*OT* I think my daughter's teacher SLAPPED her!! Help!

[Guest guest]

Sorry for posting off topic again, but I need some advice. My

daughter told me tonight that her teacher had smacked her in the

face. She says it happened awhile ago during a fire drill and she

didn't tell me because she thought she'd be in trouble. She says they

were in the hall for the drill and she was yelling to a kid across

the hall. Ok, she was NOT supposed to be doing this, of course. She

says the teacher grabbed her by both shoulders and smacked her face.

OK...my daughter is 5 yrs old. Just like all 5 yr olds, she sometimes

makes things up or stretches the truth. Just by talking to her,

though, I can tell when she is lying to me about something. I talked

to her for AN HOUR and her story did not change one single time. I

explained to her how serious this is and that if she DID make it up,

it was ok for her to tell me and she would not be in trouble. I

wanted to give her EVERY chance to let me know if she was not telling

the truth. She INSISTS she is not lying. After discussing this with

her for a long period of time, it is my true belief that she is NOT

lying. I DO believe that something happened. From the first time I

met this teacher, there was just something about her I did not like.

I could never really put my finger on it, but there was

just....something. You may remember that my daughter has had a very

hard time lately with her immense fear of rain and storms. It, at one

point, did interferr with school. She would become very scared at

school and I'm sure she was a handful. HOWEVER, she is seeing a

therapist for this, as well as the school social worker. It is my

belief that, as her teacher, this woman should be able to deal with

this. Surely my child is not the only one to ever have a problem that

affected them in school. She IS improving and even her teacher said

it's not as bad as it was. HOWEVER, when we went to our

parent/teacher conference last week, the teacher seemed VERY critical

of my daughter. I just chalked it up to my not really liking her and

didn't take it too personally. Now, though, I am quite concerned. I

am not sure how to go about addressing this. I called the principal

tonight but she was not home. I do not want to just go making

accusations yet. I would like to have the principal talk to the

school social worker and have HER talk to my daughter and see what

impression she gets. My daughter likes her very much and I know she'd

open up to her. All I know is that if this DID happen, it will take

all I have not to take care of it MYSELF in my own way. I know that

is wrong, but this is my child here!!!

UGH! Sorry, I had to vent and get that off my chest. I'm still not

sure how to handle this...

Lori

[Guest guest]

Lori, this is horrible, and my first response is to catch that teacher in

the parking lot for a serious 'beat down'! But, I don't want you to get

into trouble, so...

Go to school tomorrow and report this incident to the principal. Principal

should take serious action to discipline this teacher [up to and including

firing, if possible]. An apology is not enough. If the principal doesn't

believe you [teacher's word against your child's], escalate this immediately

to the school board and police for a formal investigation, if you have to.

Don't let time pass. If other 5 year olds witnessed this, their memories

will get fuzzy quick.

Also, talk to other parents to see if there are any other reports of similar

problems.

Last resort, if the school won't do anything, consider a lawyer.

They should also get another teacher for your daughter, even if she has to

be in the class with the next higher grade teacher.

HJ

----- Original Message -----

> Sorry for posting off topic again, but I need some advice. My

> daughter told me tonight that her teacher had smacked her in the

> face.

[Guest guest]

Lori,

I don't know what to say except I'm sorry and good luck talking to

them. Don't let them dismiss it. I think having the therapist talk

to Ashlyn is a good idea.

Knowing Ashlyn like I do I agree that if she was making it up her

story probably would have changed within an hour and she probably

would have gave in and changed what she was saying within that time.

Not saying that I don't believe her but has she seen any movies

lately that might have something like this in it or has your Mom been

talking badly about her teacher or anything? We both know how your

Mom can talk about things and how Ashlyn listens to her too much. ;o)

Keep me posted on what they say.

I also agree try to talk to other parents if you can.

You know it's not like you need another stressful thing in your life,

just let me know and I'll sick on that teacher for you between

you and she wouldn't have a chance.

--

Sue Huls

214/177.5/175(mini goal)/160

3/9/01

Independent Party Consultant

http://www.carefreeparties.com

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[Guest guest]

If all else fails, take your case to the PTA

I'm afraid I don't have any suggestions or solutions, but I have been on the board of the PTA for my son's school for the last 3 years (2 as treasurer and 1 as secretary), and I can tell you that if someone brought this type of an item up at one of our meetings, they would be told very quickly that is in NOT the place for it. We are there to support the school by raising funds for various projects, but we would NEVER get involved in something like this. Please don't approach the PTA. They are not the appropriate organization.

mary

------------------------

mary

(200)190 (size 16)/159 (size 8/10)/140 (size 6)

BMI =22.85

7/7/01

[Guest guest]

Lori,

Do talk to the principal about your concerns. Slapping a five-year-

old is not appropriate. However, being overtly critical of a five-

year-old is also NOT appropriate. A professional teacher would show

concern and want to work with you to resolve any problems that arose.

Blaming a five-year-old for being a child is the mark of an immature,

disturbed or just plain lousy teacher.

However, I strongly recommend that you be meticulously polite and

make no threats to go to the school board or get a lawyer. Once you

mention these things, all chances of resolving the issue without a

great deal of nastiness will most probably end. The school

establishments protect their own against parents - not fair, not

right, not professional, but the way it is. Talk about your concerns,

your feelings, and your desire to insure that your child has a

positive school experience. Talk to your daughter and decide ahead of

time what you want to happen, then be very polite and absolutely

insistent that you get what you want.

If the conversation with the principal yields no results, then go the

superintendent, and on to the school coard if necessary. Document

every thing you learn and every conversation you have. Follow up any

agreement (or disagreement) with a letter to the person you speak

with and a copy to the school board. Writing letters will let them

know you are serious, and usually helps get attention. If all else

fails, take your case to the PTA and to public school board meetings.

But, you must always be polite, reasonable and respectful, even when

you are treated badly. Most of all, you must be persistent. As in so

many other things, the squeeky wheel gets the grease.

, who's been done this road several times and on both sides

of the fence (parents are teachers).

[Guest guest]

Lori

I would definitely start by speaking with the principal and your daughter's

counselor....slapping a child is just wrong....I think the fact that your

daughter told you about it was good - especially since her story never

changed. If the teacher isn't disciplined, is there a chance that your

daughter can be transferred to another class? I'm glad that your daughter

is in therapy so that she has someone to talk to about this. When I was a

kid and had a bad teacher (story below), I had no one I could talk to about

it. Maybe if I had, she would have been fired sooner.

I remember that when I was in grade 1, my teacher spanked me for wetting

myself - I had asked her several times if I could go to the bathroom and

she said no. She finally got tired of my asking and told me to stand by

her desk, that she would *deal* with me later. Of course, by that point, I

had to go so badly and was so scared, that it just happened. When she came

back to her desk and saw what had happened, she turned me over her knee and

spanked me in front of the whole class, then made me sit the rest of the

afternoon in wet clothes. This woman definitely had something against me -

she treated me rotten the entire year. I never told my mom about the

spanking, just that I had an accident - I was afraid that maybe I really

was in the wrong and would get punished by mom as well. It wasn't until I

was in high school and we heard that she had been fired for threatening a

student that I finally told my mom about the whole incident. Apparently,

this teacher would usually pick on one child every year and thankfully,

someone finally had the guts to speak up. While she was still at my

school, kids *wanted* to flunk kindergarten just so they wouldn't have to

have her as a teacher.

To this day, I am so thankful that my grade 2 teacher was such a

sweetheart! She took me under her wing (I was obviously traumatized by

that point) and brought me back out of my shell. She taught me the joy of

reading and writing. She brought sunshine in to the lives of all us

children. Looking back, I think she tried extra hard to make our lives in

grade 2 a joyful, memorable event to try and make up for the abuse we took

by the grade 1 teacher. None of the teachers in that school had a good

thing to say about the grade 1 teacher. She was just mean and spiteful.

It's amazing how a teacher can influence us for good or bad. I am thankful

that she was the only bad teacher I had in my entire grade school career -

the rest were great people and I remember them all with fondness.

Lori, I sincerely hope that your daughter has a much nicer, better teacher

next year (if not sooner). Know that we are all standing behind you on

this issue - heck, if you're looking for a lynch mob, I'm sure you'll have

several volunteers just from this group - I'll even supply the rope :-)

180/145/140/138

[Guest guest]

> Sorry for posting off topic again, but I need some advice.

> Lori

You have to support your daughter or she will feel like she did

something wrong. Talk to the principle and see what she says. I

would think that a teacher who will slap a child has done the same

thing before or will do the same thing again. There may be

complaints from other parents about this same teacher. ALWAYS trust

your gut instincts, especially when your instincts are telling you

another person is " off " and especially when the instincts are based

on protection our children. God gave us these instincts for a

reason. I wish you the best of luck in resolving this situation.

When there is a problem with our children, our whole lives are turned

upside down.

[Guest guest]

I absolutely agree about supporting your daughter. I had a second grade teacher who isolated me from my class and would pick on me in front of the whole class. i.e. call me a liar when I wouldn't give her the answers she wanted, called me messy (she would take my desk and dump the contents in front of all the other kids and make me clean it up) and other such things. It was so bad that I started crying on my first day of 5th grade when I heard that there was a teacher switch and I may have her again. Thankfully, I didn't... Well, my parents knew about it (she wrote lies, lies, lies on my report card!) and they didn't want to start trouble, so they never talked to anyone about it. I felt very hurt by the memory and it took until I was an adult to develop my confidence in myself again and forgive her and let go and let God.

~Joan

[Guest guest]

Oh Cristina, your story brought a lump to my throat. My DD is in

first grade now and such an angel, I just can't imagine anyone being

that mean to her. That would just break my heart. I'm so glad your

second grade teacher was so wonderful to you.

Beth in TX

wrote:

< >

[Guest guest]

Lori, I feel for you.

When I was in the third grade, I had something similar happen to me.

Actually though, I hadn't done anything to provoke the teacher; she was

just mad because I hadn't done my homework. (I am legally blind, and I

was having trouble reading books, so I just didn't do the assignment. I

hadn't gotten a lot of help in school at that point.) Anyway, I had to

stay in from recess and finish my work. When everyone was coming in from

recess, the teacher grabbed ahold of me and shook me so hard that my neck

and shoulder hurt. I was TERRIFIED as she yelled at me. I remembered my

mom telling me that if anything bad ever happened to me at school, I

should go to the office and call her, but I was too scared. When I got

home from school that day, I didn't even tell Mom. She actually got a

call from another parent who said, " Hey, my son told me what happened to

today, and I wanted to make sure she was OK. " Mom was of course

shocked because she didn't know anything had " happened " .

The next day, Mom went straight to the principal. There was an

investigation, but the teacher kept her job. All she did was apologize.

For the rest of that year, I was frightened of this teacher, but she must

have been threatened or something because she was SOOO sickenly sweet to

me.

I agree with HJ. You should deal with this ASAP! Just don't go overboard

and do something you might regret on the remote possibility that it didn't

happen the way your daughter explained. (I'm not calling her a liar;

please don't think that. I'm just suggesting that there is the tiniest

chance.)

Good luck, hon. I can only imagine how upset you are thinking someone's

hurt your baby. Let us know how things go. Best of luck to you!

--

in Indy

(262.5)253.5/219/150

3/26/01

[Guest guest]

Yes, I didn't mean to imply that Lori should escalate this immediately. I

was merely suggesting steps if the principal doesn't take it seriously and

at least do a thorough investigation and get her daughter out of harm's way

[with another teacher]. Even if nothing can be confirmed in the

investigation, that teacher will REALLY be out for her then, probably just

more subtle.

HJ

----- Original Message -----

>

> I agree with HJ. You should deal with this ASAP! Just don't go overboard

> and do something you might regret on the remote possibility that it didn't

> happen the way your daughter explained. (I'm not calling her a liar;

> please don't think that. I'm just suggesting that there is the tiniest

> chance.)

[Guest guest]

My son had a teacher who was prone to yelling at the kids & getting in their faces & snarling (caught her in the act one day by surprise). Well, of course many were quite scared of her. She was a tall, fierce looking woman to start with. I tried talking to her about her treatment of the children (explaining that kids really do listen better when you don't yell), & when my son started showing signs of being afraid of her ( & only her), she suggested psychological testing for him! Because he was afraid of her! Well of course he was afraid. I'd have had him tested if he wasn't...I was half intimidated by her myself, she had such a temper, but I told her she needed to be tested herself. I've homeschooled him for 3 years now. He's a perfectly normal child.

I just got tired of dealing with people who have no patience for children, & that's their job. If you have no patience, don't teach. If you're not compassionate, understanding, or tolerant, then don't sign yourself up as a public educator to teach young children (stick to high school or something Too many little ones are scarred by uncaring, or careless individuals. For all the really great ones out there, it seems there's just so many rotten ones too, & we mother's never know what our child has gotten before it's too late & the harm's been done.

Sorry to rant, it just burns me up to hear of little ones being treated unfairly or cruelly when they are too young to defend theirselves. I know many school teachers who are really wonderful, but we don't always get a choice for our children, & it seems it's the bad apples that spoil the whole barrel.

God bless!*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*I have no formula but faith, no gospel but God, no creed but Christ,and no love but the Lord. There can be no joy without Jesus. (Helen Steiner Rice)

[Guest guest]

I have to disagree. I think that nicely letting other parents know what is going on is a good thing, although I agree that one would certainly be told that they didn't want to hear it

I think that it is more appropriate to talk to the principal and school board first, and if you really want to tell other parents what is going on, to do it by word of mouth. To bring up an accusation like that at a public meeting is not a good idea, IMHO.

If something like that were to happen at my child's school, it wouldn't be that I wouldn't want to hear it. (I most certainly would!) But the venue is the issue. The PTA has no control over school staffing, and at least at our school, that is not the way to bring complaints about things that are going on at the school. Perhaps things work differently at other places.

mary

------------------------

mary

(200)190 (size 16)/159 (size 8/10)/140 (size 6)

BMI =22.85

7/7/01

[Guest guest]

> Please don't approach the PTA. They are not the appropriate

organization.

>

> mary

I have to disagree. I think that nicely letting other parents know

what is going on is a good thing, although I agree that one would

certainly be told that they didn't want to hear it. However, if there

are problems that are not being resolved, any avenue for letting

parents know and putting pressure on the administration has to be

considered.

[Guest guest]

Lori,

I've been considering this all morning because it is so disturbing.

And I've concluded that I think the police should be notified. I

don't think corporal punishment is legal at school anymore.

Beth in TX

[Guest guest]

, just one thing to say about your father... YOU GO!!! I am so

glad he took up for you and gave you such a good impression of him... and

his " role " as protector. I have no children (which of course makes ME the

authority on raising kids, right? LoL) so I can only imagine how I would

feel but hearing what your father did makes ME proud... and he's YOUR dad!

LoL

-Marlena

>From: " Hellerud " My father was so outraged I thought he was going to

>explode as he left for school that very evening to meet with the teacher

>and the principal. I think I would have been really effected by the whole

>thing expect for one thing. I knew my dad was going down there to kick

>butt, verbally of course, and he did. My mother who is very timid said that

>teacher looked like she was going to wet her pants by the time my dad

>finished with her. (He was not a timid person) He made it clear he would

>sue the school if it ever happened again, and they didn't doubt him one

>bit. Hearing how he defended me made me so proud. I knew I had someone who

>would protect me

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[Guest guest]

Beth,

I think it vaaries according to district or state... but it is legal in some

places in Texas that I know of.

--- etobola27@... wrote:

> Lori,

>

> I've been considering this all morning because it is so disturbing.

> And I've concluded that I think the police should be notified. I

> don't think corporal punishment is legal at school anymore.

>

> Beth in TX

>

>

>

>

=====

Kathy

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

That is unbelievable to me.

Beth in TX

Kathy wrote:

<>

[Guest guest]

Wow, I'm surprised to hear that. I really thought striking a child for ANY

reason was absitively (like that? ) illegal in every school in this

country. I really did think that. I'm totally astounded that it's not.

-Marlena

>

>Beth,

>I think it vaaries according to district or state... but it is legal in

>some places in Texas that I know of.

>--- etobola27@... wrote:

> > And I've concluded that I think the police should be notified. I

> > don't think corporal punishment is legal at school anymore.

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[Guest guest]

I second Marlena on this...Dad to the rescue....and just to quote the movie

Grease " if a girl can't depend on her daddy, who can she depend on? "

180/145/140/138

[Guest guest]

I agree with what the first person who responded said (sorry, can't

remember who it was!) and I would say DO NOT let this slide.

If nothing else, it shows your daughter that you are on her side, no

matter what ... that will take you a long way as she grows (especially

in the terrible teens).

I grew up in a family of 3 girls and my mom once raised a stink over

the way a teacher spoke to my older sister and word spread. I once

overheard one teacher say to another teacher in my highschool. " Don't

mess with a Trott (my last name) girl... you'll regret it! " - and

that was nearly 7 years after my mom went in there! ... I felt so good

that (no matter what) my mom had my back. I saw the way teachers

treated other kids in my classes and was appalled! I once asked a

girl in my class (after our teacher hit her over the head with a book)

why she put up with it, and she said if she told her parents, they

would automatically believe the teacher.

My 2 cents...

Good luck with your decision and let us know how it turns out.

Lorraine

[Guest guest]

That describes my parents to a T :-(

-Marlena

>From: Coffee1231@...

>she said if she told her parents, they would automatically believe the

> >teacher.

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[Guest guest]

I was so mad about finding out corporal punishment is legal in Texas

that I sent that article to all my friends. Here is the response

from one that worked in HISD for years.

Beth in TX

Beth, Each school district in Texas is supposed to

inform the parents of their policy. For instance,

HISD has a statement at the bottom of their enrollment

cards that allows a parent state whether they will

allow corporal punishment or not. At the beginning of

this year, it was announced that HISD would now longer

allow corporal punishment in any school. If your

friend has already checked with the school, she may

also want to check on the district policy. It could

be that a school would cover for a teacher!

By the way, did you know that making students stand or

sit outside in an unshaded area is considered corporal

punishment? My mom's school used to have a teacher

that would make her " bad " students take 2-3 heavy

books outside during recess. She would make them hold

them above their heads for 10 minutes as

punishment.... whoops!

[Guest guest]

Do you know the parents of thekids in her class? maybe you could innocently ask them if their kid mentioned

anything unusual that happened last week , like the fire drill

Nan (Alias Ms. Magoo)Please Support Macular Degeneration And Other Vision Loss Researchhttp://members.aol.com/danlrob/MDpeople/www.puppymillrescue.com

[Guest guest]

In some counties in TN corporal punishment is allowed. My DSIL allowed the school to spank my grandson. I would, never ever have given permission for that.

in TN

Re: *OT* I think my daughter's teacher SLAPPED her!! Help!

That is unbelievable to me. Beth in TXKathy wrote:<<I think it vaaries according to district or state... but it is legal in some places in Texas that I know of.>>