Re: psychosomatic gluten?

[Guest guest]

Esther - I am so sorry you are sick again. When you eat out there

are countless opportunities for gluten to sneak into your system,

and sometimes all you need to do is smell it. While I don't think

you can have a psychosomatic reaction to imagined gluten (when none

is even in the vicinity), my DD definitely experienced physical

symptoms just from smelling the stuff. She nearly passed out in a

fish and chips place in England on a school trip before the

chaperones let her go outside. She got similarly nautious around

pasta and bread. From the last two glutenings you have described I

would say you are in a phase where your system is certainly on hyper-

alert to gluten. This leveled off for my DD over time, so hopefully

it will for you too.

I hope you feel better.

Sue in Denver

>

>

> Can one get psychosomatically glutened just from thinking about

gluten?

>

> Up until yesterday there were two restaurants that had never

glutened

> me. Just two.

>

> Now there is only one.

>

> BUT, the family, the waiter, the manager, and I cannot figure out

> where the gluten lurked. I was completely sick, before I even

> left the restaurant.

>

> Since I was sick before even getting in my vehicle, it leads me

> to suspect the appetizer.

>

> I've had the appetizer many times before without incident.

>

> Yesterday, however, the sour cream had specks in it. I didn't know

> what the specks were and fished them out. I was sure I'd gotten

them

> all out and avoided eating them. (I should have just sent the sour

> cream back.)

>

> I don't know what the specks were. I wondered if they were gluten

> specks from being scooped out of a common sour cream bin with

> a spoon that had gluten on it.

>

> But the manager tells me that the sour cream is dispensed from

> a bag, like cake frosting in a bakery that decorates cakes. There

> is no way a glutened spoon touches the sour cream.

>

> So..... was I glutened by imaginary & psychosomatic gluten?

>

> Please tell me it's not possible to psych oneself into a gluten

> reaction just by thinking about gluten.

>

> If I had that much power over the situation, says hubby, I should

> try psyching myself OUT of a gluten reaction so I can go enjoy

> some onion rings, Tim Horton's donuts, or a big bowl of pasta

> alfredo at Olive Garden.

>

> Esther in RI

> with the aching belly

> (The restaurant did have tonic water and brought me a big glass

> of it ASAP.)

>

[Guest guest]

Nearly 60 years ago, the dermatologist who was treating me for a horrible, itchy rash for 3 years without improvement told my mother to take me to a psychiatrist. He believed that rash was psychosomatic. It only took the doctors 55 years to finally diagnose my dermatitis herpetiformis and by that time I had developed a terrible case of the intestinal part of Celiac. I also get sick once in a while for no apparent reason. Our house is totally gluten free. I eat out rarely. Sometimes I think the reason is cross contamination from something that was contaminated in the factory in flours, mixes, etc. Who knows. I just know that the illness is real and not psychosomatic. So don't think you are crazy or have a severe case of anxiety. Just try to feel better and figure it out if you can. Shirley in San Diegoesther_p210 wrote: Can one get psychosomatically glutened just from thinking about gluten?Up until yesterday there were two restaurants that had never glutenedme. Just two. Now there is only one.BUT, the family, the waiter, the manager, and I cannot figure outwhere the gluten lurked. I was completely sick, before I evenleft the restaurant. Since I was sick before even getting in my vehicle, it leads meto suspect the appetizer. I've had the appetizer many times before without incident.Yesterday, however, the sour cream had specks in

it. I didn't knowwhat the specks were and fished them out. I was sure I'd gotten themall out and avoided eating them. (I should have just sent the sourcream back.)I don't know what the specks were. I wondered if they were glutenspecks from being scooped out of a common sour cream bin witha spoon that had gluten on it. But the manager tells me that the sour cream is dispensed froma bag, like cake frosting in a bakery that decorates cakes. Thereis no way a glutened spoon touches the sour cream. So..... was I glutened by imaginary & psychosomatic gluten? Please tell me it's not possible to psych oneself into a glutenreaction just by thinking about gluten.If I had that much power over the situation, says hubby, I shouldtry psyching myself OUT of a gluten reaction so I can go enjoysome onion rings, Tim Horton's donuts, or a big bowl of pastaalfredo at Olive Garden. Esther in

RIwith the aching belly(The restaurant did have tonic water and brought me a big glassof it ASAP.)

[Guest guest]

Maybe it is time to check with your doctor. Perhaps there is something else going on with your health completely unrelated to gluten.esther_p210 wrote: Can one get psychosomatically glutened just from thinking about gluten?Up until yesterday there were two restaurants that had never glutenedme. Just two. Now there is only one.BUT, the family, the waiter, the manager, and I cannot figure outwhere the gluten lurked. I was completely sick, before I evenleft the restaurant. Since I was sick before even getting in my vehicle, it leads meto suspect the appetizer. I've had the appetizer many times before without incident.Yesterday, however, the sour cream had specks in it. I didn't knowwhat the specks were and fished them out. I was sure I'd gotten

themall out and avoided eating them. (I should have just sent the sourcream back.)I don't know what the specks were. I wondered if they were glutenspecks from being scooped out of a common sour cream bin witha spoon that had gluten on it. But the manager tells me that the sour cream is dispensed froma bag, like cake frosting in a bakery that decorates cakes. Thereis no way a glutened spoon touches the sour cream. So..... was I glutened by imaginary & psychosomatic gluten? Please tell me it's not possible to psych oneself into a glutenreaction just by thinking about gluten.If I had that much power over the situation, says hubby, I shouldtry psyching myself OUT of a gluten reaction so I can go enjoysome onion rings, Tim Horton's donuts, or a big bowl of pastaalfredo at Olive Garden. Esther in RIwith the aching belly(The restaurant did have tonic water and brought me a big

glassof it ASAP.)

[Guest guest]

Another thought. Perhaps you are now sensitive to dairy? My good friend went gf, which resolved her gut pain (she believes she's probably celiac), but the same pain comes back if she eats diary.esther_p210 wrote: Can one get psychosomatically glutened just from thinking about gluten?Up until yesterday there were two restaurants that had never glutenedme. Just two. Now there is only one.BUT, the family, the waiter, the manager, and I cannot figure outwhere the gluten lurked. I was completely sick, before I evenleft the restaurant. Since I was sick before even getting in my vehicle, it leads meto suspect the appetizer. I've had the appetizer many times before without incident.Yesterday, however, the sour cream had specks in it. I didn't

knowwhat the specks were and fished them out. I was sure I'd gotten themall out and avoided eating them. (I should have just sent the sourcream back.)I don't know what the specks were. I wondered if they were glutenspecks from being scooped out of a common sour cream bin witha spoon that had gluten on it. But the manager tells me that the sour cream is dispensed froma bag, like cake frosting in a bakery that decorates cakes. Thereis no way a glutened spoon touches the sour cream. So..... was I glutened by imaginary & psychosomatic gluten? Please tell me it's not possible to psych oneself into a glutenreaction just by thinking about gluten.If I had that much power over the situation, says hubby, I shouldtry psyching myself OUT of a gluten reaction so I can go enjoysome onion rings, Tim Horton's donuts, or a big bowl of pastaalfredo at Olive Garden. Esther in RIwith the aching

belly(The restaurant did have tonic water and brought me a big glassof it ASAP.)

[Guest guest]

Many people simply cannot eat out often or at all due to the possibility of cross contaminiation being so high in restaurants. You may only be sensitive to gluten (like myself with no other food intolerances), but cannot even handle a crumb smaller than the eye can see. Eating out is always risky for a celiac.

Sorry you are sick again. I only rarely eat out because I do get sick more often than not from it.

Molly

Another thought. Perhaps you are now sensitive to dairy? My good friend went gf, which resolved her gut pain (she believes she's probably celiac), but the same pain comes back if she eats diary.

esther_p210 <esther (AT) sombrereptiles (DOT) org> wrote:

Can one get psychosomatically glutened just from thinking about gluten?Up until yesterday there were two restaurants that had never glutenedme. Just two.

Now there is only one.BUT, the family, the waiter, the manager, and I cannot figure outwhere the gluten lurked. I was completely sick, before I evenleft the restaurant. Since I was sick before even getting in my vehicle, it leads me

to suspect the appetizer. I've had the appetizer many times before without incident.Yesterday, however, the sour cream had specks in it. I didn't knowwhat the specks were and fished them out. I was sure I'd gotten them

all out and avoided eating them. (I should have just sent the sourcream back.)I don't know what the specks were. I wondered if they were glutenspecks from being scooped out of a common sour cream bin with

a spoon that had gluten on it. But the manager tells me that the sour cream is dispensed froma bag, like cake frosting in a bakery that decorates cakes. Thereis no way a glutened spoon touches the sour cream. So..... was I glutened by imaginary & psychosomatic gluten? Please tell me it's not possible to psych oneself into a glutenreaction just by thinking about gluten.If I had that much power over the situation, says hubby, I should

try psyching myself OUT of a gluten reaction so I can go enjoysome onion rings, Tim Horton's donuts, or a big bowl of pastaalfredo at Olive Garden. Esther in RIwith the aching belly(The restaurant did have tonic water and brought me a big glass

of it ASAP.)

[Guest guest]

I doubt one can get glutened from just thinking about it, and I also

am a little puzzled by a few of the details, like reacting quite so

quickly. What did you do before you went out to eat? What did you

handle, what were your kids doing, does your daughter share your

lipstick, did your husband eat pretzels and kiss you, did you hold a

piece of paper with your teeth that had been touched by gluten paws -

there really are thousands of little things to think about.

Also, do you cut up your kid's food with your knife? We often do

that for the 6 year old, and always have to think to use my knife

instead of his Dad-the-omnivore's knife that might have gluten on it.

It's also possible that you have had so many glutenings from dining

out that your system is now hypersensitive. **Strictly my opinion**

but in that situation I wouldn't take any risks for a couple months.

When a celiac keeps getting glutened, they kept getting sick and

don't heal. My recent experience is that a round of antibiotics

(verified GF) upset my body chemistry so badly that I started having

major problems with malabsorption again - neither my vitamins or HRT

were being absobed, and I was reacting to just about everything I

ate, even GF foods that I usually can tolerate. I know that if one

thing in my fragile health balance gets knocked out of balance, the

whole system can collapse and I feel like death for days. Maybe

you've hit a similar point?

Maureen

>

>

> Can one get psychosomatically glutened just from thinking about

gluten?

>

> Up until yesterday there were two restaurants that had never

glutened

> me. Just two.

>

> Now there is only one.

>

> BUT, the family, the waiter, the manager, and I cannot figure out

> where the gluten lurked. I was completely sick, before I even

> left the restaurant.

>

> Since I was sick before even getting in my vehicle, it leads me

> to suspect the appetizer.

>

> I've had the appetizer many times before without incident.

>

> Yesterday, however, the sour cream had specks in it. I didn't know

> what the specks were and fished them out. I was sure I'd gotten

them

> all out and avoided eating them. (I should have just sent the sour

> cream back.)

>

> I don't know what the specks were. I wondered if they were gluten

> specks from being scooped out of a common sour cream bin with

> a spoon that had gluten on it.

>

> But the manager tells me that the sour cream is dispensed from

> a bag, like cake frosting in a bakery that decorates cakes. There

> is no way a glutened spoon touches the sour cream.

>

> So..... was I glutened by imaginary & psychosomatic gluten?

>

> Please tell me it's not possible to psych oneself into a gluten

> reaction just by thinking about gluten.

>

> If I had that much power over the situation, says hubby, I should

> try psyching myself OUT of a gluten reaction so I can go enjoy

> some onion rings, Tim Horton's donuts, or a big bowl of pasta

> alfredo at Olive Garden.

>

> Esther in RI

[Guest guest]

I'd rather suffer a bad case of psychosomatic gluten than to have

to give up more pleasures in life (dairy, etc)!

I already don't drink, don't smoke, can't have nutrasweet, can't

have gluten.... and more! The thought of giving up more foods

just makes me want to climb under my rock and never come out.

Before we went to the restaurant we were on a family walk on

the bike path. When we arrived at the restaurant, we all used

the rest rooms. So, my hands should have been clean. (Even

used a paper towel to open the rest room door.)

I let hubby cut the shortest person's food. This restaurant

doesn't have crusty poison blobs that spread flying bits of

gluten at will. (Bugabook Creek and Outback are notorious for

blobs of poison brought ceremoniously to the table and relished

voraciously by my glutenoid dining companions.)

We had appetizers and then a bit of a wait for the main course.

So, by the time the appetizer was hitting my intestines, I was

well into the main course and perhaps even heading to dessert.

I couldn't finish the main course, and by dessert I was already

back in the necessary room, sick.

I seem to react quickly to gluten. Generally I can't even make

it home before I'm sick. It's rare, but not unprecedented, that

I'm sick before I even leave the premises.

I thought a quick reaction to gluten was common. Doesn't matter

if I'm mistaken in this impression or not. In my own case, the

reaction to gluten seems to be swift and certain.

I'm hoping it's not psychosomatic as well as swift and certain.

I'm also hoping that my problem is strictly limited to gluten

and not to myriads of other food stuffs.

Between my being on the lookout for gluten, and other food

allergies, my memory for reading labels is being taxed to the max.

I don't know how other people do it. You all seem to read labels

and cook meals with aplomb. Me? I find it all a huge struggle...

Some days less a struggle than others, true. But on the whole,

it's a struggle and even error fraught. Recently I put soups on

gluten-freebies because I didn't even SEE the peanuts listed in

the ingredients list until I got home. Sigh. Peanuts are a bigger

no-no than gluten. We have one peanut allergic person in the house.

I count it among my blessings that my gluten sensitivity is not

a life-and-death anaphylactic allergic reaction.

Esther in RI

>

> ...like reacting quite so

> quickly. ...

[Guest guest]

Esther,The fact that you ask about psychosomatic gluten maybe intuitive in a sense, but not the sense that you are thinking. Let me explain, to be a 'psychosomatic' condition there would need to be psychological issues in the production of your symptoms. You have celiac - it is a physical condition. However, as one person said you may be 'hypersensitive'. To go further - you may have an 'anticipatory' or 'learned' response. Unfortunately, you have gone to restaurants and gotten sick. Your body may have reacted to the restaurant as a learned response with a physically triggered response. You are still sick - your body reacted, just got mixed up and kicked into overdrive - okay goofed. I don't know if this makes any sense, but in my thinking it is entirely possible. Unfortunately, you can't 'psych' yourself out of a reaction - good try on your husband's thinking! The reason it MAY have happened to you is because your body has had so many reactions to gluten. Of course, as others have said you may have gotten gluten inadvertently, may have responded to smelling or inhaling something, may have had a but, may be reacting to something else. A lot of possibilities and they kind of all stink!

Anyway, just my opinion!Debby

[Guest guest]

Poor Esther - I hope you get over this soon!

I have never had psychosomatic glutening, but I did

hear a Dr. say in a lecture once, that once you have

malabsorbtion you always have a little of it, even if

you avoid gluten.

That helped me relax alot, because I have stopped

worrying where the gluten came from every time I don't

feel quite right. A week ago I had some

" malabsorbtion " . Felt very gassy, constipated,

bloated for about 5 days. I hadn't changed my eating

habits. Have no idea where it came from. But there

it was.

I, too, react very quickly to eating gluten. I don't

make it home, but at least it's not so bad that I

don't make it to the hospital. I heard a gal with a

peanut allergy say that if she ate peanuts she

wouldn't make it to the hospital, and I though, well,

if I eat gluten I might not make it to the bathroom!

I hope things are improving by the time you read this!

Barbara in SoCal.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Now I had read somewhere on a celiac site a doctor who wrote that a gluten reaction should take hours (he couldn't say how many, but enough for the food to get into your system) but an allergy can take minutes. Therefore, he says, if you get sick at the end of a meal, it is likely something other than gluten that you don't agree with. I know what you mean about giving up dairy. The gf diet has not fixed my colon trouble (I really think the nerves were damaged from the celiac). I am going to go to my friends doc, who is a DO and a oriental woman who also practices accupunture and the like. The doc told my friend a long time ago to give up gluten and diary to alleviate her digestive problems. I'm sure she will tell me to give up the diary too. Many people believe diary causes alot of trouble, and I'm sure there are lots of them on this list. I really think you should consider

it. Appearantly it is not uncommon for celiacs to be lactose intolerant until the intestines have healed enough, and then they can add it back. Otherwise, is it just possible that your home made cooking is so healthy that restaurant cooking is upsetting your system? I once went on a food program that eliminated all processed breads and grain products, and sugar. One night I eased up to eat at the churches fish fry. Gosh, do these knights know how to fry fish!!!! But, oh my gosh, I was visiting the bathroom plenty that evening starting as soon as I finished my plate. And this was a couple years before celiac diagnosis, but I have never, ever had the runs after eating gluten, so no one can say it was that. I really think it was the oil.esther_p210 wrote: I thought a quick reaction to gluten was common. Doesn't matterif I'm mistaken in this impression or not. In my own case, thereaction to gluten seems to be swift and certain.

Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.

Try it free.

[Guest guest]

In 20060808001712.66526.qmail@...>, on 08/07/06

at 05:17 PM, wendy pandolfo pandolfo@...> typed:

>Many people believe diary causes alot of trouble, and I'm sure there are

>lots of them on this list.

Only if someone else reads it (sorry, couldn't resist that)

diary = a journal

dairy = milk or milk derived products

--

n : jt@... http://jt-mj.net

In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!

Warpstock X - October 12-15 2006; Windsor, Ont. I'll be there - will you?

-- --

Error: Keyboard not attached. Press F1 to continue.

[Guest guest]

That's what I get for keeping up with 3 yahoo groups plus the kids, the house and my business LOL LOL LOLn wrote: In , on 08/07/06 at 05:17 PM, wendy pandolfo typed:>Many people believe diary causes alot of trouble, and I'm sure there are>lots of them on this list.Only if someone else reads it (sorry, couldn't resist that)diary = a journaldairy = milk or milk derived products-- n : jt@... http://jt-mj.netIn the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!Warpstock X - October 12-15 2006; Windsor, Ont. I'll be there - will you?-- --Error: Keyboard not attached. Press F1 to continue.Yahoo! Groups

Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SillyYaks/<*>

[Guest guest]

Esther,

Sorry you aren't feeling well. Hope you do soon. I had a couple of ideas for

you:

While it is tue that many restaurants use a large pastry bag to dole out the

sour cream

into cups, if the prep area was next to one where bread crumbs may have been....

and the

staff member set the bag down on top of the crumbs.... it could have transfered.

You said it was an appetizer. Did you eat with your fingers? While you may have

been

careful in the restroom, are you certain about the table? I have seen many a

waitress do

a pretty sloppy job at washing the table. And they do go from one table to the

next.

Perhaps the table wasn't washed down very well. The last time we went to Chuck E

Cheese

for a birthday party, we thought we had our bases covered. Brought our own party

table

cloth, brought our own GF pizza, ordered only pop, our little yak washed her

hands with

soap and water before eating...... the whole nine yards. She seemed fine through

most of

the meal, but then went to play and before long we needed to go home to puke.

She hardly

made it out the door. Had similar problems with her desk at school - she now

washes her

own desk daily. I am now very leary of what we touch and then accidentally

getting into

our mouths. Could you have gotten it from the table?

A secondary food issue sounds a good bet too. If it were from that, get it

checked soon

as vommiting that soon could be the sign of a more severe reaction and you might

need to

carry an epipen.

Or it could be a touch of a flu bug too. I also am " trotting " today and I have

not even

been out of the house to get glutened......

Hope you feel better.

Cheryl in MN

Cheryl

rxp_us@...

[Guest guest]

>> I'd rather suffer a bad case of psychosomatic gluten than to have> to give up more pleasures in life (dairy, etc)!> I already don't drink, don't smoke, can't have nutrasweet, can't> have gluten.... and more! The thought of giving up more foods> just makes me want to climb under my rock and never come out.> > Before we went to the restaurant we were on a family walk on> the bike path. When we arrived at the restaurant, we all used> the rest rooms. So, my hands should have been clean. (Even> used a paper towel to open the rest room door.)> > I let hubby cut the shortest person's food. This restaurant> doesn't have crusty poison blobs that spread flying bits of> gluten at will. (Bugabook Creek and Outback are notorious for> blobs of poison brought ceremoniously to the table and relished> voraciously by my glutenoid dining companions.)> Esther dear, can I just tell you how much I love you? Your description of the poison blobs flying, well, it made my day! Been there and done that. A few weeks ago we went to Lapland for a motorcycle rally, yes the food was GF (nice ham and potato dish, some yummy looking soup) but I didnt touch a bit of it as I watched the server pass those "blobs" right over the top of the open steam table dish... Sigh.Anyway, DH took me to Rosso for lunch on the way home. I had the GF Pollo Formaggio and IMMEDATELY was in the ladies room. WHAT? Glutened at my most favorite restaurant? No, wasnt that at all. A couple bottles of mineral water, stomach calmed down and looking back, I really think it was the combination of the heat and dairy that upset me. The next day I had my appt for my monthly visit to the vampire and that is when the Dr said I need to get off Dairy. Go again next week, but think Dairy is gonna be out for me. Had a bit this past weekend, and feet swelled like balloons. (they havent since I went LF)May be an experiment you want to try for a week. Just to see how you feel.Big Hugs!CassiGluten free in downtown Imarta!