Re: what kind of sedation?

[Guest guest]

I know I am beating a dead horse here, but for those new people or those

lurking. Please keep in mind doing an ABR with out sedation will skew the

results. Unless your child is sound asleep - which is difficult after you

scrub on their head 3 different places and place electrodes on their ears

and probes in the ear canal.

Your test results will not be accurate if your child is awake. Even still

and quiet but looking around will skew your results. The reason is, your

brain does certain things in certain areas, the front of the brain is motor

and memory. If you are awake you are stimulating that area. Even if you are

being still.

Hmm maybe I should do my research study on this? I will get off my soap box

now..

Best,

Angie

>

> someone asked about what kind of sedation for ABR. I can only tell you

> what our experience was. The audi at the hospital did say that the ABR can

> be done without sedation but that was not the norm with them because they

> stressed how the child had to be very still and quiet. I remember even

> during 's OAE if he just shifted in the seat they had to readjust.

> Anyway, had two ABRs. One was at 2 months and then another follow up I

> think six months later. they used chloralhydrate. I don't know how you spell

> it. It was a liquid taken orally. From what they told me it tastes terrible

> so it's not easy to get down. It puts them to sleep fairly quickly. You're

> supposed to bring them in sleepy. They request that they go to bed late and

> wake up extra early. The appointment is in the morning. At the time I didn't

> even know there would have been an option not to sedate if I pushed it, but

> I seriously doubt we could have gotten results and we would have had to just

> reschedule. was a very active baby and still is an active boy. He can

> literally bounce off walls and climb walls. I know nobody would believe

> that, but if you have a kid like that you may know what I mean.

> When my youngest son still had no speech or sounds at 1.5 years old he had

> an ABR just to rule out any hearing loss even though he passed his newborn

> screen. We tried him in the booth but he freaked out even going in the room

> and wouldn't calm down. Depending on age or weight is whether they give the

> oral sedation or whether they have to give a drug intravenously.

> Unfortunately had to do the intravenous sedation and that was pretty

> traumatic for us since they had trouble keeping him still and getting the

> needle in. In the end he was okay. He didn't have hearing loss. These days

> he hears the ice cream truck a mile away! (My HOH son seems to too!)

>

> K

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have looked at this on many, many places and continually read that the

child needs to be very still and quiet. That's it. Only motion creates bad

results, from everything I have read, and I am reading medical articles and

journals.

RT

>

> I know I am beating a dead horse here, but for those new people or

> those

> lurking. Please keep in mind doing an ABR with out sedation will skew the

> results. Unless your child is sound asleep - which is difficult after you

> scrub on their head 3 different places and place electrodes on their ears

> and probes in the ear canal.

>

> Your test results will not be accurate if your child is awake. Even still

> and quiet but looking around will skew your results. The reason is, your

> brain does certain things in certain areas, the front of the brain is

> motor

> and memory. If you are awake you are stimulating that area. Even if you

> are

> being still.

>

> Hmm maybe I should do my research study on this? I will get off my soap

> box

> now..

>

> Best,

> Angie

>

>

> >

> > someone asked about what kind of sedation for ABR. I can only tell you

> > what our experience was. The audi at the hospital did say that the ABR

> can

> > be done without sedation but that was not the norm with them because

> they

> > stressed how the child had to be very still and quiet. I remember even

> > during 's OAE if he just shifted in the seat they had to readjust.

> > Anyway, had two ABRs. One was at 2 months and then another follow

> up I

> > think six months later. they used chloralhydrate. I don't know how you

> spell

> > it. It was a liquid taken orally. From what they told me it tastes

> terrible

> > so it's not easy to get down. It puts them to sleep fairly quickly.

> You're

> > supposed to bring them in sleepy. They request that they go to bed late

> and

> > wake up extra early. The appointment is in the morning. At the time I

> didn't

> > even know there would have been an option not to sedate if I pushed it,

> but

> > I seriously doubt we could have gotten results and we would have had to

> just

> > reschedule. was a very active baby and still is an active boy. He

> can

> > literally bounce off walls and climb walls. I know nobody would believe

> > that, but if you have a kid like that you may know what I mean.

> > When my youngest son still had no speech or sounds at 1.5 years old he

> had

> > an ABR just to rule out any hearing loss even though he passed his

> newborn

> > screen. We tried him in the booth but he freaked out even going in the

> room

> > and wouldn't calm down. Depending on age or weight is whether they give

> the

> > oral sedation or whether they have to give a drug intravenously.

> > Unfortunately had to do the intravenous sedation and that was

> pretty

> > traumatic for us since they had trouble keeping him still and getting

> the

> > needle in. In the end he was okay. He didn't have hearing loss. These

> days

> > he hears the ice cream truck a mile away! (My HOH son seems to too!)

> >

> > K

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

FWIW guys, Angie would know this - she's a doctoral candidate for an

audiology degree (we're so lucky to have her here!).

Barbara

Robin Tomlinson wrote:

> I have looked at this on many, many places and continually read that the

> child needs to be very still and quiet. That's it. Only motion creates bad

> results, from everything I have read, and I am reading medical articles and

> journals.

>

> RT

>

>

>

>

>> I know I am beating a dead horse here, but for those new people or

>> those

>> lurking. Please keep in mind doing an ABR with out sedation will skew the

>> results. Unless your child is sound asleep - which is difficult after you

>> scrub on their head 3 different places and place electrodes on their ears

>> and probes in the ear canal.

>>

>> Your test results will not be accurate if your child is awake. Even still

>> and quiet but looking around will skew your results. The reason is, your

>> brain does certain things in certain areas, the front of the brain is

>> motor

>> and memory. If you are awake you are stimulating that area. Even if you

>> are

>> being still.

>>

>> Hmm maybe I should do my research study on this? I will get off my soap

>> box

>> now..

>>

>> Best,

>> Angie

>>

>>

>>

>>> someone asked about what kind of sedation for ABR. I can only tell you

>>> what our experience was. The audi at the hospital did say that the ABR

>>>

>> can

>>

>>> be done without sedation but that was not the norm with them because

>>>

>> they

>>

>>> stressed how the child had to be very still and quiet. I remember even

>>> during 's OAE if he just shifted in the seat they had to readjust.

>>> Anyway, had two ABRs. One was at 2 months and then another follow

>>>

>> up I

>>

>>> think six months later. they used chloralhydrate. I don't know how you

>>>

>> spell

>>

>>> it. It was a liquid taken orally. From what they told me it tastes

>>>

>> terrible

>>

>>> so it's not easy to get down. It puts them to sleep fairly quickly.

>>>

>> You're

>>

>>> supposed to bring them in sleepy. They request that they go to bed late

>>>

>> and

>>

>>> wake up extra early. The appointment is in the morning. At the time I

>>>

>> didn't

>>

>>> even know there would have been an option not to sedate if I pushed it,

>>>

>> but

>>

>>> I seriously doubt we could have gotten results and we would have had to

>>>

>> just

>>

>>> reschedule. was a very active baby and still is an active boy. He

>>>

>> can

>>

>>> literally bounce off walls and climb walls. I know nobody would believe

>>> that, but if you have a kid like that you may know what I mean.

>>> When my youngest son still had no speech or sounds at 1.5 years old he

>>>

>> had

>>

>>> an ABR just to rule out any hearing loss even though he passed his

>>>

>> newborn

>>

>>> screen. We tried him in the booth but he freaked out even going in the

>>>

>> room

>>

>>> and wouldn't calm down. Depending on age or weight is whether they give

>>>

>> the

>>

>>> oral sedation or whether they have to give a drug intravenously.

>>> Unfortunately had to do the intravenous sedation and that was

>>>

>> pretty

>>

>>> traumatic for us since they had trouble keeping him still and getting

>>>

>> the

>>

>>> needle in. In the end he was okay. He didn't have hearing loss. These

>>>

>> days

>>

>>> he hears the ice cream truck a mile away! (My HOH son seems to too!)

>>>

>>> K

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

But, I don't want to get into a large debate about ABR sedation.

The thing is, ABR's are being done on children at younger and younger ages

these days. With new born hearing screenings we are detecting children

earlier than ever before - which is great.

The fallout of this is some Audiologists don't have all of the info to

accurately read ABR tracings - to tell if the non sedated child was causing

malfunctions with the equipt or if it is a true reading. I am in no way

saying that has happened in regards to the recent ABR results we have been

discussing. I am saying - on average. If you are not talking to a Pediatric

Neurologist or an ENT about ABR results, I don't really trust the common

pediatrician or the Audiologist for that matter. To tell you that sedation

is not required.

I am one of those parents who is overly cautious. I am speaking as a parent

and not an Au.D candidate. There are too many variables in non sedated ABR

readings. When you look at a diagram of the brain and see where memory and

motor movement occurs it is in the exact location of one of the primary

electrodes for measurement. It is just too risky to me as a parent.

But, seriously, if you have a medical professional you trust giving you

advice about non sedation I would go with that.

I am really thinking about doing my research thesis on this! If I do, I will

make sure to publish it here

Take care!

Angie

>

> FWIW guys, Angie would know this - she's a doctoral candidate for an

> audiology degree (we're so lucky to have her here!).

>

> Barbara

>

>

> Robin Tomlinson wrote:

> > I have looked at this on many, many places and continually read that the

> > child needs to be very still and quiet. That's it. Only motion creates

> bad

> > results, from everything I have read, and I am reading medical articles

> and

> > journals.

> >

> > RT

> >

> >

> > On 6/15/06, Angie Mucci angie.mucci@... >

> wrote:

> >

> >> I know I am beating a dead horse here, but for those new people or

> >> those

> >> lurking. Please keep in mind doing an ABR with out sedation will skew

> the

> >> results. Unless your child is sound asleep - which is difficult after

> you

> >> scrub on their head 3 different places and place electrodes on their

> ears

> >> and probes in the ear canal.

> >>

> >> Your test results will not be accurate if your child is awake. Even

> still

> >> and quiet but looking around will skew your results. The reason is,

> your

> >> brain does certain things in certain areas, the front of the brain is

> >> motor

> >> and memory. If you are awake you are stimulating that area. Even if you

> >> are

> >> being still.

> >>

> >> Hmm maybe I should do my research study on this? I will get off my soap

> >> box

> >> now..

> >>

> >> Best,

> >> Angie

> >>

> >> On 6/15/06, Kearns lisak555@...

> wrote:

> >>

> >>> someone asked about what kind of sedation for ABR. I can only tell you

> >>> what our experience was. The audi at the hospital did say that the ABR

> >>>

> >> can

> >>

> >>> be done without sedation but that was not the norm with them because

> >>>

> >> they

> >>

> >>> stressed how the child had to be very still and quiet. I remember even

> >>> during 's OAE if he just shifted in the seat they had to readjust.

> >>> Anyway, had two ABRs. One was at 2 months and then another follow

> >>>

> >> up I

> >>

> >>> think six months later. they used chloralhydrate. I don't know how you

> >>>

> >> spell

> >>

> >>> it. It was a liquid taken orally. From what they told me it tastes

> >>>

> >> terrible

> >>

> >>> so it's not easy to get down. It puts them to sleep fairly quickly.

> >>>

> >> You're

> >>

> >>> supposed to bring them in sleepy. They request that they go to bed

> late

> >>>

> >> and

> >>

> >>> wake up extra early. The appointment is in the morning. At the time I

> >>>

> >> didn't

> >>

> >>> even know there would have been an option not to sedate if I pushed

> it,

> >>>

> >> but

> >>

> >>> I seriously doubt we could have gotten results and we would have had

> to

> >>>

> >> just

> >>

> >>> reschedule. was a very active baby and still is an active boy. He

> >>>

> >> can

> >>

> >>> literally bounce off walls and climb walls. I know nobody would

> believe

> >>> that, but if you have a kid like that you may know what I mean.

> >>> When my youngest son still had no speech or sounds at 1.5 years old he

> >>>

> >> had

> >>

> >>> an ABR just to rule out any hearing loss even though he passed his

> >>>

> >> newborn

> >>

> >>> screen. We tried him in the booth but he freaked out even going in the

> >>>

> >> room

> >>

> >>> and wouldn't calm down. Depending on age or weight is whether they

> give

> >>>

> >> the

> >>

> >>> oral sedation or whether they have to give a drug intravenously.

> >>> Unfortunately had to do the intravenous sedation and that was

> >>>

> >> pretty

> >>

> >>> traumatic for us since they had trouble keeping him still and getting

> >>>

> >> the

> >>

> >>> needle in. In the end he was okay. He didn't have hearing loss. These

> >>>

> >> days

> >>

> >>> he hears the ice cream truck a mile away! (My HOH son seems to too!)

> >>>

> >>> K

> >>>

> >>>

[Guest guest]

I posted but it looks like it got lost....

So what you are saying is that an awake child's brain may show that he is

hearing at times when he actually isn't because of brain activity that is

stimulated because of eye movement, head and arm movement??? I can completely

understandt that concept - but what I don't understand is that because my child

is sedated his tests that are showing he is hearing impaired could actually be

false and he could be a perfectly " normal " hearing child. Even though there is

extra brain activity there? Do you see my confusion? Extra brain activity

can't cause both results.

I'm just simply confused by the " facts " here. If brain activity causes

responses from the ABR then how can brain activity cause NO responses when there

should be?

Angie Mucci angie.mucci@...> wrote:

But, I don't want to get into a large debate about ABR sedation.

The thing is, ABR's are being done on children at younger and younger ages

these days. With new born hearing screenings we are detecting children

earlier than ever before - which is great.

The fallout of this is some Audiologists don't have all of the info to

accurately read ABR tracings - to tell if the non sedated child was causing

malfunctions with the equipt or if it is a true reading. I am in no way

saying that has happened in regards to the recent ABR results we have been

discussing. I am saying - on average. If you are not talking to a Pediatric

Neurologist or an ENT about ABR results, I don't really trust the common

pediatrician or the Audiologist for that matter. To tell you that sedation

is not required.

I am one of those parents who is overly cautious. I am speaking as a parent

and not an Au.D candidate. There are too many variables in non sedated ABR

readings. When you look at a diagram of the brain and see where memory and

motor movement occurs it is in the exact location of one of the primary

electrodes for measurement. It is just too risky to me as a parent.

But, seriously, if you have a medical professional you trust giving you

advice about non sedation I would go with that.

I am really thinking about doing my research thesis on this! If I do, I will

make sure to publish it here

Take care!

Angie

>

> FWIW guys, Angie would know this - she's a doctoral candidate for an

> audiology degree (we're so lucky to have her here!).

>

> Barbara

>

>

> Robin Tomlinson wrote:

> > I have looked at this on many, many places and continually read that the

> > child needs to be very still and quiet. That's it. Only motion creates

> bad

> > results, from everything I have read, and I am reading medical articles

> and

> > journals.

> >

> > RT

> >

> >

> > On 6/15/06, Angie Mucci angie.mucci@... >

> wrote:

> >

> >> I know I am beating a dead horse here, but for those new people or

> >> those

> >> lurking. Please keep in mind doing an ABR with out sedation will skew

> the

> >> results. Unless your child is sound asleep - which is difficult after

> you

> >> scrub on their head 3 different places and place electrodes on their

> ears

> >> and probes in the ear canal.

> >>

> >> Your test results will not be accurate if your child is awake. Even

> still

> >> and quiet but looking around will skew your results. The reason is,

> your

> >> brain does certain things in certain areas, the front of the brain is

> >> motor

> >> and memory. If you are awake you are stimulating that area. Even if you

> >> are

> >> being still.

> >>

> >> Hmm maybe I should do my research study on this? I will get off my soap

> >> box

> >> now..

> >>

> >> Best,

> >> Angie

> >>

> >> On 6/15/06, Kearns lisak555@...

> wrote:

> >>

> >>> someone asked about what kind of sedation for ABR. I can only tell you

> >>> what our experience was. The audi at the hospital did say that the ABR

> >>>

> >> can

> >>

> >>> be done without sedation but that was not the norm with them because

> >>>

> >> they

> >>

> >>> stressed how the child had to be very still and quiet. I remember even

> >>> during 's OAE if he just shifted in the seat they had to readjust.

> >>> Anyway, had two ABRs. One was at 2 months and then another follow

> >>>

> >> up I

> >>

> >>> think six months later. they used chloralhydrate. I don't know how you

> >>>

> >> spell

> >>

> >>> it. It was a liquid taken orally. From what they told me it tastes

> >>>

> >> terrible

> >>

> >>> so it's not easy to get down. It puts them to sleep fairly quickly.

> >>>

> >> You're

> >>

> >>> supposed to bring them in sleepy. They request that they go to bed

> late

> >>>

> >> and

> >>

> >>> wake up extra early. The appointment is in the morning. At the time I

> >>>

> >> didn't

> >>

> >>> even know there would have been an option not to sedate if I pushed

> it,

> >>>

> >> but

> >>

> >>> I seriously doubt we could have gotten results and we would have had

> to

> >>>

> >> just

> >>

> >>> reschedule. was a very active baby and still is an active boy. He

> >>>

> >> can

> >>

> >>> literally bounce off walls and climb walls. I know nobody would

> believe

> >>> that, but if you have a kid like that you may know what I mean.

> >>> When my youngest son still had no speech or sounds at 1.5 years old he

> >>>

> >> had

> >>

> >>> an ABR just to rule out any hearing loss even though he passed his

> >>>

> >> newborn

> >>

> >>> screen. We tried him in the booth but he freaked out even going in the

> >>>

> >> room

> >>

> >>> and wouldn't calm down. Depending on age or weight is whether they

> give

> >>>

> >> the

> >>

> >>> oral sedation or whether they have to give a drug intravenously.

> >>> Unfortunately had to do the intravenous sedation and that was

> >>>

> >> pretty

> >>

> >>> traumatic for us since they had trouble keeping him still and getting

> >>>

> >> the

> >>

> >>> needle in. In the end he was okay. He didn't have hearing loss. These

> >>>

> >> days

> >>

> >>> he hears the ice cream truck a mile away! (My HOH son seems to too!)

> >>>

> >>> K

> >>>

> >>>

[Guest guest]

Just thought I'd jump in quickly and add my story because it was

very painful:

Our daughter had her first ABR (unsedated) at 2 wks of age. As

newborns tend to sleep all the time, she did sleep but even in her

sleep, she was not deeply asleep and that apparently even skewed the

results. But we didn't know this until she was 5 months old.

What was painful was that the audiologist (a pediatric audi at

Children's in Boston), while she (rightfully I believe) recommended

we sedate Jordan at 5 months, still felt that the results were

mostly accurate. I think her words were " the ABR is very accurate,

but we should just confirm it with a sedated ABR in a few months. "

So for 5 months, I believed her loss to be moderately severe in one

ear and severe in the other, even though I became CONVINCED that she

was hearing better than that. I called this audi several times

during those months to relay this and ask if the ABR could have been

more inaccurate than what the ABR showed, but she pooh-poohed it and

kept reinstating that the ABR (even unsedated) is very accurate and

that it was just wishful thinking on my part (she implied).

So PS - at 5 months old, Jordan's sedated ABR (performed by a

different audi) showed a mild-moderate loss in BOTH ears, confirming

my feelings. I couldn't believe how different the results could be

and why our original audi failed to explain to us that this could

happen.

Deganit, mom to Jordan, 19 months, mild-moderate SNHL

> > >>

> > >>> someone asked about what kind of sedation for ABR. I can

only tell you

> > >>> what our experience was. The audi at the hospital did say

that the ABR

> > >>>

> > >> can

> > >>

> > >>> be done without sedation but that was not the norm with them

because

> > >>>

> > >> they

> > >>

> > >>> stressed how the child had to be very still and quiet. I

remember even

> > >>> during 's OAE if he just shifted in the seat they had to

readjust.

> > >>> Anyway, had two ABRs. One was at 2 months and then

another follow

> > >>>

> > >> up I

> > >>

> > >>> think six months later. they used chloralhydrate. I don't

know how you

> > >>>

> > >> spell

> > >>

> > >>> it. It was a liquid taken orally. From what they told me it

tastes

> > >>>

> > >> terrible

> > >>

> > >>> so it's not easy to get down. It puts them to sleep fairly

quickly.

> > >>>

> > >> You're

> > >>

> > >>> supposed to bring them in sleepy. They request that they go

to bed

> > late

> > >>>

> > >> and

> > >>

> > >>> wake up extra early. The appointment is in the morning. At

the time I

> > >>>

> > >> didn't

> > >>

> > >>> even know there would have been an option not to sedate if I

pushed

> > it,

> > >>>

> > >> but

> > >>

> > >>> I seriously doubt we could have gotten results and we would

have had

> > to

> > >>>

> > >> just

> > >>

> > >>> reschedule. was a very active baby and still is an

active boy. He

> > >>>

> > >> can

> > >>

> > >>> literally bounce off walls and climb walls. I know nobody

would

> > believe

> > >>> that, but if you have a kid like that you may know what I

mean.

> > >>> When my youngest son still had no speech or sounds at 1.5

years old he

> > >>>

> > >> had

> > >>

> > >>> an ABR just to rule out any hearing loss even though he

passed his

> > >>>

> > >> newborn

> > >>

> > >>> screen. We tried him in the booth but he freaked out even

going in the

> > >>>

> > >> room

> > >>

> > >>> and wouldn't calm down. Depending on age or weight is

whether they

> > give

> > >>>

> > >> the

> > >>

> > >>> oral sedation or whether they have to give a drug

intravenously.

> > >>> Unfortunately had to do the intravenous sedation and

that was

> > >>>

> > >> pretty

> > >>

> > >>> traumatic for us since they had trouble keeping him still

and getting

> > >>>

> > >> the

> > >>

> > >>> needle in. In the end he was okay. He didn't have hearing

loss. These

> > >>>

> > >> days

> > >>

> > >>> he hears the ice cream truck a mile away! (My HOH son seems

to too!)

> > >>>

> > >>> K

> > >>>

> > >>>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I have two of those kids, so I know exactly what you mean. Thankfully we

never needed to worry about sedation for an ABR because never needed one.

We did however have to sedate her for the CT scan. That was pretty tramatic

because it she was 4 1/2 and had to have an IV for it. She wanted NOTHING to do

with it and she ended up pulling it out once. She can be a bit strong willed.

Debbie, mom to , 7 tomorrow, moderate SNHL and , 3, hearing

Kearns lisak555@...> wrote:

was a very active baby and still is an active boy. He can

literally bounce off walls and climb walls. I know nobody would believe that,

but if you have a kid like that you may know what I mean.

Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were

and ask why not. G.B Shaw

---------------------------------

Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Yahoo!

Messenger with Voice.

[Guest guest]

It just shows that as parents, we know our kids, doesn't it?!

dstein26 wrote:

> So PS - at 5 months old, Jordan's sedated ABR (performed by a

> different audi) showed a mild-moderate loss in BOTH ears, confirming

> my feelings. I couldn't believe how different the results could be

> and why our original audi failed to explain to us that this could

> happen.

>

> Deganit, mom to Jordan, 19 months, mild-moderate SNHL

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/17/2006 10:39:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

motocrosschick032003@... writes:

Hi I see that you have had some type of sedation for your child..my 20

month old is going to have the sedated abr test done next month and i

am really nervous about it Could someone tell me what to expect from

this how long it takes what all they do ...I would really appreciate

it ...

Tara

We never had ABRs so I'll let those with experience answer about that test.

However, Ian was " sedated " for MRIs and CT scans when they were trying to

look at the incredibly small details in his head. However they never used any

prescription or intravenous drugs. Like another mom here, I pointed out that

Dimetapp (an over-the-counter allergy medicine) was like a sleeping pill for my

kids. So, we'd go into the city and just before the train arrived in Grand

Central, or if I was driving -- as we got close to the hospital, I would give

Ian a regular dose of it and he'd be sleepy. By the time he was fed into the

" donut " or " tunnel " he was quite sleepy, not at all nervous and looking

forward to a bit of a nap.

These scans were not paired with other things like a booth test, because

quite honestly, the kid just wanted to get back to the car/train and finish his

nap on the ride home.

And just to be clear, the doctors were fine with giving him that. They said

it was a milder medication that what he'd receive from them if they did the

sedating. My kids have always been very sensitive to meds, they don't get them

often or lightly. A single Tylenol will still put my 12-year-old, 5'4 "

daughter to sleep.

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

Hi I see that you have had some type of sedation for your child..my 20

month old is going to have the sedated abr test done next month and i

am really nervous about it Could someone tell me what to expect from

this how long it takes what all they do ...I would really appreciate

it ...

Tara

[Guest guest]

My child was three. They told me beforehand not to be shocked when she fell

asleep IMMEDIATELY. They were right. She was given a little medicine cup

of the chloralhydrate. She drank it, said, " That... " and fell over into my

arms asleep. I don't remember the test taking any longer than an hour . . .

my son and I watched TV in a waiting room and I was nervous so I have no

idea how long I was there. She woke up later and was slightly groggy for

about the next 30 minutes. Then she was her old self, talking me to death in

the car as usual. = )

>

> Hi I see that you have had some type of sedation for your child..my 20

> month old is going to have the sedated abr test done next month and i

> am really nervous about it Could someone tell me what to expect from

> this how long it takes what all they do ...I would really appreciate

> it ...

>

> Tara

>

>

>

--

Robin Tomlinson

thetomlinsons@...

[Guest guest]

It wasn't lost. I am just really busy with school and I was busy getting

ready to go to AG Bell.

I honestly wasn't sure if I wanted to answer this. I do hope we can drop

this topic because I have no desire to debate sedation vs. non sedation.

I am saying, from what I have been told and from what I have read during my

own medical career. I am not comfortable reading ABR results and calling

them accurate if a child is not sedated. That is my choice. I do caution

others about non sedated ABR's due to my own daughters horrible misdiagnosis

at 2 months with a non sedated ABR. They said she had normal to a mild

hearing loss. When in fact after 7 months of really what can only be

described as pins and needles and me staying up many sleepless nights

reading medical text books. She recieved a sedated ABR, that I paid for out

of pocket because our insurance company was convinced she had normal

hearing.

My daughter's hearing loss is profound.

I hope we can move on from this topic and find more useful things to

discuss.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9\

119601&dopt=Abstract

Best,

Angie

>

> I posted but it looks like it got lost....

>

> So what you are saying is that an awake child's brain may show that he is

> hearing at times when he actually isn't because of brain activity that is

> stimulated because of eye movement, head and arm movement??? I can

> completely understandt that concept - but what I don't understand is that

> because my child is sedated his tests that are showing he is hearing

> impaired could actually be false and he could be a perfectly " normal "

> hearing child. Even though there is extra brain activity there? Do you see

> my confusion? Extra brain activity can't cause both results.

>

> I'm just simply confused by the " facts " here. If brain activity causes

> responses from the ABR then how can brain activity cause NO responses when

> there should be?

>

> Angie Mucci angie.mucci@... > wrote:

> But, I don't want to get into a large debate about ABR sedation.

>

> The thing is, ABR's are being done on children at younger and younger ages

> these days. With new born hearing screenings we are detecting children

> earlier than ever before - which is great.

>

> The fallout of this is some Audiologists don't have all of the info to

> accurately read ABR tracings - to tell if the non sedated child was

> causing

> malfunctions with the equipt or if it is a true reading. I am in no way

> saying that has happened in regards to the recent ABR results we have been

> discussing. I am saying - on average. If you are not talking to a

> Pediatric

> Neurologist or an ENT about ABR results, I don't really trust the common

> pediatrician or the Audiologist for that matter. To tell you that sedation

> is not required.

>

> I am one of those parents who is overly cautious. I am speaking as a

> parent

> and not an Au.D candidate. There are too many variables in non sedated ABR

> readings. When you look at a diagram of the brain and see where memory and

> motor movement occurs it is in the exact location of one of the primary

> electrodes for measurement. It is just too risky to me as a parent.

>

> But, seriously, if you have a medical professional you trust giving you

> advice about non sedation I would go with that.

>

> I am really thinking about doing my research thesis on this! If I do, I

> will

> make sure to publish it here

>

> Take care!

> Angie

>

> On 6/15/06, Barbara Mellert

Barbara.T.Mellert@...>

> wrote:

> >

> > FWIW guys, Angie would know this - she's a doctoral candidate for an

> > audiology degree (we're so lucky to have her here!).

> >

> > Barbara

> >

> >

> > Robin Tomlinson wrote:

> > > I have looked at this on many, many places and continually read that

> the

> > > child needs to be very still and quiet. That's it. Only motion creates

> > bad

> > > results, from everything I have read, and I am reading medical

> articles

> > and

> > > journals.

> > >

> > > RT

> > >

> > >

> > > On 6/15/06, Angie Mucci angie.mucci@...<

> angie.mucci%40gmail.com>>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > >> I know I am beating a dead horse here, but for those new people or

> > >> those

> > >> lurking. Please keep in mind doing an ABR with out sedation will skew

> > the

> > >> results. Unless your child is sound asleep - which is difficult after

> > you

> > >> scrub on their head 3 different places and place electrodes on their

> > ears

> > >> and probes in the ear canal.

> > >>

> > >> Your test results will not be accurate if your child is awake. Even

> > still

> > >> and quiet but looking around will skew your results. The reason is,

> > your

> > >> brain does certain things in certain areas, the front of the brain is

> > >> motor

> > >> and memory. If you are awake you are stimulating that area. Even if

> you

> > >> are

> > >> being still.

> > >>

> > >> Hmm maybe I should do my research study on this? I will get off my

> soap

> > >> box

> > >> now..

> > >>

> > >> Best,

> > >> Angie

> > >>

> > >> On 6/15/06, Kearns lisak555@...

40cox.net>> wrote:

> > >>

> > >>> someone asked about what kind of sedation for ABR. I can only tell

> you

> > >>> what our experience was. The audi at the hospital did say that the

> ABR

> > >>>

> > >> can

> > >>

> > >>> be done without sedation but that was not the norm with them because

> > >>>

> > >> they

> > >>

> > >>> stressed how the child had to be very still and quiet. I remember

> even

> > >>> during 's OAE if he just shifted in the seat they had to

> readjust.

> > >>> Anyway, had two ABRs. One was at 2 months and then another

> follow

> > >>>

> > >> up I

> > >>

> > >>> think six months later. they used chloralhydrate. I don't know how

> you

> > >>>

> > >> spell

> > >>

> > >>> it. It was a liquid taken orally. From what they told me it tastes

> > >>>

> > >> terrible

> > >>

> > >>> so it's not easy to get down. It puts them to sleep fairly quickly.

> > >>>

> > >> You're

> > >>

> > >>> supposed to bring them in sleepy. They request that they go to bed

> > late

> > >>>

> > >> and

> > >>

> > >>> wake up extra early. The appointment is in the morning. At the time

> I

> > >>>

> > >> didn't

> > >>

> > >>> even know there would have been an option not to sedate if I pushed

> > it,

> > >>>

> > >> but

> > >>

> > >>> I seriously doubt we could have gotten results and we would have had

> > to

> > >>>

> > >> just

> > >>

> > >>> reschedule. was a very active baby and still is an active boy.

> He

> > >>>

> > >> can

> > >>

> > >>> literally bounce off walls and climb walls. I know nobody would

> > believe

> > >>> that, but if you have a kid like that you may know what I mean.

> > >>> When my youngest son still had no speech or sounds at 1.5 years old

> he

> > >>>

> > >> had

> > >>

> > >>> an ABR just to rule out any hearing loss even though he passed his

> > >>>

> > >> newborn

> > >>

> > >>> screen. We tried him in the booth but he freaked out even going in

> the

> > >>>

> > >> room

> > >>

> > >>> and wouldn't calm down. Depending on age or weight is whether they

> > give

> > >>>

> > >> the

> > >>

> > >>> oral sedation or whether they have to give a drug intravenously.

> > >>> Unfortunately had to do the intravenous sedation and that was

> > >>>

> > >> pretty

> > >>

> > >>> traumatic for us since they had trouble keeping him still and

> getting

> > >>>

> > >> the

> > >>

> > >>> needle in. In the end he was okay. He didn't have hearing loss.

> These

> > >>>

> > >> days

> > >>

> > >>> he hears the ice cream truck a mile away! (My HOH son seems to too!)

> > >>>

> > >>> K

> > >>>

> > >>>