Preschool update

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/5/2006 1:50:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

tndarcher@... writes:

So now am I being too picky? I just don't understand why they would pay for

one of the very expensive private deaf schools, but not the local private

school, which I have just found out is only $90 per month.

Tawnya

Tawnya,

Not too picky, just wanting what's right for your child. I'd go and check

out the different programs. The Head Start program on our area was a good one

and run by people who knew what they're doing. So perhaps it depends on the

individual program and people involved.

I'd go and see what the different programs had to offer. No harm in checking

them out, perhaps one of them will work for you guys.

Also, perhaps offering the specialized expensive program has to do with

funding. The specialized programs are usually funded by the state's EI program,

They adhere to the requirements for funding/reimbursement, where the private

programs may not be certified or approved to receive those funds. I'd ask of

that's their concern when considering the private placement.

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

So now they are offering Head Start, or Special Ed, or one of the schools for

the deaf.

Not that I have anything against Head Start, but when I worked there a few years

back, it wasn't something I would ever send my child to.

So now am I being too picky? I just don't understand why they would pay for one

of the very expensive private deaf schools, but not the local private school,

which I have just found out is only $90 per month.

Tawnya

[Guest guest]

Our district also referred my son to a Head Start program. I declined, and

am paying for the private preschool. It was an " integrated preschool "

meaning that it was about half kids with special needs, and half non-special

needs kids. But it clearly was not set up for hearing impaired kids (the

accoustics were horrendous) and the non-special needs kids were mainly

Spanish speaking. Which would be fine in most cases, but not for a hearing

impaired kid who is struggling to pick up standard English and needs peer

interaction. I don't think there was anything wrong with the program per se,

but it didn't offer anything that he couldn't already get at his private

preschool - the ratios were the same, and the program (Bank Street style

progressive) was pretty much the same.

My take on it was that for the district to pay for the preschool, we had to

go with their choice. HOWEVER, they are paying for services at his private

preschool, just not for the preschool itself. This was fine with me - he has

been at that school since he was a baby (it is a daycare) and knows the

teachers really well.

Bonnie

>

> So now they are offering Head Start, or Special Ed, or one of the

> schools for the deaf.

>

> Not that I have anything against Head Start, but when I worked there a few

> years back, it wasn't something I would ever send my child to.

>

> So now am I being too picky? I just don't understand why they would pay

> for one of the very expensive private deaf schools, but not the local

> private school, which I have just found out is only $90 per month.

>

> Tawnya

>

> [

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jill,

I will definately check them out. And I will ask about the funding.

Thanks!

Tawnya

Re: Preschool update

In a message dated 9/5/2006 1:50:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

tndarcher@... writes:

So now am I being too picky? I just don't understand why they would pay for

one of the very expensive private deaf schools, but not the local private

school, which I have just found out is only $90 per month.

Tawnya

Tawnya,

Not too picky, just wanting what's right for your child. I'd go and check

out the different programs. The Head Start program on our area was a good one

and run by people who knew what they're doing. So perhaps it depends on the

individual program and people involved.

I'd go and see what the different programs had to offer. No harm in checking

them out, perhaps one of them will work for you guys.

Also, perhaps offering the specialized expensive program has to do with

funding. The specialized programs are usually funded by the state's EI

program,

They adhere to the requirements for funding/reimbursement, where the private

programs may not be certified or approved to receive those funds. I'd ask of

that's their concern when considering the private placement.

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

<

[Guest guest]

Yep. I think that is the case. But I would also think that they would want to

encourage us to use a cheaper option. But I guess not!

Tawnya

Re: Preschool update

<

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/6/2006 2:56:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

sandidevz@... writes:

The

issue is that the district will not give us other services unless we send

our daughter to " their " integrated program.

My question is, how were you able to still get services paid by the district

even though you are paying for private school. My understanding is that by

law, the school district is not obligated to pay for services if you choose

a private school setting. Any compelling arguments you can share would be

greatly appreciated as we are meeting with the Director of Special Services

from the school district tomorrow.

First off, (and I am not questioning what you want for your child) have you

visited the program to see it and evaluate it? It sounds as though it has half

the class as appropriate role models and perhaps that is sufficient. The

language delays of the other children may very severe and you may have more

role models than you think. My sister's son was in a class like the one you

describe (he was delayed in his speech, no hearing loss) and the program was

fabulous. Very language rich and the smaller group made for more one-on-one

attention for my nephew. It was far better in person than it appeared on paper.

From what I understand, EI services are provided based on a proven need, a

proven delay possibly caused by a disability. A disability alone may not be

enough to warrant EI services if that disability is not causing a sufficient,

demonstrable delay. So perhaps the standards in your area are that a child who

is capable of functioning in the mainstream setting does not meet the delay

levels warranting EI services. (Just a guess here.)

As far as the choice of a private school negating the requirement for them

to provide services, that is not exactly the case. But it is common for school

districts to claim it is. My experience with this have been with school age

children and the rules are different then. All those children are provided a

free public education therefore the schools are required to provide needed

services for kids who would not have met the levels for the EI services.

Around here (NY) the services for all the kids within a district are

coordinated and paid for by the local district. Creating and altering IEPs and

the

evaluative testing is all handled by the district (who is answerable to the

state), even if the child is in a private school outside the local district.

Each state is different, but here in NY the districts will often argue that by

choosing your own private setting (not a placement approved by the IEP team)

the parents have chosen to forgo some of the services that are readily

available in the public setting (most commonly speech, OT and PT) and are

services

that could prove to be quite expensive to hire for only one child in a

private school setting. Arguing undue financial expense is one way a district

can

get out of providing services. By placing our kids in private settings, we've

taken away the easy access of the district's on-staff personnel and caused a

financial increase to provide services. That choice does not usually work in

our favor.

That said, there are plenty of people here who have managed to continue to

receive services at home while the child is in a private pre-school. Even when

the child is in regular half-day Kindergarten.

I would stick to the assertion that the fully mainstream setting is the

appropriate LRE (least restrictive environment) for your daughter. Once you get

them to agree to that point, then they must provide her needed services within

that setting.

Are the services they are offering part of what is available within that

integrated program? Have they been providing these services to you up to this

point? Are your daughter's delays sufficient to argue that services need to

continue even if she is placed in a private setting?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but my feeble brain can't keep track and

those answers will matter when trying to establish the LRE and in forcing them

to provide services outside of their own program's setting.

Sorry to ramble on .. it's been quite a long day already!

-- Jill

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/6/2006 4:09:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

JillcWood@... writes:

The

language delays of the other children may very severe and you may have more

role models than you think.

OOPS! I meant:

The language delays of the other children may NOT BE very severe and you may

have more role models than you think.

Sorry!

Jill

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/6/2006 4:32:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

bkmackellar@... writes:

The district contracts the services out to agencies that specialize in

itinerant service providers. They have a whole long list of agencies that

they deal with. So, we live in Eastchester, but Elias goes to preschool in

White Plains. His SEIT comes from an agency that has offices in several

locations in Westchester and NYC. ... I just thought this was the normal

way of doing things in NY. Until this year's IEP meeting, I had never heard of

an integrated preschool, and Elias had already been getting services for 2

years at that point.

Bonnie,

Perhaps the differences are in part because we're up in Dutchess County and

also not dealing with EI or pre-school stuff. We have far fewer resources

available around here. For instance, going into NYC to see a specialist or even

bring in a consultant from there is like trying to bring in someone from

Russia. Ian's doctors are all in Westchester or NYC. Our district acts as

though

we're traveling to Siberia when I talk about driving to Mt. Kisco to see our

audiologist. But there just aren't people locally who have a clue about Ian's

issues or appropriate experiences that qualify them to be his doctors. The

best place locally is the Communications Disorders Center at St Francis in

Poughkeepsie. And that doesn't even come close to Montefiore, never mind

Columbia.

It's like comparing NYC to the Little House on the Prairie sometimes. Which

is funny because we're so close to Westchester and so many world class

doctors and services.

Up here, the private school experiences I've helped with have all been for

school age kids, not pre-school. EI and transitioning is a whole new realm for

me and I know it has different rules. One of the other Listen-Up moms,

(Cheryl -- who lived only 10 minutes from me but moved upstate recently) dealt

with the local EI and then the transition process here in Dutchess and needed

to

bring in the School in order to get her daughter what she needed. It

was not easy or smooth and they acted as though asking for reasonable services

was demanding the moon.

As far as I know, there is no integrated pre-school close to me, just that

program run by St Francis which is considered an integrated program and is 40+

minutes away. And the few D/HOH specialists around are available through

BOCES, unless you go about finding your own who have worked with one of the

deaf

schools like Fanwood, a state school in/near White Plains or the Lexington

school, a private one in NYC. There just aren't as many choice once you cross

north of I-84.

There is only one school locally with enough enrollment to support having

its own D/HOH programs and I think they still hire in for all their D/HOH needs

from BOCES as well.

At one point I located a group of parents who met in Fishkill to receive ASL

instruction and other support services. But it was a closed group, only for

parents of the residential students at that specific deaf school. (They

politely but firmly told me I was unwelcome.) The local state resource (Taconic

Resources) is quite limited in what they will offer, and again, your child has

to meet some benchmarks of delay or need before they will do more than answer

a few questions over the phone. For them, Ian isn't " deaf enough " yet to

warrant their support.

I think Westchester is not quite the norm for NY as a state because it has

so many resources close together as well as more organized public health

services. I wish it were the norm! Plus it is so close to NYC and so much of

its

population works in the city. We simply expected quality health care when we

lived there and we got it. The benefits of being a well-populated (and in

parts very wealthy) county.

Moving up here was an eye opener! It's so close, yet so far -- cliche but

true.

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

Hi,

We are in a similar situation for our 3 year old daughter. Our school

district is offering an " integrated program " preschool class which is 8 kids

non-classified and 8 kids classified/special needs. They verbally told us

that the general makeup of the classified children is speech delay --about a

6-8 month delay on average. In our mind, this is not an appropriate

environment for our HOH child since she needs to benefit from more typical

peers who have good language & speech already. The district is offering us a

TOD, FM system, & speech therapy if we send our daughter to the integrated

program. We have made it very clear that a fully non-restrictive mainstream

preschool is appropriate and are willing to pay for the private school. The

issue is that the district will not give us other services unless we send

our daughter to " their " integrated program.

My question is, how were you able to still get services paid by the district

even though you are paying for private school. My understanding is that by

law, the school district is not obligated to pay for services if you choose

a private school setting. Any compelling arguments you can share would be

greatly appreciated as we are meeting with the Director of Special Services

from the school district tomorrow.

Many thanks

Sandi

Mom to Ayanna, bi-lateral severe hearing loss

>

>Reply-To: Listen-Up

>To: Listen-Up

>Subject: Re: Preschool update

>Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 14:11:33 -0400

>

>Our district also referred my son to a Head Start program. I declined, and

>am paying for the private preschool. It was an " integrated preschool "

>meaning that it was about half kids with special needs, and half

>non-special

>needs kids. But it clearly was not set up for hearing impaired kids (the

>accoustics were horrendous) and the non-special needs kids were mainly

>Spanish speaking. Which would be fine in most cases, but not for a hearing

>impaired kid who is struggling to pick up standard English and needs peer

>interaction. I don't think there was anything wrong with the program per

>se,

>but it didn't offer anything that he couldn't already get at his private

>preschool - the ratios were the same, and the program (Bank Street style

>progressive) was pretty much the same.

>

>My take on it was that for the district to pay for the preschool, we had to

>go with their choice. HOWEVER, they are paying for services at his private

>preschool, just not for the preschool itself. This was fine with me - he

>has

>been at that school since he was a baby (it is a daycare) and knows the

>teachers really well.

>

>Bonnie

>

>

> >

> > So now they are offering Head Start, or Special Ed, or one of the

> > schools for the deaf.

> >

> > Not that I have anything against Head Start, but when I worked there a

>few

> > years back, it wasn't something I would ever send my child to.

> >

> > So now am I being too picky? I just don't understand why they would pay

> > for one of the very expensive private deaf schools, but not the local

> > private school, which I have just found out is only $90 per month.

> >

> > Tawnya

> >

> > [

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/6/2006 6:51:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

bkmackellar@... writes:

I would be happy to pay

privately for an evaluation and recommendations, but no one will talk

to me because I am not in the school district!!!

Right now we badly need a hearing loss specialist of some type, to

just come in occassionally and talk to the preschool teachers (and me)

about effective ways to use the FM system, strategies for getting

Elias to listen effectively, etc. The speech therapist has been filling

that role to some extent, and she does have some experience with

FM systems and hearing aids, but she is more focused on getting

Elias to talk understandably than she is on getting him to understand

what he hears.

The person who fills this role for us is Ian's TOD, who is provided through

BOCES. I developed a relationship with her one-to-one by exchanging notes at

first, and later phone calls about what Ian needed and how I could work with

him. Not at the IEP meetings and not through official channels. It developed

as she worked with our son.

Does Elias have a TOD meeting and working with him? If not, I would request

that be added to his services. One of the moms here said that the SLP is in

charge of how language comes out of our kids. A TOD is who gets it into them in

the first place. (Or something close to that.) So it sounds to me like what

you are wanting/needing is a TOD.

<>

As for finding a consultant, well there was nothing near here, so I called

the Lexington School in NYC and found a very helpful woman who was willing to

talk with me and answer questions. She's no longer there, but the school

itself was very helpful -- no matter who I spoke with, they were patient and

compassionate. I don't know if they do private assessments, but I believe that

they do. Ask what kind of things should be assessed, what tests and eval's

they'd want to do. I'd call and ask if you can arrange for them to assess Bobby

if that is something you really want. There are ways to do this, but I have no

idea about the expense.

Another mom I know used the School, which is in Massachusetts (or

close to it in CT), I think. She took her daughter there for a private

assessment

so that she could then bring that information back to her own district and

request what her daughter needed.

To get a private assessment, you're going to have to contact a private

school. Personally, I'd prefer a private assessment to the district's. That way

I'd know that they were stating what my son needed, not simply offering what

they were willing to pay for. What was easy for them.

I also had no luck talking directly with BOCES. Couldn't get a TOD to talk

with me, even off the record to point me in the right direction. And the local

state advocacy center didn't take Ian's hearing loss seriously -- he wasn't

deaf enough yet according to their standards. (ugh) I think the first TOD I

spoke with was one who had recently retired from Fanwood in White Plains.

(she's since moved to Florida)

In my desperation, I called the private deaf schools and simply stated that

I had a child who was losing his hearing and I needed help to help him. I had

no idea what I needed or what to do. They gave me advice. I'd never heard of

or Moog, so I called the ones I found here in NY. The Lexington School

has a good reputation from what I've heard. Perhaps someone on the list has

had direct dealings with them as a school, I only dealt with their

administrators (8 years ago, sorry)

So, makes some calls and see if you can set up a private assessment at a

private school.

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/6/2006 7:18:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

tndarcher@... writes:

Is there anything about class size in the laws?

I think this is one of those things that varies form state to state. I'd

call your state ed department and ask. Or google it and see what you find.

I don't know the official pre-school ratios here in NY -- I think it's 1

teacher to 8 kids, but I am not 100% sure about that. Sorry!

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

It was the way my kid was set up initially. Maybe because he is a cancer

kid, no one

wanted to change his school placement when he transitioned from Early

Intervention

to CPSE (preschool special ed in my state). He did a full year like

that.Thewhole thing with the integrated

preschool came up very strangely - we had finished the most recent IEP

meeting, and everyone

was happy, when suddenly the SEIT dragged the committee chairwoman to an

office. After a few minutes, they dragged me in, and said that the SEIT

thought that

Elias should go to an integrated preschool. I wasn't really into it, but I

decided

to check the school out. It was definitely not an appropriate placement, for

the reasons

you mention, and also the Spanish speaking issue and the accoustics. At that

point, I realized that the SEIT had no clue how to deal with hearing loss,

and thinks

she just has a kid with speech and social delays. But that is a whole

'nother can

of worms.

So I think it was just happenstance - he had a long medical history, and the

services at the

private preschool was working well for him when he came into the system.

Bonnie

>

> Hi,

>

> We are in a similar situation for our 3 year old daughter. Our school

> district is offering an " integrated program " preschool class which is 8

> kids

> non-classified and 8 kids classified/special needs. They verbally told us

> that the general makeup of the classified children is speech delay --about

> a

> 6-8 month delay on average. In our mind, this is not an appropriate

> environment for our HOH child since she needs to benefit from more typical

>

> peers who have good language & speech already. The district is offering us

> a

> TOD, FM system, & speech therapy if we send our daughter to the integrated

>

> program. We have made it very clear that a fully non-restrictive

> mainstream

> preschool is appropriate and are willing to pay for the private school.

> The

> issue is that the district will not give us other services unless we send

> our daughter to " their " integrated program.

>

> My question is, how were you able to still get services paid by the

> district

> even though you are paying for private school. My understanding is that by

>

> law, the school district is not obligated to pay for services if you

> choose

> a private school setting. Any compelling arguments you can share would be

> greatly appreciated as we are meeting with the Director of Special

> Services

> from the school district tomorrow.

>

> Many thanks

> Sandi

>

> Mom to Ayanna, bi-lateral severe hearing loss

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

They are telling us that Ian will get speech/HOH services no matter what school

we chose. So I have no idea!

Tawnya

Re: Preschool update

>Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 14:11:33 -0400

>

>Our district also referred my son to a Head Start program. I declined, and

>am paying for the private preschool. It was an " integrated preschool "

>meaning that it was about half kids with special needs, and half

>non-special

>needs kids. But it clearly was not set up for hearing impaired kids (the

>accoustics were horrendous) and the non-special needs kids were mainly

>Spanish speaking. Which would be fine in most cases, but not for a hearing

>impaired kid who is struggling to pick up standard English and needs peer

>interaction. I don't think there was anything wrong with the program per

>se,

>but it didn't offer anything that he couldn't already get at his private

>preschool - the ratios were the same, and the program (Bank Street style

>progressive) was pretty much the same.

>

>My take on it was that for the district to pay for the preschool, we had to

>go with their choice. HOWEVER, they are paying for services at his private

>preschool, just not for the preschool itself. This was fine with me - he

>has

>been at that school since he was a baby (it is a daycare) and knows the

>teachers really well.

>

>Bonnie

>

>

> >

> > So now they are offering Head Start, or Special Ed, or one of the

> > schools for the deaf.

> >

> > Not that I have anything against Head Start, but when I worked there a

>few

> > years back, it wasn't something I would ever send my child to.

> >

> > So now am I being too picky? I just don't understand why they would pay

> > for one of the very expensive private deaf schools, but not the local

> > private school, which I have just found out is only $90 per month.

> >

> > Tawnya

> >

> > [

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting. We are also in NY (Westchester County), and this hasn't been

our experience at all. Our district seems to think that itinerant services

are the " norm " . In fact, the offer of the integrated preschool placement was

offered as a perk over and beyond the itinerant services. The commitee

chairwoman seemed to imply that they wouldn't offer that to most kids

getting services.

The district contracts the services out to agencies that specialize in

itinerant service providers. They have a whole long list of agencies that

they deal with. So, we live in Eastchester, but Elias goes to preschool in

White Plains. His SEIT comes from an agency that has offices in several

locations in Westchester and NYC. His speech therapist comes from our school

district (actually Bronxville, but that is within our district) but she

comes to our house after school. He will be getting PT this year at a center

in Elmsford, and his OT comes from yet another Westchester-based agency. The

OT and SEIT go to the preschool. The speech therapist comes to our house for

the most part although she goes to the preschool as needed.

I just thought this was the normal way of doing things in NY. Until this

year's IEP meeting, I had never heard of an integrated preschool, and Elias

had already been getting services for 2 years at that point.

Bonnie

>

>

>

>

> Around here (NY) the services for all the kids within a district are

> coordinated and paid for by the local district. Creating and altering IEPs

> and the

> evaluative testing is all handled by the district (who is answerable to

> the

> state), even if the child is in a private school outside the local

> district.

> Each state is different, but here in NY the districts will often argue

> that by

> choosing your own private setting (not a placement approved by the IEP

> team)

> the parents have chosen to forgo some of the services that are readily

> available in the public setting (most commonly speech, OT and PT) and are

> services

> that could prove to be quite expensive to hire for only one child in a

> private school setting. Arguing undue financial expense is one way a

> district can

> get out of providing services. By placing our kids in private settings,

> we've

> taken away the easy access of the district's on-staff personnel and caused

> a

> financial increase to provide services. That choice does not usually work

> in

> our favor.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Under FAPE, public school systems are required to

provide reasonable services required to help a child

overcome disabilities to be a successful and

productive adult, starting at the age of 3 until they

complete high school. This is true whether the child

attends a public school, a private school, or is

homeschooled.

However, different regions interpret this requirement

in different ways, and not all services may be

appropriate for any given situation. Much of the

" hardware " services (word processors, FM systems,

etc.) are paid for using funding that requires that

the equipment remain on school grounds, and unless

they can get the equipment another way, they wouldn't

be able to use it at home or at a private school. In

other cases, they may feel that offering a reasonable

solution is sufficient, even if it is not the

preferred option.

Therapy services, like speech and OT, can be delivered

in a variety of ways. When our son was in preschool,

he attended a private school, but the public

elementary school provided transportation to get him

to school for therapy. He also broke his leg and was

in a body cast for more than a month. Transportation

by anyone just for therapy was not an option, so the

school sent a therapist to our home until he was

mobile again.

Before the age of three, services should be provided

by an Early Intervention/Birth-Three/First Steps

program, which typically provides therapy on-site,

either at day care or in the child's home.

If the school is refusing reasonable services in a

least restrictive environment, it may be time to

contact an advocate or lawyer to discuss the situation

and see what the situation really is.

Kiminy

--- The Archers tndarcher@...> wrote:

> They are telling us that Ian will get speech/HOH

> services no matter what school we chose. So I have

> no idea!

>

> Tawnya

>

> Re: Preschool update

> >Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 14:11:33 -0400

> >

> >Our district also referred my son to a Head Start

> program. I declined, and

> >am paying for the private preschool. It was an

> " integrated preschool "

> >meaning that it was about half kids with special

> needs, and half

> >non-special

> >needs kids. But it clearly was not set up for

> hearing impaired kids (the

> >accoustics were horrendous) and the non-special

> needs kids were mainly

> >Spanish speaking. Which would be fine in most

> cases, but not for a hearing

> >impaired kid who is struggling to pick up

> standard English and needs peer

> >interaction. I don't think there was anything

> wrong with the program per

> >se,

> >but it didn't offer anything that he couldn't

> already get at his private

> >preschool - the ratios were the same, and the

> program (Bank Street style

> >progressive) was pretty much the same.

> >

> >My take on it was that for the district to pay

> for the preschool, we had to

> >go with their choice. HOWEVER, they are paying

> for services at his private

> >preschool, just not for the preschool itself.

> This was fine with me - he

> >has

> >been at that school since he was a baby (it is a

> daycare) and knows the

> >teachers really well.

> >

> >Bonnie

> >

> >On 9/5/06, The Archers tndarcher@...>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > So now they are offering Head Start, or

> Special Ed, or one of the

> > > schools for the deaf.

> > >

> > > Not that I have anything against Head Start,

> but when I worked there a

> >few

> > > years back, it wasn't something I would ever

> send my child to.

> > >

> > > So now am I being too picky? I just don't

> understand why they would pay

> > > for one of the very expensive private deaf

> schools, but not the local

> > > private school, which I have just found out is

> only $90 per month.

> > >

> > > Tawnya

> > >

> > > [

> > >

> >

> >

> >[Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

> All messages posted to this list are private and

> confidential. Each post is the intellectual

> property of the author and therefore subject to

> copyright restrictions.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks!!

I really just want to call someone to ask if it is ok to not pay for private

preschool, since there is not a " quality " public preschool available.

This is so confusing!!

Tawnya

Re: Preschool update

> >Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 14:11:33 -0400

> >

> >Our district also referred my son to a Head Start

> program. I declined, and

> >am paying for the private preschool. It was an

> " integrated preschool "

> >meaning that it was about half kids with special

> needs, and half

> >non-special

> >needs kids. But it clearly was not set up for

> hearing impaired kids (the

> >accoustics were horrendous) and the non-special

> needs kids were mainly

> >Spanish speaking. Which would be fine in most

> cases, but not for a hearing

> >impaired kid who is struggling to pick up

> standard English and needs peer

> >interaction. I don't think there was anything

> wrong with the program per

> >se,

> >but it didn't offer anything that he couldn't

> already get at his private

> >preschool - the ratios were the same, and the

> program (Bank Street style

> >progressive) was pretty much the same.

> >

> >My take on it was that for the district to pay

> for the preschool, we had to

> >go with their choice. HOWEVER, they are paying

> for services at his private

> >preschool, just not for the preschool itself.

> This was fine with me - he

> >has

> >been at that school since he was a baby (it is a

> daycare) and knows the

> >teachers really well.

> >

> >Bonnie

> >

> >On 9/5/06, The Archers tndarcher@...>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > So now they are offering Head Start, or

> Special Ed, or one of the

> > > schools for the deaf.

> > >

> > > Not that I have anything against Head Start,

> but when I worked there a

> >few

> > > years back, it wasn't something I would ever

> send my child to.

> > >

> > > So now am I being too picky? I just don't

> understand why they would pay

> > > for one of the very expensive private deaf

> schools, but not the local

> > > private school, which I have just found out is

> only $90 per month.

> > >

> > > Tawnya

> > >

> > > [

> > >

> >

> >

> >[Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

> All messages posted to this list are private and

> confidential. Each post is the intellectual

> property of the author and therefore subject to

> copyright restrictions.

>

[Guest guest]

Ok, I just found out that the public preschool they are offering has a 2:17

ratio in the 3 year old class.

Is there anything about class size in the laws?

Tawnya

Re: Preschool update

> >Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 14:11:33 -0400

> >

> >Our district also referred my son to a Head Start

> program. I declined, and

> >am paying for the private preschool. It was an

> " integrated preschool "

> >meaning that it was about half kids with special

> needs, and half

> >non-special

> >needs kids. But it clearly was not set up for

> hearing impaired kids (the

> >accoustics were horrendous) and the non-special

> needs kids were mainly

> >Spanish speaking. Which would be fine in most

> cases, but not for a hearing

> >impaired kid who is struggling to pick up

> standard English and needs peer

> >interaction. I don't think there was anything

> wrong with the program per

> >se,

> >but it didn't offer anything that he couldn't

> already get at his private

> >preschool - the ratios were the same, and the

> program (Bank Street style

> >progressive) was pretty much the same.

> >

> >My take on it was that for the district to pay

> for the preschool, we had to

> >go with their choice. HOWEVER, they are paying

> for services at his private

> >preschool, just not for the preschool itself.

> This was fine with me - he

> >has

> >been at that school since he was a baby (it is a

> daycare) and knows the

> >teachers really well.

> >

> >Bonnie

> >

> >On 9/5/06, The Archers tndarcher@...>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > So now they are offering Head Start, or

> Special Ed, or one of the

> > > schools for the deaf.

> > >

> > > Not that I have anything against Head Start,

> but when I worked there a

> >few

> > > years back, it wasn't something I would ever

> send my child to.

> > >

> > > So now am I being too picky? I just don't

> understand why they would pay

> > > for one of the very expensive private deaf

> schools, but not the local

> > > private school, which I have just found out is

> only $90 per month.

> > >

> > > Tawnya

> > >

> > > [

> > >

> >

> >

> >[Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

> All messages posted to this list are private and

> confidential. Each post is the intellectual

> property of the author and therefore subject to

> copyright restrictions.

>

[Guest guest]

If Westchester has so many specialists available, how come I can't find

any resources specific to hearing loss here?

That is a real sticking point for me right now. I can't get anyone at BOCES

to talk to me because I am a parent, not a school district. But I can't get

the district to look into services unless I reopen the IEP. And I don't want

to do that until I have actually spoken to hearing loss specialists, so I

can

find out what wuold be appropriate for Elias. I would be happy to pay

privately for an evaluation and recommendations, but no one will talk

to me because I am not in the school district!!!

Right now we badly need a hearing loss specialist of some type, to

just come in occassionally and talk to the preschool teachers (and me)

about effective ways to use the FM system, strategies for getting

Elias to listen effectively, etc. The speech therapist has been filling

that role to some extent, and she does have some experience with

FM systems and hearing aids, but she is more focused on getting

Elias to talk understandably than she is on getting him to understand

what he hears.

In general, the districts won't deal with anybody in NYC. The big

agencies, like Theracare, have offices in both NYC and Westchester,

but no one will cross that border with the Bronx, 5 miles away.

It was a huge problem when Elias was in EI, and in treatment at

MSKCC. He was spending 10 hours a day sitting in clinic doing

nothing but waiting. He could have done his PT sessions in clinic - they

had the equipment, and the interest in him getting the PT. But no,

the therapist couldn't cross into Manhattan. And his EI coordinator

was based in Manhattan, because he was also on the Medicaid program

for medically fragile children. It was so messy.

And before we all start wishing we lived in Manhattan, I have heard

horror stories from parents I know who live there and need to

get services through the NYC school system.

I think finding specialists in hearing loss is hard everywhere...

Bonnie

>

> I

> Bonnie,

>

> Perhaps the differences are in part because we're up in Dutchess County

> and

> also not dealing with EI or pre-school stuff. We have far fewer resources

> available around here. For instance, going into NYC to see a specialist or

> even

> bring in a consultant from there is like trying to bring in someone from

> Russia. Ian's doctors are all in Westchester or NYC. Our district acts as

> though

> we're traveling to Siberia when I talk about driving to Mt. Kisco to see

> our

> audiologist. But there just aren't people locally who have a clue about

> Ian's

> issues or appropriate experiences that qualify them to be his doctors. The

>

> best place locally is the Communications Disorders Center at St Francis in

>

> Poughkeepsie. And that doesn't even come close to Montefiore, never mind

> Columbia.

>

> It's like comparing NYC to the Little House on the Prairie sometimes.

> Which

> is funny because we're so close to Westchester and so many world class

> doctors and services.

>

> Up here, the private school experiences I've helped with have all been for

>

> school age kids, not pre-school. EI and transitioning is a whole new realm

> for

> me and I know it has different rules. One of the other Listen-Up moms,

> (Cheryl -- who lived only 10 minutes from me but moved upstate recently)

> dealt

> with the local EI and then the transition process here in Dutchess and

> needed to

> bring in the School in order to get her daughter what she needed. It

>

> was not easy or smooth and they acted as though asking for reasonable

> services

> was demanding the moon.

>

> As far as I know, there is no integrated pre-school close to me, just that

>

> program run by St Francis which is considered an integrated program and is

> 40+

> minutes away. And the few D/HOH specialists around are available through

> BOCES, unless you go about finding your own who have worked with one of

> the deaf

> schools like Fanwood, a state school in/near White Plains or the Lexington

>

> school, a private one in NYC. There just aren't as many choice once you

> cross

> north of I-84.

>

> There is only one school locally with enough enrollment to support having

> its own D/HOH programs and I think they still hire in for all their D/HOH

> needs

> from BOCES as well.

>

> At one point I located a group of parents who met in Fishkill to receive

> ASL

> instruction and other support services. But it was a closed group, only

> for

> parents of the residential students at that specific deaf school. (They

> politely but firmly told me I was unwelcome.) The local state resource

> (Taconic

> Resources) is quite limited in what they will offer, and again, your child

> has

> to meet some benchmarks of delay or need before they will do more than

> answer

> a few questions over the phone. For them, Ian isn't " deaf enough " yet to

> warrant their support.

>

> I think Westchester is not quite the norm for NY as a state because it has

>

> so many resources close together as well as more organized public health

> services. I wish it were the norm! Plus it is so close to NYC and so much

> of its

> population works in the city. We simply expected quality health care when

> we

> lived there and we got it. The benefits of being a well-populated (and in

> parts very wealthy) county.

>

> Moving up here was an eye opener! It's so close, yet so far -- cliche but

> true.

>

> Best -- Jill

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It depends on the state. The integrated preschool we were offered had 3

teachers and 18 kids.

Which is the minimum staffing mandated by NYState. This was yet another

reason why

we stayed with the private preschool.

>

> Ok, I just found out that the public preschool they are offering has a

> 2:17 ratio in the 3 year old class.

>

> Is there anything about class size in the laws?

>

> Tawnya

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It is 1 teacher to 6 kids at that age. I have a preschooler here in NYState,

so I know this stuff :-)

[Guest guest]

No, Elias does not have a TOD. He doesn't even have " hearing impaired " on

his IEP.

The school district won't put usage of the FM system (which we own) or the

hearing aids

in his IEP. Remember, when he went into the system, we didn't know for sure

that he had hearing impairment, and he was primarily classified according to

the cancer dx.

I was told by the speech therapist, who is from our district, that I would

get a lot of

resistance from the committee on the TOD issue unless I had good evidence of

need. So I don't want to ask for the TOD until I have something in hand, an

evaluation,

or something. The speech therapist works with other hearing impaired kids

who

don't have TODs. I guess they are really hard to find here or something, so

the

district doesn't like to put those services into the IEP.

Elias has his first Late Effects consult at MSKCC in November. Since hearing

loss is one of the main late effects of neuroblastoma treatment, I am hoping

that

the Late Effects doctor can refer us to someone. I have heard he likes to

send

kids to NYU for neuropsych evals - but Elias doesn't really need that so

much.

Bonnie

>

>

> The person who fills this role for us is Ian's TOD, who is provided

> through

> BOCES. I developed a relationship with her one-to-one by exchanging notes

> at

> first, and later phone calls about what Ian needed and how I could work

> with

> him. Not at the IEP meetings and not through official channels. It

> developed

> as she worked with our son.

>

> Does Elias have a TOD meeting and working with him? If not, I would

> request

> that be added to his services. One of the moms here said that the SLP is

> in

> charge of how language comes out of our kids. A TOD is who gets it into

> them in

> the first place. (Or something close to that.) So it sounds to me like

> what

> you are wanting/needing is a TOD.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You can certainly call and ask, but unless your state

requires that all children--disabled or not--attend

preschool, preschool itself does not fall under FAPE.

Before starting Kindergarten, the public school system

is only required to give therapy and other services to

make sure that your child is ready for Kindergarten.

If they provide a public preschool class to get him

caught up in academics, that may be considered a

" reasonable " accommodation, and you would have to

choose between that and paying for a private school

out of pocket. Kindergartners really just need an

ability to communicate with the people around them,

and some basic social skills.

Except in a few areas where public education is seen

as completely failing, public schools are not required

to pay for children to attend private school, unless

the parents can prove that the public school system

cannot satisfy the child's needs. The concept of

" better " is not important here--just " appropriate. "

Kiminy

--- The Archers tndarcher@...> wrote:

> Thanks!!

>

> I really just want to call someone to ask if it is

> ok to not pay for private preschool, since there is

> not a " quality " public preschool available.

>

> This is so confusing!!

>

> Tawnya

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I thought that the law said that they had to provide literacy and numeracy from

ages 3 and up.

Our district already paid for Ian to go to a private preschool, which ended up

being too much of a commute. So that is where alot of my confusion comes from.

Tawnya

Re: Preschool update

You can certainly call and ask, but unless your state

requires that all children--disabled or not--attend

preschool, preschool itself does not fall under FAPE.

Before starting Kindergarten, the public school system

is only required to give therapy and other services to

make sure that your child is ready for Kindergarten.

If they provide a public preschool class to get him

caught up in academics, that may be considered a

" reasonable " accommodation, and you would have to

choose between that and paying for a private school

out of pocket. Kindergartners really just need an

ability to communicate with the people around them,

and some basic social skills.

Except in a few areas where public education is seen

as completely failing, public schools are not required

to pay for children to attend private school, unless

the parents can prove that the public school system

cannot satisfy the child's needs. The concept of

" better " is not important here--just " appropriate. "

Kiminy

--- The Archers tndarcher@...> wrote:

> Thanks!!

>

> I really just want to call someone to ask if it is

> ok to not pay for private preschool, since there is

> not a " quality " public preschool available.

>

> This is so confusing!!

>

> Tawnya

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/6/2006 8:27:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

bkmackellar@... writes:

It is 1 teacher to 6 kids at that age. I have a preschooler here in NYState,

so I know this stuff :-)

Thanks! (grin)