Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 In a message dated 9/11/2006 9:57:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, angie.mucci@... writes: I hope this was helpful. More than helpful, it was great! Thanks! Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 In a message dated 9/11/2006 10:27:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, chester2001@... writes: guess I really have learned a lot in 6 months! Trish, and it feels like a lifetime ago, doesn't it? (grin) Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 ugh - I hate to hear of Audi's using percentage of loss if someone says hey your child has a 30% loss. Please smile nicely at them and say - that means nothing to me. Please break it down in frequencies for me. The percentage of loss - if you want to know goes like this, you test at 500, 1000, and 1500 frequencies. you then take these dB readings once you have found the person's thresholds and you average them. Thus if you have a 20% loss it doesn't tell me much if you have normal hearing in 2 frequencies but a moderate lost in another frequency. Also - ask them what they mean by normal, mild, moderate and severe - some Audis mean different things. some only classify profound at 120dB+ The best thing to do is to have your Audi sit down with the audio gram and explain it all to you. The frequencies you need to be interested in are the ones I listed above 500, 1000, and 1500 - these are the vowel and consonant sounds of speech. I would hope that the audi is getting aided and unaided results. Your hearing threshold can be deceiving this is the point at which you can just detect the presence of sound - you don't have to be able to comprehend what the sound is - you just have to know you heard something. Your speech reception threshold is also deceiving - if you are using bi syllabic spondee words (words with 2 syllables with the same emphasis on each syllable) hotdog, baseball, railroad. You only have to hear 70% of the word to understand it and repeat it back. Jane Madell has a fabulous Audiological exam she does where she does those words in noise - because lets face it that is how most of our kids hear. I hope this was helpful. Best, Angie in KS Allie 4 yrs bilateral N24... soon to be freedoms 12mo, 30 mo > > Hi - percentage loss isn't generally used any longer. what's a > 20% loss - of what? So generally it's phrased in terms of decibels. > > Threshold refers to the average of mid-scores on a person's audiogram. > You'll often see it in the audiologist's report as SRT (speech > recognition threshold). So while my Tom's audiogram is more or less all > over the board, his SRTs are 75 (db); Sam's are 95 db. That's probably > a more accurate reporting of hearing loss since the SRT takes the > average of the frequencies that normal speech clusters around. The SRTs > generally are done without any amplification. > > I find that being told that your child has a mild/moderate loss doesn't > say a whole lot since that does seem to vary by audiologist. We were > told that Tom's loss was mild/moderate - at 75 db SRTs I'd really have > called that severe (Sam's was easy - he's profound). > > does that help? > > Barbara > > > Ken and Kramer wrote: > > Here's another question from someone fairly new to this stuff. Some > > people report their child's hearing " loss " , others report a hearing > > " threshold " , and yet others report a " percentage " loss. I suppose you > > could also report the amount your child is amplified (perhaps that is > > the same as the hearing " loss " ?) which might depend on your > > audiologist's preferences for a target threshold hearing level. I > > have some idea what these things mean, but definitions would be > > helpful. Percentage seems particularly tricky to me since the hearing > > loss usually varies with freqency. If you have definitions, or can > > point me to them, it would be appreciated. > > > > At this point I know my daughter's thresholds (mostly 40-50 dB across > > freqencies) and also her amplification (mostly 20-30 dB across > > freqencies). I've never been told a percentage. > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > dd Madeline (20 mo, bilateral mild/moderate SNHL) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post > is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to > copyright restrictions. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 I just wanted to say that it might not be the doctor's or audiologist's fault about the percentage thing. When Bobby was diagnosed with a hearing loss just last year, and they came at me with so much information all at once, one of the things they said to me is that this speech descrimination was 80%. Now I didn't understand what that meant, and since the school did such a great job confusing me even more by saying that he had a unilateral loss (he didn't),. I took that 80% to mean that he had an 80% loss in his R ear...because that was his " bad " ear and I could understand that he couln't hear speech in that ear. So you put the two together with a very overwhelmed parent, and I came up with Bobby having an 80% hearing loss in his R ear and his L ear was fine. What he really has is a mod/severe loss in his R ear and when aided, he has 80% speech descrim. His left ear is far from normal, with a borderline loss (20-30db) until he gets to 3000hz, then it drops off sharply. So they say that one is a high frequency loss. But I can't tell you the times I called schools of the deaf and all kinds of places who really know hearing loss, and told them that my son had a 89% loss in his R ear and his left ear could hear perfectly fine. It was obvious that I needed education and lots of it. It wasn't until someone at Soundbridge finally saw an audiogram that she told me he certainly did not have a unilateral loss and he would benefit from another aid in that ear. Gosh, looking back at what I didn't know then...guess I really have learned a lot in 6 months! Trish Visit Trish and Bobby's Marathon website at http://www.firstgiving.com/bobbymarathon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 Some of the posts today bring back a lot of memories when my kids were little and just being diagnosed - and how i grappled around more or less in the dark by myself for answers. It sure makes me appreciate everyone here! Barbara JillcWood@... wrote: > > In a message dated 9/11/2006 10:27:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > chester2001@... writes: > > guess I really have learned a lot in 6 months! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 I think that's very true, Trish. I know when Tom was diagnosed with his hearing loss, then Sam was diagnosed 6 months later, I was just reeling from the news. All I could remember our (then) audiologist saying was " I have bad news " and that's all I heard. About six months after Sam's diagnosis, we were hiking with Sam's SLP and her family. Sam was chattering away and Klaran (our SLP) looked so pleased and said " Listen to him talk - and he's profoundly deaf! " . And I'm thinking " WHOA - profoundly deaf?! " So even though someone along the way I'm sure explained that, my heart hadn't caught up with my head? I think there definitely are layers of information we as parents can digest for sure! Trish Whitehouse wrote: > I just wanted to say that it might not be the doctor's or audiologist's fault about the percentage thing. When Bobby was diagnosed with a hearing loss just last year, and they came at me with so much information all at once, one of the things they said to me is that this speech descrimination was 80%. Now I didn't understand what that meant, and since the school did such a great job confusing me even more by saying that he had a unilateral loss (he didn't),. I took that 80% to mean that he had an 80% loss in his R ear...because that was his " bad " ear and I could understand that he couln't hear speech in that ear. So you put the two together with a very overwhelmed parent, and I came up with Bobby having an 80% hearing loss in his R ear and his L ear was fine. What he really has is a mod/severe loss in his R ear and when aided, he has 80% speech descrim. His left ear is far from normal, with a borderline loss (20-30db) until he gets to 3000hz, then it drops off sharply. ! > So they say that one is a high frequency loss. But I can't tell you the times I called schools of the deaf and all kinds of places who really know hearing loss, and told them that my son had a 89% loss in his R ear and his left ear could hear perfectly fine. It was obvious that I needed education and lots of it. It wasn't until someone at Soundbridge finally saw an audiogram that she told me he certainly did not have a unilateral loss and he would benefit from another aid in that ear. > > Gosh, looking back at what I didn't know then...guess I really have learned a lot in 6 months! > > Trish > Visit Trish and Bobby's Marathon website at > http://www.firstgiving.com/bobbymarathon > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 Hi all-- My name is , and I have a 4 year old son who was DX 12/28/05 with mod-sev sens-neur bilateral loss. He got his Oticon HAs on 2/28 and started at a special ed prek on 3/1. He had been going all day to private school pre-k...so we let him continue that int he morning, and did the special ed one int he afternoon to make the transition easier. He has done so well so far. He was very oral to begin with, which is why the dx was so late...he failed 2 hearing screens at birth...then at 3 months they tried a hearing test, but I know it wasn't accurate...he started screaming so they said he must hear fine...(great!) he started talking late...but it made sense because he started talking just after he was around other kids in a small daycare just before turning 3. About 5 speech therapists, an ENT, and his audi think thats when he learned to read lips...ah ha... so at 4 y 1 month chrono age, he was expressive lang was 3y4m...recpt was about 2y11m....the ENT started the appt with " ok, so we have someone who might have a mild loss... " then he opened the folder and saw his audi's tests....he looked at them twice and tested him again...he was like whoa...ok...so mod-sev it is... His vocabulary has grown tremendously! We jsut got his FM system...HE LOVES IT!!! he calls it his talking box...and says he can lsiten to the teachers now...and he's been soo responsible with it, even in the first week! He taught my father how to put the boots on and how you plug it to charge it...it's so cute. He's a really big kid (not 5 till december and 46 1/2 " so far...) so I was worried about him being with other special needs kids...ie: playing too rough, etc. He has a lot of autistic kids in his class and he actually tones right down and helps them out a lot...the other parents love him because he is very accomidating to their kids...and his speech is better than theirs which helps them out.... He has a Dec 12 bday...so he won't go to kindergarten till next year..I really want to get him more up to speed on begining reading skills.... I think the listen-up talk-it-up program might help a bit with that... is on his second set of blue-white swirled ear molds and loves them...his HAs are blue and so are his eyes, it works well.. Yesterday we were watching TV downstairs--something about sea turtles and I asked him to go turn off the music upstairs because i couldn't hear the tv...well i could it was just very noisy in the house...and he says " maybe you need hearing aids, because I can hear the tv! they have pink ones for girls " (smarty pants) this is so interesting! I'm gald I joined... ________________________________ From: Listen-Up [mailto:Listen-Up ] On Behalf Of Trish Whitehouse Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 10:15 AM To: Listen-Up Subject: terminology question I just wanted to say that it might not be the doctor's or audiologist's fault about the percentage thing. When Bobby was diagnosed with a hearing loss just last year, and they came at me with so much information all at once, one of the things they said to me is that this speech descrimination was 80%. Now I didn't understand what that meant, and since the school did such a great job confusing me even more by saying that he had a unilateral loss (he didn't),. I took that 80% to mean that he had an 80% loss in his R ear...because that was his " bad " ear and I could understand that he couln't hear speech in that ear. So you put the two together with a very overwhelmed parent, and I came up with Bobby having an 80% hearing loss in his R ear and his L ear was fine. What he really has is a mod/severe loss in his R ear and when aided, he has 80% speech descrim. His left ear is far from normal, with a borderline loss (20-30db) until he gets to 3000h! z, then it drops off sharply. So they say that one is a high frequency loss. But I can't tell you the times I called schools of the deaf and all kinds of places who really know hearing loss, and told them that my son had a 89% loss in his R ear and his left ear could hear perfectly fine. It was obvious that I needed education and lots of it. It wasn't until someone at Soundbridge finally saw an audiogram that she told me he certainly did not have a unilateral loss and he would benefit from another aid in that ear. Gosh, looking back at what I didn't know then...guess I really have learned a lot in 6 months! Trish Visit Trish and Bobby's Marathon website at http://www.firstgiving.com/bobbymarathon http://www.firstgiving.com/bobbymarathon> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 At this point I know my daughter's thresholds (mostly 40-50 dB across freqencies) and also her amplification (mostly 20-30 dB across freqencies). I've never been told a percentage. I have always been told that hearing loss, expressed in DB, increases exponentially-like an earthquake, and thus cannot be converted to %. Joan Starn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 Ok, so this is what I don't understand / can't comprehend / (maybe can't accept??). 's loss sounds similar to Ian's - he is fairly flat around 50/55db on the right and 55/60 dB on the left. His unaided speech testing in each ear is about 45dB (and on the right ear he was discriminating boat/car/airplane at 45). (It is possible that his hearing is slightly better than this, since he is so new at booth testing, but he pretty solidly knew what he was doing during the conditioned play, so we think we are pretty close.) So when I lay his audiogram on a speech banana, I would say that unaided he basically shouldn't be able to hear most speech. So how come he can hear (or at least understand) us without his hearing aids in? Could he really be that good at just faking his way through things (he is not even 3 yrs old yet)? I'm sure he lipreads some, but he really seems to get more than I would expect. And how could he have learned to speak as much as he did (he only got aided in late June)? He knows hundreds of words, although articulation is pretty bad. These are the things that my husband and I don't get! Sherry Mom to (almost 3yr, moderate SNHL) and Drew (8 mo and trying to crawl up stairs) Re: Terminology question Ian's audiogram is pretty much straight across around the 50 db mark. I would not call that a 50% loss. Without his aids, Ian has pretty much lost all conversational speech. To call that a 50% loss (which is close since 50 dbs is about halfway down) would be misleading at best, and quite wrong, in my opinion. Best -- Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 Okay, I could be way off, but this is how I understand it. The speech banana represents the sounds being produced at about 3 ft from the listener. Now, I think with little ones that we have them in our laps and on our hips a lot of the time, or we are on the floor with them. So, we get closer than 3 ft, thus decreasing the affect of the hearing loss. So your son clearly was getting the input somehow. Also, do not underestimate the ability of even young children to develope coping skills. I think they do learn to use contextual clues as well as speech read. Hope that helps. > > Ok, so this is what I don't understand / can't comprehend / (maybe can't > accept??). 's loss sounds similar to Ian's - he is fairly flat around > 50/55db on the right and 55/60 dB on the left. His unaided speech testing > in each ear is about 45dB (and on the right ear he was discriminating > boat/car/airplane at 45). (It is possible that his hearing is slightly > better than this, since he is so new at booth testing, but he pretty solidly > knew what he was doing during the conditioned play, so we think we are > pretty close.) > > So when I lay his audiogram on a speech banana, I would say that unaided he > basically shouldn't be able to hear most speech. So how come he can hear > (or at least understand) us without his hearing aids in? Could he really be > that good at just faking his way through things (he is not even 3 yrs old > yet)? I'm sure he lipreads some, but he really seems to get more than I > would expect. And how could he have learned to speak as much as he did (he > only got aided in late June)? He knows hundreds of words, although > articulation is pretty bad. These are the things that my husband and I > don't get! > > Sherry > Mom to (almost 3yr, moderate SNHL) and Drew (8 mo and trying to crawl > up stairs) > > Re: Terminology question > > > Ian's audiogram is pretty much straight across around the 50 db mark. I > would not call that a 50% loss. Without his aids, Ian has pretty much lost > all conversational speech. To call that a 50% loss (which is close since 50 > dbs is about halfway down) would be misleading at best, and quite wrong, in > my opinion. > > > Best -- Jill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 There's also the fact that since we *know* our kids can't hear well, we probably talk louder than we would to a person with normal hearing, even without always meaning to. Our son (almost 12yo) wears his hearing aids from the time he wakes until he goes to bed, except for bath time. He can hear normal speech levels well with his hearings aids, as long as the batteries are good. (If he can't hear us well, it's time to change the batteries.) If I have to talk to him after he's gone to bed, or when I wake him up in the morning, it's instinctive for me to talk much more loudly than I would otherwise. Same goes for when he has to do without one hearing aid. He's only wearing one aid now because he just got new ear molds, and one of them is chafing him too much. We have an appointment to have it re-cast, but in the meantime, I have to either make sure the aided ear is pointing at me, or talk more loudly than I normally would. Kiminy --- traceyandynathen tracey@...> wrote: > Okay, I could be way off, but this is how I > understand it. The > speech banana represents the sounds being produced > at about 3 ft > from the listener. Now, I think with little ones > that we have them > in our laps and on our hips a lot of the time, or we > are on the > floor with them. So, we get closer than 3 ft, thus > decreasing the > affect of the hearing loss. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 Sherry, There are computer simulation programs and equipment that many audiologists have. They are used among other reasons, at IEP meetings or schools to show people what a certain loss is like. Maybe you could hear your son's loss through one of these at your audiologist's office. If your audi doesn't have one, this might spur the acquisition of one of these. Re: Terminology question Ian's audiogram is pretty much straight across around the 50 db mark. I would not call that a 50% loss. Without his aids, Ian has pretty much lost all conversational speech. To call that a 50% loss (which is close since 50 dbs is about halfway down) would be misleading at best, and quite wrong, in my opinion. Best -- Jill ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 Joan, You can translate any kind of hearing loss to a percentage. But, the beef here is, the percentage doesn't mean anything.. well it might - if you are an audiologist and can calculate the percentage in your head. This is how it breaks down : you have 3 frequencies that are normally used for this, lets just make up some odd threshold numbers.. 500hz -(vowel sounds) - 35dB 1000hz(vowel and consonant sounds) - 40dB 1500hz(consonant sounds) - 24dB You then get a percentage for this 33% So, this person has a 33% loss. you could go on to say this person has a mild/moderate hearing loss. Depending on what chart you use. There are some tests that weight the frequency levels - so they are a little more accurate. But in the big scheme of things saying anyone has a 33% loss means nada to me as a soon to be Audiologist even. Angie > > At this point I know my daughter's thresholds (mostly 40-50 dB across > freqencies) and also her amplification (mostly 20-30 dB across > freqencies). I've never been told a percentage. > > I have always been told that hearing loss, expressed in DB, increases > exponentially-like an earthquake, and thus cannot be converted to %. > > Joan Starn > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Sherry, This is one of the hardest parts of the whole concept of our kids being HOH. Tracey has it right, that speech banana is for people about 3 feet away and since we do tend to keep little ones closer, they tend to hear us better than their audiogram indicates. We also tend to talk to them like they're little kids, getting them to pay attention first and then talking -- like the cliche nursery school teacher. Repeating yourself to a 3-year-old is nothing original, you learn to say the same thing over and over again, phrasing it differently each time, and that's for a hearing kid. D/HOH kids benefit from that tendency But here is some of the confusion for you ...they are perceptive little devils. They react when we react -- that is part of what they are learning when they're little. How to interact with the world around them. So, while we are turning towards a noise, they may be noticing the shadow being cast by the person entering to the room as we turn. Now they've learned that new people coming in change the light in the doorway or cast a shadow in the room, or smell of dishwashing soap and the smell comes just before the person arrives. Visual clues being learned from the hearing parents without us even realizing that we're teaching them. Next bit of confusion, some kids, no matter what the loss, or what type of loss, are oral. They tend to talk more, understand speech more. No one knows why. When a friend of our son's parents found out his actual hearing loss (he was 4) they were beyond stunned. The boy had a severe loss, but was talking rather clearly. The speech issue he had is not related to his hearing, but to his tongue so no one ever suggested that he get a more complete hearing scan, not even the speech therapist. Everyone assumes Ian can hears us because he talks so clearly. Yet he sat there last night, reattaching some part of his headphones, aids out, but only 2 feet in front of my husband and Ian did NOT hear Larry's request that Ian pass him the laptop. He asked three times, then barked, thinking Ian was ignoring him, not realizing both aids were out. Simple proof, our Ian can't hear an awful lot without his aids. Speaks as clearly, if not more so that most people I know. He reads lips beautifully, reads shadows moving around to indicate people or things, and reads body language like a pro. But my boy can't really hear you when sitting next to you unless he knows to pay attention to you. Otherwise our voices are merely part of the background noise of the room. (Breaks my heart all over again if I think about it too much.) When he answered my husband, he held up an aid, made a polite " see?! " face and reminded us " Deaf Boy can't hear you without bionics. " So, part of this may be that up close, your son does hear something, enough to figure out what you're saying. Or he may be learning to lip read. Or he may faking it -- never underestimate these kids ability to cope or to fake it. They are really good at that! If I had just walked into the room and asked Ian to hand me the laptop, he'd have looked up (seeing me change the light in the doorway) and perhaps seen my last word " laptop " and then done his classic fake-it/coping " follow-up question " routine and asked something like " You want the laptop in there? " Causing me to restate my original question, and perhaps misleading me into thinking he'd heard me the first time. These kids are masters of coping and faking it because that gets them by. They don't even realize they're doing it. Hope this helps, although it's not a simple answer as to why he seems to hear you. Best -- Jill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 In a message dated 9/12/2006 8:23:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Barbara.T.Mellert@... writes: I've had several audiologists tell us that " neither of your boys sound like their audiograms look " which I think sort of says it all... Barbara We get that kind of comment about Ian all the time. When we were going back and forth to Montefiore, we'd never see the same audiologist (when an ENT or other specialist requested yet another test) and each time the person would tell me Ian's verbal skills were amazing. Not just the pronunciation, but the language structure. We have no idea when Ian's loss actually began, but I now see/remember hints from when he was only 2 or so. Like saying Huh? and then staring at us in silence, waiting for us to repeat ourselves, his eyes intent on our faces, knowing that if he remained silent and staring, adults will repeat themselves. At the time, we just thought he was stubborn. My best friend use to tease about Ian's intense watching of people, and my hubby and I would then speculate as to what profession he'd go into. I realize now that he always watched us intently when we spoke. And hindsight being 20/20, I'm pretty sure, it was all due to his hearing loss even then. Yet the kid spoke on-age-level, even above, enunciated well even at an early age. No clues that his hearing was an issue, and there was no infant screening back then. Yeah, we lost time, but he's doing great so there's no point in kicking myself now. Best -- Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Boy, is that ever true! Tom wasn't diagnosed until he was 3-1/4 years and was even retested to be sure because no one could understand why - with the hearing loss he has - he had such a wide vocabulary. Even now, Tom is an auditory learner - kind of a cruel joke, no? If he doesn't understand you, he'll put his ear to your mouth rather than trying to lipread. His speech has always been clear - clearer now even with his implant. My Sam is also auditory although he does rely on lip reading. Two stories about Sam - a couple of years ago we were watching the Red Sox play the Yankees. Varitek and A-rod got into a huge fight. Sam was watching intently and finally asked Hugh (DH) " Dad, did A-Rod just tell Varitek to fight me " !? We assured him that that's JUST what he said - lord! Now that Sam has his implant, it's been interesting. he's had a couple of situations where he's tried to read lips but wasn't in a situation where he could, then realized he could hear! I think they call those CI moments... I've had several audiologists tell us that " neither of your boys sound like their audiograms look " which I think sort of says it all... Barbara Jill wrote--- Next bit of confusion, some kids, no matter what the loss, or what type of loss, are oral. They tend to talk more, understand speech more. No one knows why. When a friend of our son's parents found out his actual hearing loss (he was 4) they were beyond stunned. The boy had a severe loss, but was talking rather clearly. The speech issue he had is not related to his hearing, but to his tongue so no one ever suggested that he get a more complete hearing scan, not even the speech therapist. Everyone assumes Ian can hears us because he talks so clearly. Yet he sat there last night, reattaching some part of his headphones, aids out, but only 2 feet in front of my husband and Ian did NOT hear Larry's request that Ian pass him the laptop. He asked three times, then barked, thinking Ian was ignoring him, not realizing both aids were out. -- **************** Barbara Mellert Manager, Social Science Computing Kiewit Computing Services Dartmouth College 13A Silsby Hall, HB 6121 Hanover NH 03755 Telephone: 603/646-2877 URL: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~ssc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Jill, your posts are always terrific but this one was more than eloquent! You also described our life with Maggie!! Who went undiagnosed until almost 4 with a mod-severe loss. When the audie was diagnosing her, she did a number of " extra " tests because she couldn't believe the level of loss compared to the level of language. Maggie was/is a strong willed kid who literally got carried for the first 3 1/2 years - she didn't like to get put down. So she kept herself in earshot. Yet her language skills were like swiss cheese - lots of holes - esp where you wouldn't expect them. Re: Terminology question > >Sherry, > >This is one of the hardest parts of the whole concept of our kids being HOH. >Tracey has it right, that speech banana is for people about 3 feet away and >since we do tend to keep little ones closer, they tend to hear us better than >their audiogram indicates. We also tend to talk to them like they're little >kids, getting them to pay attention first and then talking -- like the cliche >nursery school teacher. Repeating yourself to a 3-year-old is nothing >original, you learn to say the same thing over and over again, phrasing it >differently each time, and that's for a hearing kid. D/HOH kids benefit from that >tendency > >But here is some of the confusion for you ...they are perceptive little >devils. They react when we react -- that is part of what they are learning when >they're little. How to interact with the world around them. So, while we are >turning towards a noise, they may be noticing the shadow being cast by the >person entering to the room as we turn. Now they've learned that new people >coming in change the light in the doorway or cast a shadow in the room, or smell >of dishwashing soap and the smell comes just before the person arrives. >Visual clues being learned from the hearing parents without us even realizing that >we're teaching them. > >Next bit of confusion, some kids, no matter what the loss, or what type of >loss, are oral. They tend to talk more, understand speech more. No one knows >why. When a friend of our son's parents found out his actual hearing loss (he >was 4) they were beyond stunned. The boy had a severe loss, but was talking >rather clearly. The speech issue he had is not related to his hearing, but to >his tongue so no one ever suggested that he get a more complete hearing scan, >not even the speech therapist. > >Everyone assumes Ian can hears us because he talks so clearly. Yet he sat >there last night, reattaching some part of his headphones, aids out, but only 2 >feet in front of my husband and Ian did NOT hear Larry's request that Ian >pass him the laptop. He asked three times, then barked, thinking Ian was >ignoring him, not realizing both aids were out. > >Simple proof, our Ian can't hear an awful lot without his aids. Speaks as >clearly, if not more so that most people I know. He reads lips beautifully, >reads shadows moving around to indicate people or things, and reads body >language like a pro. But my boy can't really hear you when sitting next to you >unless he knows to pay attention to you. Otherwise our voices are merely part of >the background noise of the room. (Breaks my heart all over again if I think >about it too much.) > >When he answered my husband, he held up an aid, made a polite " see?! " face >and reminded us " Deaf Boy can't hear you without bionics. " > >So, part of this may be that up close, your son does hear something, enough >to figure out what you're saying. Or he may be learning to lip read. Or he may > faking it -- never underestimate these kids ability to cope or to fake it. >They are really good at that! > >If I had just walked into the room and asked Ian to hand me the laptop, he'd >have looked up (seeing me change the light in the doorway) and perhaps seen >my last word " laptop " and then done his classic fake-it/coping " follow-up >question " routine and asked something like " You want the laptop in there? " >Causing me to restate my original question, and perhaps misleading me into >thinking he'd heard me the first time. > >These kids are masters of coping and faking it because that gets them by. >They don't even realize they're doing it. > >Hope this helps, although it's not a simple answer as to why he seems to >hear you. > > >Best -- Jill. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Yea, my now 4 was only dx 9 months ago...and has awesome speech...there are times you wonder so how did he figure so much out? Maybe he can hear more.. then I try to wake him up in the morning...this morning, some how he ended up in our bed...about 6 " from my alarm clock, which I think is loud....and he didn't even flinch when it started going off...then I call to him....nothing...(not even a move and then pretend I'm still sleeping b/c I don't want to wake up)...then I put the music on on the computer at max volume...one of his fave songs...and it took until we got to another louder song for him to start wiggling... that's the only test i need:) with his eyes closed, he misses it all....open and aided...he doesn't miss a single thing:) crazy kid.. ________________________________ From: Listen-Up [mailto:Listen-Up ] On Behalf Of JillcWood@... Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:38 AM To: Listen-Up Subject: Re: Re: Terminology question In a message dated 9/12/2006 8:23:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Barbara.T.Mellert@... writes: I've had several audiologists tell us that " neither of your boys sound like their audiograms look " which I think sort of says it all... Barbara We get that kind of comment about Ian all the time. When we were going back and forth to Montefiore, we'd never see the same audiologist (when an ENT or other specialist requested yet another test) and each time the person would tell me Ian's verbal skills were amazing. Not just the pronunciation, but the language structure. We have no idea when Ian's loss actually began, but I now see/remember hints from when he was only 2 or so. Like saying Huh? and then staring at us in silence, waiting for us to repeat ourselves, his eyes intent on our faces, knowing that if he remained silent and staring, adults will repeat themselves. At the time, we just thought he was stubborn. My best friend use to tease about Ian's intense watching of people, and my hubby and I would then speculate as to what profession he'd go into. I realize now that he always watched us intently when we spoke. And hindsight being 20/20, I'm pretty sure, it was all due to his hearing loss even then. Yet the kid spoke on-age-level, even above, enunciated well even at an early age. No clues that his hearing was an issue, and there was no infant screening back then. Yeah, we lost time, but he's doing great so there's no point in kicking myself now. Best -- Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 We went for the first hearing screen a few days before his 4th bday...nothing...the audi thought he wasn't paying attention/wasn't comfortable with the surroundings...yada yada...we rescheduled for a few weeks later...she turned the sounds up much higher...and realized he wasn't hearing anything on the last test...she didn't think to go higher because of his speech!! At the end of that appt she says, well...he can't hear a lot....and he'll need hearing aids....and off to the ENT we went....who tested him agian b/c when he talked to , he didn't believe the initial results! ________________________________ From: Listen-Up [mailto:Listen-Up ] On Behalf Of pcknott@... Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:53 AM To: Listen-Up Subject: Re: Terminology question Jill, your posts are always terrific but this one was more than eloquent! You also described our life with Maggie!! Who went undiagnosed until almost 4 with a mod-severe loss. When the audie was diagnosing her, she did a number of " extra " tests because she couldn't believe the level of loss compared to the level of language. Maggie was/is a strong willed kid who literally got carried for the first 3 1/2 years - she didn't like to get put down. So she kept herself in earshot. Yet her language skills were like swiss cheese - lots of holes - esp where you wouldn't expect them. Re: Terminology question > >Sherry, > >This is one of the hardest parts of the whole concept of our kids being HOH. >Tracey has it right, that speech banana is for people about 3 feet away and >since we do tend to keep little ones closer, they tend to hear us better than >their audiogram indicates. We also tend to talk to them like they're little >kids, getting them to pay attention first and then talking -- like the cliche >nursery school teacher. Repeating yourself to a 3-year-old is nothing >original, you learn to say the same thing over and over again, phrasing it >differently each time, and that's for a hearing kid. D/HOH kids benefit from that >tendency > >But here is some of the confusion for you ...they are perceptive little >devils. They react when we react -- that is part of what they are learning when >they're little. How to interact with the world around them. So, while we are >turning towards a noise, they may be noticing the shadow being cast by the >person entering to the room as we turn. Now they've learned that new people >coming in change the light in the doorway or cast a shadow in the room, or smell >of dishwashing soap and the smell comes just before the person arrives. >Visual clues being learned from the hearing parents without us even realizing that >we're teaching them. > >Next bit of confusion, some kids, no matter what the loss, or what type of >loss, are oral. They tend to talk more, understand speech more. No one knows >why. When a friend of our son's parents found out his actual hearing loss (he >was 4) they were beyond stunned. The boy had a severe loss, but was talking >rather clearly. The speech issue he had is not related to his hearing, but to >his tongue so no one ever suggested that he get a more complete hearing scan, >not even the speech therapist. > >Everyone assumes Ian can hears us because he talks so clearly. Yet he sat >there last night, reattaching some part of his headphones, aids out, but only 2 >feet in front of my husband and Ian did NOT hear Larry's request that Ian >pass him the laptop. He asked three times, then barked, thinking Ian was >ignoring him, not realizing both aids were out. > >Simple proof, our Ian can't hear an awful lot without his aids. Speaks as >clearly, if not more so that most people I know. He reads lips beautifully, >reads shadows moving around to indicate people or things, and reads body >language like a pro. But my boy can't really hear you when sitting next to you >unless he knows to pay attention to you. Otherwise our voices are merely part of >the background noise of the room. (Breaks my heart all over again if I think >about it too much.) > >When he answered my husband, he held up an aid, made a polite " see?! " face >and reminded us " Deaf Boy can't hear you without bionics. " > >So, part of this may be that up close, your son does hear something, enough >to figure out what you're saying. Or he may be learning to lip read. Or he may > faking it -- never underestimate these kids ability to cope or to fake it. >They are really good at that! > >If I had just walked into the room and asked Ian to hand me the laptop, he'd >have looked up (seeing me change the light in the doorway) and perhaps seen >my last word " laptop " and then done his classic fake-it/coping " follow-up >question " routine and asked something like " You want the laptop in there? " >Causing me to restate my original question, and perhaps misleading me into >thinking he'd heard me the first time. > >These kids are masters of coping and faking it because that gets them by. >They don't even realize they're doing it. > >Hope this helps, although it's not a simple answer as to why he seems to >hear you. > > >Best -- Jill. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 That's what happened to us, - they couldn't believe Tom was getting by with the hearing loss he had given how well he spoke so he was retested before getting hearing aids. I've found this both a good and bad thing. Once Tom started school, because he speaks so well, it at times was hard to convince folks that he needed the services he did. Yes, he spoke well but he's still deaf/hoh and really needed all that iterative stuff. Barbara Naughton wrote: > We went for the first hearing screen a few days before his 4th > bday...nothing...the audi thought he wasn't paying attention/wasn't > comfortable with the surroundings...yada yada...we rescheduled for a few > weeks later...she turned the sounds up much higher...and realized he > wasn't hearing anything on the last test...she didn't think to go higher > because of his speech!! > At the end of that appt she says, well...he can't hear a lot....and > he'll need hearing aids....and off to the ENT we went....who tested him > agian b/c when he talked to , he didn't believe the initial results! > > > ________________________________ > > From: Listen-Up [mailto:Listen-Up ] On > Behalf Of pcknott@... > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:53 AM > To: Listen-Up > Subject: Re: Terminology question > > > > Jill, your posts are always terrific but this one was more than > eloquent! You also described our life with Maggie!! Who went undiagnosed > until almost 4 with a mod-severe loss. When the audie was diagnosing > her, she did a number of " extra " tests because she couldn't believe the > level of loss compared to the level of language. Maggie was/is a strong > willed kid who literally got carried for the first 3 1/2 years - she > didn't like to get put down. So she kept herself in earshot. Yet her > language skills were like swiss cheese - lots of holes - esp where you > wouldn't expect them. > > Re: Terminology question >> >> Sherry, >> >> This is one of the hardest parts of the whole concept of our kids being >> > HOH. > >> Tracey has it right, that speech banana is for people about 3 feet away >> > and > >> since we do tend to keep little ones closer, they tend to hear us >> > better than > >> their audiogram indicates. We also tend to talk to them like they're >> > little > >> kids, getting them to pay attention first and then talking -- like the >> > cliche > >> nursery school teacher. Repeating yourself to a 3-year-old is nothing >> original, you learn to say the same thing over and over again, phrasing >> > it > >> differently each time, and that's for a hearing kid. D/HOH kids benefit >> > from that > >> tendency >> >> But here is some of the confusion for you ...they are perceptive little >> > > >> devils. They react when we react -- that is part of what they are >> > learning when > >> they're little. How to interact with the world around them. So, while >> > we are > >> turning towards a noise, they may be noticing the shadow being cast by >> > the > >> person entering to the room as we turn. Now they've learned that new >> > people > >> coming in change the light in the doorway or cast a shadow in the room, >> > or smell > >> of dishwashing soap and the smell comes just before the person arrives. >> > > >> Visual clues being learned from the hearing parents without us even >> > realizing that > >> we're teaching them. >> >> Next bit of confusion, some kids, no matter what the loss, or what type >> > of > >> loss, are oral. They tend to talk more, understand speech more. No one >> > knows > >> why. When a friend of our son's parents found out his actual hearing >> > loss (he > >> was 4) they were beyond stunned. The boy had a severe loss, but was >> > talking > >> rather clearly. The speech issue he had is not related to his hearing, >> > but to > >> his tongue so no one ever suggested that he get a more complete hearing >> > scan, > >> not even the speech therapist. >> >> Everyone assumes Ian can hears us because he talks so clearly. Yet he >> > sat > >> there last night, reattaching some part of his headphones, aids out, >> > but only 2 > >> feet in front of my husband and Ian did NOT hear Larry's request that >> > Ian > >> pass him the laptop. He asked three times, then barked, thinking Ian >> > was > >> ignoring him, not realizing both aids were out. >> >> Simple proof, our Ian can't hear an awful lot without his aids. Speaks >> > as > >> clearly, if not more so that most people I know. He reads lips >> > beautifully, > >> reads shadows moving around to indicate people or things, and reads >> > body > >> language like a pro. But my boy can't really hear you when sitting next >> > to you > >> unless he knows to pay attention to you. Otherwise our voices are >> > merely part of > >> the background noise of the room. (Breaks my heart all over again if I >> > think > >> about it too much.) >> >> When he answered my husband, he held up an aid, made a polite " see?! " >> > face > >> and reminded us " Deaf Boy can't hear you without bionics. " >> >> So, part of this may be that up close, your son does hear something, >> > enough > >> to figure out what you're saying. Or he may be learning to lip read. Or >> > he may > >> faking it -- never underestimate these kids ability to cope or to fake >> > it. > >> They are really good at that! >> >> If I had just walked into the room and asked Ian to hand me the laptop, >> > he'd > >> have looked up (seeing me change the light in the doorway) and perhaps >> > seen > >> my last word " laptop " and then done his classic fake-it/coping >> > " follow-up > >> question " routine and asked something like " You want the laptop in >> > there? " > >> Causing me to restate my original question, and perhaps misleading me >> > into > >> thinking he'd heard me the first time. >> >> These kids are masters of coping and faking it because that gets them >> > by. > >> They don't even realize they're doing it. >> >> Hope this helps, although it's not a simple answer as to why he seems >> > to > >> hear you. >> >> >> Best -- Jill. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 I did try the simulator that someone posted here a month or two back - and I just about lost it because when I programmed in his latest audiogram I couldn't hear anything. Of course, I thought - I must not have this setup correctly, it isn't working. But I switched it back to normal hearing and the sound came blasting out of my speakers. I had to stop at that point cause I was getting too upset. So I need to go back and try again one day when I feel more ready to hear the results (no pun intended). But we are going to his audi today, so I'll ask if she has a simulator too. Thanks for the suggestion. Sherry Re: Terminology question Ian's audiogram is pretty much straight across around the 50 db mark. I would not call that a 50% loss. Without his aids, Ian has pretty much lost all conversational speech. To call that a 50% loss (which is close since 50 dbs is about halfway down) would be misleading at best, and quite wrong, in my opinion. Best -- Jill ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 is currently at a special ed prek in an integrated class...actually his latest gf (there's one at school and one closer to home) is one of the " normal " kids...i think thats neat...he has speech 4 x /week...2x ind, 2 x group... and now an fm system...that they approved but took FOREVER to come in... How was Tom in the reading dept? tries very hard, and thinks he's reading...there are just certain letters he doesn't get perfect every time (B, D, S, F...) I know he knows it b/c he'll look at a b and say d but say d for boy and ball.... little frusterating...but i think he's trying... He's grasped so much more with HAs---I don't want to push too hard...but we do worksheets all the time and he practically lives at the library and sleeps with books! ________________________________ From: Listen-Up [mailto:Listen-Up ] On Behalf Of Barbara Mellert Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:14 AM To: Listen-Up Subject: Re: Terminology question That's what happened to us, - they couldn't believe Tom was getting by with the hearing loss he had given how well he spoke so he was retested before getting hearing aids. I've found this both a good and bad thing. Once Tom started school, because he speaks so well, it at times was hard to convince folks that he needed the services he did. Yes, he spoke well but he's still deaf/hoh and really needed all that iterative stuff. Barbara Naughton wrote: > We went for the first hearing screen a few days before his 4th > bday...nothing...the audi thought he wasn't paying attention/wasn't > comfortable with the surroundings...yada yada...we rescheduled for a few > weeks later...she turned the sounds up much higher...and realized he > wasn't hearing anything on the last test...she didn't think to go higher > because of his speech!! > At the end of that appt she says, well...he can't hear a lot....and > he'll need hearing aids....and off to the ENT we went....who tested him > agian b/c when he talked to , he didn't believe the initial results! > > > ________________________________ > > From: Listen-Up [mailto:Listen-Up ] On > Behalf Of pcknott@... > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:53 AM > To: Listen-Up > Subject: Re: Terminology question > > > > Jill, your posts are always terrific but this one was more than > eloquent! You also described our life with Maggie!! Who went undiagnosed > until almost 4 with a mod-severe loss. When the audie was diagnosing > her, she did a number of " extra " tests because she couldn't believe the > level of loss compared to the level of language. Maggie was/is a strong > willed kid who literally got carried for the first 3 1/2 years - she > didn't like to get put down. So she kept herself in earshot. Yet her > language skills were like swiss cheese - lots of holes - esp where you > wouldn't expect them. > > Re: Terminology question >> >> Sherry, >> >> This is one of the hardest parts of the whole concept of our kids being >> > HOH. > >> Tracey has it right, that speech banana is for people about 3 feet away >> > and > >> since we do tend to keep little ones closer, they tend to hear us >> > better than > >> their audiogram indicates. We also tend to talk to them like they're >> > little > >> kids, getting them to pay attention first and then talking -- like the >> > cliche > >> nursery school teacher. Repeating yourself to a 3-year-old is nothing >> original, you learn to say the same thing over and over again, phrasing >> > it > >> differently each time, and that's for a hearing kid. D/HOH kids benefit >> > from that > >> tendency >> >> But here is some of the confusion for you ...they are perceptive little >> > > >> devils. They react when we react -- that is part of what they are >> > learning when > >> they're little. How to interact with the world around them. So, while >> > we are > >> turning towards a noise, they may be noticing the shadow being cast by >> > the > >> person entering to the room as we turn. Now they've learned that new >> > people > >> coming in change the light in the doorway or cast a shadow in the room, >> > or smell > >> of dishwashing soap and the smell comes just before the person arrives. >> > > >> Visual clues being learned from the hearing parents without us even >> > realizing that > >> we're teaching them. >> >> Next bit of confusion, some kids, no matter what the loss, or what type >> > of > >> loss, are oral. They tend to talk more, understand speech more. No one >> > knows > >> why. When a friend of our son's parents found out his actual hearing >> > loss (he > >> was 4) they were beyond stunned. The boy had a severe loss, but was >> > talking > >> rather clearly. The speech issue he had is not related to his hearing, >> > but to > >> his tongue so no one ever suggested that he get a more complete hearing >> > scan, > >> not even the speech therapist. >> >> Everyone assumes Ian can hears us because he talks so clearly. Yet he >> > sat > >> there last night, reattaching some part of his headphones, aids out, >> > but only 2 > >> feet in front of my husband and Ian did NOT hear Larry's request that >> > Ian > >> pass him the laptop. He asked three times, then barked, thinking Ian >> > was > >> ignoring him, not realizing both aids were out. >> >> Simple proof, our Ian can't hear an awful lot without his aids. Speaks >> > as > >> clearly, if not more so that most people I know. He reads lips >> > beautifully, > >> reads shadows moving around to indicate people or things, and reads >> > body > >> language like a pro. But my boy can't really hear you when sitting next >> > to you > >> unless he knows to pay attention to you. Otherwise our voices are >> > merely part of > >> the background noise of the room. (Breaks my heart all over again if I >> > think > >> about it too much.) >> >> When he answered my husband, he held up an aid, made a polite " see?! " >> > face > >> and reminded us " Deaf Boy can't hear you without bionics. " >> >> So, part of this may be that up close, your son does hear something, >> > enough > >> to figure out what you're saying. Or he may be learning to lip read. Or >> > he may > >> faking it -- never underestimate these kids ability to cope or to fake >> > it. > >> They are really good at that! >> >> If I had just walked into the room and asked Ian to hand me the laptop, >> > he'd > >> have looked up (seeing me change the light in the doorway) and perhaps >> > seen > >> my last word " laptop " and then done his classic fake-it/coping >> > " follow-up > >> question " routine and asked something like " You want the laptop in >> > there? " > >> Causing me to restate my original question, and perhaps misleading me >> > into > >> thinking he'd heard me the first time. >> >> These kids are masters of coping and faking it because that gets them >> > by. > >> They don't even realize they're doing it. >> >> Hope this helps, although it's not a simple answer as to why he seems >> > to > >> hear you. >> >> >> Best -- Jill. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Wow, once again you guys have made such a difference in helping me understand all of this! Thank you! It is amazing reading some of your posts and thinking " she could be describing " - and now lightbulbs are going off in my head on numerous things - I never understood why insisted on being carried everywhere I just knew it frustrated me - I tried to break him of this several times (esp. when baby #2 came!) with no luck, until this summer I hurt my back and voila he complained but dealt with it. Well, of course, he had gotten his hearing aids about 6 weeks before that! I never thought of it that way...I was just glad not to be lugging 32 pounds of toddler around in addition to a baby! And we have always read a ton - and of course he snuggles up right next to me, if not on top of my lap. So he couldn't have been speech reading then, but probably was close enough to understand more and also had the context of the pictures in the book. That also explains why it doesn't bother him to take his hearing aids out before bedtime stories like I thought it would - cause we read the stories with him on our laps. Of course we don't know when he lost his hearing since he passed his newborn screen. So while I'm sure he lost it at least before he was 1 1/2, he may have heard more when he was a baby. And what Jill said about " knowing that he he remained silent and staring, adults would repeat themselves " - totally is . We have a really hard time distinguishing between whether he doesn't understand what we've said and so is waiting for us to rephrase/repeat or if he is willfully ignoring us (as most 2-3 year olds do). In fact we had a great example of that last night - was ready to read bedtime stories and had already taken his aids out and my hubby said something off the wall to and just stared at him. I think he wanted to understand but had no idea what daddy was talking about. Those moments break my heart. And as for the retesting - initially failed his booth test in March, but he had so much language that no one believed it, I guess even the audiologist (even though he failed the OAE test too...) Thereby leading to him not getting his aids until after his ABR, which was 2 months later (and then another month for the aids). It makes me angry if I allow myself to think about the fact that Children's Hospital essentially allowed him to continue to go unaided for 3 additional months. But that is a topic for a different post... So I guess I " get it " more now. Of course, I wanted the answer to be - the audiogram must be wrong - but I see that there are numerous factors that probably all contribute a little bit to why it is he can do so well unaided. Thanks for helping me understand the speech banana better - I'm going to try to look at it as more of a guideline - like /z/ and /m/ are spoken at about the same frequency, but you need to be able to hear better to hear the /z/ than the /m/. Sherry Re: Terminology question Jill, your posts are always terrific but this one was more than eloquent! You also described our life with Maggie!! Who went undiagnosed until almost 4 with a mod-severe loss. When the audie was diagnosing her, she did a number of " extra " tests because she couldn't believe the level of loss compared to the level of language. Maggie was/is a strong willed kid who literally got carried for the first 3 1/2 years - she didn't like to get put down. So she kept herself in earshot. Yet her language skills were like swiss cheese - lots of holes - esp where you wouldn't expect them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Maggie is an auditory learner though she is also very strongly visual. She can do the " Where's Waldo " in no time flat and always notices details that no one else does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 's freaky almost with visual stuff! Where's Waldo is a fave...and he can give you directions to ANYWHERE even if he's only been there once... ________________________________ From: Listen-Up [mailto:Listen-Up ] On Behalf Of pcknott@... Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 2:14 PM To: Listen-Up Subject: Re: Re: Terminology question Maggie is an auditory learner though she is also very strongly visual. She can do the " Where's Waldo " in no time flat and always notices details that no one else does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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