Re: VPK program, Ben's art

June 24, 2006

I've posted a snapshot of the picture he drew, so you can see what I mean. Look

under

SpongeBob Ben's album. Now I've seen lots of self-portraits from him with

smiles, etc. But

this one is most definitely different. Any votes on whether I'm reading

something into it?

Peace,

Kathy E.

>

> We are taking Ben out of the VPK program he was in this summer (that's

Voluntary Pre-

K,

> now available to every Floridian who is eligible to enter K in the fall). I

won't go into the

> whole mess, but I just wanted to mention that he came home last week with a

picture of

> himself with a piece of tape over his mouth. Given that he is probably

Asperger's or

HFA, and

> takes idioms literally, it tooks to me like somebody tried to shut him up by

threatening

to

> tape his mouth shut. Interesting after we take him to years of speech

therapy. Sort of

like

> worrying about obesity in adults and doing away with recess in school. It

also has his

name

> on it and a picture of a heart with a hole in it. He is always saying " I love

you, " to nearly

> everybody.

>

> We're sending in a note saying that we are withdrawing him from the program

because

the

> educational philosophy is apparently ineffective for him, and that he also

started to eat

again

> after he was absent for two days last week....

>

> His father thinks I am reading something into the picture that may not be

there. Well

how

> can he tell us if he thinks they will tape his mouth shut?

>

> Peace,

> Kathy E.

>

June 24, 2006

Hi. I am new to the list, am here while we are waiting for some testing

to be done with my grandaughter. So much info to absorb and such a

God-send of resources.

I taught Kindergarten in public school for 15 years, a couple also in

preK. Here are my thoughts just off the top of my head.

During the Ninja-turtle or whatever period of time that was, we saw lots

of figures that looked very similiar to your son's - but it was just

where they placed the bandana that was typically higher up. You didn't

say what age your child is, I am assumming 4? At any rate, that is a

very good px!

My second thought is to actually question the teacher IF you think this

is a good placement for your son. Did another child put tape over his

mouth at the art center maybe?? I had that happen many times in my

teaching experience! This was always in a class with no more than 20

children and a full-time paraprofessional.

My third thought is that if she did threaten to tape a child's mouth,

was this done in jest or something, although many parents might object

to even that. What I guess I mean is that if we had an emergency or

something happen in the classroom and I wanted everyone quiet

immediately, I would hold up my hand and then make a sign across my

mouth, which could look like taping a mouth closed, although all the

children knew it meant quiet for a second.

You just never know. We live in south Georgia and actually had a

hurricane come up from the coast (70 miles) - we had a frightful night

and no school the next day. When we had children draw pxs of what they

did the night before to help them express their feelings, one child drew

a wonderful px of the whole family in the bathtub. We always hung our

art out on the clothesline outside our door (we were on a porch wing)

because eveyone loved it so. So as my luck would have it that day, this

little girl was the first finished and as I was hanging hers out, her

mother walked up to pick her up early for a doctor's appointment and

within seconds, she was flying past me on the way to the Principal's

office. She thought that I was trying to " get her in trouble " with

family and children's services because they were all bathing together,

male and female, something along those lines. Anyway, it was so far

from what happened that it was mindblowing. So maybe you should at

least question her if you have liked other aspects of the program.

My last thought is that IF she did threaten your child or any other (if

your child is not speaking yet) AND then went on to send the px home,

she is not very bright.

Did she even see his px, or did possibly a helper take it up and think

nothing of it??

All questions I would want answered!!

Pam in Ga.

Kathleen Eickwort wrote:

>I've posted a snapshot of the picture he drew, so you can see what I mean. Look

under

>SpongeBob Ben's album. Now I've seen lots of self-portraits from him with

smiles, etc. But

>this one is most definitely different. Any votes on whether I'm reading

something into it?

>

>Peace,

>Kathy E.

>

June 24, 2006

>

> >I've posted a snapshot of the picture he drew, so you can see what I mean.

Look under

> >SpongeBob Ben's album. Now I've seen lots of self-portraits from him with

smiles, etc.

But

> >this one is most definitely different. Any votes on whether I'm reading

something into

it?

> >

> >Peace,

> >Kathy E.

> >

>

June 24, 2006

Kathy to me it looks like it could be a huge open mouth as well.

With little kid drawings you can always put your foot in your mouth

when you guess what something is. Dakota and Tanner at times drew

things that I had guessed were one thing and they told me were

something else. Tanner once drew a picture of a shark under the

water where a swimmer was near a boat. The swimmer had a look of

fear on his face. When I asked " Tanner is the swimmer afraid of the

shark " He said " No, they both just swimming "

Perhaps what you can do is get some clay and a bunch of objects he

can use with the clay including tape, scissors, toothpicks, cloth

etc. and " play " preschool. From what you talked to me about this

may not be the program for him anyway, regardless of whether they

threatened to tape his mouth shut or not.

=====

June 24, 2006

I thought about that, and tried to ask a non-leading question, but it was clear

he was

embarrassed about it. He said yes when I asked him if someone threatened to tape

his

mouth but of course that was a leading question. I guess it doesn't matter

anyway

because we had made the decision to withdraw the child before seeing the

picture. And he

started to eat normally, too. I am not going to wait, as I did with his father,

until the child

is so upset he is vomiting blood in the doctor's office. He is going to stay

with me in the

morning--the last two days we went swimming, once with his little friend

R'Montay, which

he really enjoyed, and the first day he made friends with a little girl on the

playground and

played with her for an hour. Those are obviously the kind of social skills we

would like him

to learn.

Peace,

Kathy E.

From what you talked to me about this

> may not be the program for him anyway, regardless of whether they

> threatened to tape his mouth shut or not.

>

> =====

>

June 24, 2006

FWIW my husband immediately said it looked like tape on a kid's mouth. I

didn't tell him anything else except show him the picture.

I think you have the right idea about this not being the program for him

even if this hadn't happened. You can have lots of good social experiences

without being in school this summer, it just takes a little more effort

sometimes.

Miche

At 03:51 PM 6/24/2006, you wrote:

>I thought about that, and tried to ask a non-leading question, but it was

>clear he was

>embarrassed about it. He said yes when I asked him if someone threatened

>to tape his

>mouth but of course that was a leading question. I guess it doesn't matter

>anyway

>because we had made the decision to withdraw the child before seeing the

>picture. And he

>started to eat normally, too. I am not going to wait, as I did with his

>father, until the child

>is so upset he is vomiting blood in the doctor's office. He is going to

>stay with me in the

>morning--the last two days we went swimming, once with his little friend

>R'Montay, which

>he really enjoyed, and the first day he made friends with a little girl on

>the playground and

>played with her for an hour. Those are obviously the kind of social skills

>we would like him

>to learn.

>

>Peace,

>Kathy E.

June 24, 2006

I agree Kathy. As I always say don't underestimate " normal " kid

stuff as great " therapy " for our kids too. Perhaps this summer try

to get him into a swimming or karate class. I had great success

with both of them since in both talking is optional. With karate

however check out the schools around you first and find one that is

sensitive to the needs of a child who may have some mild global

issues. Most schools don't know about apraxia, but I found if I

asked if they worked with any children with special needs the ones

that do know how to answer. The one I found for Tanner for example

in Berkeley Heights NJ would have a " shadow " that would float the

room but spend most of the time by those children that needed the

extra help. The awards, medals, ribbons, and public displays of

achievement were incredible boosts to Tanner, and Dakota, as they

would be for any child.

About bad things that could go on in the school there's been posts

far worse than threats to tape a mouth shut which could have been an

inappropriate jest. Tricia Morin's son story is below, and

Colette's child was locked in the bathroom with the lights out!

While we try to figure out a child's picture -below are two actual

horrible school situations:

" Morin Family " <morinfamily4@...>

noodlespookie

Mon Dec 8, 2003 11:19 pm

Re: prayers please for my son

and all.

The good news is that the school admitted that they strapped

to a

chair and put a wooden desk up against it so he couldn't move. (Are

these

people insane?). I was shocked when they admitted it. This is

exactly what

I wanted. Now I have the power. I am not sure what I am going to do

with

the information. I am for sure going to report it which will probably

promote an investigation. However, I don't know if I am going to

seek legal

action b/c that really won't help . I would much rather just

have

the power to call all the shots from here on out. From their

response to me

today, it sounds like they are treating it just like; I call the

shots on

all educational decisions about no matter how much money it

costs

the school. I hope that they deliver on this. Obviously he is never

setting foot back in that old classroom.

I bet heads are rolling at the school right now! It was awesome that

I had

an advocate with me. that was invaluable as she heard all this info,

!

, thank you so much for calling me. I called the ECAC in NC and

they

gave me just the info I needed! this was 15 minutes before I left

for my

IEP, talk about last minute!

Thanks for the prayers, they obviously worked. God carried me

through the

last 24 hours and that is what I asked of him. He literally carried

me!

Tricia

wrote:

Hi everyone,

I just spoke to Tricia -and her son was not restrained in the way we

typically think of it -holding down with hands, he was somehow tied

or belted down, unable to move -we don't know how long and her son

is now home.

Does anyone have information on the legalities and possible

explanation of the use of this type of restraint... for a 5 year old

child in Kindergarten? I mean I know there are reasons one would

use this restraint -but as reported in the archives -this is the

very school that sent home a conduct note due to her 5 year olds

child (who has DSI) " tapping his foot " during music class.

Can't argue with the archives -it's all in there. This school

sounds like a nightmare.

I've already forwarded to Tricia many of the posts from this group

being that this just came up.

For those that don't know who Tricia is -

You will really want to contact Tricia Morin from NC

morinfamily4@... morinfamily4 at nc.rr.com -she runs the

military parents support group (since she knows all about therapy on

military bases etc.) Tricia is also one of the moderators here at

CHERAB, and for Speechville.com, and co founded SPEAK of Missouri

(before she moved to NC!)

This link is about Tricia's son written by Hoffmann M.A., CCC-

SLP, President of the Missouri Speech Language Hearing Association

http://www.cherab.org/information/silentnomore.html

Reading that poem -I wonder what would say about this?! May

want to read this post from Tricia again which wasn't sent that long

ago either.

Hi All,

I want to let you know how much I appreciate all your messages and

support.

I wanted to answer a few questions and let you know what is going on.

My son was in a mainstream K-1 class in North Carolina when the

restraining

happened. He was put into a chair that was designed for children who

need

trunk support to eat. There is a waist belt and a tray that slides

on. I

don't know the make or model of the chair but am going to tell the

school I

want to see it, since I haven't felt emotionally ready until now.

When I

see it, I am going to get a snap shot or at least get the company

name and

model name for evidence. There is another kid in the class who has

an IEP

also and the chair was in this kid's behavioral plan. That is why

the chair

was even in that classroom. Staff decided to use it on my son. My son

actually has a behavioral plan in place too (for attention and focus

and

defiance, not for violence!). This chair is *not* part of my son's

behavioral plan. the funny thing is that ' behavioral plan

was made

with the specials teachers in mind (music, art, PE, etc) becuase the

general

ed teacher said she really did not have problems with my son.

the chair was used one time when my son was " running around the room

and we

were afraid he would hurt himself " . Running around the room is not a

reason

to restrain him. The other time the teacher gave him a choice you can

either do this or go in the time out chair. Well since my son is a

boundary

tester, he choose the chair (according to them). This was an

inappropriate

choice for them to offer him.

For the two instances that they used the chair, they did not notify

me

before or after the incidents.

On a slightly different topic, one day my son came home and told me

he had

been in the disabled preschool that day. I looked in his notebook and

nothing was written for the day at all. I called the teacher and she

said he

was running around the room and trying to get another student to

misbehave

with him. she said she was unable to teach the other students and she

wanted to break the cycle and give my son a change of scenery. This

was

totally illegal. Taking him to another room is not on his behavioral

plan.

This teacher just does whatever she wants and doesn't feel ice she

has to

ask permission or work with anyone. The school psychologist and OT

are

great and were totally disgusted when they found out about this

chair usage

and taking my son to a different classroom.

I am in the process of writing up a summary for a lawyer who is

supposed to

be awesome. He has an autistic child himself so he really gets it

and knows

his stuff. ! If anyone in NC wants his info, email me privately.

I have been told by pretty much everyone that I have the school by

the

+%$.<?( & $(*($_( since they admitted to all the allegations and I had

a

witness there and much of it is documented by them in their writing.

(How

dumb can you be?)

I am in the moral dilemma of figuring out what my demands should be.

One

issue being money of course. At first I did not want to sue for

money b/c I

don't like taking money away from the other special ed kids in the

district

plus this isn't about money. However, I am wondering about long term

psychological affects. I kept sending my son to school and he

pleaded not

to go. I kept telling him how great his teachers were and supported

them.

He was probably going nuts thinking that this nightmare would never

end.

Plus my husband wants to ask for money for therapy for any family

member b/c

I have not been well because of all the stress (My husband is

deployed

overseas for 4 months for the war effort too which isn't helping). It

stinks. I have lost a ton of weight and am just not in the best

shape. I

feel like I am on the upswing but am still getting help for myself.

I keep

telling myself that I need to stay strong for my kids since they

only have

one parent right now.

The worst thing about this is that the school is not being honest

with other

parents who are asking about the incident. They are trivializing it.

They

also are showing parents the chair with out the strap on like that

makes it

more offensive. Taking the strap off was a big mistake. It shows the

parents that the school is dishonest b/c their kid is telling the

parents

that " I saw the teacher put a kid in a chair with a strap and wooden

tray... " You know how it is, kids blab everything at their parents!

Plus,

it is illegal to be discussing my child at all with another family.

they

should say that they can't discuss this right now as it is between

them and

another family. I do however feel that families ahve the right to

know what

happened. I just have a real problem with the school telling people

that it

wasn't a big deal and lying about it.

Does anyone have input on money? I hate asking for money but feel it

will

just be a slap on the wrist other wise and this might happen to

another

child.

My son has been out of school for a week becuase of all of this. I

have been

using a babysitter quite a bit. I pay her well since she has

extensive

knowledge on how to deal effectively with . I just can't use

a teen

ager for babysitting since sis a boundary tester.

I wanted to get the advice of my lawyer before I make decisions

about who I

am going to tell (school board, media, etc).

Thanks again for the support. For the other family dealing with all

this,

my heart goes out to you. I will keep you on my prayer list. This is

a

horrible experience not only for the child but also for the family.

Tricia

Re: Extreme Situation/answer from Staci Greenwald Esq.

Answer from one of the CHERAB/Speechville professional advisors

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I hope you haven't sent your son back there. The district needs to

immediately find a new program. You should also file a complaint

investigation with the state department and ask for an investigation

by your school district as well. Clearly your child's IEP was being

violated but beyond that the program appears to be clearly

inappropriate. If you would like to discuss this further with me so

I can get some more specifics I would encourage you to call my

office. If I know more about the facts I can guide you more

appropriately.

staci greenwald

sussan & greenwald, esqs.

732-251-8585

www.special-ed-law.com

> Hi- I have a 4 year old with apraxia.

> My son has been attending a preschool handicapped program since

Jan 2002.

> (out of distict)

> On 2/21/03 a situation occurred in the classroom, in which my

husband and I

> felt was inappropriately handled. Not to rehash it-but I'm sure

some of you

> will remember that the teacher wrote me a note stating she placed

my son in

> a chair, in the bathroom, shut the lights and door. Not once but

2x's.

> So, of course I've never sent him back there and notified my

district to

> find another program for him.

> In this situation I chose to write letters informing of the

incident (of

> course with proof) to the State Dept. of Ed. in Trenton, both

school

> district Superintendants, and so forth.......Still awaiting a

response.....

> .

> I have spoken to a few mothers in which one told me of an

incident with

> her older child with this same teacher. 9 years ago the teacher

had this

> mothers down syndrome daughter-and the mother told me that some

down

> syndrome children have a problem that they can not control with

their tongue

> pretruding. Well, this teacher didn't like it and each time she

did it she

> but lemon juice on her tongue. I know I am cringing when I write

this.

> This mother informed me there was nothing that she could do-

heresay-nothing

> in writing. She did inform the teacher to stop doing it. And plus

her

> daughter was not verbal. Makes me sick. There is another

disturbing

> incident I know about-but will not share at this time.

> At least I am informing all these authorities of the teacher and

incident so

> if down the road, her name keeps appearing maybe there is

something that can

> be done.

>

> Now, my problem is my child is not in a program, being home

schooled until

> one can be found. It has been 7 weeks. The district is providing

his

> speech and ot as in accordance to his IEP. But no special ed

teacher; they

> say that they have been putting an ad out in the paper each week

for a

> special ed teacher-but no responses. (I know, you all must think

I'm an

> idiot) And yesterday, I called to see if they have any programs

lined up

> for me to see or any upcoming one down the road. The response was

no.

> Simply, no-nothing is available. (Very smug and smirky attitude

too)

> The district told me that they have 60 days to find something for

me (when

> the incident happened 2/21)

> Any advice would be great.

> I am very organized so, I have a lot of documentation to back

stuff up.

> I can not afford a lawyer. A better route would be of great help.

>

> And the most upsetting thing here is in October we (school

district &

> parents) were ready to start mainstreaming into regular

preschool.

> And January regression and behaviors began------------I am sad to

say the

> road he was on he is off. And I did call with my concerns in

January and I

> was blown off by the district. When I say behavior assessment-

it's like,

> every accuse in the book. I know start the paper

trail.....................

> The best advice anyone can give anyone here - IS TO PUT IT

ALL IN

> WRITING. I feel as if I've wasted so much time:(

>

> Sorry so lengthy.

> Thank you.

> Colette

Re: ***Crossed the Line********

Collette I'm sorry I'm coming into this so late.

I sometimes say how " due to ignorance our communication impaired

children are left locked in the dark with no way to cry out for

help " ...

as a way to describe the pain in theory -not reality!

I guess I used that expression because of something that I grew up

knowing. My brother and I were the honor roll students while my

sister who is dyslexic and the special ed child -grew up in

our shadows- and was always having problems in school. as a

child was also put into a room (a closet)with the lights out for

punishment at

school. She was

so affected by these punishments that even today over 30 years later

she still brings it up from time to time how she was locked in a

dark closet for punishment and how scary it was and how mean they

were to her. (in my sister's case finally told my mom what

was going on -but at that point it had gone on for awhile.) When

my mom found out like you she was horrified and went to the board of

ed -etc. and threw a fit. In addition - my mom worked with my

sister at home various ways -like with clay or puppets for example

to " act out " what happened. I remember my mom doing this to try to

help talk about what happened since it was hard for to

talk about it -she would cry. You can maybe try the same.

If you wish to speak with an attorney -I highly recommend Staci

Greenwald and Ted Sussan from Sussan and Greenwald Attorneys At Law

(407 Main Street Spotswood, NJ 08884. http://www.special-ed-law.com

Phone: 732-251-8585)

Staci Greenwald and Ted Sussan are advisors to CHERAB Foundation

http://www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/advisoryboard.html

and two of the best -if not the best -special ed attorneys in NJ.

They are very knowledgeable about the needs of apraxic and other

communication impaired children.

I also agree with Marina's suggestion of taking your story to the

media. Many times today the power of the media raising awareness

about how our children that are not yet able to speak for themselves

can be discriminated against and left to fall through the cracks -

can be a swifter kick than a lawyer. I know at least one producer

from a major NYC network TV news stations that will help you. This

Thursday the station is interviewing another communication impaired

child in our group in need this week (I'll post the details and air

date and time here and at the new CHERAB special announcement list

once I know cherab/ )

My other suggestion is to get a neurodevelopmental MD (perhaps a

child psych too?) involved to put in writing how this type of action

is inappropriate and could be psychologically damaging to a

communication impaired child. Document everything in writing.

Painful memories can carry for years -if only awareness to the pain

these situations can cause children was known -perhaps these kinds

of incidents would no longer happen.

=====

June 24, 2006

I remember those situations, too , and I think I would have sued under those

situations. Ben had the sniffles last weeks, though, and I think he really

thought if his

mouth was taped he would be unable to breathe and it would kill him. I think

that is why

he kept on saying he was " died " which I never heard from him before. And being

on the

spectrum he doesn't understand inappropriate jests or idioms of any kind...he

takes

everything absolutely literally--something the teacher should have known.

I took him to swimming classes before school started--it took three tries to

find the right

program for him, and finally we got one and he got a lot of benefit from it.

Excellent

teacher. Maybe I can get him in a morning program now, because the after school

ones

were filled until July. But with just a suit with a little bit of flotation in

it he was swimming

all over the pool yesterday. He kicks well and he is very proud of himself.

Peace,

Kathy E.

>

> I agree Kathy. As I always say don't underestimate " normal " kid

> stuff as great " therapy " for our kids too. Perhaps this summer try

> to get him into a swimming or karate class. I had great success

> with both of them since in both talking is optional.

June 24, 2006

>I agree Kathy. As I always say don't underestimate " normal " kid

>stuff as great " therapy " for our kids too. Perhaps this summer try

>to get him into a swimming or karate class. I had great success

>with both of them since in both talking is optional.

Also check out dance classes! Not as many boys, but my boys both love

dance and my younger feels no pressure at class and is now talking a lot

there too!

Miche

June 25, 2006

Thanks, guys. For some reason nearly every summer program in Ocala requires

kindergarten as a prerequisite, except VPK--but then I can always take him to

see his

great grandma in St. sburg, and things like that. Sunken Gardens might be

fun. And

who knows, maybe I could even survive another visit to The Mouse.

Peace,

Kathy E.

>

> >I agree Kathy. As I always say don't underestimate " normal " kid

> >stuff as great " therapy " for our kids too. Perhaps this summer try

> >to get him into a swimming or karate class. I had great success

> >with both of them since in both talking is optional.

>

> Also check out dance classes! Not as many boys, but my boys both love

> dance and my younger feels no pressure at class and is now talking a lot

> there too!

>

> Miche

>

June 27, 2006

Hi. My name is Haydee and I live in Florida too (Casselberry area). My son is

3and1/2 and I am having trouble finding a school that can help him with his

apraxia. Have you found any resources that you can tell me about that can help

me. I am moving to Leesburg in a few months and I am woried about how he will

react to the change. Thank you in advance.

Haydee

kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote: