Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Hi all, So I am gearing up for Ian's first IEP meeting. He is turning 3 in October. So what his TOD said, was that if I wanted the district to pay for preschool, I have to chose the TC school, or a School for the Deaf. When I told her that driving him to these schools which are at least an hour away, with no traffic, she said they would bus him. So my issue with this is, that Ian is Oral. And we aren't being given an Oral option. The preschool we would like him to go to, with pull out speech, is less than $200 per month. The TC school is over $90 PER DAY, before transportation. The other option is a communicatively delayed preschool. The kids there speak less than 50 words. Ian has way more words than that, and mainly needs articulation help. So they say that most likely he won't " qualify " for that. So am I being unreasonable by not changing our communication method to fit the school? I want to be prepared for this for the meeting. So any help is greatly appreciated. Tawnya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Tawnya - the " I " in IEP stands for individualized - the school can't dictate to you what communication method to use. Hopefully or perhaps Jill can chime in here but this is ridiculous! You're not being at all unreasonable. Barbara The Archers wrote: > Hi all, > > So I am gearing up for Ian's first IEP meeting. He is turning 3 in October. So what his TOD said, was that if I wanted the district to pay for preschool, I have to chose the TC school, or a School for the Deaf. When I told her that driving him to these schools which are at least an hour away, with no traffic, she said they would bus him. > > So my issue with this is, that Ian is Oral. And we aren't being given an Oral option. The preschool we would like him to go to, with pull out speech, is less than $200 per month. The TC school is over $90 PER DAY, before transportation. > > The other option is a communicatively delayed preschool. The kids there speak less than 50 words. Ian has way more words than that, and mainly needs articulation help. So they say that most likely he won't " qualify " for that. > > So am I being unreasonable by not changing our communication method to fit the school? > > I want to be prepared for this for the meeting. So any help is greatly appreciated. > > Tawnya > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Thanks Barbara. I just need to figure out the " language " to get what I want!!! So they should provide some type of oral preschool? Even if it is mainstream? Tawnya Re: Again, with the preschool Tawnya - the " I " in IEP stands for individualized - the school can't dictate to you what communication method to use. Hopefully or perhaps Jill can chime in here but this is ridiculous! You're not being at all unreasonable. Barbara The Archers wrote: > Hi all, > > So I am gearing up for Ian's first IEP meeting. He is turning 3 in October. So what his TOD said, was that if I wanted the district to pay for preschool, I have to chose the TC school, or a School for the Deaf. When I told her that driving him to these schools which are at least an hour away, with no traffic, she said they would bus him. > > So my issue with this is, that Ian is Oral. And we aren't being given an Oral option. The preschool we would like him to go to, with pull out speech, is less than $200 per month. The TC school is over $90 PER DAY, before transportation. > > The other option is a communicatively delayed preschool. The kids there speak less than 50 words. Ian has way more words than that, and mainly needs articulation help. So they say that most likely he won't " qualify " for that. > > So am I being unreasonable by not changing our communication method to fit the school? > > I want to be prepared for this for the meeting. So any help is greatly appreciated. > > Tawnya > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Yeah, I'd say so. Jill and (the attorney) are better equipped to answer this since I've had relatively smooth sailing up to this point (knock on wood). they can't dictate to you how to communicate with your child... Barbara The Archers wrote: > Thanks Barbara. I just need to figure out the " language " to get what I want!!! > > So they should provide some type of oral preschool? Even if it is mainstream? > > Tawnya > > Re: Again, with the preschool > > > Tawnya - the " I " in IEP stands for individualized - the school can't > dictate to you what communication method to use. Hopefully or > perhaps Jill can chime in here but this is ridiculous! You're not being > at all unreasonable. > > Barbara > > The Archers wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > So I am gearing up for Ian's first IEP meeting. He is turning 3 in October. So what his TOD said, was that if I wanted the district to pay for preschool, I have to chose the TC school, or a School for the Deaf. When I told her that driving him to these schools which are at least an hour away, with no traffic, she said they would bus him. > > > > So my issue with this is, that Ian is Oral. And we aren't being given an Oral option. The preschool we would like him to go to, with pull out speech, is less than $200 per month. The TC school is over $90 PER DAY, before transportation. > > > > The other option is a communicatively delayed preschool. The kids there speak less than 50 words. Ian has way more words than that, and mainly needs articulation help. So they say that most likely he won't " qualify " for that. > > > > So am I being unreasonable by not changing our communication method to fit the school? > > > > I want to be prepared for this for the meeting. So any help is greatly appreciated. > > > > Tawnya > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Unfortunately I don't have any answers for you. But I can offer that you are not alone! I have just learned that the preschool that will start on Tuesday (he will be 3 in November and is in the Toddler program for the fall) may be changing their structure. I had been told that they always have one Oral and one TC class, but the new director favors TC. SO, since 's IEP will be in October, I too want to be ready to make sure they are giving him what he needs, which is an Oral preschool program. is similar to Ian - his main issue is articulation, he already has a huge vocabulary. Is the preschool you want Ian to go to a mainstream preschool? Is that the issue they have with it? Sherry Re: Again, with the preschool Tawnya - the " I " in IEP stands for individualized - the school can't dictate to you what communication method to use. Hopefully or perhaps Jill can chime in here but this is ridiculous! You're not being at all unreasonable. Barbara The Archers wrote: > Hi all, > > So I am gearing up for Ian's first IEP meeting. He is turning 3 in October. So what his TOD said, was that if I wanted the district to pay for preschool, I have to chose the TC school, or a School for the Deaf. When I told her that driving him to these schools which are at least an hour away, with no traffic, she said they would bus him. > > So my issue with this is, that Ian is Oral. And we aren't being given an Oral option. The preschool we would like him to go to, with pull out speech, is less than $200 per month. The TC school is over $90 PER DAY, before transportation. > > The other option is a communicatively delayed preschool. The kids there speak less than 50 words. Ian has way more words than that, and mainly needs articulation help. So they say that most likely he won't " qualify " for that. > > So am I being unreasonable by not changing our communication method to fit the school? > > I want to be prepared for this for the meeting. So any help is greatly appreciated. > > Tawnya > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Yes, it is a mainstream. They are offering a TC preschool, or a special ed preschool. So neither really fit. And the TC is VERY expensive because they want to bus him there. He will be going to mainstream Kindergarten, so why not a mainstream preschool, even a public one. I just think he needs it to be ready for Kindergarten. As does his ST. Tawnya Re: Again, with the preschool Tawnya - the " I " in IEP stands for individualized - the school can't dictate to you what communication method to use. Hopefully or perhaps Jill can chime in here but this is ridiculous! You're not being at all unreasonable. Barbara The Archers wrote: > Hi all, > > So I am gearing up for Ian's first IEP meeting. He is turning 3 in October. So what his TOD said, was that if I wanted the district to pay for preschool, I have to chose the TC school, or a School for the Deaf. When I told her that driving him to these schools which are at least an hour away, with no traffic, she said they would bus him. > > So my issue with this is, that Ian is Oral. And we aren't being given an Oral option. The preschool we would like him to go to, with pull out speech, is less than $200 per month. The TC school is over $90 PER DAY, before transportation. > > The other option is a communicatively delayed preschool. The kids there speak less than 50 words. Ian has way more words than that, and mainly needs articulation help. So they say that most likely he won't " qualify " for that. > > So am I being unreasonable by not changing our communication method to fit the school? > > I want to be prepared for this for the meeting. So any help is greatly appreciated. > > Tawnya > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Sounds like the parents of the kids who need oral need to start working together to prevent the oral option from disappearing. In NC a group of parents and professionals actually got the state schools for the deaf to offer an oral option for preschool - prior to that it was all TC. Beginnings also has some information on their website that showed the percentages of parents who wanted TC v. Oral. So the director's personal " favor " shouldn't decide the options available to your child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 If he qualifies for preschool services, and all they have is TC, the argument you need to make is that he needs an ORAL language rich classroom with good language models (ie hearing kids). If they have an oral preschool program, you just ask for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 They don't. So mainstream should be what they offer, right? And I am not sure what would make him qualify for preschool services?! Tawnya Re: Again, with the preschool If he qualifies for preschool services, and all they have is TC, the argument you need to make is that he needs an ORAL language rich classroom with good language models (ie hearing kids). If they have an oral preschool program, you just ask for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Ok the law states that they must provide him with a free appropriate education, if he is oral then a TC preschool is not an appropriate placemant. Also it states that services must be delivered in the lest restrictive enviornment for that child, If he's oral then a TC program is restritive to him. If they do not have an oral program already in place and he qualifies for services, ie speech, and he needs the preschool placement, then they must provde him with an appropriate preschool (obviously not a TC preschool since this isn't appropraite) placement with at least speech pullout. Not sure if I'm makeing much sense, i know i have a website here that give you leagal answers to crap the professionals try to pull at IEPs, if i can find it I will post it. I've found i get further if I can show them that I know my childs rights and which law suppoerts me. Cause No one wants a legal battle on thier hands!!!!!!! Selena --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 http://www.listen-up.org/rights2/quotes.htm I'm thinking this page might help you out in knowing how to get them hear what you are saying. Hope it helps. Selena --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Thanks Selena, I appreciate it. Tawnya Re: Again, with the preschool http://www.listen-up.org/rights2/quotes.htm I'm thinking this page might help you out in knowing how to get them hear what you are saying. Hope it helps. Selena --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 In a message dated 9/2/2006 12:32:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tndarcher@... writes: To me, this is saying, yes, you can have an oral deaf school, or the preschool that he has to " qualify " for. That school is $90 per day and nearly 2 hours from us. Let me know what you guys think of this. Thanks! Tawnya Tawnya, I am late coming into this thread, so I may not have it all clear or right, we were gone for almost 3 weeks so I am playing catch-up. Okay ... first, I have to loudly agree with everyone who has said this -- YOU pick the communication mode for your child, not the district. That means that you do NOT have to choose from what programs or services they happen to have available. If your child signs, then they must arrange to support the signing modality YOU chose. If your child is oral, then they must find supports for that. It is their job to do this, they are NOT doing you favors by providing what your child needs. The people in our district liked to act as though getting a TOD for Ian was a great favor and they were going far and above the call of duty by doing this. Wrong. Our Ian needs a TOD in order to function in the mainstream setting. That's what he needs so that's what he gets. If he needed an interpreter, then they would have to provide one. Being mainstreamed is Ian's LRE so the supports he needs have to be provided. < > This sounds like three potential placements to me: 1) a mainstreamed setting, which is in the regular public schools where most of the local kids attend, 2) a TC program, and 3) the spec ed preschool. My understanding is that being mainstreamed is not being placed within a TC or any other specialized program which has specially trained staff. Here in NY if the placement is within the regular school and specialized teachers are included in the classroom staff, the placement is called an " inclusion class. " The majority of the kids in those classrooms have no special needs and there is a legal limit as to the number of classified kids who can be placed within that classroom and still be considered a mainstream classroom. (I believe the ration is 8 out of 24) Our Ian is fully mainstreamed and he is not categorized as one of the kids who needs to be placed in inclusion classes. He receives no specialized academic support except the services of his TOD. However, because he is classified, his presence in a classroom still sets of alarms if the ratio of regular/inclusion kids is being considered. Your description of their program does not sound like what I understand a mainstream program to be. But it is definitely possible that I am misunderstanding how the program is structured. Plus, the definition of " mainstream " may be different there. < > You ST is recommending a mainstream environment for some very good reasons. Have her write you a detailed letter explaining this recommendation. It should help clarify the details for you as a parents and it is also very useful to give the district when making your request for a specific placement From what I can tell from this thread, neither of the options being offered is a correct fit for your child -- not what you are asking for. You are requesting that he be mainstreamed with appropriate support, yes? Going on that assumption, my question is whether there is a public preschool in your district. Our school district runs a pre-K for 4 year-olds who have been identified as having specialized needs. There is nothing " public " for 3-year-olds close to us. The only public program we have available is run by a local hospital and is only for kids with proven " communication problems. " It is a 40+ minute drive each way for us to that hospital's settings. So while it's in our county and therefore considered local, it is not close to us. Other than that, every preschool in the area is a private one. So, my question for you is: what public preschools are available? Just the two mentioned -- the ones that don't fit your needs? If that is the case, then you would need to argue that neither is the appropriate LRE for your son. Schools place kids into private settings all the time in order to address their specific needs. You can request this, but I'm not sure if they have to provide it at this age. I never had the pleasure/torture of dealing with any EI programs. (We found out about our Ian's loss in 2nd grade) I'm afraid that the responsibility is going to fall to you to find the pre-K program you want for Ian. It sounds like they have what they have and are saying a version of " take it or leave it, it's what we've got. " Since Ian is pre-school, not regular school yet, I think it's harder to get what he needs simply because there isn't public pre-school available to everyone. The programs are designed to meet the most common needs they (the state or school district) encounter. You mentioned him needing to qualify for one of the programs. As you know, that simply means you have to prove he has a disability in need of support. But because it is preschool, he is not entitled to FAPE (Free Appropriate Public Education) just yet. There is no free public education at that age. (someone who knows the law better, please chime in here) The public preschool programs are only for kids whose needs reach a certain benchmark. Can you demonstrate a need? (I have no clue what his test results were -- if you mentioned them, I missed that post, sorry) I would argue that based on his physical disability (his hearing loss) he will probably need support all through school so they should continue to provide it at the appropriate level now even if he doesn't qualify based on the testing. It is much easier to maintain his level of success that to try and play catch-up later on when/if he starts to fall behind. (I always said " when " not " if " in these meetings just to push the point.) Also, private nursery schools are much less expensive. I think Ian's preschool was $120 or $150 a month (that was 10 years ago). Whatever the costs are now, I'm sure they are much less expensive than the programs you've mentioned. I would try to justify the need based on Ian's need to be with children whose language skills are " normal " as proper examples of speech and language development for him. The district could easily continue to provide private SLP services to Ian one-on-one at your home instead of within the school setting. What I'd do... after the kids are in bed and I have some quiet, I'd pour a cup of tea, relax and write out what I think would be the perfect setting for Ian. The dream setting of what we think would be best for him. Then I'd look at it with a colder eye and see how much of it is do-able. How could it be accomplished given what I know of what's available to us? And from there I'd set my goals. Perhaps the best thing for Ian is for you guys just to send him to a local pre-school where he'll meet and develop friendships with the kids who are going to be with him in Kindergarten. And keep the SLP services coming to the house for private instruction. The one other D/HOH in our district had SLP services at home in the afternoons while the boy went to the AM Kindergarten classes. There was never any SLP services provided during school hours. That sounds like what you may be wanting for your Ian. It's really supposed to be based on the child's needs, not what readily available program they can stick him into. Sorry if this is a bit rambling. I'm afraid I'm not quite focused yet. Best -- Jill PS: You guys should see the mail bin (yes a US Mail bin!) sitting next to me with all our mail. The lady at the post office brought out the mail in this plastic bin and suggested that I borrow it until Monday since I hadn't brought a bag or box to carry our huge collection of mail. Who knew there'd be so much! And it's not even Christmas with the catalog deluge. The kids and hubby dug out their school stuff first and I am going to dive into the rest of that stack next. Oy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 This varies from state to state. In GA they have to be 1 SD below the mean on a language related standardized test. The language of the statute and regulation are vague and do not include the 1 SD measure - it's kind of tricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 In a message dated 9/1/2006 7:56:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, lill_tinkerbelle@... writes: Ok the law states that they must provide him with a free appropriate education Here there is a touch of a problem in just demanding that a district follow FAPE (and I admittedly don't know the laws well enough when it comes to the pre-school age group). From what I understand, kids in this country are not entitled to FAPE until they reach school age. The programs made available for preschool kids who have been identified early fall under different portions of the laws, and those laws may vary from state to state. Getting early intervention services depends on demonstrating a specific need and services are awarded based on those proven needs. Simply being deaf isn't a need until reaching school age, then it's a legally defined disability. I can easily go in and use FAPE to argue for my Ian's needs because he is school age and was from the time we identified his hearing loss. But preschool is not provided for every American child, so it's not part of the public school system. In fact, Kindergarten isn't mandatory. If a school budget goes down in flames, the districts have the option to close their Kindergarten programs if they must in order to function within their austerity budget. So, I'd use FAPE to argue about a pre-schoolers coming needs, but I don't think that it carries the same kind of weight when considering pre-schoolers. Still, if a kid has been receiving EI services, then a need has been established. I'd just go easy on throwing FAPE around unless I made sure it was applicable for the preschool age group. Around here IEPs are for school age kids, there's another acronym for the pre-schoolers (It has an F in it and right now I can't remember it.) Anyway ... my caution here is to double check the FAPE rules as they apply to pre-school before using it as part of the justification for getting services. When I quoted it, I don't remember those parts of the law as mentioning preschool settings. Best -- Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 If he qualifies for preschool services yes. My Hailey attends a community based preschool with speech pull out at the special education department's expense. Hailey needs to be in a community based preschool because she lacks social skills with non disabled peers. So, if your child qualifies for preschool services the school must provide them. Now if your child only qualifies for speech then the school can argue that that can be provided outside of a preschool setting, and it can. So if you really want your child to be in preschool ( and have the school pay for it) but they don't qualify for preschool services and the school is offering a preschool placement that may not be exacttly what you want, you may still want to consider it. Now i belive the issues with them was that the preschool option they were getting from the school was one for a Total communication preschool, and thier child is oral. Hailey is mainly oral, at times she uses sign. Aside from her 3 days at community preschool she atttends 2 days at the hearing imparied preschool ( they use TC). Even though she is oral we haven't found the fact that it's a TC preschool to impare her gaining speech skills. In fact I belive it has helped. Her knowledge of sign has enabled her to figure out what sound they are trying to get her to recreate, and also when she is trying to figure out what someone has said to her. Like this moring, i told her mommy was going to take a shower, she looked at me funny then signed " s " ? or " h " ? I signed " s " , she said oh shower, I thought you said hour. She can't hear the s sound so she's learned that she can use the sign to help aide her understanding. Not all kids need that, but still it sure is a nice trick to have in your bag to pull out when ya need it. Selena Mom to 8, 7, 7, 5 ( all with diffrent specail need sbut all hearing) and Hailey 4 ( bilateral moderate -severe, sensori-neural progressive hearing loss, bilaterally aided) --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 I just don't get the " qualifying " for preschool. They have to provide him " literacy and numeracy " , but only if he doesn't speak well enough? This is the email I got from her: " HI Tawnya, By " Oral " preschool, do you mean only for deaf children? IF so, the only one in the Bay Area is Jean Weingarten. IF you mean " oral " as a preschool where people speak English as the means of communication, then our district preschool classes use this means of communication. To qualify for our preschools, a student must qualify with scores on standardized testing. Cathy , the preschool coordinator/teacher could better address the criteria than me. You can reach her viz the sasme e-mail formula as mine: Did you receive your preschool packet from Cathy? You will need to complete it before Ian's assessment. Thanks. " To me, this is saying, yes, you can have an oral deaf school, or the preschool that he has to " qualify " for. That school is $90 per day and nearly 2 hours from us. Let me know what you guys think of this. Thanks! Tawnya Re: Again, with the preschool If he qualifies for preschool services yes. My Hailey attends a community based preschool with speech pull out at the special education department's expense. Hailey needs to be in a community based preschool because she lacks social skills with non disabled peers. So, if your child qualifies for preschool services the school must provide them. Now if your child only qualifies for speech then the school can argue that that can be provided outside of a preschool setting, and it can. So if you really want your child to be in preschool ( and have the school pay for it) but they don't qualify for preschool services and the school is offering a preschool placement that may not be exacttly what you want, you may still want to consider it. Now i belive the issues with them was that the preschool option they were getting from the school was one for a Total communication preschool, and thier child is oral. Hailey is mainly oral, at times she uses sign. Aside from her 3 days at community preschool she atttends 2 days at the hearing imparied preschool ( they use TC). Even though she is oral we haven't found the fact that it's a TC preschool to impare her gaining speech skills. In fact I belive it has helped. Her knowledge of sign has enabled her to figure out what sound they are trying to get her to recreate, and also when she is trying to figure out what someone has said to her. Like this moring, i told her mommy was going to take a shower, she looked at me funny then signed " s " ? or " h " ? I signed " s " , she said oh shower, I thought you said hour. She can't hear the s sound so she's learned that she can use the sign to help aide her understanding. Not all kids need that, but still it sure is a nice trick to have in your bag to pull out when ya need it. Selena Mom to 8, 7, 7, 5 ( all with diffrent specail need sbut all hearing) and Hailey 4 ( bilateral moderate -severe, sensori-neural progressive hearing loss, bilaterally aided) --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Maybe we're spoiled in Spokane, WA, but our options and the support have been fabulous! When was a baby, we had a parent/infant specialist work with us every week until he was 3. Before his implant, she taught us sign in context. After his implant, she worked on teaching us how to optimize our communication with him. I live in a great school district (I also teach in this district) and they have 3 " magnet " schools for the deaf and HH kids in the area. started out there for his 1st yr. of preschool. He was provided with pullout and inclusion with an SLP and teacher of deaf. His second year, they created a HI preschool program. There were 2 kids with implants and one with hearing aids. The teachers were a teacher of the deaf and an SLP and the aid was an interpreter, but she didn't sign with them. They really worked on language rich experiences while providing the regular preschool skills. In addition, in Spokane, some people got together and opened a private preschool for HI kids. It's been very successful. We didn't go because I work and there was no way for us to get there. THis year enters kindergarten. He will be at his home school in a general ed. classroom. They will provide him with a hearing specialist in his classroom, just for him, for part of his day at least until Nov. In addition, he will receive in class and pull out speech. The district also purchased personal FM systems for all the kids in the preschool which will follow throughout the district. I have been VERY happy because they have been very proactive. It's costing them a lot of money, but they realized that there was enough of a need in this community for this option. You're in charge as the parent. The law is on your side and you need to fight for what you feel is right for your child. If you want oral, they need to provide oral. There are people out there who will provide you with the support and resources you need. Talk to the SLPs and ENTs and other parents. Make some noise! And pray. Sounds like Ian needs to be in a regular preschool program with some special services. Check the laws in your state and well as IDEA, but your son doesn't belong in a " special " preschool with special ed. children. It wouldn't provide him with what HE needs. Good luck! And let us know what happens! > > Hi all, > > > > So I am gearing up for Ian's first IEP meeting. He is turning 3 in October. So what his TOD said, was that if I wanted the district to pay for preschool, I have to chose the TC school, or a School for the Deaf. When I told her that driving him to these schools which are at least an hour away, with no traffic, she said they would bus him. > > > > So my issue with this is, that Ian is Oral. And we aren't being given an Oral option. The preschool we would like him to go to, with pull out speech, is less than $200 per month. The TC school is over $90 PER DAY, before transportation. > > > > The other option is a communicatively delayed preschool. The kids there speak less than 50 words. Ian has way more words than that, and mainly needs articulation help. So they say that most likely he won't " qualify " for that. > > > > So am I being unreasonable by not changing our communication method to fit the school? > > > > I want to be prepared for this for the meeting. So any help is greatly appreciated. > > > > Tawnya > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Our son qualified for JumpStart preschool, at our local elementary school, for the two years prior to his official entry into Kindergarten. We chose not to do that. He was receiving speech therapy services through the public school system during those two years, but the public preschool option was a morning-only program. Since my husband and I both worked full-time, we had to pay for full-time daycare anyway, so we paid to enroll him in a private preschool during those two years. The school system did bus him from the preschool to the elementary school for speech services, though. As someone else pointed out, FAPE does not take effect until whatever grade the state you are in starts requiring free education for all children--usually Kindergarten. The school system may provide prepatory services, like speech and language therapy, to prevent the the child from starting off school too far behind, but in most states, preschool is provided only on an as-needed basis, usually to kids who are behind their same-age peers because of disabilities, income, or other qualifications. Most kids with IEPs between the age of 3 and 5 do qualify, from what I understand, but it's often on a take-it-or-leave-it basis, since it is not offered to all students. Kiminy --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 As I read more, that's what I'm thinking too. That's what was done for my boys - they were in " regular " preschool but with speech/language visits. It worked well for them both. snbtools wrote: > > Sounds like Ian needs to be in a regular preschool program with some > special services. Check the laws in your state and well as IDEA, > but your son doesn't belong in a " special " preschool with special > ed. children. It wouldn't provide him with what HE needs. > > Good luck! And let us know what happens! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 I think she is saying that she thinks their special ed preschools qualify as " oral " because they use spoken language there. (sounds like they are not special ed preschools specifically for children with hearing loss.)I don't think she is saying take your pick between Jean Weingarten and the district's special ed preschools but I could be wrong. Re: Again, with the preschool > >I just don't get the " qualifying " for preschool. They have to provide him " literacy and numeracy " , but only if he doesn't speak well enough? > >This is the email I got from her: > " HI Tawnya, >By " Oral " preschool, do you mean only for deaf children? IF so, the only one in the Bay Area is Jean Weingarten. IF you mean " oral " as a preschool where people speak English as the means of communication, then our district preschool classes use this means of communication. To qualify for our preschools, a student must qualify with scores on standardized testing. Cathy , the preschool coordinator/teacher could better address the criteria than me. You can reach her viz the sasme e-mail formula as mine: Did you receive your preschool packet from Cathy? You will need to complete it before Ian's assessment. Thanks. " > >To me, this is saying, yes, you can have an oral deaf school, or the preschool that he has to " qualify " for. That school is $90 per day and nearly 2 hours from us. > >Let me know what you guys think of this. > >Thanks! >Tawnya > > > Re: Again, with the preschool > > > If he qualifies for preschool services yes. My Hailey attends a community based preschool with speech pull out at the special education department's expense. Hailey needs to be in a community based preschool because she lacks social skills with non disabled peers. So, if your child qualifies for preschool services the school must provide them. Now if your child only qualifies for speech then the school can argue that that can be provided outside of a preschool setting, and it can. So if you really want your child to be in preschool ( and have the school pay for it) but they don't qualify for preschool services and the school is offering a preschool placement that may not be exacttly what you want, you may still want to consider it. Now i belive the issues with them was that the preschool option they were getting from the school was one for a Total communication preschool, and thier child is oral. Hailey is mainly oral, at times she uses sign. Aside from her 3 days at > community preschool she atttends 2 days at the hearing imparied preschool ( they use TC). Even though she is oral we haven't found the fact that it's a TC preschool to impare her gaining speech skills. In fact I belive it has helped. Her knowledge of sign has enabled her to figure out what sound they are trying to get her to recreate, and also when she is trying to figure out what someone has said to her. Like this moring, i told her mommy was going to take a shower, she looked at me funny then signed " s " ? or " h " ? I signed " s " , she said oh shower, I thought you said hour. She can't hear the s sound so she's learned that she can use the sign to help aide her understanding. Not all kids need that, but still it sure is a nice trick to have in your bag to pull out when ya need it. > > > Selena > Mom to 8, 7, 7, 5 ( all with diffrent specail need sbut all hearing) and Hailey 4 ( bilateral moderate -severe, sensori-neural progressive hearing loss, bilaterally aided) > > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Hi Tawnya, I have a lot of things floating in my head right now. I'm hoping that what I type makes sense. Every state has different requirements for preschool placements in school systems. Many seems to rely on a measure of delays to see if the child qualifies. Preschool provided by school districts (free) is not guarenteed to every child with a disablity, and just because a child has recieved EI services does not mean they will be automatcially admitted to a " free " preschool. EI's purpose to to catch a child up to speed as early as possible. The sooner the better kind of thing. If Ian has caught up and is age appropriate, you may have to argue for a preschool placement. They may still continue to offer you speech services, but you will probably be responsible for transporting him to your local school for that, as I understand that the laws governing this has changed. You can however place him in any private run preschool that you choose....you just have to pay for it ( As for the letter you received, it seems as if she is looking for clarification on what you mean by an Oral preschool, not that he will attend either of them. Are you looking for him to attend the Oral school that she mentions? They may have certain criteria for him to be admitted there. I'm understanding that this school is actually a private school for oral deaf children. Is this correct? The other one mentioned is the school districts preschool and she is saying that he will need to complete an assesment before they can tell if he will qualify. What I believe I'm understanding from you is that you would like Ian to be in a preschool with normally developing children. If Ian does qualify for preschool, you might be able to get your district to place him in one....but not a guarentee. If you push for an Oral school they may place him in JW, and I think I'm understanding from you that it's quite a distance away. I know that you've mentioned that the " free " preschool is a multi-category one...meaning they have children with varying disabilites attending. I know that it sounds like a bad fit, but have you had the chance to visit it? The reason I ask is becuase this is the type of preschool that attended. Out of the 10 kids there, 1 had several issues and was by far they most disabled child in the class. The other kids that attended were there for either OT or PT reasons, speech delays, or because of coming from a low socio-economic background. had the largest speech delay as we had just discovered her hearing loss and had only been aided for three months. It was a language rich environment and they worked so well with . also had the services of a HI three times a week and had speech in class as well as being pulled out. When was in Kindergarten she was in the inclusion class. As Jill mentioned, this is a regular kindergarten class that has a certain number of children in it who are classified. To anyone else who may have dropped by, you've never been able to tell. I knew it was, even though I had never been told, because I knew the children who recieved services. I hope that helps. If I've only succeeded in confusing, I applogize. Debbie The Archers tndarcher@...> wrote: I just don't get the " qualifying " for preschool. They have to provide him " literacy and numeracy " , but only if he doesn't speak well enough? This is the email I got from her: " HI Tawnya, By " Oral " preschool, do you mean only for deaf children? IF so, the only one in the Bay Area is Jean Weingarten. IF you mean " oral " as a preschool where people speak English as the means of communication, then our district preschool classes use this means of communication. To qualify for our preschools, a student must qualify with scores on standardized testing. Cathy , the preschool coordinator/teacher could better address the criteria than me. You can reach her viz the sasme e-mail formula as mine: Did you receive your preschool packet from Cathy? You will need to complete it before Ian's assessment. Thanks. " To me, this is saying, yes, you can have an oral deaf school, or the preschool that he has to " qualify " for. That school is $90 per day and nearly 2 hours from us. Let me know what you guys think of this. Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not. G.B Shaw --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Hi Tawnya, I have a lot of things floating in my head right now. I'm hoping that what I type makes sense. Every state has different requirements for preschool placements in school systems. Many seems to rely on a measure of delays to see if the child qualifies. Preschool provided by school districts (free) is not guarenteed to every child with a disablity, and just because a child has recieved EI services does not mean they will be automatcially admitted to a " free " preschool. EI's purpose to to catch a child up to speed as early as possible. The sooner the better kind of thing. If Ian has caught up and is age appropriate, you may have to argue for a preschool placement. They may still continue to offer you speech services, but you will probably be responsible for transporting him to your local school for that, as I understand that the laws governing this has changed. You can however place him in any private run preschool that you choose....you just have to pay for it ( As for the letter you received, it seems as if she is looking for clarification on what you mean by an Oral preschool, not that he will attend either of them. Are you looking for him to attend the Oral school that she mentions? They may have certain criteria for him to be admitted there. I'm understanding that this school is actually a private school for oral deaf children. Is this correct? The other one mentioned is the school districts preschool and she is saying that he will need to complete an assesment before they can tell if he will qualify. What I believe I'm understanding from you is that you would like Ian to be in a preschool with normally developing children. If Ian does qualify for preschool, you might be able to get your district to place him in one....but not a guarentee. If you push for an Oral school they may place him in JW, and I think I'm understanding from you that it's quite a distance away. I know that you've mentioned that the " free " preschool is a multi-category one...meaning they have children with varying disabilites attending. I know that it sounds like a bad fit, but have you had the chance to visit it? The reason I ask is becuase this is the type of preschool that attended. Out of the 10 kids there, 1 had several issues and was by far they most disabled child in the class. The other kids that attended were there for either OT or PT reasons, speech delays, or because of coming from a low socio-economic background. had the largest speech delay as we had just discovered her hearing loss and had only been aided for three months. It was a language rich environment and they worked so well with . also had the services of a HI three times a week and had speech in class as well as being pulled out. When was in Kindergarten she was in the inclusion class. As Jill mentioned, this is a regular kindergarten class that has a certain number of children in it who are classified. To anyone else who may have dropped by, you've never been able to tell. I knew it was, even though I had never been told, because I knew the children who recieved services. I hope that helps. If I've only succeeded in confusing, I applogize. Debbie The Archers tndarcher@...> wrote: I just don't get the " qualifying " for preschool. They have to provide him " literacy and numeracy " , but only if he doesn't speak well enough? This is the email I got from her: " HI Tawnya, By " Oral " preschool, do you mean only for deaf children? IF so, the only one in the Bay Area is Jean Weingarten. IF you mean " oral " as a preschool where people speak English as the means of communication, then our district preschool classes use this means of communication. To qualify for our preschools, a student must qualify with scores on standardized testing. Cathy , the preschool coordinator/teacher could better address the criteria than me. You can reach her viz the sasme e-mail formula as mine: Did you receive your preschool packet from Cathy? You will need to complete it before Ian's assessment. Thanks. " To me, this is saying, yes, you can have an oral deaf school, or the preschool that he has to " qualify " for. That school is $90 per day and nearly 2 hours from us. Let me know what you guys think of this. Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not. G.B Shaw --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Sorry I was just going by our State, Indiana. I work for the special education department here so I have a bit more knowledge then I'd like at times of what our laws are. IFSP's in Indiana are written until a child becomes 3. After that the responsiblity of special education becomes the public school districts responsiblity. So IEP's are wrriten for those children age 3 thru 22 who qualify for services under IDEA. So for children age 3 till they enter kindergarden FAPE still applies. I'm not saying it's that way for every state, but that's the way it works here. Selena --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 OK, i just reread that and i'm not sure i made sense. I'm tired it's been a really long day. I'll try to pull up the web page tomarrow with the law on it that talks about what I'm trying to say cause i'm not doing a very good job of it. Selena The very tired mom of 5, who spent her day teaching 3 kids to swim, giving rides on atvs, cooking hotdogs on campfires, saving kitty cats from a 4 yr old HOH child who doesn't yet understand what that noise is when she picks the cat up with a choke hold, and listening to a 33 yr old child who is way to excited over a college football game. I'm going to bed now!!!!!!!!! --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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