " they mean they give " Pro-EPA " or " EPA " ,

to make an even higher ratio of EPA to DHA (EPA and DHA are both

inthe 3-6-9).

Hope this helps!

Kerri

>

> Hi All,

>

>

>

> I am now giving my sons Nordic natural 3-6-9 jr. I assume this is

what

> everyone means by EFA? I am reading that folks give 6 EFA's and 3

EPA's -

> what are EPA's exactly, and can someone recommend a brand - would

like to

> try this combination. Thank you!

>

>

>

>

>

> Albisa

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Kerri. It's helped me, too. I've been giving my son the 3-6-9

jr's. also. Why is a higher ratio of EPA to DHA favorable?

Jeff wrote:

> ,

>

> Most of us use the adult version of Omega 3-6-9 or another called

> Pro-EFA that is the same formula. I would be willing to bet that

> the person whose post you're referring to meant the adult capsules.

> I know that at first you may be hestitant to use something that

> doesn't say for kids on the bottle, but really EFAs are just food -

> oils like olive or canola. Many parents on this site have had

> fabulous results increasing over a short time to high doses.

>

> The reason most don't use the junior formula, is that it's more

> expensive for the same thing (one adult is equal to two juniors).

> And when someone says " EPA " they mean they give " Pro-EPA " or " EPA " ,

> to make an even higher ratio of EPA to DHA (EPA and DHA are both

> inthe 3-6-9).

>

> Hope this helps!

>

> Kerri

>

>

> >

> > Hi All,

> >

> >

> >

> > I am now giving my sons Nordic natural 3-6-9 jr. I assume this is

> what

> > everyone means by EFA? I am reading that folks give 6 EFA's and 3

> EPA's -

> > what are EPA's exactly, and can someone recommend a brand - would

> like to

> > try this combination. Thank you!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Albisa

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >